first time driving an AT car...

[TenEightyOne]

Sticks on hills with stoplights are not fun. And you never notice how often that happens until you are driving one.

Not really, it's down to a little bit of practice. Used to be a part of the standard driving test, don't know if it still is. It's all about balancing the clutch, not so hard when you know how

 

[DRJULESSTEELE]

Not really, it's down to a little bit of practice. Used to be a part of the standard driving test, don't know if it still is. It's all about balancing the clutch, not so hard when you know how

Fun fact I actually learnt how to drive stick from playing GT4. No one in my family can drive manual but me, guess I'm an alpha female lol.

 

[Skygrasper550]

When I was dailying my dads na mx5 I gave my friend a ride to school, and he was very confused with what I was doing with my legs and the shifter, because he had no idea what a manual car even was!

WTF... Seriously?!?!

What? The reason you have to push in the brake is to disengage the safety switch that allows you to shift, not because the car will set off on it's own. Once you're out of park you can shift without using the brakes what-so-ever.

And letting off the brakes slowly? Uh I just lift my foot off and move it to the accelerator, it's smooth.

Hmmm... you may have a point there, because I can vaguely remember how I managed to set off on our Kia. It WAS my first time driving an auto. What I do remember is that my dad told me to first hold the brake BEFORE putting the gear into Drive. I guess that kind of rectifies the fact that I'm just not into automatics.

Hey now, I'm speaking from experience. Because the moment I was able to put the gear in Drive and released the handbrake, I let off the brake too much and the car nudged forward. I didn't even step on the throttle to make it go forward. So my dad told me to gently let off the brakes when taking off.

I agree with this. When I was a kid I thought everyone except my parents was a bad driver since my parents were the only people with manuals.

What's interesting is that, my dad at one time owned a Toyota Revo (which my uncle has bought from him and still owns it). Thinking about it now, I never had that "bad driver" experience like yours, because even though that SUV had an automatic transmission, my dad's driving was still as smooth as silk. No hiccups.

Thanks for the driving lesson

Like I said above, I'm talking from experience and am not really into automatics. Don't judge me

To answer your economy question, there are two factors that could be causing such poor economy. The first, and less likely factor, is the fact that the trips she takes are short. If the engine isn't being warmed up completely on her commute, it's likely that the engine is not running as efficiently as it would normally be. However, that's unlikely given that you live in a consistently warm climate.

That's what I was thinking. Our Kia doesn't really need having its engine warmed up, unlike our Corolla. And I can agree with you at that, because it's just normal city driving whenever she commutes to work.

The issue is most likely your sister's driving. Driving habits make a much, much bigger difference to economy than the car will. In particular, if you find that she drives aggressively, uses the brakes frequently, and tends to drive quickly, then her poor fuel consumption is almost certainly her own fault.

She doesn't drive aggressively at all. The biggest reason for that is that the Rio has an appalling suspension setup. I don't know why, but the stock suspension on the last-gen Rio is unusually stiff. It's so bad that a crease or crack on the pavement feels like a 🤬 pothole. And I experience that even when she's driving slowly. I can tell that she's driving really carefully just to make the ride as smooth as possible. Honestly, if an old person were to drive that car, their spine wouldn't last 100 meters from where I live. I keep asking myself "This is not a 🤬 sports car, why does it have suspension as stiff as this???"

Add to that matter, because of the stiff suspension some of the interior components tend to rattle whenever the car drives over bumps and cracks and what-have-you on the pavement. It's just horrible. That's another reason why I prefer driving our Corolla.

I had the relatively unique experience of learning to drive on both an auto and a manual (two of each, actually). It was an interesting and fairly educational experience, and I consider myself fairly lucky to have reasonably extensive driving experience (as much as a car crazy 19 year old can) in both automatic and manual cars, which is fairly unusual for people of my age both in America and in the UK.

One thing that really bothers me is when people complain about manuals and hills. It takes a little practice, sure, but hill starts are not hard.

It's tricky at first, but you get used to it. I actually enrolled in a driving school, and the instructor taught me how to do a hill start using only the foot brake. He refused to let me continue on until I got it right. I can still do it, but I just use the handbrake nowadays because it's easier.

Anyway, the auto vs. manual debate has been done a million times before, and in the end almost all of it comes down to personal preference. Automatics are objectively better, but manuals generally offer a more involved driving experience and more control over the car.

More control over the car is the main reason why I prefer manuals over automatics. And I love playing with the shifter and seeing how fast I can change gears.

 

[Dean]

Used to be a part of the standard driving test, don't know if it still is.

I think it depends on where you live. I learned to stay stationary on a hill with the clutch only, on one of the steeper roads we have here (with a gradient of 20%+ if that matters ), but it wasn't a part of the final test, driving up a steep road was but no hill starts. I surely did stall the first time but, yes, with practice it's not the hardest thing to do. Generally speaking though, I find automatics easier and I can understand why a lot of people like it - as long as you don't use your left foot to brake, that's something I learned quite fast 👍 - however I personally prefer the small "challenges" I have with the manuals. 👍

 

[Tornado]

Not really, it's down to a little bit of practice. Used to be a part of the standard driving test, don't know if it still is. It's all about balancing the clutch, not so hard when you know how

Not really what? Practice for what? Making it fun?


I know how to do it. My dad parks his car on a hill, so to drive it at all I pretty much have to know. That doesn't mean doing so is an enjoyable experience compared to just letting off the brakes and going, even though I otherwise enjoy using a stick.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

Not really what? Practice for what? Making it fun?

Not really hard. In fact, I'd argue that it's easy. Yes, you need a bit of practice, but they're not hard at all.

 

[Tornado]

So something I didn't say anyway.

 

[Pseudopod]

I've mostly driven manuals, but I've driven my dad's automatic subaru-something a few times. It's fine for short trips, but it gets very dull in the long run. I also find it harder to keep a steady speed with automatic transmissions. At least the ones I've tried.

Manual is actually not very hard. It takes some getting used to, but you can easily fiddle with the ac, radio or whatever else while driving. The actual gear change only takes a few seconds, and the stick is usually right next to the radio and AC anyway.

Most cars are manuals here (in norway), and you'll always be in an automatic when taking your driving lessons. If you insist on taking the lessons with an automatic, you won't be allowed to drive manuals at all.

 

[Legro]

Manuel

Manuel

Manuel

Manuel

 

[TheCracker]

Que?


If you learn in an auto and predominantly drive an auto after that, you'll likely always find a manual a bit of a chore. If you learn in a manual, it will always be second nature.

I have both at my disposal and have been driving long enough now that i can drive either without even thinking about it. The only time i do have to put any thought into it is when i haven't driven one of them for a few weeks and i come to start it for the first time. Getting your head into the differing start-up procedures is the one thing you have to give some mental thought to.

Having grown up in and learnt to drive in a hilly town, and now living in an even hillier city, clutch balancing in a manual has become another 'not-even-having-to-think-about' task. Why every single manual car isn't fitted with hill start assist, like my Subaru is, is something that's always baffled me. It must save so much clutch life.

 

[Joey D]

It's fine for short trips, but it gets very dull in the long run.

I've always been confused by this, most long journeys are done on the highway, with a manual don't you just put it in top gear and cruise? It's not like you're playing with the gears while driving down the road. I've driven a manual car 160 miles across the state before and I think the only times I actually shifted were getting on and off the freeway and then the short journey to my destination.

 

[Pseudopod]

I've always been confused by this, most long journeys are done on the highway, with a manual don't you just put it in top gear and cruise? It's not like you're playing with the gears while driving down the road. I've driven a manual car 160 miles across the state before and I think the only times I actually shifted were getting on and off the freeway and then the short journey to my destination.

Depends on the area I guess. There's a lot of long and twisty roads where I live.

 

[synchromesh]

I live in the U.S., and I will never drive an automatic. My Mini is a manual, my Delorean is a manual, my ATV is a manual, even the company's dump truck is a manual, so truck drivers aren't bored and for control. Unless you're in a paddle shift supercar, automatics are boring. I take pride knowing something all but one of my other friends know how to do. Plus, I like to feel like I'm doing more than driving, I controlling an actual part of the car.

 

[Crash]

I daily my car through everything, with a heavy clutch pedal and a beefy clutch that acts like a on/off switch, wouldn't have it any other way. Stick cars keep you focused on the road. Whenever I drive my Corolla I tend to fiddle with the radio and start daydreaming to kill time.

When driving an automatic, I fiddle no more or less with other things than when I'm driving a manual. Having to move a stick or not rarely impacts my focus.

I will tell you what's distracting though. Holding a cup of hot coffee while trying to drive a manual in the city in a car with not much power and no cup holders and nowhere to safely wedge the cup so it doesn't spill. True story.

I've always found automatics slightly scary on hills, since they roll back and there's no real way to reverse this. A manual car, driven properly, will not roll back at all.

In an automatic on hill starts, I don't see why you can't put your left foot on the brake to hold the car while using your right foot to accelerate away, kind of like the accelerator pedal and clutch motion, except left foot is on the brake so you don't roll back.

Otherwise, use the same method that a lot of people use and hold and release the handbrake while they slip the clutch/give it some gas so the car doesn't roll back, except you don't have a clutch pedal.

Either way, I don't use the handbrake on hills. I'll just roll back a few inches while I release my clutch and be on my way. Oh well.

 

[synchromesh]

Manual > Automatic > CVT

 

[Jet Badger]

Well, by principle CVTs are far superior in the matter of keeping the power on the ground. I do not understand the hate for those.

 

[Skygrasper550]

Manual > Automatic > CVT

I don't quite get how CVTs work. I heard that it's banned in Formula 1 because being able to develop a viable F1 CVT would make the car overkill, but I don't really have an idea how they work in the real world.

 

[Legro]

Again it depends on what type of car the transmission is fitted in and what you'll be doing with it. I'm sure I don't need to explain why a manual Rolls Royce wouldn't be exactly right, but I'm also sure I don't need to say why an automatic transmission in a hot hatch isn't very fitting either. Sitting in a traffic jam and having to stop and start multiple times in a 3-lane motorway, will get very annoying in short time, and after a while of doing so your left leg gets tired if you have to operate clutch. But on a twisty country road in a high reving and well handling car, an automatic is in most cases much less fun than a manual.

I'm interested to see, what will happen to manuals when electric motor powered cars get more common and eventually replace the internal combustion in new cars, though.

 

[Jet Badger]

I'm interested to see, what will happen to manuals when electric motor powered cars get more common and eventually replace the internal combustion in new cars, though.

Same thing that will happen to contemporary automatics. Since electric motor driven cars need no sort of clutch, neither anything close to the amount of gears cars need now, they will be very much extinct in EVs.

 

[Pseudopod]

I've never been taught to use the handbrake for hill starts. I don't think it was even mentioned in any of my driving lessons.

I do kinda wish my car would automatically brake if I started going backwards in 1st gear though. I get kinda nervous when an expensive car is parked real close behind me.

 

[synchromesh]

I don't quite get how CVTs work. I heard that it's banned in Formula 1 because being able to develop a viable F1 CVT would make the car overkill, but I don't really have an idea how they work in the real world.

A CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission) has infinite ratios. The engine can be held at a lower RPM range for fuel economy or it can be held at a range where the engine makes peak power. It doesn't have gears as such. The reason I don't like them is because they are very boring in passenger cars. Some CVTs, like Nissan's XTronic system, imitates gears in sport mode but it's useless. That's the non-mechanical explanation.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

In an automatic on hill starts, I don't see why you can't put your left foot on the brake to hold the car while using your right foot to accelerate away, kind of like the accelerator pedal and clutch motion, except left foot is on the brake so you don't roll back.

I was told that this should not be done and would damage the torque converter, but I don't know how true that actually is.

It's tricky at first, but you get used to it. I actually enrolled in a driving school, and the instructor taught me how to do a hill start using only the foot brake. He refused to let me continue on until I got it right. I can still do it, but I just use the handbrake nowadays because it's easier.

Either way, I don't use the handbrake on hills. I'll just roll back a few inches while I release my clutch and be on my way. Oh well.

I've never been taught to use the handbrake for hill starts. I don't think it was even mentioned in any of my driving lessons.

I don't get this. Maybe it's different where you guys live, but in the UK if you can't do a hill start using the handbrake, without rolling back, you'll fail your driving test. Simple as that. I find it an easier and safer method, I don't get why anyone would ever choose not to use it.

 

[Skygrasper550]

A CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission) has infinite ratios.

You lost me right there.

The engine can be held at a lower RPM range for fuel economy

Uhmm, oooookkaaaaaayy...

or it can be held at a range where the engine makes peak power. It doesn't have gears as such.

This one I can relate to. I tried the Mazda Demio Sport in GT6, and to my surprise, it only has one gear but I found out that it always stays at the rpm where it's peak power. Then I looked it up and found out that the car uses a CVT. Do CVTs behave like that in real life?

The reason I don't like them is because they are very boring in passenger cars. Some CVTs, like Nissan's XTronic system, imitates gears in sport mode but it's useless. That's the non-mechanical explanation.

I think I can handle the mechanical explanation, since you already lost me at the infinite ratios part.

I don't get this. Maybe it's different where you guys live, but in the UK if you can't do a hill start using the handbrake, without rolling back, you'll fail your driving test. Simple as that. I find it an easier and safer method, I don't get why anyone would ever choose not to use it.

It's as you say; hill start with a handbrake is easy, that's why the instructor did't allow me to do a hill start using it. He told me to only use the foot brake. He was trying to get me to get used to doing the harder stuff, just for knowledge's sake. But don't get me wrong though, it didn't feel like as if it was a chore for me. I just took it in because I was just so excited at learning how to drive.

 

[synchromesh]

You lost me right there.



Uhmm, oooookkaaaaaayy...



This one I can relate to. I tried the Mazda Demio Sport in GT6, and to my surprise, it only has one gear but I found out that it always stays at the rpm where it's peak power. Then I looked it up and found out that the car uses a CVT. Do CVTs behave like that in real life?



I think I can handle the mechanical explanation, since you already lost me at the infinite ratios part.



It's as you say; hill start with a handbrake is easy, that's why the instructor did't allow me to do a hill start using it. He told me to only use the foot brake. He was trying to get me to get used to doing the harder stuff, just for knowledge's sake. But don't get me wrong though, it didn't feel like as if it was a chore for me. I just took it in because I was just so excited at learning how to drive.

Kinda. If you're driving a CVT to work, chances are you're not flooring it on a racetrack. So usually it's in a range (example: 2100 rpm) where the car's computer thinks it gets the best gas mileage. That's the main priority of a CVT.

 

[Pseudopod]

I was told that this should not be done and would damage the torque converter, but I don't know how true that actually is.




I don't get this. Maybe it's different where you guys live, but in the UK if you can't do a hill start using the handbrake, without rolling back, you'll fail your driving test. Simple as that. I find it an easier and safer method, I don't get why anyone would ever choose not to use it.

Idk. Feels like a chore to move my hand to the handbrake I guess. The amount of inches you go back really just depends on how much clutch you want to burn off . I also feel like my handbrake doesn't supply nearly as much brake power as my foot brake does, not without pulling it so hard that I'd break a sweat anyway

 

[synchromesh]

Idk. Feels like a chore to move my hand to the handbrake I guess. The amount of inches you go back really just depends on how much clutch you want to burn off . I also feel like my handbrake doesn't supply nearly as much brake power as my foot brake does, not without pulling it so hard that I'd break a sweat anyway

I only use the handbrake if there is someone (or something) directly behind me.

 

[Leggy1]

my ATV is a manual

Is it a Honda by any chance? I much prefer the manual transmission on Hondas to the far more common CVTs of most other ATVs.

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

I don't quite get how CVTs work. I heard that it's banned in Formula 1 because being able to develop a viable F1 CVT would make the car overkill, but I don't really have an idea how they work in the real world.

A CVT does what it says on the tin. "Constantly/Continuously Variable Transmission". It uses 2 variable diameter pulleys and a belt rather than gears to alter the gear ratio constantly with the ECU determining the most suitable engine RPM and gear ratio for the driving conditions at any given moment (meaning the throttle position, road speed etc.).

This means that if for example you want hard acceleration (accelerator pedal fully depressed) the engine RPM is held where it produces maximum power and the gear ratio is altered to increase the speed of the vehicle.

This is the most basic king anyway. There are many different ways of achieving a CVT.

 

[synchromesh]

Is it a Honda by any chance? I much prefer the manual transmission on Hondas to the far more common CVTs of most other ATVs.

I have a 2013 Suzuki Quadsport Z400 with a 5 speed manual. I prefer the clutch over my brother's YFZ.

And I agree, I don't like CVTs. Or the Polaris PVT.

 

[homeforsummer]

Nope, normal torque converter. It's possible that there was some engine braking, but not enough to slow the car noticeably. I'm used to being able to see a stop ahead on a clear road and use the engine and gearbox to gently lower the speed to around 15 mph, then apply the brakes. I couldn't do that on the Elantra; it would have taken far too long for the car to slow down. Additionally, when going down hills the car would continue to gain speed fairly rapidly even when in manual mode, unlike a manual which would only gain speed reasonably gently.

Having driven one like that on my last trip out there, I'd say it's more a case of never really revving high enough to experience engine braking and not deliberately downshifting.

It's second nature when driving a manual to downshift when you're slowing down, and you experience some engine braking. But if you brake in an auto, it won't change down until the revs are basically at idle. Try driving a manual and only downshifting at idle revs and see how much engine braking you feel - I suspect it won't be a lot.

Manually shifting down in an auto will induce some engine braking if you're doing so at higher revs than the auto would shift down itself. I had to do it a lot in the other vehicle (see avatar) I drove out there, because it was a big floppy boat with poor brakes and I didn't want to cook them. Changing down a gear, or two, ensured there was enough engine braking to slow me down hill.

Though lots of factors influence the level of engine braking you'll experience. Gearing, speed, etc.