Ferrari V10 in Viper

[dancardesigner]

What is coming of this industry?
http://www.worldcarfans.com/109081221016/next-generation-dodge-viper-rumoured-to-receive-ferrari-v10

New rumours have emerged suggesting that the next generation Dodge Viper may receive a Ferrari-designed V10 engine.

While details are limited, the report indicates that Fiat's CEO, Sergio Marchionne, wants to take advantage of the fact that the Viper is Chrysler's "halo" vehicle. The benefits seem pretty obvious, the engine sharing would reduce development costs (by spreading its use over multiple brands) and the engine pedigree might boost Viper sales.

Like the current generation of Ferrari engines, the next generation of engines will be offered in a variety of different configurations and displacements. If everything goes according to plan, Ferrari and Maserati would get new V8s while the Viper would receive a new pushrod V10.

Despite sounding like a dream come true, we're still a tad skeptical. Only a few months ago Chrysler was attempting to sell the Viper, only to eventually keep it after a lack of serious offers.

Seriously, the viper will be nothing without a big bellowing big block, take out the muscle out of an American muscle car and you've taken out the soul.

 

[Tornado]

Forgetting entirely that the engine in the Viper was originally Lamborghini designed...

 

[dancardesigner]

Forgetting entirely that the engine in the Viper was originally Lamborghini designed...

Yes very true, but somehow i can see Ferrari being a lot more ''influential'', when it comes to what a V10 should be than Lambo. Ferrari are very stubborn, and prestige themselves on there high revving itallion stallions. Somehow i can't see them producing a big bellowing V10, akin to other American V8 designs. Ferrari engines are very complex and are all about BHP per litre as opposed to the much simpler but more brutal cumbersome engines normally assosciated with muscle cars. I just get the feeling this new Viper is gonna scream instead of growl, not to mention what Ferrari's camshaft designs will have on the torque/bhp ratio.

 

[Philly]

What's wrong with the current engine?

 

[dancardesigner]

What's wrong with the current engine?

It's all to do with this 'green', fascination at the moment i guess.

 

[Tornado]

Than the Greenies are being stupid once again: The Viper gets way better mileage then the entire Ferrari range.
It also has an engine whose development was largely paid off in 1964, so its not as if building a new engine just to shut up the idiotic branches of enviromentalists will be financially sound, either.

 

[McLaren]

Yes very true, but somehow i can see Ferrari being a lot more ''influential'', when it comes to what a V10 should be than Lambo. Ferrari are very stubborn, and prestige themselves on there high revving itallion stallions. Somehow i can't see them producing a big bellowing V10, akin to other American V8 designs. Ferrari engines are very complex and are all about BHP per litre as opposed to the much simpler but more brutal cumbersome engines normally assosciated with muscle cars. I just get the feeling this new Viper is gonna scream instead of growl, not to mention what Ferrari's camshaft designs will have on the torque/bhp ratio.

So a company with no experience with V10s what-so-ever should be a better pick for the engine than a company that has had such experience since the 90's, just because it might be more suited?

 

[dancardesigner]

So a company with no experience with V10s what-so-ever should be a better pick for the engine than a company that has had such experience since the 90's, just because it might be more suited?

I just feel Ferrari will be a lot harder to work alongside than lamborghini, i can't help but think they will try and turn the Viper into a high reving, low torque supercar, for the benefit of themselves having a new cross platform engine. The Viper is a muscle car, it's ingredients should not be changed.

 

[Philly]

It's all to do with this 'green', fascination at the moment i guess.

But... It's a Dodge Viper. The last thing that car is worried about is the environment. And a car with such a low sales volume doesn't have to be concerned with pleasing the Prius drivers anyway.

I just feel Ferrari will be a lot harder to work alongside than lamborghini, i can't help but think they will try and turn the Viper into a high reving, low torque supercar, for the benefit of themselves having a new cross platform engine. The Viper is a muscle car, it's ingredients should not be changed.

I doubt they'll change it in that way. Ferrari wouldn't want to create in-house "competition" with the 599 I think.

 

[McLaren]

I just feel Ferrari will be a lot harder to work alongside than lamborghini, i can't help but think they will try and turn the Viper into a high reving, low torque supercar, for the benefit of themselves having a new cross platform engine. The Viper is a muscle car, it's ingredients should not be changed.

Why would Ferrari be harder to work with though, when they have no experience with a V10? All they build are high-pitched V8s & V12s. A V10 is pretty much a "foreign" concept to them.

Besides, I'm pretty sure Ferrari wouldn't let the Viper sound anything like their cars. That's all part of Ferrari's charm to begin with.

 

[Jay]

They have experience with V10 from F1, not a road car engine but still V10 experience, but I do find it a little hard to believe a Ferrari made V10 in a upcoming Viper.

 

[dancardesigner]

Why would Ferrari be harder to work with though, when they have no experience with a V10? All they build are high-pitched V8s & V12s. A V10 is pretty much a "foreign" concept to them.

Besides, I'm pretty sure Ferrari wouldn't let the Viper sound anything like their cars. That's all part of Ferrari's charm to begin with.

Well they have some experience with V10 engines in F1 but thats probably irrelevant. But i feel Ferrari are a very stubborn and stuck up company and will try and take the Viper in the direction of there own cars. Maybe im wrong, but i can't see Ferrari putting their name on something that follows a completly different phillosophy to their own cars.

Having said all this though, Ferrari engines can sound bellowy and growl, i mean the Alfa 8C sounds wonderful, but thats got a different cam and exhaust system to the engine in the F430..

 

[McLaren]

Well they have some experience with V10 engines in F1 but thats probably irrelevant. But i feel Ferrari are a very stubborn and stuck up company and will try and take the Viper in the direction of there own cars. Maybe im wrong, but i can't see Ferrari putting their name on something that follows a completly different phillosophy to their own cars.

Ferrari doesn't let anybody get anywhere near close to their cars when building them.

Look at Maserati if you want a prime example. They lend their engines to Maserati & yet, detune them to the point where they aren't anything like them. Ferrari even made sure the MC12 couldn't have more power than the Enzo.

And that's considering the fact that Maserati are the closest folks to Ferrari. I can't imagine what kind of potential Ferrari would keep the Viper from getting if they developed a V10 from it.
If anything, I would expect Ferrari to build a mediocre engine for the Viper just to satisfy Chrysler (or whomever) & use it as another source of income instead of taking it serious.

 

[dancardesigner]

Ferrari doesn't let anybody get anywhere near close to their cars when building them.

Look at Maserati if you want a prime example. They lend their engines to Maserati & yet, detune them to the point where they aren't anything like them. Ferrari even made sure the MC12 couldn't have more power than the Enzo.

And that's considering the fact that Maserati are the closest folks to Ferrari. I can't imagine what kind of potential Ferrari would keep the Viper from getting if they developed a V10 from it.
If anything, I would expect Ferrari to build a mediocre engine for the Viper just to satisfy Chrysler (or whomever) & use it as another source of income instead of taking it serious.

Well i hope your right. They need to keep the engine simple in the Viper, just like other American muscles, that irregular clatter, rustic bellowing, ass bruising vibration of a big cumbersome big block is what i think gives these cars there character, not to mention tuning potential for all the modders out there. Putting in a highly strung Ferrari engine would kill its appeal.

 

[Jay]

I remember Ferrari had issues with Lancia using the Dinos V6, I read just yesterday Lancia told Ferrari they will just use a Maserati V8 (4.7) then. That was many years ago in a different period but I can't imagine the Ferrari giving Dodge any special engines.

 

[Eric.]

Forgetting entirely that the engine in the Viper was originally Lamborghini designed...

Before or after being the truck motor?

 

[Northstar]

I remember Ferrari had issues with Lancia using the Dinos V6, I read just yesterday Lancia told Ferrari they will just use a Maserati V8 (4.7) then. That was many years ago in a different period but I can't imagine the Ferrari giving Dodge any special engines.

Well considering how they are now both under the same ownership group I don't think there will be as much of a problem.

 

[niky]

The shared Ferrari Maserati engines aren't necessarily detuned by Ferrari for Maserati... they are retuned by Maserati for their own internal purposes, using their own camshafts, engine tuning, manifolds and other parts.
A Ferrari F430 is a raw, savage, thing... the engine is designed to rev high and rev hard. The Maserati Gran Turismo, on the other hand, which shares the same basic V8, is tuned more for Grand Touring... using lower revs and more displacement to achieve similar power and more torque at less stratospheric engine speeds. Those lower engine speeds are good for engine longevity, too.

Although Ferrari would be an excellent partner for a sports car concern, the Dodge Viper's own unique character stems much from its engine, and I don't see them dropping the venerable unit for a Ferrari one.

 

[Jay]

Well considering how they are now both under the same ownership group I don't think there will be as much of a problem.

Thats why I said in a different period, even now Ferrari is still a different division (under fiat ownership) and they're still stubbon.

 

[Exorcet]

Forgetting entirely that the engine in the Viper was originally Lamborghini designed...

Chrysler designed for the most part, Lamborghini redid the block in aluminum. They wanted to ditch the truck based design all together, but Chrysler said no. And Lambo had nothing to do with the 500 hp V-10 of the SRT-10.

As long as the new engine isn't "Ferrari like" I don't mind. The chassis is the much more important part of the Viper anyway. I want a true track based machine that's at home in the corners.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

If everything goes according to plan, Ferrari and Maserati would get new V8s while the Viper would receive a new pushrod V10.

So it'll still be as much of a Viper as ever.

 

[YSSMAN]

Honestly, its not that huge of a deal. The Dino series spawned various V8, V10 and V12 engines, and I see no reason why this new generation of Ferrari engines wouldn't be able to do the same for their new, adopted, American family members. My guess is that Team Viper will be sure to get what they want out of the deal, which will still be a big, torquey V10 that the Viper deserves. Nothing will change that.

 

[JCE]

A V10 from Ferrari you say? Good, maybe now it will make a proper good noise. The Viper's current V10 makes a craptastic noise anyway. I approve. Now if Ferrari can help a bit with the suspension tuning while not putting any electronannies I'd be happy.

 

[Jim Prower]

I'm not dissappointed, either, though they did say something about "pushrods..." Forgive me if I'm wrong: When was the last time Ferrari did Pushrods?

Never?

I'm betting Twincam F1 style design, It'll sound like an M5 or R8. I would hope for a fair bit of displacement, though, at least 5.6 liters, or more.

Hell, I'm just glad they'll still build the thing.

 

[SuperShouden]

Very interesting. I am actually excited to see what the result if of what is essentially a joint design between Lamborghini, Dodge and Ferrari. It will be interesting to see what Ferrari's influence will result in. Should be pretty awesome.

 

[Adamgp]

I doubt the Ferrari engine. I read not too long ago the pushrod 8.4L will be back, with direct injection and making ~700hp.

More like Chrysler will 'consult' Ferrari, much like they did with Lambo in the '80s and '90s. (When Chrysler owned Lambo)

 

[Jim Prower]

It's an old thread, but if we have new info, it should have been updated.

 

[JCE]

A V10 from Ferrari you say? Good, maybe now it will make a proper good noise.

I detract my statement after seeing the TopGear US' first episode and hearing that ACR Viper. Definitely makes a good noise. I must of heard people putting craptastic exhausts on their SRT10's around here because they sound like crap.

 

[Jay]

I detract my statement after seeing the TopGear US' first episode and hearing that ACR Viper. Definitely makes a good noise. I must of heard people putting craptastic exhausts on their SRT10's around here because they sound like crap.

Ferrari probably wouldn't use the 90 degree V angle (odd fire) like the Viper V10, they would most likley use 72 degrees (even fire) or very close with much more revs and it will sound much different to the Vipers note.

 

[SuperShouden]

It'll be interesting to see the specs of the 2012 Viper. I mean...it started out with an Italian V10 designed and built by Lamborghini. The SRT10 used an American V10 that was based off the original Italian V10...but it was a smidge bigger. Now, The Viper might just get another Italian V10 from Ferrari. If anything, Ferrari will probably be evolved in the design of the engine.

But as for design. I'm picturing the love child of the Viper, Alfa Romeo 8C and Ferrari 458 Italia.