first time driving an AT car...

[Skygrasper550]

Yesterday my dad let me have a go at our Kia Rio, which was fitted with an automatic transmission. My dad usually lets me use our early 90's Toyota Corolla with a manual transmission when I'm driving around, and my sister usually uses the Kia. But she's not around so he had me use it, just to let me get familiar with driving an AT vehicle. And I have to say, coming from someone who has driven nothing but manual transmission cars up to this point, it feels a bit weird. Before putting the gearbox in Drive (D), you have to step on the brakes first; otherwise the car would just set off on itself. And you have to let off the brakes slowly if you want a smooth take-off. It's alienating at first but I can get used to it. Though, it's still not something I would prefer. I still love driving our Corolla because of the manual transmission, even if it's using a carburetor engine (surprised when I found out it wasn't using fuel-injection).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the torque converter in an AT use fuel? If so, that would explain the horrible fuel consumption my sister experiences, because her workplace isn't really that far from where we live, and yet at times, she experiences frequent trips to the gas station.

Have any of you guys experienced driving with both transmissions? What are your experiences and thoughts?

 

[TB]

Have any of you guys experienced driving with both transmissions?

I've owner 5 automatics and 3 manuals. My current vehicles are an automatic Pilot and the Fiat is a manual.

My preference has nothing to do with Manuals4Lyfe/Death2Autos (or vice versa) and more about which is easier, which for me depens on the situation. When you're dealing with kids in the backseat, I don't really want another thing to mess with. I just want to throw it in Drive and go. Conversely, one of the requirements for the "fun car" was that it be a manual.

 

[05XR8]

The short version is: Short low speed city trips yield high fuel consumption next to longer higher speed freeway trips. Which is why most fuel ratings show lower city/higher hwy fuel numbers.

I've had a mix of manual and autos. I prefer manual as most cars I owned had smooth shifting transmissions. and clutches. I feel bored when driving an auto and dislike using the brake so more in heavy traffic conditions. With a manual I can leave it in neutral, foot off the brake and relax. Current ride is a 6speed auto. I can live with either.

 

[V0RT3X]

It's so strange to hear this, seeing as people her in America don't know what a manual transmission is. Most cars here are auto, so I am one of the few who keeps the manuals alive!

 

[Skygrasper550]

I've owner 5 automatics and 3 manuals. My current vehicles are an automatic Pilot and the Fiat is a manual.

My preference has nothing to do with Manuals4Lyfe/Death2Autos (or vice versa) and more about which is easier, which for me depens on the situation. When you're dealing with kids in the backseat, I don't really want another thing to mess with. I just want to throw it in Drive and go. Conversely, one of the requirements for the "fun car" was that it be a manual.

I prefer a manual transmission, but I'm not into that Manuals4Lyfe/Death2Autos kind of thing. That's just silly. Automatic transmissions do have their own perks, just like what you said. Because if they didn't, they wouldn't be in use up until now.

The short version is: Short low speed city trips yield high fuel consumption next to longer higher speed freeway trips. Which is why most fuel ratings show lower city/higher hwy fuel numbers.

I've had a mix of manual and autos. I prefer manual as most cars I owned had smooth shifting transmissions. and clutches. I feel bored when driving an auto and dislike using the brake so more in heavy traffic conditions. With a manual I can leave it in neutral, foot off the brake and relax. Current ride is a 6speed auto. I can live with either.

Well yeah, low-speed trips do yield higher fuel consumption, but from what I noticed and experienced with my sister's Kia, it's just weird. While it is my first time driving that car, I do seldom hitch a ride back home in that whenever I get to catch up with her. I've managed to hitch 3 rides over a week, and from what I noticed, I can't believe that little Kia uses up quite a lot more fuel than our Corolla. So there must be something.

Same with the manual, I got to experience driving at a highway/main road, I just set our Corolla in 3rd gear, foot off the gas and let the revs take care of moving the car forward.

It's so strange to hear this, seeing as people her in America don't know what a manual transmission is. Most cars here are auto, so I am one of the few who keeps the manuals alive!

Really? Well that in turn, is strange for me to hear about it because over here automatic transmissions aren't as popular as manual transmission, mainly because they just simply "get the job done" with no hassle. And you'll never get to see a public utility vehicle (bus, jeepney, even a van) that has an automatic transmission, because that's bad for business.

Well congratulations to you sir

 

[V0RT3X]

Really? Well that in turn, is strange for me to hear about it because over here automatic transmissions aren't as popular as manual transmission, mainly because they just simply "get the job done" with no hassle. And you'll never get to see a public utility vehicle (bus, jeepney, even a van) that has an automatic transmission, because that's bad for business.

Well congratulations to you sir

In America, people want to use as little effort as possible. Plus, modern autos due to their gearing get better MPG.

 

[Slash]

America is lazy. I never seen stick cars. Only know of a few and those that have them are my friends and are car guys. Everyone else absolutely hates having to shift their cars.

 

[Leggy1]

Most people here drive manual cars, and very few will learn to drive auto-only. Autos here are usually only found in cars like Range Rovers, 5 Series and other big cars, but are probably getting more popular as they are now more efficient. I've never driven an auto car but don't mind changing gear, although it's not always a fun thing to do.

 

[Tornado]

Sticks on hills with stoplights are not fun. And you never notice how often that happens until you are driving one.

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the torque converter in an AT use fuel? If so, that would explain the horrible fuel consumption my sister experiences, because her workplace isn't really that far from where we live, and yet at times, she experiences frequent trips to the gas station.

A torque converter (fluid clutch) cannot deliver the same efficiency as a conventional clutch when it is not locked, due to slippage converting some of the applied energy to heat, especially during the engine speed change when changing gear or taking off.

Some automatics (especially older designs) will not have a lockup mechanism so suffer this loss through all driving conditions.

This is only true of the conventional automatic gearbox. A modern electronically controlled dual clutch gearbox does not have this problem.

 

[Grandea GTR]

I drive both. (240SX is Manual, Mazda6 is Auto).

Like you are, I'm not in the whole "Manual is everything" dealio (proof is that I chose my daily to be an automatic). I find benefits to both, such as engagement with MT and convenience with AT.

Back in the days, AT's sucked spheres with fuel economy. Nowadays, it's rather becoming quite the opposite.

 

[Cale]

I always reach for the shifter when I drive an automatic, and I hate not engine braking.

 

[Jet Badger]

Sticks on hills with stoplights are not fun. And you never notice how often that happens until you are driving one.

It's all a matter of habit I suppose. I just use the handbrake on steeper uphill starts and it's never bothered me. That being said, hopping into a torquey automatic after that is a real bliss.

Getting carried away for a second and finding more brake pedal instead of clutch is fairly confusing though.

 

[Skygrasper550]

America is lazy. I never seen stick cars. Only know of a few and those that have them are my friends and are car guys. Everyone else absolutely hates having to shift their cars.

In America, people want to use as little effort as possible.

I don't mean to be rude, but it's weird that I'm not at all surprised to hear that.

Plus, modern autos due to their gearing get better MPG.

Interesting. I guess automatics over here are yet to reach that level of technology that makes them a lot more fuel-efficient than before.

Sticks on hills with stoplights are not fun. And you never notice how often that happens until you are driving one.

It's all a matter of habit I suppose. I just use the handbrake on steeper uphill starts and it's never bothered me. That being said, hopping into a torquey automatic after that is a real bliss.

Getting carried away for a second and finding more brake pedal instead of clutch is fairly confusing though.

Same here, thanks to where I live (which is at the base of a mountain range), I trained myself to reach for the handbrake immediately whenever I need to stop at an incline. Then I rev the engine higher than usual and stay at those revs before I release the handbrake and set off.

 

[Joey D]

And I have to say, coming from someone who has driven nothing but manual transmission cars up to this point, it feels a bit weird. Before putting the gearbox in Drive (D), you have to step on the brakes first; otherwise the car would just set off on itself. And you have to let off the brakes slowly if you want a smooth take-off.

What? The reason you have to push in the brake is to disengage the safety switch that allows you to shift, not because the car will set off on it's own. Once you're out of park you can shift without using the brakes what-so-ever.

And letting off the brakes slowly? Uh I just lift my foot off and move it to the accelerator, it's smooth.

In America, people want to use as little effort as possible.

America is lazy.

Ya....no. It's not that American's are lazy at all, it's that a vast majority of Americans and I suspect car owners in general don't care since they use their car for transportation and that's it. If all you're concerned with it driving to and from work, the store, and where ever else you go during your daily life, why add yet another thing to do? Sure many auto enthusiasts enjoy manauls, but most people aren't enthusiasts and most people drive vehicles where a manual would be pointless.

I don't drive a manual because I don't see the point, I own a truck, not a sports car. Would my truck be better with a manual, probably not, it's probably be exactly the same.

 

[Dennisch]

Sticks on hills with stoplights are not fun. And you never notice how often that happens until you are driving one.

You're all noobs. You guys ruined it for yourselves by using a foot operated parking brake.

 

[Mikeybc]

Interesting. I guess automatics over here are yet to reach that level of technology that makes them a lot more fuel-efficient than before.

I've driven some Honda models that offered both std and auto trans...2001 and 2002 Civics, 2011 Accord coupe and a 2006 CRV. In every case the automatic revved approximately 400 or 500 rpm lower at highway speeds than its manual counterpart . Around town though a conservatively driven manual should still get better fuel mileage.

In very slippery conditions in winter I much prefer a manual transmission.

 

[V0RT3X]

When I was dailying my dads na mx5 I gave my friend a ride to school, and he was very confused with what I was doing with my legs and the shifter, because he had no idea what a manual car even was!

 

[Harry6784]

I daily my car through everything, with a heavy clutch pedal and a beefy clutch that acts like a on/off switch, wouldn't have it any other way. Stick cars keep you focused on the road. Whenever I drive my Corolla I tend to fiddle with the radio and start daydreaming to kill time.

Shame more and more new cars don't have the standard transmission option available.

 

[Joey D]

Stick cars keep you focused on the road. Whenever I drive my Corolla I tend to fiddle with the radio and start daydreaming to kill time.

If you need a manual to keep you focuses you might want to rethinking your driving. There are literally thousands of things going on when driving that should keep your focus on the road. Plus, once you get the act of driving a manual down it's second nature, at least that's what a vast majority of manual drivers say.

Shame more and more new cars don't have the standard transmission option available.

The only way this is ever going to happen is if those who campaign for manuals actually buy new cars, if automakers see money in it and a way to get sales, they will offer the choice. But it's pretty clear that people who buy new cars find autos more to their liking and even auto enthusiasts who buy new tend to migrate towards double clutch transmissions over traditional manuals.

 

[Harry6784]

If you need a manual to keep you focuses you might want to rethinking your driving. There are literally thousands of things going on when driving that should keep your focus on the road. Plus, once you get the act of driving a manual down it's second nature, at least that's what a vast majority of manual drivers say.

It is 2nd nature but it doesn't let me get distracted. I'm always working on rev matching, skipping gears, utilizing engine braking...etc. Just makes driving more involved which I like.

The only way this is ever going to happen is if those who campaign for manuals actually buy new cars, if automakers see money in it and a way to get sales, they will offer the choice. But it's pretty clear that people who buy new cars find autos more to their liking and even auto enthusiasts who buy new tend to migrate towards double clutch transmissions over traditional manuals.

I understand its all about money, demand and sales figures, I guess I just get more enjoyment out of a car when I as a driver have a larger role to play in making it operate. Guess that's a dying breed.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

Disclaimer: The following may contain biased drivel. See avatar for details.

When I was dailying my dads na mx5 I gave my friend a ride to school, and he was very confused with what I was doing with my legs and the shifter, because he had no idea what a manual car even was!

it feels a bit weird.

I agree with this. When I was a kid I thought everyone except my parents was a bad driver since my parents were the only people with manuals.

Before putting the gearbox in Drive (D), you have to step on the brakes first; otherwise the car would just set off on itself. And you have to let off the brakes slowly if you want a smooth take-off.

Thanks for the driving lesson

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the torque converter in an AT use fuel? If so, that would explain the horrible fuel consumption my sister experiences, because her workplace isn't really that far from where we live, and yet at times, she experiences frequent trips to the gas station.

The torque converter can be a source of energy losses, but in a modern car the automatic gearbox is usually more efficient than a manual, for a couple of reasons. Locking torque converters mean than no more energy is wasted than when using a clutch, and modern autos now often have more ratios than a manual. Additionally, these ratios are usually taller for better economy than an enthusiast focused manual.

To answer your economy question, there are two factors that could be causing such poor economy. The first, and less likely factor, is the fact that the trips she takes are short. If the engine isn't being warmed up completely on her commute, it's likely that the engine is not running as efficiently as it would normally be. However, that's unlikely given that you live in a consistently warm climate. The issue is most likely your sister's driving. Driving habits make a much, much bigger difference to economy than the car will. In particular, if you find that she drives aggressively, uses the brakes frequently, and tends to drive quickly, then her poor fuel consumption is almost certainly her own fault.

Have any of you guys experienced driving with both transmissions? What are your experiences and thoughts?

I had the relatively unique experience of learning to drive on both an auto and a manual (two of each, actually). It was an interesting and fairly educational experience, and I consider myself fairly lucky to have reasonably extensive driving experience (as much as a car crazy 19 year old can) in both automatic and manual cars, which is fairly unusual for people of my age both in America and in the UK.

One thing that really bothers me is when people complain about manuals and hills. It takes a little practice, sure, but hill starts are not hard. I grew up in and learnt to drive in Pittsburgh, where going anywhere meant doing several hill starts per journey. I've always found automatics slightly scary on hills, since they roll back and there's no real way to reverse this. A manual car, driven properly, will not roll back at all. This is one of the reasons I thought, as a child, that everyone other than my parents was a bad driver. It was so unnerving being on a hill; I always used to get scared we'd hit the car behind us.

Additionally, I absolutely hate the fact that automatics offer no engine braking. Again, this comes down to the fact that I grew up and learnt to drive in a very hilly city, which means that driving an automatic requires extensive use of the brake. In a manual, you just pick a ratio and let the engine keep you from careening down the road.

Anyway, the auto vs. manual debate has been done a million times before, and in the end almost all of it comes down to personal preference. Automatics are objectively better, but manuals generally offer a more involved driving experience and more control over the car.

 

[Joey D]

Additionally, I absolutely hate the fact that automatics offer no engine braking.

You can engine brake with an auto, I do it all the time when I'm pulling a trailer and when I was in the mountains I ride different gears to save the brakes. You just drop the car into a lower gear like you would a manual, but instead of depressing the clutch you just click the lever back to whatever gear you want.

Even the rather archaic transmission on my Taco has 4 selectable gears plus drive.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

You can engine brake with an auto, I do it all the time when I'm pulling a trailer and when I was in the mountains I ride different gears to save the brakes. You just drop the car into a lower gear like you would a manual, but instead of depressing the clutch you just click the lever back to whatever gear you want.

Even the rather archaic transmission on my Taco has 4 selectable gears plus drive.

Hmm, I'm assuming that that's dependent on the gearbox, since the Elantra my parents had for 2 years didn't seem to engine brake in manual mode.

 

[Joey D]

Hmm, I'm assuming that that's dependent on the gearbox, since the Elantra my parents had for 2 years didn't seem to engine brake in manual mode.

I don't think so, my 82 Oldsmobile let me do it and that was about as generic as they come. Even if it doesn't have the D 3 2 L on the gear stick you should be able to tap the +/- and downshift, sure there's a rev limiter so you don't over rev the engine, but I think for the most part you can engine brake.

Is the Elantra a CVT? I'm not sure how those would engine brake.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

I don't think so, my 82 Oldsmobile let me do it and that was about as generic as they come. Even if it doesn't have the D 3 2 L on the gear stick you should be able to tap the +/- and downshift, sure there's a rev limiter so you don't over rev the engine, but I think for the most part you can engine brake.

Is the Elantra a CVT? I'm not sure how those would engine brake.

Nope, normal torque converter. It's possible that there was some engine braking, but not enough to slow the car noticeably. I'm used to being able to see a stop ahead on a clear road and use the engine and gearbox to gently lower the speed to around 15 mph, then apply the brakes. I couldn't do that on the Elantra; it would have taken far too long for the car to slow down. Additionally, when going down hills the car would continue to gain speed fairly rapidly even when in manual mode, unlike a manual which would only gain speed reasonably gently.

 

[Slash]

My buds 96 GMC 305/4 speed auto used to engine brake a lot when we popped it out of drive and into a lower gear and what not. Quite noticeable and stops the truck with ease.

 

[CinnamonOD]

Mine and my brother's Golf had its transmission changed from automatic to manual in mid March, since then I have not driven an automatic.

Sticks on hills with stoplights are not fun. And you never notice how often that happens until you are driving one.

It is hard when you start driving manuals, but once you know your car's clutch pedal, it's not a problem.

_______

And I don't like engine braking, I know how to do it, but I think it's easier to press the brake pedal.

 

[Harry6784]

And I don't like engine braking, I know how to do it, but I think it's easier to press the brake pedal.

Only time you need engine braking is going down a long hill. Try and ride your brakes the whole time, and you won't have any brakes left when you get to the bottom

 

[ToyGTone]

Most cars over here are Automatic, Manual is really rare especially because it's much harder to them to drive than automatic and it makes doing other tasks harder (Air condition, Radio...etc), at least to what they believe.

Most Manual's over here are ether some cheap Japanese Pickup Truck/Mini Bus or (rarely) some Sport/Muscle Cars.

But all drivers over here had some experiences with Manual when they Learning to drive at a Driving School to get their driving license.

Personally if i'm going to drive normally to some places and such then i'll be using Automatic but if i'm going to drive some track day and such (which i doubt if i'll do something like that in the future) then Manual all the way.