FITT-Hot Hatch Tuning Challenge - Final Results are in!

[Bowtie-muscle]

your right i was blind. I wont finish today thats for sure. But i'll hold posting till your results are posted.

Don't want my score for you swayed by you not liking mine

 

[Pete05]

Don't want my score for you swayed by you not liking mine

I don't have a tune so I promise I'll be impartial .

The Scirocco wars

 

[brian wolf]

Not exactly, we now have a second tuner that has been banned, the fact that you are posting means that you have not been. We sometimes check profile pages to see if guys have been on and if discipline has been given by the mods. Cannot look at your profile page because you limit who can access, at first glance it appears as though yoou have been banned also. Just a little confusion we had to figure out after "interesting" events yesterday.

I`ll check my profile settings. I probably checked/unchecked something by accident. I Don`t want to be thought of as Mr Secretive!!

Just been reading what was said yesterday! I hate people who argue just for the sake of it.

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

I`ll check my profile settings. I probably checked/unchecked something by accident. I Don`t want to be thought of as Mr Secretive!!

Just been reading what was said yesterday! I hate people who argue just for the sake of it.

Sorry for the confusion, you are all good:tup:

 

[Otaliema]

Don't want my score for you swayed by you not liking mine

Don't worry man I write my reviews impartially, abs try and find the good things in all if them to point out, and only point the really bad parts that really hurt the tune. anyways yours did very well.

 

[Ronald6]

@backnfourth and anyone else who is interested in DC scores, here is my take:

Rank the car against its stock tune at that pp level. I try not to judge a car by other cars in the competition, but instead by how much the car is improved. Ive often thought, "This is as good as it gets!" Only to find an even better tune in a later car.

I have made the mistake in the past of raking cars in a competition against only Hot Lap ability. This was unfair and I wish I can go back and change it. IMHO if you can find any merit in a car then rank the car appropriately. Any explination a tester can give is helpful. Everyone has blindspots, testers help tuners find theirs.

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

Don't worry man I write my reviews impartially, abs try and find the good things in all if them to point out, and only point the really bad parts that really hurt the tune. anyways yours did very well.

SHHHHH......Don't say anything.....what I meant was, if I read it and yours was better, I don't want to subconsciously give you poor review to balance it out. I will be fair AND NON-BIASED, most likely harder on myself anyway

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

I`ll check my profile settings. I probably checked/unchecked something by accident. I Don`t want to be thought of as Mr Secretive!!

Just been reading what was said yesterday! I hate people who argue just for the sake of it.

Like I said, you're all good. But I hope you understand the confusion and accept the apology. I was actually sticking up for you.

 

[Otaliema]

SHHHHH......Don't say anything.....what I meant was, if I read it and yours was better, I don't want to subconsciously give you poor review to balance it out. I will be fair AND NON-BIASED, most likely harder on myself anyway

ok ok all I said was it did very good, didn't say if I liked it or not
And it's in a tuners nature to be harsher on their car and run it harder than everyone else's car. We are our own worst citric

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

Just trying to lighten the mood around here today and get back to having fun.

 

[brian wolf]

Like I said, you're all good. But I hope you understand the confusion and accept the apology. I was actually sticking up for you.

No apology needed I`ve changed my settings now and i appreciate you sticking up for the new guy!

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

No apology needed I`ve changed my settings now and i appreciate you sticking up for the new guy!

Still fairly new myself

 

[DigitalBaka]

@DigitalBaka - We've never had this before. It looks like both brian wolf and Bobby Steel have gotten banned from GTPlanet. Not sure what we should do. Should those tunes be removed from the list? Should we test anyway? The user could come back to the site and see how his tunes did, but would have no way to join the conversation.

Would you like to discuss here or in a PM with @Bowtie-muscle ?

Edit: brian wolf has set restricted access, but only has 9 posts to date all in this thread. brain are you still around?

An interesting situation. I'd say go ahead and test them. The tunes are still posted and anyone reading along now or later may want to know how they compare regardless of whether they can contact the tuner here. Obviously there would be no discussion about results but it is what it is. @brian wolf is still here so that's avoided but for future consideration I think once we have something posted within the rules it should be tested, if only for posterity.

Also, I like the way the transmission issue was handled. Well done @JujiroMatsuda finding the issue and @Bowtie-muscle giving a solution to the testers.

 

[DaBomm4]

SHHHHH......Don't say anything.....what I meant was, if I read it and yours was better, I don't want to subconsciously give you poor review to balance it out. I will be fair AND NON-BIASED, most likely harder on myself anyway

The way I have done testing in the past, when another tester submits results on the section I'm testing, I won't read it in detail until I finish my testing.

 

[Ronald6]

The way I have done testing in the past, when another tester submits results on the section I'm testing, I won't read it in detail until I finish my testing.

Ditto. 👍

 

[JujiroMatsuda]

The test result for Fito 1.4.

The scoring method I used, or I came up with, is below.

I scored the first car 5 regardless what I thought it should be. It will only be a base score and it's up to subsequent cars to either better it or get worse.

1. Is the car better than current best?
YES, score = 1 + best
NO, Go 2.
NEITHER, score = best.

2. Is the car better than 2nd best?
YES, score = between 1st and 2nd best.
NO, Go 3.
NEITHER, score = 2nd best.

3. Is the car better than 3rd best?
YES, score = between 2nd and 3rd best.
NO, Go 4.
NEITHER, score = 3rd best.

4. ...

and so on...

After all the testings been done, as DC ranking is established, I then reevaluated each DC points in genuine out of 10 score system.

Each car was tested for 5 laps. I don't usually do any better beyond 5 laps and first 2 laps were mere warm-up laps, figuring out the car's limit. I tend to do the best on lap 5 as general.

I used ABS=1 and everything else was off. ABS=0 fluctuates the performance consistency and I thought it's just not fair for each car since there are only 5 laps.

brian wolf
DC: 5

1 1.35.266
2 1.37.773 red lap
3 1.35.130
4 1.32.680
5 1.32.083

Best lap: 1.32.083

It's the first car to test with so this will be the basis score. The car drives really nice. It seems to rotate well, does pretty much what I'd expect it. I can only tell if this is a good car or not as I drive other tunes.


DaBomm4
DC: 4

1 1.33.125
2 1.33.510
3 1.32.931
4 1.32.098
5 1.33.025

Best lap 1.32.098

Very consistent car, it tells the driver the limit it can do and its rather articulate what it cant do. Amount of throttle I give it on corner exit will be the exact amount Id go wide closer to the edge strip. It had noticeable grip through twisty section, but had more pronounced understeer when lift off. A lot more tyre screech was heard as well throughout. Was genuinely surprised with its fastest lap time it gave me.


donpost
DC: 6

1 1.32.907
2 1.32.225 red lap
3 1.32.526
4 1.32.730
5 1.32.253

Best lap 1.32.253

Off the start I could feel the car has shorter gear ratio due to its higher rpm tuning combined with fixed 6speed PDs slack bug exploitation and its engine is more capped so I had to shift earlier, which made this car even more closer ratio car and I knew Id personally prefer such car. Much to my surprise, the lap time didnt reflect my personal preference. The car didnt have much issue on corner entry but didnt seem to rotate well as previous cars did, no apparent lift-off understeer. Very interesting and confusing, the feel of the speed and the lap time didnt match. But its a damn consistant car.


jules283
DC: 3

1 1.33.261
2 1.32.899
3 1.32.911
4 1.33.066
5 1.33.649

Best lap 1.32.899

It was hard to rotate the car underbraking, I used a lot of left foot braking while I throttle out to bring the nose towards corner exit and it worked very well. In fact, it was the only way to turn it around for many cases. The car couldnt quite fuse with me, its more of a personal preference I guess. The car was easy to drive and posed no threat and I couldnt think of it ever biting me, but while driving I couldnt help thinking there were lot left in the car that werent fully extracted. Well, I couldnt anyway.


krenkme
DC: 5.5

1 1.33.464
2 1.32.814
3 1.32.663
4 1.32.483
5 1.32.406

Best lap 1.32.406

Although I try as best as not to have personal favour on one over another, but as soon I saw those -ve toes I just grinned, "Oh this gona be gooood". As expected, great rotation. Because of those front -ve toes a more initial steering input was needed but as soon as the outside front clicked on optimal angle, the inside wheel pulled the nose inward as I opened the throttle. Through those twisty bits, vigorous steering work was needed to switch from one side to another. I personally liked the handling very much. However, the result wasnt quite what I thought it would be.


Ridox2JZGTE
DC: 3

1 1.34.602
2 1.34.200
3 1.33.023
4 1.33.614
5 1.33.343

Best lap 1.33.023

A lot of understeer, specially on corner entry so I had to steer in earlier. Lift off understeer was pronounced, I had to really kill the speed in order to let the car stay on line when that happened. Could not stay on 4th gear on that last right hander leading up to home straight, using 3rd yielded better result. On that left hander at the lowest altitude of this circuit, as I downshifted to 3rd the car tried to go straight off, I had to compromise a lot of speed in order to rotate the car and stay on the line. Perhaps the car was optimised for noABS. The more I steer in the more the car kinda jiggled, probably the LSD was locking up and the inside tyre was hopping off of the ground a bit? Rear tyres offered no contribution other than holding the car up - they were blue cold the whole time and the fronts were doing all the work.


shaunm80
DC: 3.5

1 1.33.231
2 1.33.504
3 1.32.456
4 1.32.792
5 1.32.538

Best lap 1.32.456

Smooth driving seemed to suit this car as it did not respond well transferring weight from one side to another. I had to really try to feel what the front outside tyre was doing. Drove well, no issue, not bad at all but not great either. Consistent for sure but what I did right or did wrong didnt really reflect on lap times and the lap I thought did well wasnt that good and the one I thought was less than mediocre turned out to be the best time. Hmmm....


xande1959
DC: 4

1 1.32.940
2 1.32.921
3 1.32.784
4 1.32.587
5 1.33.216

Best lap 1.32.587

As from DaBomm4s car, this too has all 0s on toes. More tyre screech was heard, felt good grip through twisty bits, shifting weight from side to side the car responded well and gripped. As soon as youre done with braking you have to get back on throttle (while still left foot braking) so just to pull the nose towards inside and I did exactly that as best as I could. Consistent car but lacked the knife edge sharpness to enable it to go beyond its limit. I could not see myself getting 32 flats. I certainly lacked the skill to extract more out of it anyway.


787bcgr
DC: 4

1 1.33.337
2 1.32.777
3 1.33.132
4 1.32.928
5 1.32.891

Best lap 1.32.777

By far the best sounding car of all, semi-racing exhaust turns this 4 cyclinder into a straight 6 sounding car.lol This certainly adds to my drivers preference point, makes driving more enjoyable. The handling was what I expected from all 0s tyre alignments. Lots of grip. The car had great corner entry, must be of loose LSD, so I could put the car where I wanted. But as I try to throttle the nose towards the corner exit it didnt do very well. The front couldnt drive it out of the ditch more or less. So once I cooked the corner and off the ideal line I could only lift off or brake and wait for the car get in line by itself. Otherwise the car felt pretty good.

Here are the reevaluated driver's choice scoring:

donpost 8
brian wolf 7.5
krenkme 7.5
DaBomm4 7
xande1959 6.5
787bcgr 6.5
shaunm80 6
jules283 5.5
Ridox2JZGTE 5.5

Fastest lap time top 3:
1. brian wolf 1.32.083
2. DaBomm4 1.32.098
3. donpost 1.32.253

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Ridox2JZGTE
DC: 3

1 1.34.602
2 1.34.200
3 1.33.023
4 1.33.614
5 1.33.343

Best lap 1.33.023

A lot of understeer, specially on corner entry so I had to steer in earlier. Lift off understeer was pronounced, I had to really kill the speed in order to let the car stay on line when that happened. Could not stay on 4th gear on that last right hander leading up to home straight, using 3rd yielded better result. On that left hander at the lowest altitude of this circuit, as I downshifted to 3rd the car tried to go straight off, I had to compromise a lot of speed in order to rotate the car and stay on the line. Perhaps the car was optimised for noABS. The more I steer in the more the car kinda jiggled, probably the LSD was locking up and the inside tyre was hopping off of the ground a bit? Rear tyres offered no contribution other than holding the car up - they were blue cold the whole time and the fronts were doing all the work.

I didn't sensed that much understeer when driving it, and yes, I never use ABS. The car turn in on all of the corners just fine, just have to use some lift off and trail braking, the car favors smooth steering. I guess it's just the case of driving style Thanks for reviewing the car.

If I may ask, what's your 1st sector time on the best lap ?

 

[JujiroMatsuda]

I didn't sensed that much understeer when driving it, and yes, I never use ABS. The car turn in on all of the corners just fine, just have to use some lift off and trail braking, the car favors smooth steering. I guess it's just the case of driving style Thanks for reviewing the car.

If I may ask, what's your 1st sector time on the best lap ?

Sorry to inform you that I did not check the sector times, I will rerun your car soon and try to score a similar time and get back to you. I only spent 3 laps and got that time so shouldn't be too difficult I imagine.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Sorry to inform you that I did not check the sector times, I will rerun your car soon and try to score a similar time and get back to you. I only spent 3 laps and got that time so shouldn't be too difficult I imagine.

No worries, I am just curious that's all, I did low 1:33s with 31s 1st sector The car do feel tight due to the high initial/preload on LSD. I should have lower it to 20 to make life easier on testers and tune the damper, toe and ARB for better rotation on entry and mid corner. I was just experimenting adapting my Autodelta 147 GTA replica suspension and LSD on this car

Your time is very quick, considering the tune 👍 If you are interested, feel free to try some of my 450PP FF cars on my garage, some of them have great praise for good rotation and one voted tune of the week ( J's Racing Fit RS Turbo, TODA Racing Civic Type R '08 and Del Sol SiR )

 

[Ronald6]

Two votes for tune of the week! Just for the same car.

 

[JujiroMatsuda]

No worries, I am just curious that's all, I did low 1:33s with 31s 1st sector The car do feel tight due to the high initial/preload on LSD. I should have lower it to 20 to make life easier on testers and tune the damper, toe and ARB for better rotation on entry and mid corner. I was just experimenting adapting my Autodelta 147 GTA replica suspension and LSD on this car

Your time is very quick, considering the tune 👍 If you are interested, feel free to try some of my 450PP FF cars on my garage, some of them have great praise for good rotation and one voted tune of the week ( J's Racing Fit RS Turbo, TODA Racing Civic Type R '08 and Del Sol SiR )

Did similar lap time, 1:32.973
31.9
38.1
22.8

Will do a nonABS now.

edit: noABS time 1:32.990
31.7
38.3
22.9

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Did similar lap time, 1:32.973
31.9
38.1
22.8

Will do a nonABS now.

The 1st sector is very close to mine 31.8s if I remember correctly, I guess I was slower on the last sector

Two votes for tune of the week! Just for the same car.

Thanks

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

@Otaliema @jules283 quick question on your Base Model tunes, what color did you paint the car(did you paint?) and what color rims? Also what number did you use? Strange I know but, trust me. @Motor City Hami what color were your rims?

@JujiroMatsuda nice job with testing and review:tup:

 

[jules283]

My GT24 is Monaco orange with white rims.
And car number is 1.

 

[Otaliema]

@Bowtie-muscle I didn't paint mine. And I don't recall which rooms I put on but they where not painted

 

[DolHaus]

Just an idea, might be helpful to put the stock transmission settings for the GT24 in the OP? Might save some trouble down the line

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

Only four to test so I have four GT24s, but will do later if I can. Good idea to help avoid issues @DolHaus

 

[brian wolf]

The test result for Fito 1.4.

The scoring method I used, or I came up with, is below.

I scored the first car 5 regardless what I thought it should be. It will only be a base score and it's up to subsequent cars to either better it or get worse.

1. Is the car better than current best?
YES, score = 1 + best
NO, Go 2.
NEITHER, score = best.

2. Is the car better than 2nd best?
YES, score = between 1st and 2nd best.
NO, Go 3.
NEITHER, score = 2nd best.

3. Is the car better than 3rd best?
YES, score = between 2nd and 3rd best.
NO, Go 4.
NEITHER, score = 3rd best.

4. ...

and so on...

After all the testings been done, as DC ranking is established, I then reevaluated each DC points in genuine out of 10 score system.

Each car was tested for 5 laps. I don't usually do any better beyond 5 laps and first 2 laps were mere warm-up laps, figuring out the car's limit. I tend to do the best on lap 5 as general.

I used ABS=1 and everything else was off. ABS=0 fluctuates the performance consistency and I thought it's just not fair for each car since there are only 5 laps.

brian wolf
DC: 5

1 1.35.266
2 1.37.773 red lap
3 1.35.130
4 1.32.680
5 1.32.083

Best lap: 1.32.083

It's the first car to test with so this will be the basis score. The car drives really nice. It seems to rotate well, does pretty much what I'd expect it. I can only tell if this is a good car or not as I drive other tunes.


DaBomm4
DC: 4

1 1.33.125
2 1.33.510
3 1.32.931
4 1.32.098
5 1.33.025

Best lap 1.32.098

Very consistent car, it tells the driver the limit it can do and its rather articulate what it cant do. Amount of throttle I give it on corner exit will be the exact amount Id go wide closer to the edge strip. It had noticeable grip through twisty section, but had more pronounced understeer when lift off. A lot more tyre screech was heard as well throughout. Was genuinely surprised with its fastest lap time it gave me.


donpost
DC: 6

1 1.32.907
2 1.32.225 red lap
3 1.32.526
4 1.32.730
5 1.32.253

Best lap 1.32.253

Off the start I could feel the car has shorter gear ratio due to its higher rpm tuning combined with fixed 6speed PDs slack bug exploitation and its engine is more capped so I had to shift earlier, which made this car even more closer ratio car and I knew Id personally prefer such car. Much to my surprise, the lap time didnt reflect my personal preference. The car didnt have much issue on corner entry but didnt seem to rotate well as previous cars did, no apparent lift-off understeer. Very interesting and confusing, the feel of the speed and the lap time didnt match. But its a damn consistant car.


jules283
DC: 3

1 1.33.261
2 1.32.899
3 1.32.911
4 1.33.066
5 1.33.649

Best lap 1.32.899

It was hard to rotate the car underbraking, I used a lot of left foot braking while I throttle out to bring the nose towards corner exit and it worked very well. In fact, it was the only way to turn it around for many cases. The car couldnt quite fuse with me, its more of a personal preference I guess. The car was easy to drive and posed no threat and I couldnt think of it ever biting me, but while driving I couldnt help thinking there were lot left in the car that werent fully extracted. Well, I couldnt anyway.


krenkme
DC: 5.5

1 1.33.464
2 1.32.814
3 1.32.663
4 1.32.483
5 1.32.406

Best lap 1.32.406

Although I try as best as not to have personal favour on one over another, but as soon I saw those -ve toes I just grinned, "Oh this gona be gooood". As expected, great rotation. Because of those front -ve toes a more initial steering input was needed but as soon as the outside front clicked on optimal angle, the inside wheel pulled the nose inward as I opened the throttle. Through those twisty bits, vigorous steering work was needed to switch from one side to another. I personally liked the handling very much. However, the result wasnt quite what I thought it would be.


Ridox2JZGTE
DC: 3

1 1.34.602
2 1.34.200
3 1.33.023
4 1.33.614
5 1.33.343

Best lap 1.33.023

A lot of understeer, specially on corner entry so I had to steer in earlier. Lift off understeer was pronounced, I had to really kill the speed in order to let the car stay on line when that happened. Could not stay on 4th gear on that last right hander leading up to home straight, using 3rd yielded better result. On that left hander at the lowest altitude of this circuit, as I downshifted to 3rd the car tried to go straight off, I had to compromise a lot of speed in order to rotate the car and stay on the line. Perhaps the car was optimised for noABS. The more I steer in the more the car kinda jiggled, probably the LSD was locking up and the inside tyre was hopping off of the ground a bit? Rear tyres offered no contribution other than holding the car up - they were blue cold the whole time and the fronts were doing all the work.


shaunm80
DC: 3.5

1 1.33.231
2 1.33.504
3 1.32.456
4 1.32.792
5 1.32.538

Best lap 1.32.456

Smooth driving seemed to suit this car as it did not respond well transferring weight from one side to another. I had to really try to feel what the front outside tyre was doing. Drove well, no issue, not bad at all but not great either. Consistent for sure but what I did right or did wrong didnt really reflect on lap times and the lap I thought did well wasnt that good and the one I thought was less than mediocre turned out to be the best time. Hmmm....


xande1959
DC: 4

1 1.32.940
2 1.32.921
3 1.32.784
4 1.32.587
5 1.33.216

Best lap 1.32.587

As from DaBomm4s car, this too has all 0s on toes. More tyre screech was heard, felt good grip through twisty bits, shifting weight from side to side the car responded well and gripped. As soon as youre done with braking you have to get back on throttle (while still left foot braking) so just to pull the nose towards inside and I did exactly that as best as I could. Consistent car but lacked the knife edge sharpness to enable it to go beyond its limit. I could not see myself getting 32 flats. I certainly lacked the skill to extract more out of it anyway.


787bcgr
DC: 4

1 1.33.337
2 1.32.777
3 1.33.132
4 1.32.928
5 1.32.891

Best lap 1.32.777

By far the best sounding car of all, semi-racing exhaust turns this 4 cyclinder into a straight 6 sounding car.lol This certainly adds to my drivers preference point, makes driving more enjoyable. The handling was what I expected from all 0s tyre alignments. Lots of grip. The car had great corner entry, must be of loose LSD, so I could put the car where I wanted. But as I try to throttle the nose towards the corner exit it didnt do very well. The front couldnt drive it out of the ditch more or less. So once I cooked the corner and off the ideal line I could only lift off or brake and wait for the car get in line by itself. Otherwise the car felt pretty good.

Here are the reevaluated driver's choice scoring:

donpost 8
brian wolf 7.5
krenkme 7.5
DaBomm4 7
xande1959 6.5
787bcgr 6.5
shaunm80 6
jules283 5.5
Ridox2JZGTE 5.5

Fastest lap time top 3:
1. brian wolf 1.32.083
2. DaBomm4 1.32.098
3. donpost 1.32.253

Excellent work with the testing and reviews @JujiroMatsuda. Is it possible to have a more detailed review of my tune as you tested mine first? No probs if you cant, just looking for more detailed feedback.

 

[JujiroMatsuda]

Excellent work with the testing and reviews @JujiroMatsuda. Is it possible to have a more detailed review of my tune as you tested mine first? No probs if you cant, just looking for more detailed feedback.

Yeah sure, it was my first car I tested, the first FF car I driven since Renault Clio seasonal TT event, which I driven only 2 laps, got gold and got out and never came back to, the first FF car I driven more than 4 laps EVER in GT5 or 6 (I remember now that I did spend about 400km worth of driving for Scirocco TT event awhile back and that was then the most ever I had driven an FF car) and I just didn't know what to expect, what it's like to drive an FF car so I really couldn't tell whether it was good or bad.

Your car happened out to be the best/fastest car of the lot, on the very first test - what are the chances of that? So basically the rest of the cars were on catch up mode.

Your car had great stability, great grip, great rotation and excellent corner entry. I always preferred 7/7 ARB setting and I use it most of the time on my own tunes. That might have contributed in my favour as I'm used to that handling. The handling response on fronts were great, equal grip from all 4 tyres, no rolling and as I throttled out the fronts towards corner exit, both front tyres were firmly planted and had traction to drive it out. Due to +ve toes at the front the steering input was needed less, it doesn't mean the car has any better rotation, but the outside front found optimal angle slip earlier, which helped on twisty bits as I didn't need to steer as much from side to side.

krenkme's car, IMO, had the best toe settings but that soft front sway bar killed its potential. The front rolled a lot, and inside tyre lifted up and lacked the traction so I couldn't drive out the nose inward.

The best possible car, I would imagine, is suspension & LSD setting of brian wolf's, toe settings of krenkme's and engine and gearbox of donpost's. That would make me able to break into 30s I reckon.

 

[brian wolf]

Yeah sure, it was my first car I tested, the first FF car I driven since Renault Clio seasonal TT event, which I driven only 2 laps, got gold and got out and never came back to, the first FF car I driven more than 4 laps EVER in GT5 or 6 and I just didn't know what to expect, what it's like to drive an FF car so I really couldn't tell whether it was good or bad.

Your car happened out to be the best/fastest car of the lot, on the very first test - what are the chances of that? So basically the rest of the cars were on catch up mode.

Your car had great stability, great grip, great rotation and excellent corner entry. I always preferred 7/7 ARB setting and I use it most of the time on my own tunes. That might have contributed in my favour as I'm used to that handling. The handling response on fronts were great, equal grip from all 4 tyres, no rolling and as I throttled out the fronts towards corner exit, both front tyres were firmly planted and had traction to drive it out. Due to +ve toes at the front the steering input was needed less, it doesn't mean the car has any better rotation, but the outside front found optimal angle slip earlier, which helped on twisty bits as I didn't need to steer as much from side to side.

krenkme's car, IMO, had the best toe settings but that soft front sway bar killed its potential. The front rolled a lot, and inside tyre lifted up and lacked the traction so I couldn't drive out the nose inward.

The best possible car, I would imagine, is suspension setting of brian wolf's, toe settings of krenkme's and engine and gearbox of donpost's. That would make me able to break into 30s I reckon.

Thanks for more detail, much appreciated! I used the 7/7 ARB settings cos i left the ride height quite high cos of the nasty curbs at Autumn Ring. I found it quicker to ride them than to avoid them. I`ll give that `hybrid` car you suggest a go later!
Cheers again
BW