FITT Race Car Tuner Challenge

[Motor City Hami]

Seems to have a mistake in the 500PP spreadsheet, case H8 , writen 2.29.816 in the way of 229.816 !!!????

Time for your car Hami - Done for today (Most likely). Will resume with Onboy tomorrow.

Edit: Ren's time is wrong in the spreadsheet. It's suppose to be 1:39.883

Thank you for catching. Updated.

Test post updated. Should have finished initial round, but started too late; Johnny and myself to go.

Thank you for testing. Two cars left and drivers choice.

 

[C-ZETA]

C-ZETA (PSN: V16T91)
Slacking on their friend requests.

No I'm not...I have both of your accounts. Unless you're using another one for this.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Test post updated. Should have finished initial round, but started too late; Johnny and myself to go.

I see you saved the best for last...good for you:tup:👍

 

[ugabugaz]

Resuming testing in 10m or so...I'll get you added CSL. Added "CSLACR"

Edit:

Onboy done - 1:40.577

Riddox done - 1:41.693

 

[Motor City Hami]

Crap, do I have alot of cars to test this weekend.

Another thought looking at the 500PP class. The S2000s and a Toyota are dominating the 500PP group. There are 16 total cars to test and a Sunday deadling coming at us fast. With four testers seemingly not started yet and one half way through, I had an off the wall idea.

Thinking about splitting the 500PP clas into two groups.
Group A: All of the S2000s and XD's Toyota (7 cars).
Group B: The remainder of the field (9 cars).

Testers short on time could pick one set to test. Just trying to avoid any last minute time issues. It's easier to bang out 8 cars in a couple of nights than it is to do 16.

Thoughts?

It would look like this...

Group A - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Akr4MBOtjOcqdHFQWUpfOVVIR2taVDRGN3VnXzhUeHc

Group B - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Akr4MBOtjOcqdGtRRVNmRzhUTWh1R2R0RHRqTEJvOVE

 

[XDesperado67]

Oh yeah stick me in with that school of piranhas! Go ahead Leave me at Thermopylae by myself to face the Persian Immortals!

 

[Motor City Hami]

Sorry. Didn't share those correctly. Try the links again.

And XD, I would feel for you if you weren't walking all over them right now with a perfect score of 11.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Official 625PP Testing Post.


9) Riddox's Lexus 1:40.693

What a weird car this is. I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but it is what it is. First up the brakes, the most controversial part of the car. Actually I didn't mind them one bit, and actually enjoyed smoking the front under heavy braking. Call me weird but it felt a bit more, realistic? Anyway, Like the brakes . Next up the transmission - Set up very well and the 8th gear actually surprised me (Thought I'd top out in 7th on straightaway). Felt really..luxurious having 8 gears to play with, even if I ran Auto. The car also put down its power pretty well as well. I'm afraid the positives end here. I don't know what was wrong with the car, whether it was the LSD or Suspension but something felt really off with the way the car stuck to the track. It just felt rough, felt like I had to seriously slam the car into corners to make it work. The smoothness other cars have on this track, this car lacks. I would suggest a look at the dampers or perhaps raising the car a bit. Sorry, I can only give this car...

Also, Brake point at least for me at the first chicane was probably the 175M mark.
Replay saved if you want me to upload it.

Driveable

Thank you, thank you for the fast lap time and the great in depth review of my car

About the rough feeling, that you need to slam the car into corners, yeah, I did put positive toe at the front to help turn in, but the car will need aggressive out in out technique and trail braking to minimize understeer, the car also running very low ride height and low rear aero to help reach the high top speed ( but it did not bottom out as I make sure of that when tuning - enabling the tire load indicator ) I will look into the damper About the replay, yeah, you could upload it, that would be great, I want to compare braking points and learn how to get faster lap times

 

[robrabbitman]

My car will be offline while I break it in. I'm sorry to all who this has inconvenienced, but now I can get my B-Spec drivers to break it in for me.

 

[CSLACR]

@ C-Zeta - yeah im a dummy.
Uga - added you so i could test but its not the one im hosting from and it seems your friend list is full now

Btw im not behind on testing, im just fashionably late.

 

[ugabugaz]

@ C-Zeta - yeah im a dummy.
Uga - added you so i could test but its not the one im hosting from and it seems your friend list is full now

Btw im not behind on testing, im just fashionably late.

Ah shoot, I was wondering which CSL I should add..Uhh, I might have you on my secondary maybe? Anyway, Can I just delete the one I added, and add your other account?

 

[robrabbitman]

My car is back on share, fully broken in, with a new paintjob as well.

 

[CSLACR]

Ah shoot, I was wondering which CSL I should add..Uhh, I might have you on my secondary maybe? Anyway, Can I just delete the one I added, and add your other account?

Yeah that'll work fine. 👍

 

[CSLACR]

For reference, this is what I mean when I say over steer on entry and under steer on exit.
Not pointing this car or tune out specifically, it's a "review" I've given a lot of cars over time.
Demo lap - not an official result.




BTW, I'll be testing with AT due to an unfortunate twist of events. (Something f'd between wheel/PS3)

 

[ugabugaz]

Yeah that'll work fine. 👍

Did the swap.

 

[Motor City Hami]

For reference, this is what I mean when I say over steer on entry and under steer on exit.

This is directly due to the differences between wheel and DS3. I tune with both. My wheel doesn't have a permanent space in our home so if I am only going to play for a short time, I won't dig the wheel out of the closet.

With the DS3, it is difficult to get cars to turn in down to the apex. It's like the programming doesn't allow the steering to go to full lock. With the wheel, if you turn too far, you will just burn the front tires off the car. It is rare that I have seen the same effect with the DS3.

The differences between tunes for me is that with DS3 I do everything I can to get the car down to the apex. This means LSD Decel around 5 or 7, brake balance higher to the rear, higher rear ARB settings and aggressive differences in front/rear spring rates. With my G27, my tunes will have LSD Decel around 12 or 15, more even brake balance and ARBs.

There is definately a difference. I am about the same speed with wheel and DS3, but the DS3 definately needs some help with corner entry and slow, smooth movements.

 

[Motor City Hami]

FITT Race Car Tuner Challenge – 625PP Testing
DS3, ABS1, grip reduction real, all other aids off

MotorCtyHamilton - Ford GT LM Spec II Test Car – 139.795 - Outstanding

ACSR421 - Ford GT LM Spec II Test Car – Outstanding – 140.106
I like this tune as much as I like my own tune for this car. This isn’t surprising since I have liked every tune that I have driven from ACSR. This is a tune that you can just push. From lap one, it is behaved enough that you can just start searching for the line and digging for speed. The only thing that I think the car needs is a bit more speed. I took a bigger risk on aero (min/min) and ballast and I think that’s the biggest difference. Nice tune.

Johnnypenso - Dodge Viper GTS-R Team Oreca Race Car – 140.125 - Outstanding
Good handling without relying too heavily on aero. I might have tried more ballast (1175kg), no turbo and 100% on the power limiter. That would have given the car 616 hp vs. the tune entry at 596 hp.

krenkme - BMW M3 GTR Race Car '01 – 141.052 – Outstanding
How can this car have 678hp, weight less than the Ford GTs and not pull as hard down the straights? This must be PD programming. Great tune Krenkme. I like the handling, but I think I would have traded some of the aero for weight to see if top speed would increase.

C-ZETA - Citroën GT by Citroën Race Car - 141.110 - Outstanding
Wow. This is a perfect handling tune. I could drive this car all day. Can I keep it? I only want to change one thing – paint it obnoxiously bright green. I think that this may be the only 625PP car that used max aero. With PP racing, I think compromising some of that aero into horsepower may have made this car more lap time competitive at Monza?

XDesperado67 - BMW M3 GTR Race Car '01 – 141.195 – Outstanding
Great tune. Almost as fast as Krenkme’s BMW. I just couldn’t get the jump off of the low gear corners like I could with Krenkme’s . That’s the only thing that held me back from getting that last tenth to match.

ugabugaz - Pagani Zonda LM Race Car – 1:41.382 - Driveable
I like everything about this car except for the LSD. It is pretty easy to get outside wheel spin on exit. The LSD accel setting is already pretty low at 14, but I would have tested one, two or three clicks lower.

Onboy123 - Chevrolet Camaro LM Race Car – 1:41.581 – Outstanding
One of the best handling Onboy tunes that I have driven. I gave this tune an outstanding rating for the handling, but it was a close call to getting the rating Driveable. There just isn’t enough power/speed to crank the lower lap times. I think you should have sacrificed all downforce for speed at Monza. Removing all of the aero allows for horse power to increase from 623 to 664.

CSLACR - Corvette C5-R (C5) ’00 – 141.709 – Outstanding
This is an awesome handling car, but need to give back all of that aero to stand a chance at Monza.

Ridox2JZGTE (PSN: GTP_Orido) - Lexus IS-F RM – 142.485 - Driveable
I know that you prefer the authenticity of ABS 0, but for me, this is just a video game and not a real driving simulator. At ABS 0, I kept locking up the fronts and would have produced really slow lap times and not a fair comparison to the other entries. So I tested using ABS 1. Even with ABS 1 it is too easy to lock up the front brakes. I do believe that PD programmed the brake balance to equate higher numbers to more stopping power. When we did the rally challenge on dirt, I noticed that PD cut the engine noise when the brakes locked. On tarmac they added tire squeal sounds, but I don’t think they knew what to do for dirt, so they just made the engine stop. I couldn’t run anything above 4 on the brakes or I would get lock up. I also tested a 400PP Miata on sport hard tires on the Top Gear test track. 8/10 produced the shortest stopping distance for that car/tire combination because the brake power didn’t exceed the tire grip against the speed and mass. With heavier, faster cars, anything above 7 produced wheel lock up. I have no clue how you drove your tune at all with ABS 0 and bias at 10/8, let alone drove it fast.

The handling on this tune was pretty good. It corners well, with no real bad habits. There might be a little more to gain in the gearbox. I love that the Lexus has eight gears, but I think you made this into a six speed box with the settings. I’m not sure if this would be better or not, but I would have tested gear spacing that looks opposite of your current settings. Right now, the lower gears are closer together and the higher gears are further apart. Test the opposite and see if there would be any gain.

Overall, a good tune that I am happy for the opportunity to drive.

Ealirendur - Mazda RX-7 LM Race Car – 1:42.506 – no DC bonus
Lots of outside wheel spin. Recommend lowering LSD accel. I couldn’t get this car to power off the corner very strongly. A taller 1st and 2nd gear may also help reduce wheel spin? The car also feels a bit spongy, the nose darts around a bit. Couldn’t really identify in the tune what could be causing this.

 

[XDesperado67]

@MCH Thanks for the test and great laps and reviews.👍👍

The BMW M3 has the aerodynamic profile of a barn door compared to the faster cars in the class. No matter how much power you give them they will struggle to hit 200mph at Monza. I think they would fair better on a twistier track like Spa but then again the GTs have all that downforce so...

 

[CSLACR]

This is directly due to the differences between wheel and DS3. I tune with both. My wheel doesn't have a permanent space in our home so if I am only going to play for a short time, I won't dig the wheel out of the closet.

With the DS3, it is difficult to get cars to turn in down to the apex. It's like the programming doesn't allow the steering to go to full lock. With the wheel, if you turn too far, you will just burn the front tires off the car. It is rare that I have seen the same effect with the DS3.

The differences between tunes for me is that with DS3 I do everything I can to get the car down to the apex. This means LSD Decel around 5 or 7, brake balance higher to the rear, higher rear ARB settings and aggressive differences in front/rear spring rates. With my G27, my tunes will have LSD Decel around 12 or 15, more even brake balance and ARBs.

There is definitely a difference. I am about the same speed with wheel and DS3, but the DS3 definitely needs some help with corner entry and slow, smooth movements.

Yeah, it's something in programming between the DS3 and wheel, and it's something I have a really hard time driving around. A couple cars have it so far.
Ridox's has the same problem without ABS, though it's nice on entry with ABS at 1. I can only assume with manual and harder downshifts the BB would play out more evenly than it did with AT for me.

 

[Onboy123]

FITT Race Car Tuner Challenge – 625PP Testing

Onboy123 - Chevrolet Camaro LM Race Car – 1:41.581 – Outstanding
One of the best handling Onboy tunes that I have driven. I gave this tune an outstanding rating for the handling, but it was a close call to getting the rating Driveable. There just isn’t enough power/speed to crank the lower lap times. I think you should have sacrificed all downforce for speed at Monza. Removing all of the aero allows for horse power to increase from 623 to 664.

Thanks…though the first bit isn't really much since, if I recall, all the cars you drove were either in my first phase of tuning or were just tunes I cobbled together in 5 minutes. Hmm…an "outstanding" from the faster of the tuners here…I'll take that as a win…ignoring the utter lack of pace in my car.

 

[CSLACR]

...

 

[XDesperado67]

Results
Desperado: 2:26.160
Comments: Drove great overall, a little bit of oversteer on entry, but manageable. This time is from it's first run, it's second run looked like this - 26.3, 26.2, 26.4, 26.168. 👍
DC 1.0

Thanks Dom for the alien lap time as usual.👍👍
Very happy that you found it so easy to make consistent laps in it.

Also just fyi can't seem to find and watch the video on YouTube you tried to post above....not sure if it's just my phone or a problem with the file name...

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

FITT Race Car Tuner Challenge – 625PP Testing
DS3, ABS1, grip reduction real, all other aids off



Ridox2JZGTE (PSN: GTP_Orido) - Lexus IS-F RM – 142.485 - Driveable
I know that you prefer the authenticity of ABS 0, but for me, this is just a video game and not a real driving simulator. At ABS 0, I kept locking up the fronts and would have produced really slow lap times and not a fair comparison to the other entries. So I tested using ABS 1. Even with ABS 1 it is too easy to lock up the front brakes. I do believe that PD programmed the brake balance to equate higher numbers to more stopping power. When we did the rally challenge on dirt, I noticed that PD cut the engine noise when the brakes locked. On tarmac they added tire squeal sounds, but I don’t think they knew what to do for dirt, so they just made the engine stop. I couldn’t run anything above 4 on the brakes or I would get lock up. I also tested a 400PP Miata on sport hard tires on the Top Gear test track. 8/10 produced the shortest stopping distance for that car/tire combination because the brake power didn’t exceed the tire grip against the speed and mass. With heavier, faster cars, anything above 7 produced wheel lock up. I have no clue how you drove your tune at all with ABS 0 and bias at 10/8, let alone drove it fast.

The handling on this tune was pretty good. It corners well, with no real bad habits. There might be a little more to gain in the gearbox. I love that the Lexus has eight gears, but I think you made this into a six speed box with the settings. I’m not sure if this would be better or not, but I would have tested gear spacing that looks opposite of your current settings. Right now, the lower gears are closer together and the higher gears are further apart. Test the opposite and see if there would be any gain.

Overall, a good tune that I am happy for the opportunity to drive.

Thanks for the testing and review MC Hami, that's a fast lap time I'll give that opposite transmission settings a go soon. About no ABS, well, it's pretty much a long journey of practice to drive a quick lap times with high BB, I spent my 1st 6 months of playing GT5 to get used to high BB. By the way, here is a video of mine during test run of the car, using 10/8 BB and no ABS, tire wear/fuel was on though, grip is real, offline. A few slow section and mistakes during the run, but clean lap, I hope you'll see how I apply the brakes and know that no ABS high BB is no easy feat for me, enjoy !

 

[CSLACR]

Thanks Dom for the alien lap time as usual.👍👍
Very happy that you found it so easy to make consistent laps in it.

Also just fyi can't seem to find and watch the video on YouTube you tried to post above....not sure if it's just my phone or a problem with the file name...

Idk it's working good for me

Hope you can see them, the vid of your cars lap is up now.

 

[CyKosis1973]

Completed 500PP Results here, sorry about the brutally pragmatic layout and lack of commentary. I would normally, but I've been busy and a bit lazy, sorry.

DC & laptime are not synonymous. I'll run my own car under test conditions shortly.

Thanks for all the rides, folks, that was a big old field of fun... 👍

{Cy}

 

[CSLACR]

What account is Johnnypenso using?

 

[CyKosis1973]

Johnnypenso is Johnnypenso, I think...

{Cy}

EDIT: - Myth CONFIRMED...

 

[XDesperado67]

Idk it's working good for me

Hope you can see them, the vid of your cars lap is up now.

It is/was the stupid default web browser on my new phone. Switch to Chrome and presto can see everyone's video's and photo's regardless of host.

Completed 500PP Results here, sorry about the brutally pragmatic layout and lack of commentary. I would normally, but I've been busy and a bit lazy, sorry.

DC & laptime are not synonymous. I'll run my own car under test conditions shortly.

Thanks for all the rides, folks, that was a big old field of fun... 👍

{Cy}

Thanks for the outstanding drive and DC.👍👍

 

[Onboy123]

Official 625PP Testing Post.

8) Onboy's Mullet Mobile 1:40.577

Actually very similar to krenkme's car, with a bit more push. Funny thing is one of my "hot-laps" in this car was EXACTLY the same as I did in krenkme's M3 (1:40.744). I was a bit speechless when I crossed the finish line on that one. Now as far as this car goes, it has a good amount of grip in most corners, transmits power well and is overall a nice package to drive. It does have a few problems though one of which is something that's plagued most cars in this shootout - Understeer. Parabolica was particularly tough in this car because it would just want to push wide into the sand. Another area of concern are the brakes. This car features what I affectionately call "Hami Brakes". Unfortunately because of this I had quite a lot of trouble at Lesmos because braking before the corner, and then releasing the brake pedal would result in the car's rear being upset. A few clicks lower on both F and R would fix the problem (Or a tweak on the LSD). I don't like high BB for the most part.

Understeer…in a 600hp FR car with Max/Min aero? You sure you got the right car? Anyway, if Parabolica is the massive swooping corners that you're referring to near the end of the lap, then yea, it doesn't much like that corner. As for the brakes…well, I can't trail brake, at least, not accurately and consistently, so that's why the brakes are as they are, set to allow rotation for the ham-fisted.

Also, I noticed there's no rating…?

 

[Motor City Hami]

All scores updated to date. A few shuffles in the 500PP classes.
Johnnypenso to the lead of 500PP group A.
Onboy now leader of 500PP group B.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7859252#post7859252