Ferrari and RBR leave FOTA

[Hun200kmh]

Apparently a stalemate over the RRA caused this. I know Ferrari wanted more testing allowed (they say it in their press release), I can only guess some other team(s) didn't. As to why RBR left FOTA I have no clue. I'll keep a close eye on Jonathan Noble's tweets.

FOTA was strong because it had all the main teams. It was strong enough to defeat Max Mosley, but their glorious moment was short lived, its credibility suffered a huge blow after Toyota, Renault and BMW left F1.

Now, without Ferrari and RBR ... I guess it'll be of litle importance in the decision-making process regarding all things F1.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96614

A pity ...

 

[csmeteora9]

Can hardly say I blame them, to be blunt. Especially in Red Bulls case. How tiresome must it have been to have continuously come under scrutiny? Simply for the sake that other teams fail to accept that they are doing a worse job under the same budget cap. Imagine it as a game of football at school. One side will inevitably be more skilled than the other, in which case the opposing team attempts to come up with a barrage of ridiculous reasons as to why they might be cheating. It's petty, and quite frankly, pathetic. Remember the whole flexi-wing debacle last season? 'Nuff said!

 

[Peter.]

You can't really blame FOTA for that. The wing was believed by FOTA teams to be illegal because it was flexing too much, and gave Red Bull something like a 2 second advantage at Hungaroring compared to the rest.

Also, HRT left FOTA before it was cool.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Simply for the sake that other teams fail to accept that they are doing a worse job under the same budget cap.

Really? I could have sworn the issue was that the teams saw an aerodynamic device that was clearly moving - in a sport where moving aerodynamic parts are banned.

This whole thing reads suspcisiously like "you're better at screwing us than we are at screwing you, so we're going to take out chances with Bernie Ecclestone and screw everyone by letting him have his way with them".

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Ferrari clearly used this to take away the media spotlight from Kimi. Luca was in his tower pondering how to knock off the Ferrari foe from the media meal ticket...and it came to him "I'll quit FOTA"!

[/KicksoffConspiracy]

 

[csmeteora9]

Really? I could have sworn the issue was that the teams saw an aerodynamic device that was clearly moving - in a sport where moving aerodynamic parts are banned.

You can't really blame FOTA for that. The wing was believed by FOTA teams to be illegal because it was flexing too much, and gave Red Bull something like a 2 second advantage at Hungaroring compared to the rest.

True enough, they had an assumption that it wasn't legal, so they demanded the wing be tested by the FIA. Fair enough. However, when the answer they received didn't go against Red Bull, they weren't satisfied. And of course, they pressed for it to be tested on numerous occasions throughout 2010, each time receiving the same answer by the FIA. Now I'm aware of development and how new wings are designed throughout the season to match the characteristics of the circuit. But in the end, it was nothing more than petty.

 

[Imari]

It's a sport with millions of dollars at stake. The other teams saw Red Bull with a wing that clearly had behaviour at odds with the spirit of the rules, despite the fact that it passed the tests. It's not petty, it's competitive sports. You use every opportunity to gain an advantage you can. Every time Red Bull showed up with a wing that was clearly flexing, it was grounds for the other teams to ask for it to be tested again in the hope that it might fail. Given that Red Bull have new wings pretty much every other GP, it's not a massively unreasonable request.

Frankly, Red Bull would have expected no less, and had the boot been on the other foot you can bet they would have given McLaren or Ferrari or whoever the same treatment. This is bread and butter for a sport that thrives on eeking out minor performance gains from dubious interpretations of vague rules.

 

[csmeteora9]

It's a sport with millions of dollars at stake. The other teams saw Red Bull with a wing that clearly had behaviour at odds with the spirit of the rules, despite the fact that it passed the tests. It's not petty, it's competitive sports. You use every opportunity to gain an advantage you can. Every time Red Bull showed up with a wing that was clearly flexing, it was grounds for the other teams to ask for it to be tested again in the hope that it might fail. Given that Red Bull have new wings pretty much every other GP, it's not a massively unreasonable request.

Frankly, Red Bull would have expected no less, and had the boot been on the other foot you can bet they would have given McLaren or Ferrari or whoever the same treatment. This is bread and butter for a sport that thrives on eeking out minor performance gains from dubious interpretations of vague rules.

You've raised some good points here, I can't really argue. I stand corrected.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

However, when the answer they received didn't go against Red Bull, they weren't satisfied.

The Red Bull wing still visibly flexed. The teams had every right to be dissatisfied - all the FIA did was increase load tests from 50 to 100kg. The cars experience hundreds of kilograms of downforce when under a full aerodynamic load, and the wing was only flexing under higher-end load conditions.

 

[Mike Rotch]

I'm not sure why there is focus on 'the wing'. It has less to do with that and more to do with the suspicion that RBR was not adhereing to spending limits imposed by FOTA. Ferrari had enough of the lack of solution finding and exited. Not good for the sport and/ or RBR's 'look'.
Interesting read:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2011/12/red_bull_set_to_dominate.html

 

[F1 fan]

The Red Bull wing still visibly flexed. The teams had every right to be dissatisfied - all the FIA did was increase load tests from 50 to 100kg. The cars experience hundreds of kilograms of downforce when under a full aerodynamic load, and the wing was only flexing under higher-end load conditions.

The point is that in order to be deemed legal, they only have to meet the requirements set by FIA scrutineers. Whether those requirements are too lenient or not is not up for debate. The FIA is the governing body, therefore has the only say in the matter.

I was fed up listening to this in 2010. The other teams (Mclaren in particular) just kept whining about it. Maybe if they had been as clever, we wouldn't have had to listen to them. Once the shoe is on the other foot, they wouldn't have been complaining.

For example, Red Bull were alleged to have a system that changed the ride height. Mclaren developed their own "ride height" system (which Red Bull did not have on the RB6) which was disallowed. Whitmarsh can be seen moaning about this on the 2010 season review dvd.

It's the equivalent of players taking dives in football to try and influence the referee.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Sauber have left FOTA aswell.

 

[The Outlaw]

The point is that in order to be deemed legal, they only have to meet the requirements set by FIA scrutineers. Whether those requirements are too lenient or not is not up for debate. The FIA is the governing body, therefore has the only say in the matter. .

From my perspective the subject clearly was up for debate though, especially since the load test became more stringent after all of the moaning & bickering we heard, particularly from Whitmarsh. Yes, the FIA might be the governing body, but this doesn't mean the teams don't have any involvement in helping to write the rules & regulations in the end.

I found the whole thing rather amusing though...as it's just the usual comedy/drama we see in F1, with one team playing goody goody two shoes to try and get their way

 

[Sach]

Hmm...

 

[Peter.]

Sauber have left FOTA aswell.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96685

You accidentally saved it as an image, instead of as a link. There you go 👍

The article also says that Torro Rosso may be on their way out, as well, which is unsurprising considering that the mother team has abandoned ship as well. But what I fear we are seeing, is a total meltdown of the FOTA, which will have some negative effects in the future. I can't predict the future, but F1 Politics just got even sillier.

 

[Imari]

I'll confess to not ever having paid that much attention to the political side of F1, but even a quick read of Wikipedia couldn't enlighten me on what FOTA actually does. I understand that it came into being as a sort of union action to defeat certain ideas being imposed on F1, but in terms of right now it seems like a bit of a pointless body.

I know that's probably wrong, so could someone kind take the time to give me a quick summary of what FOTA is supposed to achieve?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

FOTA is sort of like a union. Basically, it gives the teams more say by presenting them as a unified front rather than as individuals. If the FIA were to approach the teams with a proposal, then they would have more ability to see that proposal introduced or shot down if they all agree on a particular stance.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Thought I would bump this because FOTA is no more - it has been officially disbanded.

 

[GTPorsche]

Disbanded?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Yeah, they are no more.

It's no great loss. FOTA only ever looked after the big teams, who abandoned it the moment it suited them.

 

[A2K78]

I think organizations like the MSMA(MotoGP/WSBK) and FOTA need to be done away with because they're becoming too much like the MLBPA and NBAPA..organizations that care more about power and amassing it rather than the interest of the sport.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The idea behind FOTA was a good one. The problem was in the execution - FOTA looked out for the big teams, but the smaller ones were a secondary priority. Sometimes their interests lined up, but other times, it was the big teams that got the most out of it. It's why HRT left.

Remember the breakaway threat in 2009? Just before the British Grand Prix, Max Mosley wrote to the teams and said he was willing to negotiate. The teams replied that they were willing to hear him out, but the next thing we knew, they were announcing a breakaway series. There had been a FOTA meeting that evening, with all the teams meeting at Renault HQ in Enstone, which was a bizarre choice of venue, because both Force India and Red Bull (who at the time were not a major player, but fast becoming one) had facilities closer by. As a manufacturer, Renault were a major power in the sport, and FOTA did a backflip in the space of twelve hours. It has never been revealed what happened during that meeting, but it's pretty obvious that FOTA was looking after the big teams instead of everyone.