FITT RUF Challenge

[Otaliema]

And there's no possible way anyone can feel the same using a controller as a person using a wheel. The RUF cars are by far some of the most, feel it in the wheel feedback cars ever.

You don't feel the car with a DS3, but you can judge fun/frustration factor. Or as some of the more picky drivers in the past did. Base it on how much the car improved from stock, how consistent it was and only a little bit of fun/frustration/lap time.
The reason they did this is they didn't like any tune from anyone other than themselves. So to be fair they made it a clinical score rather than a personal score.
But no matter how you decide to do DC it's your score for the car, Was the car too stable and just plodded along and nothing phased it so it was boaring as all get up or did you find it a nice to know that you could take this to a race and short of being T-boned off the track you ani't gonna crash.

 

[joaosoarescso]

You don't feel the car with a DS3, but you can judge fun/frustration factor. Or as some of the more picky drivers in the past did. Base it on how much the car improved from stock, how consistent it was and only a little bit of fun/frustration/lap time.
The reason they did this is they didn't like any tune from anyone other than themselves. So to be fair they made it a clinical score rather than a personal score.
But no matter how you decide to do DC it's your score for the car, Was the car too stable and just plodded along and nothing phased it so it was boaring as all get up or did you find it a nice to know that you could take this to a race and short of being T-boned off the track you ani't gonna crash.

But what if a car that was tuned with a DS3 is loved by wheel users...

 

[Bass Addict]

And there's no possible way anyone can feel the same using a controller as a person using a wheel. The RUF cars are by far some of the most, feel it in the wheel feedback cars ever.

I completely agree...

I have to take a break as my wrists, arms & shoulders ache from testing 14 setups in 48 hours.

BUT....I love it!

 

[joaosoarescso]

Today's tuning run

Am i doing it right?

 

[Brewguy44]

I completely agree...

I have to take a break as my wrists, arms & shoulders ache from testing 14 setups in 48 hours.

BUT....I love it!

You sir are a glutton for punishment aren't you? that's a lot of driving as you said (BUT....I love it! )

 

[Brewguy44]

Today's tuning run

View attachment 507899

Am i doing it right?

Yea, if you're Drifting!!! Nice one BTW 👍

 

[coryclifford]

Am i doing it right?

That's just the thing. To some, you are. To some you aren't.

 

[shaunm80]

Low DC to fast cars makes total sense when they're horribly inconsistent, but, well, let me put it this way.

ugabugaz ran mid-high 28s in his Yellowbird, ran a low 29 in my car after a quick test of it. Shaun managed a 1:31 in his car, yet several in the field wound up out in the 34s and 35s. That's where I'm like "Umm, what's gone on here?"

I'm not saying the notes are inaccurate, just that the notes relative to lap time and DC voting don't entirely make sense. The CTR/BTR are easy to lose/gain a second through tuning with, but I can't see a "comfortable" tune for one (in this case, reefer's) being 3 seconds and change slow from the wild child that happened to put down a good lap.

My own time was a 1.34.298 or something like that. Not a 1.31. I would have scored myself a 10.0 in DC if I could get that fast!! but anyway, nothing is going on.. I call the tunes as I drive them.

Being serious for a moment, we have had this conversation about DC and how to score them in the past and the outcome was no change what so ever. By all means, we can have this conversation between all FITT members if you wish but lets do this in the FITT thread, not mine and @Otaliema's thread. Also, I have been trying to not have issues with testing as it puts some people off testing when reviews are called to question. I would rather anyone who has an issue with my results PM me and not air this in the public thread. This goes for any tuner who finds my scoring odd.

 

[joaosoarescso]

That's just the thing. To some, you are. To some you aren't.

Yeah, i know. We'll see

I'll put a warnig label on this one, once i'm comfortable the way it's "drifting"

 

[Otaliema]

But what if a car that was tuned with a DS3 is loved by wheel users...

It happens, Happens a lot in FITT challenges. Only a few wheel users enter anymore.
Offten it's wheel to DS3 that doesn't translate well. But DS3 to wheel generaly goes pretty smoothly.

Today's tuning run

View attachment 507899

Am i doing it right?

YES! keep it up. Wait this is not a drifting challenge. Might want to tighten it up a bit!
Nice slide control btw. if I do that it's purely on accident.

 

[joaosoarescso]

Wheel on grass while braking... and it turn out good... i won't tell it ended up in a spin.. ohh wai-

 

[ugabugaz]

@shaunm80 Thanks for the test and well the lap time really speaks for itself - at least with the first test I've achieved my goal of being fast. I could have made the car much smoother and easier to drive with a few very small tweaks but it would have been slower and I simply can't have that. I just don't see the point of it, unless I had a particular objective like tire wear conservation - but that's just my philosophy. Nothing wrong with a DS3 or an Auto Box, I use both - I still don't know how people can drive with X/O though lol.

Fun fact, my Yellowbird was the only car in the class that has no ballast nor chassis reinforcement (Unless I missed another one)

@Otaliema I disagree, I think you can feel a car with a DS3 up to a certain point - the brakes are fairly well represented for example. Sometimes you just need to exaggerate your actions in order to see whats going on though.

Like, Don't be afraid to award whatever DC you like. Some of you may remember when I test I have no problems awarding low scores like 5's and such so feel free.

 

[shaunm80]

Today's tuning run

View attachment 507899

Am i doing it right?

That is a great line you got through that corner! id say your on to a winner.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

My own time was a 1.34.298 or something like that. Not a 1.31. I would have scored myself a 10.0 in DC if I could get that fast!! but anyway, nothing is going on.. I call the tunes as I drive them.

Meant you ran 1:31 in uga's car, not your own. Maybe that's the theme, his car won't go around the track unless you drive it hard with the right lines. Trouble isn't with the scoring, it just seems like not everything got an entirely fair shake on lap time for one reason or another, that's all. The FITT methods work just fine and I'm not trying to change them, I just felt it was worth speaking up about what I saw.

 

[joaosoarescso]

Scoring
We only have one request when it comes to driver scoring, rate the DC based on your thoughts, feelings and how the car made you feel when driving it. Be honest, noone will feel hurt. Also, please provide constructive feedback on the tune you have tested, whether this is positive or negative feedback for a particular tune.

I think its quite simple

 

[ugabugaz]

Meant you ran 1:31 in uga's car, n

ot your own. Maybe that's the theme, his car won't go around the track unless you drive it hard with the right lines. Trouble isn't with the scoring, it just seems like not everything got an entirely fair shake on lap time for one reason or another, that's all. The FITT methods work just fine and I'm not trying to change them, I just felt it was worth speaking up about what I saw.

Silly boy, you just don't understand...But yeah the only thing I can say is my car is actually different to all the others, as I mentioned in my Fun Fact and also it has JATO strapped on.

 

[joaosoarescso]

LOLZ.. Sorry but i had to.

 

[Brewguy44]

Silly boy, you just don't understand...But yeah the only thing I can say is my car is actually different to all the others, as I mentioned in my Fun Fact and also it has JATO strapped on.

Good One 👍

 

[Rotary Junkie]

I'll pipe up on the wheel vs DS3 thing as well... Really, input settings in general.

A good car/good tune will be good on anything. A wheel makes it a lot easier to feel out what the car's doing (especially with the level of forced assist the DS3 gets) and easier to drive around some problems, while the DS3 makes it far easier to save cars from moments of "I did a bad". Wheel users can get away with things DS3 users can't and vice versa, but right is still right.


Sensitivity is another thing altogether, with similar effects. Lower settings make steering response less linear, with 7 seemingly being the closest to 1:1. Trouble for me at the lower settings is that the steering doesn't get back to center as quickly either, and then is slow to get to where I want it to be, so it's very easy to wind up "behind" on steering input, same goes for running a wheel with power steering shut off and having to fight it even when countersteering.

@ugabugaz: I see! Honestly, if I'd done a YB I probably wouldn't have bothered with the rigidity improvement either, it honestly could use a tiny bit more front grip, whilst the BTR would do better with a bit less.

Seeing as the YB has 215s up front and the BTR has 235s, 225s would probably be perfect.

 

[joaosoarescso]

Humm i think someone is making a storm in a glass of water.. I thought this was a FITT Ruf challenge. And not that^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Otaliema]

Alriite we have all said our peace. Lets sideline it. If you want to continue this discussion please strike a PM with myself and @shaunm80 Thank You.

As for the lap time. I wont ask @shaunm80 to rerun anything right now as he is the first in. If we get three more sets and there are any descripencys I will ask for a rerun.
This goes for any tester in any group. As I always do I don't panic with the first few testers to turn in. If after there is a obivious problem wiith the times I will ask for a rerun of the tune(s).

 

[xande1959]

@xande1959 - BTR '86
Best Lap Time - 1.33.786
DC – 9.2
Tune Comments - One thing I know from testing your tunes is that the more unconventional the car, the better the tune tends to be and this tune definitely it a good one. Grip levels are excellent, perhaps a tad too much grip at times but easily worked around as long as you hit the right lines and don’t brake too late. Front end rotation is almost perfect and the transmission and LSD settings minimise wheel spin significantly. A very good tune but lacked the consistency of @hall90 tune which would have made this tune truly epic

thank you for test him. happy for your comment, yet a hard drive even more the RUF 3400S👍

 

[shaunm80]

Guys, let's not have a fall out or argument if possible. This event is supposed to be fun. Keep the peace everyone.

 

[joaosoarescso]

My dad always thought me that if you don't know what you talking about or yoy dont know the subject you shut up and listen until you understand instead of asking lots of questions that don't add up.

Anyway, how's the CTR2 tunes going? Anyone reaching the 2:01 mark?

 

[ugabugaz]

@Rotary Junkie

As soon as they released the sensitivity adjustment in GT5 I went straight to 7 and never looked back. If I could crank it even higher I probably would but it does have it's downsides. Making small corrections can go horrible wrong especially on twitchy cars and especially mid corner. I've had a bunch of laps in my RGT that I've gone off the track really hard. I'm sure a wheel is more progressive and decidedly harder to grasp initially at least but also noticeably faster in the long run. If GT7 ever comes out on PS4, I'll for sure get a wheel but until then it's DS3 & Auto.

Tuning wise, What I found is that the CR made the YB less twitchy and slightly more unwilling to turn in.

 

[joaosoarescso]

Shhhhh dont give him fuel just ignore him and don't bother ok

 

[ugabugaz]

Shhhhh dont give him fuel just ignore him and don't bother ok

Honestly what are you talking about? I'm just having a discussion regarding what this thread is about - tuning. Like honestly...

 

[Rotary Junkie]

@Rotary Junkie

As soon as they released the sensitivity adjustment in GT5 I went straight to 7 and never looked back. If I could crank it even higher I probably would but it does have it's downsides. Making small corrections can go horrible wrong especially on twitchy cars and especially mid corner. I've had a bunch of laps in my RGT that I've gone off the track really hard. I'm sure a wheel is more progressive and decidedly harder to grasp initially at least but also noticeably faster in the long run. If GT7 ever comes out on PS4, I'll for sure get a wheel but until then it's DS3 & Auto.

Tuning wise, What I found is that the CR made the YB less twitchy and slightly more unwilling to turn in.

DS3's been the only way I've run GT6 anyway, haven't had reason to set my wheel up since my PS3 died the first time in GT5 era. However, I now have a proper computer on the way so I'll probably go play PCars and Assetto Corsa and stay there unless PD makes GT7 unreasonably good.

As for reinforcement, that sounds about right. In the YB's case it's a negative, the BTR turns in so hard that the tail can't handle it.

 

[joaosoarescso]

Nevermind that. Sorry to go off track there. I know that this is a tuning challenge but it is not to find the ultimate RUF tune but to tune according to our likes and see what others think about and improving in that way, of course that there's alot more into it than that, and i respect anyone's opinion but if people start talking about times and DC its because they didn't read the 1st post correctly.

There are alot of good people here with amazing skills at tuning and/or driving and I want to help others helping me so by helping them we both go forward, not only as a competition to see who's the best but to gain knowledge in every way.

Sorry for this kinda long post. I do not meant to disrespect anyone.

 

[Brewguy44]

I think its quite simple

I agree, it's nothing directed at one persons tune, it's just to see how your tune stacks up against others and to improve your tuning abilities to make you a better tuner.

I've been doing FITT for a couple of years now off & on and it's made me a better tuner and to understanding tuning more.

I never took it personally, just like my brewing, I'm a member of a Brew Club and they would tell me if it was good and how to make it even better and I used that info to make my beer better.