FIA Extreme Tyre Wear.

[HERE4BEER3]

I just wanted to get this written down for my own benefit.

FYI this is my own ideal system, not the current one.

Matchmaking begins @ the start of the hour.

3 mins for matchmaking.
3 min warmup(enough to get 1-2 laps in just about anywhere)
30 sec between end of warmup and start of qualy for well wishes
12.5 min qualy(10 mins + the extra 2:30 to finish your current lap)
2 mins post qualy
4 min for intro and to go through the grid(could be a minute less)

Gives us 25 minutes from the start of the hour to the green light. So the absolute max a race can be would be 30 minutes for the slowest drivers. That will give 5 minutes from race end to go through the credits, congratulate or scold and leave to enter the next race.

Now the tricky part. I figured PD wants to let the slowest drivers be able to finish a race then compete in the next hours slot. So they would set the race time to accommodate the slowest lobbies.

So just how slow are the slowest lobby winners compared to top split? I can't imagine any race winner would be more than 15 seconds off the pace of the top split. I'n in the 2nd Dr:B split and our winner is normaly 2-3 seconds off top split pace(the slowest guys in the top split, not the winner) , so 15 might be a stretch. I can't imagine there would be anymore than 5 minutes difference in total race time in most races between top and bottom lobbies, but I've been surprised before and I could be way off on that. And no matter how slow everyone else is once the winner crosses the line everyone gets 1:30 to cross before the race is over.

That also brings the dilemma of whether the FIA events should be catering to the absolute slowest drivers or more to the top drivers? So should the total length of the race be based more towards the mid-level pace so the slowest drivers might run the race so long they end up missing the next time slot? Honestly I think this is a no brainer, cater closer to the best, for these races anyways.


Either way they can definitely add at least 4 laps to every race with a little lower tire wear to get us closer to the 30 min mark. I think most track are probably between 1:30 and 2 minute laps. Currently the races are between 15-20 minutes based on what I think are pretty slow laps times. Without crunching the numbers on every race in nations and manufacturer I'm just quickly estimating based off the Kyoto race and Mount Panorama in the OP. So again maybe I'm out to lunch and some races are roughly 30 mins. So correct me if I'm wrong and feel free to discuss.


Edit: I quickly checked manu races on my lunch break. This season most races are 9 or 11 laps, roughly 20 minutes races for slower lobbies. So Kyoto is particularly bad. the rest might be better, but still there is time to add more laps with only 20 minute races.

 

[Aloha62_2]

Qualifying does feel a bit silly at times, I don't know why they don't use the times from TT and just scrap qualifying. Has anyone asked PD the reason for the high tyre wear?

Or start it on 1/3rd fuel to save the silly burn laps thing.

 

[MPincombe]

The races are getting shorter and the tyre wear is getting worse. There was a race around Tokyo South the season before last (maybe) that took 27 minutes to do a race, and it was one of the most fun races I did. With the exception of the Nurburgring 24H race, the next manufacturers series has all races with odd number of laps, now this is the first time I've seen it where they've all been odd, they obviously want you to do either 2 stints that are uneven or they're trying to make us 2 stop theses races, this first race isn't a 2 stopper but I have a feeling a few of the races coming up will be. They obviously want everyone to do Nations and Manufacturers but not everybody does, that's why I think the races are too short

 

[HERE4BEER3]

The Kyoto race was about 16 minutes for me from green light to the finish line........ coulda used a few more laps.

And the intro and going through the grid is only about 2:30 minutes, not 4, so we can fit another lap in lol.

I managed to save my tires pretty good, the guy in P2 behind me was on hards first stint and his tires were only a sliver better than mine. But the guys down the field on mediums had absolutely shredded their front rights. When I pit end of lap 4 I was about half red on all tires, looking at the replay after, most other guys on mediums had NOTHING left on the front right. MADNESS!

 

[cheeseball]

I would prefer to save time by x1 fuel and tires for qually, no pit allowed just an out lap and 2 flying, and use the time saved to increase length of race to about 35min. This would allow reduced tire wear multipliers and still requiring a 1 or 2 stop depending on compound.

 

[HERE4BEER3]

I would prefer to save time by x1 fuel and tires for qually, no pit allowed just an out lap and 2 flying, and use the time saved to increase length of race to about 35min. This would allow reduced tire wear multipliers and still requiring a 1 or 2 stop depending on compound.

I like it.

I know on @Tidgney s streams he likes the idea of having normal tire wear at like x5 or x7 but start qualy and race at 1/2 a tank of fuel. PD can do it easily too since we have the setting to set starting fuel in custom lobbies.

1/2 tank of fuel would eliminate the stupid fuel burning and force the pit stop mid race. And yea qualy can definitely be shorter if they ever do anything about this, with 1/2 of fuel a 5-6 minute qualy + the 2.5 mins to finish the last lap would be fine if we didn't have to fuel burn. Then we can squeeze a few more laps in.

Only problem I see with the 1/2 tank fuel system is the races will end up being all about fuel saving. personally I've never been a fan of the fuel saving type races, I find them more annoying than the tire wear. Also, I'm not sure how consistent fuel consumption is with all the cars, some cars might become unusable, but I supposed PD can fix that, but that would require them to work soooo. Lastly, this would be utter chaos in the lower lobbies, anytime I've tried to do a slow fuel saving no stop in B/S lobbies I end up falling down the grid and get punted left and right because either nobody knows how or nobody cares to overtake properly. So the lower lobbies will end up being a fight to the death between the guys trying to conserve fuel and the guys going flat out.

 

[Tidgney]

Here's the thing with the tyre wear being so extreme now.. is that you can't really race as if you even attempt to go slightly aggressive you burn to much of your tyres and game over. The FIA races have become a simulator of survival rather than simulator of racing and it's simply disappointing. In fact it's so disappointing that if it hasn't changed by the end of the year I will stop running FIA events. They aren't fun anymore, they are now so much of a time sink with every slot counting that if you turn up to 2nd/3rd attempters you're already on the back foot.

In terms of tyre wear being reduced I still feel like dropping the tyre wear wear and starting fuel at 40-50% will solve a lot of problems (You still get strategy with this). There will be a little fuel saving, but you will still be able to race and the over and undercut will be available to people. We might be able to race again... or instead just look at which car is so OP on tyres they can stay at the front, while the rest try and survive... You could also increase the race duration and make it an 30/40 minutes? It literally would stop right before the next slot, if players really want to jump to the next championship fine, but others could then go practice in a lobby or eat or drink, have a small break and come back. This would allow even lower tyre wear multipliers and even more chance of good fun racing!

My perfect world is back to the early days of no fuel or tyre wear and max attack racing 9+ laps, always felt on the limit and was soooo much fun, but I realise some people do want strategy in there so can accept a little tyre wear, just not over 9000...

 

[HERE4BEER3]

You could also increase the race duration and make it an 30/40 minutes? It literally would stop right before the next slot, if players really want to jump to the next championship fine, but others could then go practice in a lobby or eat or drink, have a small break and come back.

Yea my earlier posts in this thread are all about longer races, personally that would be my ideal way to deal with this. But at this point anything will do. It's becoming too much of a chore.

It feels like all the top players feel the same so hopefully at teh next live event PD just gets bombarded with everyone complaining about this and maybe they do something about it. I just hope the people who go to the live events have the courage to stand up to PD a little, I know it's not easy to **** on somebody who just flew you halfway across the world.

 

[El_Beardo]

I just hope the people who go to the live events have the courage to stand up to PD a little, I know it's not easy to **** on somebody who just flew you halfway across the world.

It's more constructive feedback, than it is ******** on their work.

 

[HERE4BEER3]

It's more constructive feedback, than it is ******** on their work.

LOL, NO! I want them flipping tables and swearing at Kaz, haha. JK. You're right though, I'm one of those people that has a hard time giving constructive criticism because I feel the recipient would take it the wrong way, so that's what I meant.

 

[Benay79]

This next Manu race at Fuji is even worse than the last! Just done a long practice in a lobby and feel really fed up now. No fun at all. One quick lap and that’s all you get on those tyres. Need to put every 3 laps. Where’s the fun in that???

 

[LeGeNd-1]

With the current level of tyre wear, you are literally allowed one corner where you can push, before the tyres are gone for the rest of the stint. Or if you get nuked from behind, that's your race game over. Quali outlap you pretty much have to treat your tyres like glass. Strategy and having a tyre friendly car pretty much gives you 80% of the win. It's ridiculous. I think PD is trying to up the "drama" because it creates more mistakes and makes for a more exciting race for casual viewers, but in terms of actual racing enjoyment itself it's pretty poor and completely ruins the realism. What a mess.

This next Manu race at Fuji is even worse than the last! Just done a long practice in a lobby and feel really fed up now. No fun at all. One quick lap and that’s all you get on those tyres. Need to put every 3 laps. Where’s the fun in that???

Tell me about it. I'm in the Ferrari which is probably one of the worst tyre eater in Gr.3. I can't even touch the soft tyre at all. It's just not raceable for more than 2 semi-pushing laps. Ended up staggering tyres for quali and the first stint and RM for the rest. It's like fighting with both hands tied.

 

[Pfei]

Tell me about it. I'm in the Ferrari which is probably one of the worst tyre eater in Gr.3. I can't even touch the soft tyre at all. It's just not raceable for more than 2 semi-pushing laps. Ended up staggering tyres for quali and the first stint and RM for the rest. It's like fighting with both hands tied.

I was thinking the same when choosing Ferrari. In fact, my buddies in our WhatsApp group where we have our own internal championships based on the FIA results, they thought I was nuts. But here's the funny (or weird) thing:

I don't feel that the Gr. 3 Ferrari is a tire-eater. I did the 2018 FIA Manu as a Subaru driver. I have done a full Exhibition season with Hyundai and another with Subaru. Now, in spite of the Ferrari's "diva" characteristics I have found it much better on wear than Subaru or Hyundai. Yes, the car is a handful with worn tires but I still feel it is fast over an entire stint. Of course that requires some major braking and throttle management.

I have qualified well and finished well in the two races so far when, in reality, I was expecting a Gr. 3 Ferrari disaster. Top 5 qualy in both races (A/S rooms and using the softest compound for qualy) and solid race pace. Tonight I started with softs and pitted at the end of lap five for mediums. The car is a real damn handful on worn tires, but I was never as competitive on worn tires in the Scooby or the Hyundai.

I'm still trying to figure out its secrets, but I think the Gr. 3 Ferrari requires a massive driving style re-think. It's handling is unique and I think we need to adjust to that. At least for me personally, this is the first FIA season where I haven't been passed up like a dirty shirt on worn tires. It's been a pleasant surprise to me for now. It's a handful, and it requires finesse that other cars don't. I struggled with Subaru and Hyundai. I feel like I am flourishing with Ferrari. Maybe it's just how I drive, who knows, but one thing is certain: driving the Gr. 3 Ferrari is not to be taken lightly.

BTW, just for the record, I hate these tire wear multipliers, too.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

I was thinking the same when choosing Ferrari. In fact, my buddies in our WhatsApp group where we have our own internal championships based on the FIA results, they thought I was nuts. But here's the funny (or weird) thing:

I don't feel that the Gr. 3 Ferrari is a tire-eater. I did the 2018 FIA Manu as a Subaru driver. I have done a full Exhibition season with Hyundai and another with Subaru. Now, in spite of the Ferrari's "diva" characteristics I have found it much better on wear than Subaru or Hyundai. Yes, the car is a handful with worn tires but I still feel it is fast over an entire stint. Of course that requires some major braking and throttle management.

I have qualified well and finished well in the two races so far when, in reality, I was expecting a Gr. 3 Ferrari disaster. Top 5 qualy in both races (A/S rooms and using the softest compound for qualy) and solid race pace. Tonight I started with softs and pitted at the end of lap five for mediums. The car is a real damn handful on worn tires, but I was never as competitive on worn tires in the Scooby or the Hyundai.

I'm still trying to figure out its secrets, but I think the Gr. 3 Ferrari requires a massive driving style re-think. It's handling is unique and I think we need to adjust to that. At least for me personally, this is the first FIA season where I haven't been passed up like a dirty shirt on worn tires. It's been a pleasant surprise to me for now. It's a handful, and it requires finesse that other cars don't. I struggled with Subaru and Hyundai. I feel like I am flourishing with Ferrari. Maybe it's just how I drive, who knows, but one thing is certain: driving the Gr. 3 Ferrari is not to be taken lightly.

BTW, just for the record, I hate these tire wear multipliers, too.

Oh it's definitely a car that chooses its driver. I chose Ferrari just to go against the grain, because all my previous choices were somewhat on the conservative side. Also, the Gr.4 Ferrari has always been fast in my hands across all tracks, and I prefer Gr.4 over Gr.3 anyway so I figured things will even out even if all my Gr.3 races are a disaster

In general I think MR cars will drive better on worn tyres than FR/FF/4WD, simply because the fronts will wear less and oversteer is faster than understeer (if you can control it). But even comparing the Ferrari to other MR cars it seems to wear the rears quickly AND you still have to deal with all its handling quirks. It's also one of the worst cars when it comes to kerbs affecting stability. Last week's race at Kyoto was a total non event due to this (I know how Williams drivers feel in F1 ). But if you can adapt to all that, it's bloody fast on the straights and you can use the instability to get round tight corners on a dime. I also prefer NA cars because of the smoother power delivery, and the Ferrari is the only NA MR Gr.3. Braking wise, as long as you set BB to the front it's not all that different I find. As you said finesse and subtle inputs are key to driving this car.

Still, PD should re-evaluate the stock setups on some of these cars. Comparing the Ferrari in GTS and ACC (yes, I know it's the 488 GT3 in ACC) is like night and day. No sane racing team will send their drivers out in GTS' 458 If you're a good driver you can drive around the handling quirks, but I'd like lesser drivers to be able to enjoy a variety of cars too. As it is, some manufacturers have no chance of being Top 16 just because a lot of people are too scared to pick them. With the accelerated tyre wear, any manufacturer with FF/4WD Gr.4 is also out of the running...

 

[JonoStan96]

Yeah the tyre wear for Manufacturers is pure insanity, and for me it only magnifies the gulfs between cars in the class. It’s no longer about racing, it’s pure survival, and when rewards are on the line, it’s far more frustrating after a bad result than it should.

 

[Adam41]

It makes the races unrealistic and unenjoyable, for me anyway.

As I see it there is only one good argument for it; highlighting the importance of tyre conservation.
The list of arguments against it is long and distinguished.

- The higher the multiplier the less viable the over/undercut becomes.
- The higher the multiplier the less chance you have to compete without a wheel.
- The higher the multiplier the more impact other people's mistakes have on your race. One incident can compromise your whole stint in a big way.
- The higher the multiplier the bigger part the poor stock setups plays. Some cars become absolutely useless while others are OP - because of tyre wear in a sprint race. Yeah...
- The higher the multiplier highlights how poorly judged the BoP is when depletion is involved.
- The higher the multiplier the worse the driving experience becomes. In some cases you can't even get two laps in before the balance of the car has changed massively.
The higher the multiplier the bigger the chance that qualifying becomes an utter joke. I've seen instances where the tyres are finished after the outlap and half a hotlap.

These are just off the top of my head. I could probably go on for a while and I'm sure others will.

I agree so much with this post. I'm going to share it on Twitter. 👍

 

[breeminator]

With the accelerated tyre wear, any manufacturer with FF/4WD Gr.4 is also out of the running...

I wish I'd read this before going with Mitsubishi... Did some test laps of the Red Bull Ring yesterday to evaluate tyre wear, and as far as I can see there's just no point taking part in the race. I had thought all that mattered was how you do against other people driving the same car, but I realise now that your driver rating is going to suffer if you do badly relative to other manufacturers.

 

[SUPRASTAR0003]

I think PD are expecting all of us to do two stops, but we're normally doing one stop.

 

[Gordjy]

Just my oppinion but this pre season for manufacter seems quite talied for the Toyota tyre wear capability... Just look at rd3 in red bull ring, the gt86 can no stop ON SOFTS!!! I can no stop on my little cayman with med's and bring a good overall time, but the gt86? damn toyota gonna win this round... offcourse the pit loss time is massive on the redbull ring but still, 2 stints on softs are 10 to 15 seconds slower than no stop on meds...

 

[iFerrari]

If I was in PD I’d put every race a x1-x3 multiplier every time whatever class we race. In the end fast guys will still be fast and aliens will keep doing their thing, whatever if they are on pads, Thrustmaster or Fanatec wheels. High multipliers just make races annoying and unbalanced even more than they need to be.

 

[Sean Renon]

Second place driver in the nation's cup Car_lamb is a controller user.

And what happens when/if he gets invited to a live finals?
I think mthomas made the pad to wheel transition at the live finals alright, but I think he had wheel experience?
I'm no alien, but I notice it's much harder to control tire wear with the pad than the wheel.

Do you know if Lamb is using motion steering? Or is he using the sticks.

 

[GT5Power]

I think PD are expecting all of us to do two stops, but we're normally doing one stop.

PD do need to encourage the more aggressive strategy if they want exciting and hard racing. The problem is that pitstops aren't "viable". In most cases, the time loss is so big that you're better off saving fuel and tires and running on AI pace. This shouldn't be the case. Carrying over some of my suggestions from the FIA race thread: We don't see our cars driving in the pitlane until they reach the box, so they should be able to seamlessly make pitlanes "shorter" and maybe make the crew change tires / refuel faster to reduce the time loss. Ideally, the extra stop should be a little bit faster than the conservative strategy overall, in order to account for traffic.

 

[Windfire1010]

And what happens when/if he gets invited to a live finals?
I think mthomas made the pad to wheel transition at the live finals alright, but I think he had wheel experience?
I'm no alien, but I notice it's much harder to control tire wear with the pad than the wheel.

Do you know if Lamb is using motion steering? Or is he using the sticks.

He uses the sticks and has some of the best tire wear in the region.

 

[RZQSPEED]

Just look at rd3 in red bull ring, the gt86 can no stop ON SOFTS!!!

Ekhh, I'm in the 86 on the Pad and I need to pit on Lap 6 with my aggressive driving style. That guy must be on a wheel and really looking after the tyres. Though, no-stopping on Mediums...hehehehe, I think I got that one locked down.

Seriously, all PD needs is to look at @paoloevans's Gr.3 EuroSprint with 4X tyres and 3X fuel, but make it so the races last 30 minutes at minimum.

 

[ShiftingGears]

I don't enjoy the tip toeing required at all. It isn't fun, which is a shame because some of the FIA combinations don't involve Japanese tracks.

 

[paoloevans]

Ekhh, I'm in the 86 on the Pad and I need to pit on Lap 6 with my aggressive driving style. That guy must be on a wheel and really looking after the tyres. Though, no-stopping on Mediums...hehehehe, I think I got that one locked down.

Seriously, all PD needs is to look at @paoloevans's Gr.3 EuroSprint with 4X tyres and 3X fuel, but make it so the races last 30 minutes at minimum.

Cheers for the shout out mate!

 

[LeGeNd-1]

I wish I'd read this before going with Mitsubishi... Did some test laps of the Red Bull Ring yesterday to evaluate tyre wear, and as far as I can see there's just no point taking part in the race. I had thought all that mattered was how you do against other people driving the same car, but I realise now that your driver rating is going to suffer if you do badly relative to other manufacturers.

I feel for you. Though the Evo Gr.3 is a pretty decent car and should make up for the terrible races you have in Gr.4 Your best bet is to put harder compounds front, drive cleanly and consistently and hope for the best.

Having said that, one of the top Oceania drivers picked Subaru and he didn't do too badly last race. And there's always the hope of BOP rebalancing later on. It's a long season, so don't give up just yet 👍