FFs cars. Naturally handicapped against FRs?

[Leonidae]

using DFP or G25 helps too. that way you can avoid too large steering angles and modulate your throttle input to avoid wheelspin.

 

[mafia_boy]

I see, ok, that makes more sence.

There are a handful of FF cars that do handle quite well that I think you should try.

'95 Mitsubishi Eclipse. Less than 10,000 and quite nice for a FF car.
'97 Mitsubishi FTO
The New VW GTI
Any of the MINI's.

To name a few.

You left out a 60000km spec '95 Integra Type R. Quickest handling FF car in GT4 under 8k. And getting the 60000km '97 Toyota Starlet Turbo (Glanza) for just over 5k is a good choice too, very quick for it's low hp rating, an oil change, chip and intercooler give it a good boost.

 

[PARAGON GT]

True, I just wanted to name a few.

 

[Tornado]

I'd personally say that the best one is the Celica, because it has power oversteer for some reason if you cane it enough in the turns. The old Civic is a lot of fun (though less useful due to power deficits compared to most FFs in the game) due to the huge amount of lift throttle it has.

 

[Jonn 79]

Wow i haven't read of Integras getting slammed this hard in ages.

Considering i own a DC2 and have driven it for the better part of half a year now i really have no complaints at all. Technical corners and long corners are easy to drive at the limit.

By the way i am using Advan Neovas 195/55/15 tires on my DC2, not R compound tires that were referred to. Which by the way are actually S compound Japan spec tires - Bridgestone Adrenaline Re001R tires (The ones on the new FD2 Type R).

Integras aren't just "great handling" cars because of their tires. It's more due to the fact that their suspension setups are miles ahead of the competition.

In a DC2R they used pillow ball suspension coupled with a double wishbone setup - much superior to any other FF car using macpherson strut at the time i.e. FTO, Mirage ZR, Pulsar VZ-R (Non N1 spec because were not mass produced like the Type R) and the Levin BZR.

Since then, Honda has revolutionized the use of macpherson struts in FF cars like the DC5R, EP3R and FD2R. With a stiff chasis and high HP output, low torque engine (To match the levels of grip needed to drive a FF car fast in real life) is enough to chase down most FR cars or AWD cars - as was pointed out in earlier posts.

Oh, did i mention Honda led the revolution of high horsepower small displacement engines in the naturally aspirated segment.

So while my car maybe just a Hond'uh (And this may sound like sour grapes from a butt hurt Honda driver), may i ask you (niky) what's so special about your Ford RS mule with its 2L 150HP engine? Given that we have them here in Malaysia as well as in the Philippines.

 

[niky]

The best driving non-racing FF in the game (racing meaning the Trial Celica and other bespoke tuner/racers) is the showroom-bought Honda Integra Type-R (the Acura version is heavier and less precise). There's not any useful lift-off oversteer, but it's very precise and placeable.

I don't really like the 95' Eclipse. A little wooly and understeery for my tastes.

The most dynamic would be the Ford Focus RS. On N or S tires, stock, it's a handful, but easy to gracefully pitch sideways through a turn.

Like Leonidae says, using a steering wheel will help a lot. Part of the reason that you understeer so much with FWD cars in GT4 is that you tend to mash the controller (even if you're using the analog stick) full left or full right into a turn. In GT4, with FWDs, this causes epic understeer. In real-life, actually, even if you've got a decent RWD car, say, a BMW 3-series, it'll also give you epic understeer.

Small, metered inputs are best. If you can't get a wheel, learn to drive properly and smoothly with a stick and FWD will hold no horrors for you... just frustration as you hit the limits of the GT4 handling envelope.

So while my car maybe just a Hond'uh (And this may sound like sour grapes from a butt hurt Honda driver), may i ask you (niky) what's so special about your Ford RS mule with its 2L 150HP engine? Given that we have them here in Malaysia as well as in the Philippines.

My bad... missing sarcasm tags added...

[sarcasm]
Add to the really uncool cars of the world... the Mini (as has been said), the Honda Integra (really, it's a piece of poop... FWD, Civic engines and no turbos? Sad... ...who cares if people rank it as one of the best handling cars of all time? It's a Honda!), The Renault Clio Williams, the Peugeot 106 Rallye... dear Lordy, such terrible, terrible cars!
[/sarcasm]

sorry for the misunderstanding... I wasn't being serious there. I'm a genuine fan of Honda cars... and I'm actually looking for a secondhand Fit/Jazz as a second car.

Too bad we're separated by a big body of water... I'd love to come over and compare notes... the Ford Lynx RS is a neat little car... better, IMHO, than the common EP or FD chassis (though not having an Si or Type-R FD here, can't compare it to the "sporting" Civics...). It has more feelsome steering, the same "tip-toey" balance that Integras seem to have and great chassis adjustability. The only problem I see is mid-corner understeer, which is likely due to local spec sway-bars (I've been meaning to upgrade my rear-sway bar for ages).

Shame you guys only get the automatics. Such a waste of a good chassis... though even with a manual, the engine is pure crap compared to even the base R18 or non-Type R K20.

The tire comment regarding the Mugen RR is a note that the Mugen RR's tires are still a fair bit stickier than comes on some of the older RWDs that the RR beats around that track. (tire advancement makes it hard to compare lap-times a year or more apart). Like I said, though, yes, I agree it is a great performance, and I've seen the videos of that car beating an S2000 with both cars being on the exact same size of Advan Neova, so I'm aware that it is a truly epic front-driver.

 

[Duke]

Just to balance the tyrewear! Although it still wore out the S1 fronts before the S3 rears!!!

Fitting softer, grippier tyres at the rear is less likely to give more oversteer as it means the back end is less likely to break grip.

Which is why, going back to the GT3 Vitz series, I never run a softer compound at the rear on a FWD car. I don't care about balanced tire wear if it makes for more understeer... which makes for more front tire wear. I'd rather pit on green rears than run a softer compound just so they're all the same temperature when I pull in.

 

[Tornado]

I don't really like the 95' Eclipse. A little wooly and understeery for my tastes.

Of, just come out and say it:

Small, metered inputs are best. If you can't get a wheel, learn to drive properly and smoothly with a stick and FWD will hold no horrors for you... just frustration as you hit the limits of the GT4 handling envelope.

D-Pad FTW!

 

[Jonn 79]

For shame, i'm a copywriter and i missed the intended sarcasm :S. My bad.

Not sure what the Mugen RR wears for shoes but i thought it was the same as the RE001R.

 

[niky]

I think it's the RE070... are those Ultra-High-Po like the Neovas? I've been looking for data on the new RE range, but I can't really find that much online. I'm looking at changing my Neovas for something in the next six months, or even having a spare set of tires on my second set of rims. So far, what I've gotten is that Federal 595RS's are pretty good, R-comps, I think, for the same price as the Neova, while the RT-615s are actually faster for less money (though not as heat-resistant).

No worries, though... this board has a mandatory sarcasm tag rule, poorly enforced...

Of, just come out and say it:

I guess I don't have to, anymore...

 

[Jonn 79]

i coulda swore the best offering from Bridgestone were the 001R. Oh well.

Yeah looking to get rid of my Neovas as well. They are pathetic in the wet.

Some dude quoted me Malaysia Ringgit 520 for 2 Bridgestone 001R tires. Really tempted to get them but i am thinking long term and getting the DC5R brembo 4 pot brake system installed in my car (Requires 17 inch rims).

Sigh so little money.

 

[Rzeractor]

Where did you read or discover this, Balang?

I ask because it contradicts everything I thought I knew about motorsports. There is a reason why FF is not used as a viable drivetrain in racing above the level of low-end 'touring' cars.

Well what you have to remember is that a FWD with the same flywheel figure as an equivalent RWD car will be able to send more power to the ground due to less drivetrain losses. That said, the FF has a chance to be quicker, obviously disregarding some factors...

 

[niky]

i coulda swore the best offering from Bridgestone were the 001R. Oh well.

Yeah looking to get rid of my Neovas as well. They are pathetic in the wet.

Some dude quoted me Malaysia Ringgit 520 for 2 Bridgestone 001R tires. Really tempted to get them but i am thinking long term and getting the DC5R brembo 4 pot brake system installed in my car (Requires 17 inch rims).

Sigh so little money.

Hey, you're the lucky guy who's got a Honda... with the attendant aftermarket support... ...for the Lynx, we basically had to custom-fab everything, and it still wasn't making power. Ended up buying cams and gears from the US, and now it's making decent power, but still not as much as you could make with a B18 or a K20... still looking for a way to custom-fab in an Evo brake kit into the car, but it's just a ridiculous amount of money for ANY Evo kit. And we're ridiculously off-topic (of course, I always am)... but if you ever find out which tire is the higher mark, that's on-topic... somewhat...

I dread going up rim sizes... but I might have to go that way, too. Since we can't get 11-inch brake discs for the Lynx, we might have to go bigger, and that will require 17-inch rims, as well.

 

[Jonn 79]

Bolt on turbo

 

[niky]

Wahahaha... no thanks. These cars already eat clutches as it is... I've seen one completely roast a "Stage 2" aftermarket clutch with just 200 whp. Besides, the stock internals are only good for 250-300 whp. I'll stick with my nice, safe, 150 whp, thank you.