Fiat/Abarth 500

[Philly]

It might be something about parking too or something. However, I don't think the GTI has reflectors. It has little yellow lights but I donno if they do a double purpose.

Any idea what engine is in the sport? It would make sense for them to stick with a bigger engine because we Americans seem to have a need for more horsepower.

 

[Tornado]

Dear Chrysler: Put the original front end back on it. Thank you.



I have no problem with the reflectors, but I would rather they hadn't put silly F1 winglets into the bumper,

 

[Moglet]

Any idea what engine is in the sport? It would make sense for them to stick with a bigger engine because we Americans seem to have a need for more horsepower.

They're going to use the turbocharged 1.4 MultiAir four cylinder. The same engine as found in the Alfa Mito Cloverleaf

 

[Keef]

Also, notice the reflectors in front of the front wheel arches. Is that a US thing?

All US cars have reflectors that can be seen from the side of the car, so you can more easily see a car crossing in front of you on a dark country road or whatever. Pretty standard safety feature, I mean, bicycles have them lol. While Europe is worried about hitting pedestrians we worry about hitting another car on a typical 55 mph country road...

Now, this is the Sport, so what front end treatment will the normal one have?

 

[Moglet]

While Europe is worried about hitting pedestrians we worry about hitting another car on a typical 55 mph country road...

We worry about hitting pedestrians more since people can generally see that huge bright area of light infront of a car when it's crossing infront of you.

Joking aside I think it's because in any situation where a road crossing or turning occurs at above 30mph in this country the road will be lit up with street lights.

 

[Omnis]

What's with all the fussing? I think it looks good.

 

[homeforsummer]

Of course it looks good, it's a 500 It just looks a bit heavy-handed compared to the more simple Euro model.

 

[YSSMAN]

Which is weird, because the 500 (generally speaking) is unlike anything sold in the US currently. The "standard" car will stand-out completely in a lineup. I think the only other small car that will draw more attention would be the Cooper S, and even then, that may be a stretch.

 

[homeforsummer]

You might find the 500 is the 'next Cooper', given how many there are in the UK now. There are a hell of a lot of MINIs, sure, but the 500 is selling unbelievably well.

 

[Moglet]

What's with all the fussing? I think it looks good.

It still looks good, it just seems to have lost a bit of it's charm. Compare the 2 below and you can see immediate differences;

Both are 'Sport' models. The HID headlights make it look super goofy anyway, but it would appear they are standard on the US model.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

Or then it is the usual "Pictured model with $optional extras$"..

 

[McLaren]

So I may have missed it, but are they going to be selling these things at actual Chrysler dealers, or will they be smart & sell them with something appealing?

 

[Omnis]

It still looks good, it just seems to have lost a bit of it's charm. Compare the 2 below and you can see immediate differences;

Both are 'Sport' models. The HID headlights make it look super goofy anyway, but it would appear they are standard on the US model.

Your version is the goofy looking one.

 

[emotionap1]

I'm not going to read all 6 pages of lunacy... But... If they can manage to up the HP in the Fiat 500 and do a good job marketing it in the US. It is sure to be a winner. It already is in most of the world but us silly Americans only care about HP.

 

[Moglet]

Your version is the goofy looking one.

There's a reason they've left the lights on for these photos. The HID units make the car look cross-eyed! I wish I could find a good picture of them online but they're all body-kitted monstrosities

 

[Jondot]

Yeah I prefer the American version. Sorry.

Although that right foglamp has totally been Photoshopped on.

 

[Danoff]

Chrysler shows off Fiat 500 Sport for North America!


http://www.autoblog.com/2010/09/14/chrysler-shows-off-fiat-500-sport-for-north-america/
​

Ew.

There's a minimum height/width aspect ratio that I like, and that's not it.​

 

[YSSMAN]

So I may have missed it, but are they going to be selling these things at actual Chrysler dealers, or will they be smart & sell them with something appealing?

My understanding is that Fiat will have their own dealer network that will be paired up with some currently standing Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep dealers. They're being hand-picked by Chrysler-Fiat, and you won't be able to find them in every city. Detroit will only be getting one Fiat dealer, apparently. Grand Rapids won't (stupid, I think).

I believe the plan afterward is to get Fiat/Alfa Romeo dealers going. That'd probably be in late 2011 or early 2012. Again, probably only in select cities.

 

[cH3wY]

Going back to the size of the engine. Seat Ibiza Bocanegra has been in production for nearly two years producing 180bhp from a 1.4TSI (a VW unit) whilst producing +40mpg (imp)

 

[Sniffs]

NOW i find info on the american take on the Cinq (picked up a british buddy's habit of calling them that). they WOULD have to give it the lens headlights...i think that's the standard over here, now. they're getting away from the clear lens with faceted backing headlights from the 90's. i think it's because once those lenses have 5 years on them, they get opaque on us.

Home: you guys never heard the american standard for sidemarkers? that law's been in place for 40 years. it's a safety thing. not only are we required to have 4 side markers somehow, they have to have reflectors in them. period. it's technically illegal to sell replacement composite lamps without them. think of it as the same as the requirement for bumper fogs over there

 

[Moglet]

Sniffpetrol's ad for the new TwinAir made me giggle;

*WARNING, CONTAINS SWEARING*

I really want one. Better performance, better consumption, no tax, no congestion charge, and that fun soundtrack;

 

[Jondot]

Sounds a bit like my car but with half the fuel consumption. I'll take it!

And move to London so I can irritate the Insight drivers that now have to pay £10 a day.

 

[McLaren]

My understanding is that Fiat will have their own dealer network that will be paired up with some currently standing Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep dealers. They're being hand-picked by Chrysler-Fiat, and you won't be able to find them in every city. Detroit will only be getting one Fiat dealer, apparently. Grand Rapids won't (stupid, I think).

I believe the plan afterward is to get Fiat/Alfa Romeo dealers going. That'd probably be in late 2011 or early 2012. Again, probably only in select cities.

Then that probably means only Chrysler dealers near Plano Parkway or Lemmon Avenue will be getting one.

 

[Robin]

I'd say the US version does make the car look slightly better but the 500 as a whole still does nothing for me.

 

[homeforsummer]

The TwinAir seems like a fantastic car. I think Sniffpetrol's fake ad is right on the money. Diesel is pretty much dead in small cars. The engines are ridiculously expensive to make compared to an equivalent petrol so whilst they make sense in bigger cars where the torque is useful for heavy bodies, in small and light cars a small capacity forced-induction petrol engine is much more useful. Nissan are doing the same thing with the new Micra - A 1.2 miller cycle engine is replacing the old Renault-sourced diesels.

Only time diesel can make proper sense now is in something like a Smart where it won't get less than 65mpg even if you cane it. When I had a Fortwo Cdi for a weekend I'd hardly say I was hypermiling and I managed 75mpg easily. With those sort of numbers, diesel makes sense again.

As for the 500, I've been going off them recently. The Abarth still looks good but now there are loads of Cinqs about the impact has definitely worn off.

Put the TwinAir in a Panda (or the upcoming Uno) and then we'd be talking.

 

[Jondot]

The TwinAir seems like a fantastic car. I think Sniffpetrol's fake ad is right on the money. Diesel is pretty much dead in small cars. The engines are ridiculously expensive to make compared to an equivalent petrol so whilst they make sense in bigger cars where the torque is useful for heavy bodies, in small and light cars a small capacity forced-induction petrol engine is much more useful. Nissan are doing the same thing with the new Micra - A 1.2 miller cycle engine is replacing the old Renault-sourced diesels.

Only time diesel can make proper sense now is in something like a Smart where it won't get less than 65mpg even if you cane it. When I had a Fortwo Cdi for a weekend I'd hardly say I was hypermiling and I managed 75mpg easily. With those sort of numbers, diesel makes sense again.

As for the 500, I've been going off them recently. The Abarth still looks good but now there are loads of Cinqs about the impact has definitely worn off.

Put the TwinAir in a Panda (or the upcoming Uno) and then we'd be talking.

I wouldn't say that exactly - and let's not forget it depends what you're planning on doing with them. Or indeed who you are. Take the Fiesta - you can have a 1.4 diesel or 1.25 petrol, both with roughly the same performance figures, each at very different price points. I've driven both, and can safely say I prefer the petrol - it's far more entertaining, and while a bit noisy it's not completely useless on the motorway. I imagine my mother, however, would pick the diesel - it's more refined at higher speeds and only goes as fast as she needs it to around town. She'd probably take one drive of the petrol and say she didn't like how noisy it was.

So I wouldn't write off small diesels just yet - they still have their market.

And actually I'd say it's more of an issue with small diesels themselves than diesels in small cars. The aforementioned Fiesta is from my point of view useless. It's not quick enough in an urban environment, and there's not enough power to comfortably overtake someone on a motorway. The 1.6 version of the same engine would be far better for it - a comfortable amount of power with basically the same economy figures.

 

[homeforsummer]

I'm not saying that diesels don't have some favourable characteristics - torque is always good and you can use it more of the time than you can with petrols.

However, small diesels and diesels in small cars don't make a lot of sense.

Generally, small cars are driven around town and town driving (and short trips) is where diesels are most out of their element. Especially newer ones with particulate filters which have a habit of clogging up when they aren't warmed up - and city driving is rarely strenuous enough to fully warm a DPF. Which is why there have been incidents of MINI diesels and a few other types catching fire when the DPF clogs up, overheats and sets alight.

Fuel consumption is also limited in slow speed driving. Diesels thrive on constant revs on a motorway, not at varied revs and short journeys.

Oddly enough, the aforementioned Smart probably gets around this problem, since it's small and free-revving enough that the DPF gets nicely warmed up even in town, and since it's a tiny engine it doesn't use much diesel even in less efficient driving.

I'm not sure the noise thing really matters. Modern small petrol engines are pretty much silent anyway. I've been driving around in a 10-plate Corsa 1.4 today and below about 3,400 rpm it's virtually inaudible and has enough poke to get you around town. Refinement wise it's fine too, unlike most diesels in smaller cars you can't feel any of the vibrations or whatever.

The last problem of course is cost. Presuming most people buy a small diesel to save money with good fuel consumption, for most of them it takes a good five to seven years to make up the purchase price in fuel savings over an equivalent petrol. And I know very, very few people who keep a small car that long.

At smaller capacities, modern petrol engines are getting so good that small diesels really don't make much sense any more unless you're picking one up cheaply second hand.

 

[PAPPACLART]

I love that car, but yes,we all get use to the power, and it seems slow after a while.

My motorcycle has 130bhp, and tips the scales at 187kg, that's 695bhp per ton. Although I don't need more power, does not stop me wanting more! :-)

 

[Jondot]

I'm not sure the noise thing really matters. Modern small petrol engines are pretty much silent anyway. I've been driving around in a 10-plate Corsa 1.4 today and below about 3,400 rpm it's virtually inaudible and has enough poke to get you around town. Refinement wise it's fine too, unlike most diesels in smaller cars you can't feel any of the vibrations or whatever.

To be fair that's not really a great comparison. The 1.4 and indeed the 1.2 are both 4cyl 16v affairs - which of course are going to sound nice and smooth. Presumably this TwinAir is going to sound more like the 3cyl 1.0, and having driven a Corsa with one of those under the bonnet I can assure you it's not a refined affair. Far more loud and grumbly than the 1.2 I had my driving lessons in, anyway.

I'm just guessing, though - this 2 cylinder might sound totally different to a 3. I've got even less idea about Nissan's attempt.

 

[Tornado]

From what I've read, Fiat took great pains to make it seem like a normal 4-cylinder, and it is only noticeable when at idle or if you really pound on it.