FIA WEC 6 Hours of Spa

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No it was not. I was timing it at the time. (because I wanted the Toyota to win) It would get close but not catch up.

As for traffic, do you mean the year old BMW that deliberately blocked the Toyota before it's tyre blow out?
 
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He was less than a minute behind with what an hour to go in that race? It was more than possible for the Toyota to steal it. But alas it didn't, but at least they gave an incrediblie chase. Sometimes outright pace can beat efficiency. Toyota wasn't worried about efficiency at that point. Le Mans 2009 is perhaps the best example of that.
 
Practise 1's results are interesting.

1st to 4th - The 4 Audis are mixed, we can't be sure what car is the fastest (e-tron or Ultra).

5th and 6th - more than 2 seconds slower than the lead Audi, the Lola/Toyota Rebellion cars.

7th - The Dome run by Pescarolo. Clearly a good car, very close to the Rebellion ones (0,3 of a second)

8th and 9th - the HPD cars, close to each other (Strakka first) but almost 5 seconds slower than the lead Audi. This surprises me, I thought the HPD would be much faster than the Lola/Toyotas and would be up there right after the Audis.
 
I'm really interested in the e-tron vs ultra battle.

@tyres: that one, and the few stragglers Here and there that get in front everyones way. That Dome BMW was either clearly guilty of team orders or driver stupidity. Btw can you provide those times you were keeping track? I'm really interested how the race played out on the sheets.:)
 
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Toyota press conference reported on Radio Le Mans.

"Audi are 99% to win the race but we will do our level best to race in front of them for as long as we last."
 
I thought that was Dome's purpose. To outpace TOYOTA until blowing up :D If Toyota wants to do the same to Audi, we sure will have some interesting first few hours at La Sarthe :lol:
 
Ah yes the car that ran very very fast two years in a row and didn't win anything except a Token GTP-Class win? Sorry, but history only tends to remember the winners.

Then you have a completely different definition of "also-ran" to me. Fighting for victory is not being an "also-ran".
Perhaps only you remember winners, I like to remember a bit more than that. For example, a quick look at 1997 F1 results would have you believe Damon Hill in the Arrows never achieved much except a podium. But if you watch the races/qualifying sessions he did a fair bit more than that.
 
8th and 9th - the HPD cars, close to each other (Strakka first) but almost 5 seconds slower than the lead Audi. This surprises me, I thought the HPD would be much faster than the Lola/Toyotas and would be up there right after the Audis.

Me too. Maybe they're sandbagging a little?
 
Then you have a completely different definition of "also-ran" to me. Fighting for victory is not being an "also-ran".
Perhaps only you remember winners, I like to remember a bit more than that. For example, a quick look at 1997 F1 results would have you believe Damon Hill in the Arrows never achieved much except a podium. But if you watch the races/qualifying sessions he did a fair bit more than that.

Sorry, I'm not trying be rude or crap all over Toyota's motorsport past, but the fact of the matter is that they poured buckets of money into both F1 and Sportscar racing and didn't really achieve what they set out to achieve, in either discipline. I hope it's different this time around.

By comparison, Mazda with it's one-off success looks like a much more efficient and successful outfit.
 
8th and 9th - the HPD cars, close to each other (Strakka first) but almost 5 seconds slower than the lead Audi. This surprises me, I thought the HPD would be much faster than the Lola/Toyotas and would be up there right after the Audis.

You're not the only one! On Sebring the Muscle Milk guys where mixing it up for 3rd place all day long with the Rebelions and Strakka pretty far behind! JRM where still putting the car together on Sebring so they don't really count... Perhaps the wrong teams are representing Honda this year?
 
Sorry, I'm not trying be rude or crap all over Toyota's motorsport past, but the fact of the matter is that they poured buckets of money into both F1 and Sportscar racing and didn't really achieve what they set out to achieve, in either discipline. I hope it's different this time around.

By comparison, Mazda with it's one-off success looks like a much more efficient and successful outfit.

I think that only highlights what is wrong with only looking at things simplistically, black and white, victories to no victories.
Funnily enough, Mazda meet pretty much the definition of "also-ran", perhaps even in 1991.

There is more to motorsport than simply winning. Yes its the primary goal of everyone involved to win. But its not the only way we can judge who is good and who isn't. I'd actually go as far as saying race wins only highlight a further need to quantify how good the wins themselves were - to decide whether it was simply luck or outright skill and ability that achieved the wins.

If we judged Audi on simple statistics - then we'd decide they are so dominant and unbeatable that why would anyone else bother? But looking a little closer you start to notice that most of those stats have been built up in an era when they really lacked genuine and fair competition. Lets be honest, the likes of Pescarolo were never going to get anywhere near Audi the budgets were so laughably different.

Thats not to say Audi aren't successful or that they aren't a seriously formidable opponent nor am I saying their wins mean nothing - of course winning so many times does mean something. Its just its not the only measure of success and that a win can mean more or less depending on its circumstances.

To bring it back to Toyota - while in ultimate terms, no the GT-One wasn't a successful race car because it failed to do what it was designed for - win Le Mans outright. But at the same time I feel its a little extreme to also call it an "also-ran" when it did actually fight for the victory and was in contention to the very end. Coming close to victory isn't a success story but it isn't exactly a complete failure either. While I wouldn't say we should celebrate almost-victories, we can at least recognise that it was a very good attempt in a competitive era.
 
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The Honda's are either stalling or incompetent. Muscle Milk, who changes cars every year (Porsche, Aston Martin, and now Honda) managed to put what was basically a brand-new car at the front, only a lap down form the Audi's at Sebring. In essence, JRM and Strakka have basically the same car.

Part of me thinks "This Audi dominance thing is crazy. Give Honda and Rebellion an extra 100 Horsepower."
But that would be stupid. I would, however, like to see how quick Audi could be if they had just been making petrol cars all along.
 
But that would be stupid. I would, however, like to see how quick Audi could be if they had just been making petrol cars all along.

I think that history would've been a lot different if that was the case, Audi certainly have the resourses but when they switched to diesel they used the rules in their favor and in an era where the FIA/ACO are struggling to bring in long term competitors they've allowed the rules to favor Audi's technology, wich in turn have kept Audi in the sport for quite some time now. But wich is better 30 intermitent teams or 1 permanently commited to the series?
 
Jav
I think that history would've been a lot different if that was the case, Audi certainly have the resourses but when they switched to diesel they used the rules in their favor and in an era where the FIA/ACO are struggling to bring in long term competitors they've allowed the rules to favor Audi's technology, wich in turn have kept Audi in the sport for quite some time now. But wich is better 30 intermitent teams or 1 permanently commited to the series?

I think you're missing my point. Regardless of Diesel or Hybrid tech, Im sure the Audi would ALWAYS be faster. They put more money/research time into the car, they get a better car. I have no doubt that if Pescarolo/Courage, or Lola-Aston Martin had put in the same effort and energy, they could have built a car quick enough to compete with the Audi on level grounds.

Look at Peugeot. They pour senseless amounts of money into a program, in addition to committing to running more than 3 years, they get wins. Simple. The difference is Audi has money from VW to throw around, while Peugeot does not. If they still had the cash flow, I'm sure Peugeot would still be running brutally strong. Why? After several years of breakdowns, last year (a)Peugeot won EVERY race that was less than 24 Hours.

I know that Toyota is a Counter-example... But come on. You can't expect to just show up on-scene with money and expect to beat teams with 30+ years of experience(In the case of F1) JUST because you have money. I reckon if they actually stuck a program out, they would do well. They ran pretty decent in '09, Im sure that by now they could be moving in for some podiums.

Time+Money=Wins. McLaren. Ferrari. Audi. Corvette. Porsche.
 
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I agree. Toyota was starting to figure out F1. I'm sure that they had more money than Mclaren, Renault, Ferrari, Red Bull, and Williams. Their driver lineup just wasn't the greatest. I'm sure Audi would've struggled against Peugeot if they were on Petrol. Remember 2000-2004? Audi still dominated with Petrol. But, if Audi never did introduce the Diesel technology, then maybe Everyone would have stayed petrol? :sly: but I'm sure someone else would have figured it out sooner or later.
 
Toyota's problem was that they tried to run a Formula 1 team by a committee in Tokyo. And you just can't do that. They kept coming to a compromise on decisions, and that ended up compromising the team.
 
I. Priced that when They won the WRC title, it was "Toyota Team Europe" and now their doing the same thing with the LMP1 program. That's probably another reason why the F1 team didn't make it like you said because the headquarters are in Tokyo. To make it a lot easier, you need to be in Europe.
 
The F1 team was based on Cologne, but all major decisions were made from Tokyo. I think the TS030 might be based in Cologne as well.
 
This is bullcrap. Seriously WEC and ELMS suck. They need to make this content available in the US. They're shutting out a part of their fanbase.

*SIGH*

Does anyone even have a live-timing?

EDIT: woo Luxury Racing on pole in GTE. Wonder what happened to the Fassler car.

I think the best bet for us US viewers is Audi TV...
 
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