FITT Old Vs. New Hatchback Challenge

Which pair of cars is the best looking of the bunch?

  • Fiat 500 F '65 and 500 1.2 8V Lounge SS '08

    Votes: 14 23.0%

  • Ford Focus ST170 '03 and ST '13

    Votes: 12 19.7%

  • Honda Civic 1500 3 door 25i '83 and Civic Type R (EP) '04

    Votes: 6 9.8%

  • Honda CRX SiR '90 and CR-Z @ '10

    Votes: 5 8.2%

  • Honda Life Step Van '72 and Odyssey '03

    Votes: 3 4.9%

  • Mini Cooper 1.3i '98 and Cooper S '11

    Votes: 6 9.8%

  • Peugeot 206 S16 '99 and 207 GTi '07

    Votes: 5 8.2%

  • VW Golf I Gti '76 and Golf Gti '05

    Votes: 10 16.4%
  • Total voters
    61
Motor City Hami

Motor City Hami

4,803
United States
Dearborn, MI
MotorCtyHamilton
FITT Old & New Hatchback Tuner Challenge
Hosted by Keith “Motor City” Hamilton

I have had this idea for a while, way back in the first month of GT5. I thought it would be a nice addition to the tuning garage to do reviews of an original car and its most current update. Well, I wrote a couple reviews but lost interest… well… ran out of time, really, as there were so many physics changes to keep up with in GT5. So, since I seem to lack the ability to add old vs. new car reviews to my garage, let us turn it into a FITT tuning competition for the community. I am finding it extremely fun to drive the old and new versions and compare the differences. I will likely tune more of these after this competition is complete, just to extend the fun.

Eligible Cars

Fiat 500 F '65 and 500 1.2 8V Lounge SS '08

16661863544_605aaa359e_z.jpg



Ford Focus ST170 '03 and ST '13

17284317645_3aa7f149e4_z.jpg



Honda Civic 1500 3 door 25i '83 and Civic Type R (EP) '04

16661862884_5981479f3d_z.jpg



Honda CRX SiR '90 and CR-Z @ '10

17096548128_306d8fd350_z.jpg



Honda Life Step Van '72 and Odyssey '03

17258365306_79354612ec_z.jpg



Mini Cooper 1.3i '98 and Cooper S '11

17282506212_c671ab6bf7_z.jpg



Peugeot 206 S16 '99 and 207 GTi '07

17096547468_0ed3e95c3c_z.jpg



VW Golf I Gti '76 and Golf Gti '05

16661862134_f89875b25b_z.jpg
 
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Specs

Old Hatchback
No oil changes
No body rigidity
No engine overhaul
No aero parts
Custom wheels standard size only
Fully customizable suspension kit
Standard brakes only
Fully customizable transmission
Fully customizable LSD
Standard cutch & flywheel
All power parts allowed
No Nitrous Oxide
Full power limiting allowed
All weight reduction parts allowed
Full use of ballast allowed

Fiat 500 F '65 - Sport Hard Tires 450 PP
Ford Focus ST170 '03 - Comfort Soft Tires 400 PP
Honda Civic 1500 3 door 25i '83 - Comfort Soft Tires 415 PP
Honda CRX SiR '90 - Comfort Soft Tires 410 PP
Mini Cooper 1.3i '98 - Sport Hard Tires 425 PP
Peugeot 206 S16 '99 - Comfort Soft Tires 410 PP
VW Golf I Gti '76 - Sport Hard Tires 385 PP
Honda Life Step Van '72 - Sport Soft Tires 421 PP and Oil Change

New Hatchback
450 PP
Comfort Soft Tires
No oil changes
No body rigidity
No engine overhaul
Front aero parts allowed
Custom wheels standard size only
Fully customizable suspension kit
Racing brakes allowed
Fully customizable transmission
Fully customizable LSD
Triple-plate cutch & flywheel allowed
Standard drive shaft only
Torque-distributing center differential allowed
All power parts allowed
No Nitrous Oxide
Full power limiting allowed
All weight reduction parts allowed
Full use of ballast allowed

Track and Test Driving

Monaco Cote d' Azur 2.08 miles
Arcade Mode Single Player Time Trial
Grip Reduction Real
Suggest running 10 laps with each car to find the single fastest lap. A bit of honesty will be needed from the test drivers at Monaco. A touch of a wall, not a slam, but an honest touch that does not help the lap time is ok if applied in the same manor to all cars tested. And, after the tunnel at the Nouvelle Chicane, please take special care to take a very consistent line through this section with all cars. The only rule that we can apply is that two wheels can cross the curbing. If all four wheels touch the curbing in any way, the lap must be considered red.

Please report all lap times and driver’s choice results in either a single post containing all results from both 400 PP and 450 PP or two posts, one for each individual car group. Either choice is fine. I will create a Google doc and keep the scores updated regularly.

FITT Rules

General FITT rules:https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...-tuners-and-test-drivers.291311/#post-9017285

Deadlines:
Tunes are due Wednesday, May 13 at midnight, wherever midnight is in your part of the planet. I tend to wake up around 6:30 am Eastern Standard Time so pretty much have your tune posted before I get to the computer on Monday morning.

Tuners can post early tunes to the thread. Once they are ready for test drivers to start with their tune, tuners should add a line to the tune post saying "Complete - ok to test." Once that phrase is posted under your tune, no changes will be allowed. I will take a screen grab of each tune once that line of copy is posted to it.

Test driver results are due Sunday, June 14th at midnight, wherever midnight is in your part of the planet. Testing is to be done in time trial mode using ABS1 and grip reduction set to real. Please post your results and feedback within this forum.

Scoring:

Fastest lap calculations - A maximum of 10 points can be earned from lap times. The tune with the fastest average lap time across all testers will earn 10 points. All other tunes will earn their score based upon how close their average lap time is to the fastest tune. For example, if the fastest tune earned the average lap time of 1:21.688 and the 2nd fastest tune equates to 1:21.832, the 2nd place tune receives 9.982 points (1:21.688 converted to seconds is 81.688 divided by 1:21.832 converted to seconds is 81.832 *10 = 9.982). Another example, if the fastest tune earned the average lap time of 1:21.688 and the slowest tune equates to 1:27.271, the slowest tune receives 9.360 points (121.688 converted to seconds is 81.688 divided by 127.271 converted to seconds is 87.271 *10 = 9.360). This method of scoring rewards tunes for being very close to the front and will keep the lap time portion of the competition very close.

Driver's choice - Each tester will score each tune on the scale listed below. Driver's choice scores will then be averaged across all testers. The maximum number of DC points that can be earned is ten points. Please choose driver's choice on a scale of 0.0 to 10.0.

Driver's choice scale:
10.0 among the best tunes you have driven in GT6
7 to 9 a great tune that could be a little faster if...
4 to 6 a good tune that needs a few adjustments to become a contender
Under 4 a tune that needs work (please be specific with feedback with any tunes listed here)

Final Scores – Cars are selected as a pair. Lap times will be added together between the two cars for calculation of the overall winner. The same method will be used for Driver’s Choice. There will be separate winners for fast lap and driver’s choice.
 
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Final Results

All test results updated. Lap times are on tab one and Driver's Choice are on tab two. Results for old car are in the top box, for the new car in the middle box and total results in the bottom box on each tab.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h4N1jDCjSmsDU6LZzZumzhC6zRvCgLNauBWGGcZY7xM/edit?usp=sharing

Lap Time Podium:
1st - @Otaliema in the Mini Coopers
2nd - @Motor City Hami in the VW Golfs
3rd - @Bowtie-muscle in the Honda Civics

Honorable Mentions:
- The fastest old car was @Otaliema's Mini Cooper
- The fastest new car was @Bowtie-muscle's 2004 Civic Type R
- The fastest combined lap time of 226.654 seconds was run by @coryclifford with @Otaliema's Coopers
- @brian wolf missed the lap time podium by only 0.140 seconds
- @DolHaus missed the lap time podium by only 0.160 seconds


Driver's Choice Podium:
1st - @Motor City Hami in the VW Golfs
2nd -@Otaliema in the Mini Coopers
3rd - @coryclifford in the Honda Civics (not bad for his first ever FITT competition)

Honorable Mentions:
- @CSLACR missed the driver's choice podium by only 0.9 points
- @shaunm80 missed the driver's choice podium by only 1.1 points

Tens are not easy to come by. When a tester gives out a ten, it means that they thought the car was perfect for them. Seven tunes received a ten in this competition. I encourage everyone to take a peek inside these tunes and drive them to understand why these are so special.
- @krenkme in the Honda Life Step Van '72
- @Motor City Hami received two in the VW Golf I GTi '76
- @coryclifford received two in the Honda Civic Type R '04
- @Motor City Hami in the VW Golf V GTi '05
- @Otaliema in the Mini Cooper S '11

Thanks
First, thank you to all of the test drivers. I love this concept of old and new, but I did not anticipate how many tuners loved it too. Sorry for the enormous number of laps that you had to drive at Monaco. For those of you who test drove, you were exposed to a wide range of tuning styles. I hope that you picked up a few ideas to try in your future tuning.

Second, thank you for all of the tuners. I viewed every setup and there were some very creative approaches. Though I was not able to complete my testing in time, there are quite a few cars that I want to go back and drive again.

Lastly, thank you for your patience as my free time got swallowed up by life this past month. I don't know how much I will be around GT Planet over the summer months because the SCCA schedule is now in full swing. I have data to add to the car this week so I cannot wait to start getting track maps, driver inputs, air fuel data all overlapped with video.

Thanks again. I appreciate the community element of FITT more than I can express.

Keith
 
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Brewguy44
Umm, There is something wrong here :odd: :D :lol: Can you find it???
Click to expand...

You test drivers are already late!

I am just getting to test out the car pairings and car choice is more difficult than I thought it would be. I have one 400 PP car that I just love, and a couple of 450 PP cars that are just fantastic, but no pair is perfect yet.

And, I am really happy with the track choice. What a fun track at these PP levels. The track is forcing choices. Do you go light weight for super quick direction changes in the multiple twisty sections or do you go for power to pull the thing up the big hill? And what happens between manual and automatic. Lot's of opportunity here to have very different builds both work to gain fast lap times.
 
Lionheart2113
No aero parts on the 400pp? Well 🤬 ...so much for putting a parachute on the back to keep the rear end from flying away on that animal!:lol::lol:
Guess I'll have to make some minor adjustments.:ouch:
:cheers:
Click to expand...
It depends which animal you decide to tune. One of the 400pp cars is certain to be a pocket rocket. Just a case of finding out which one. April car of the month was quite handy for finding low pop cars which can punch well above their weight.
 
Is it allowed to speak about tuning status and lap times where it goes during tuning?
Allowed to post test lap videos? (Made during tuning process)
 
OdeFinn
Is it allowed to speak about tuning status and lap times where it goes during tuning?
Allowed to post test lap videos? (Made during tuning process)
Click to expand...
Discussions about lap times are sometimes held but the majority of tuners keep our cards fairly close to our chest on that one. I have never seen a test lap video oosted before but that would be interesting.. Certainly if you are quick, we could pick up a few tips too :)
 
DolHaus
I look forward to the contest but FF's are my weakest area so I don't know if I'll be much of a threat :lol:
Click to expand...

Results from Focus Challenge:

Lap Time Winners:
1st @@Lionheart2113 1:01.2796 average
2nd @@DolHaus 1:01.2804 average
3rd @@787bcgr 101.352 average

Driver's Choice:
1st @@Motor City Hami 9.1 point average
2nd @@Bowtie-muscle 8.7 average
3rd @@DolHaus 8.6 average

Ye'ah... your past performance in FF really shows the weakness. :lol:
 
Motor City Hami
Results from Focus Challenge:

Lap Time Winners:
1st @@Lionheart2113 1:01.2796 average
2nd @@DolHaus 1:01.2804 average
3rd @@787bcgr 101.352 average

Driver's Choice:
1st @@Motor City Hami 9.1 point average
2nd @@Bowtie-muscle 8.7 average
3rd @@DolHaus 8.6 average

Ye'ah... your past performance in FF really shows the weakness. :lol:
Click to expand...
To be fair, that was a few challenges ago. With every challenge that passes, the newer trophies get put in front of the previous, so the Ford ones are a few rows back...
 
OdeFinn
Nope, just bought car, tested, tuned and it's ready. Never before had this car.
Click to expand...
Speaking from experience its always worth continuing to work on the car if you can spare the time, first draft tunes can do ok but you stand a much better chance if you spend some time checking it can't be faster if setup in a different way 👍

Lionheart2113
Did you forget the Ford challenge already mate?:dopey:
Click to expand...
shaunm80
I like it. Play down your chances before you create an FF monster that goes and destroys us all. I like your style :)
Click to expand...
Motor City Hami
Results from Focus Challenge:

Lap Time Winners:
1st @@Lionheart2113 1:01.2796 average
2nd @@DolHaus 1:01.2804 average
3rd @@787bcgr 101.352 average

Driver's Choice:
1st @@Motor City Hami 9.1 point average
2nd @@Bowtie-muscle 8.7 average
3rd @@DolHaus 8.6 average

Ye'ah... your past performance in FF really shows the weakness. :lol:
Click to expand...
In fairness that one was a surprise to me, the car never felt particularly quick, I wasn't looking at my own times compared to others and thinking "I can beat that" :lol:
 
DolHaus
Speaking from experience its always worth continuing to work on the car if you can spare the time, first draft tunes can do ok but you stand a much better chance if you spend some time checking it can't be faster if setup in a different way 👍
Click to expand...

True, after gearbox is done or "ok", I'll do some fine tuning on springs, maybe bit on LSD, but pretty much it's ready, maybe I'll fix younger brother to same point before fixing older more.

@Motor City Hami, "Triple-plate cutch & flywheel allowed" - also double allowed?
 
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