Fix Nissan Nismo Lm Gtr.

[Famine]

The only thing they did wrong is the giving hybrid power to front wheels. What is wrong is this car hasnt got any hybrid motors on front wheels which means its actually unrealistic for the car to have hybrid power on front wheels. All they need to do is giving hybrid power to rear wheels.

I haven't checked - because the GT6 NISMO GT-R LM nearly destroyed my G25 - but how do we know the hybrid system is powering the front wheels? I'm not even sure how we'd check it, given that the system very specifically provides a horsepower boost at around 90mph for a couple of seconds to accelerate the car out of corners. Maybe set the two ends of the car to comfort hard alternately and see which lights up?


That aside, the system is slightly more complicated than you give credit to - and you're wrong to say the car didn't "have hybrid power on front wheels". It was specifically designed to deliver electrical power to both the front and the rear wheels. The original Flybrid design recovered power from the front wheels, stored it in flywheels, then sent about a quarter of the 750hp forward out of the corners, driving the front wheels in conjunction with the combustion engine. The rest went backwards in an insane arrangement that involved portal axles, to get the drive up over the top of the air tunnels that were essentially the kingpin of the design and then back down to the hubs.

Shortly before Le Mans, Nissan axed the rear drive altogether because it didn't work. They reclassed the car from the top 8MJ LMP1-H to a 2MJ car, with front hybrid petrol/electric drive. In the event, the car didn't even run with that in the race because it was hopelessly unreliable and ate the complicated epicyclic gearboxes for fun - so it was mildly crazy that even without it, it was matching the other LMP1-Hs in the speed traps; the aerodynamics of the design worked a treat.

As far as I'm aware, the Gran Turismo version has always operated with a functional hybrid system, unlike the real car which didn't. Whether that's the purely FWD 2MJ version (which did technically run in testing and is thus "realistic") or the 4WD 8MJ car (which really didn't and is pure fiction)... I don't know. I've never tested it to see.

 

[KinLM]

Nismo Lm Gtr was great in Gt6 because it didnt suffered from horrible understeer in Gt sport does.




The Car in game has a working hybrid system. That means Pd gave the car a working hybrid system. The only thing they did wrong is the giving hybrid power to front wheels. What is wrong is this car hasnt got any hybrid motors on front wheels which means its actually unrealistic for the car to have hybrid power on front wheels. All they need to do is giving hybrid power to rear wheels. And stop telling me Nismo hybrid power didnt worked when Gr.1 class is filled with VGT cars.

I didn’t think that it had hybrid power in the game. If that’s the case then this is definitely news to me. I haven’t driven it since GTSport included a battery meter, so if it’s adding power out of corners then it must not be very substantial.

As for the VGT argument, pretty much none of those cars exist, so PD can do whatever they want; they’re basing it on fiction anyways, so nobody expects it to be “realistic to the real car” since there isn’t a real car.

With the Nismo, there **IS** a real car to base it on, so PD is going to replicate it to those specs as a result. If they didn’t make it true to life, then there would be a *LOT* of people who would be upset.

You don’t seem to be understanding why PD likely can’t just “make it have the hybrid system it was supposed to”, despite many members’ repeated attempts on here to explain it to you. I don’t mean to sound too condescending with that, but I simply don’t see how anybody could add anything at this point to answer your question that hasn’t already been stated in this thread.

 

[TonyJZX]

I look at the GTR-LM as a sad incident because Nissan gave up without even trying really. That's there perogative but its made worse by the fact that they and their surrogates hyped it all up as if they've got some revolutionary secret weapon and everyone else is doing it wrong and they're right.

Remember how they said they didnt want to make "another MR Audi R18"?

How silly is that statement in hindsight.

The R18 that won year after year until Audi couldnt be bothered any more? Nissan wouldnt want anything like that!

I can see the merit in PD replicating a broken mess of a car and that's authentic and people would be upset if it wasnt 'authentic'.

However are you playing the same series of game that I have? You know the stuff with VGTs and laser 2x and Nike shoe cars?

GT6 presented this car before the real life disaster so I would rather they depict the car as Nissan had envisaged on paper.

I dont want to drive a broken sad mess of a car even if its 'authentic'. We get enough of that in the real world.

I want to see how this concept would have actually worked in Nissan sunk $100 mil. a year into it just like Audi Porsche Toyota and everyone who actually tried.

At least in GT Sport we at least have some semblence of how this thing would worked in a competitve environement..

 

[George Jakob]

Nismo Lm Gtr was great in Gt6 because it didnt suffered from horrible understeer in Gt sport does

Ehh you must remember it wrong because i play GT6 right now and it undesteers like a box with wheels.

system. That means Pd gave the car a working hybrid system. The only thing they did wrong is the giving hybrid power to front wheels. What is wrong is this car hasnt got any hybrid motors on front wheels which means its actually unrealistic for the car to have hybrid power on front wheels. All they need to do is giving hybrid power to rear wheels.

Well
"Behind the engine and beneath the cockpit is a kinetic energy recovery system using two flywheels developed by Torotrak. The flywheels gain energy from the use of the front brakes then discharges that energy back to the front wheels via a driveshaft running over the top of the combustion engine. The flywheels can also output power to a secondary driveshaft which is connected to a limited-slip differential at the rear of the car which feeds epicyclic gearboxes located in each rear wheelhub"
That means they have to make huge changes to the physics engine to properly simulate it and it dosen't worth it.

And stop telling me Nismo hybrid power didnt worked

But it didn't work .

when Gr.1 class is filled with VGT cars.

And that matters how?.

I haven't checked - because the GT6 NISMO GT-R LM nearly destroyed my G25 - but how do we know the hybrid system is powering the front wheels? I'm not even sure how we'd check it, given that the system very specifically provides a horsepower boost at around 90mph for a couple of seconds to accelerate the car out of corners. Maybe set the two ends of the car to comfort hard alternately and see which lights up?


That aside, the system is slightly more complicated than you give credit to - and you're wrong to say the car didn't "have hybrid power on front wheels". It was specifically designed to deliver electrical power to both the front and the rear wheels. The original Flybrid design recovered power from the front wheels, stored it in flywheels, then sent about a quarter of the 750hp forward out of the corners, driving the front wheels in conjunction with the combustion engine. The rest went backwards in an insane arrangement that involved portal axles, to get the drive up over the top of the air tunnels that were essentially the kingpin of the design and then back down to the hubs.

Shortly before Le Mans, Nissan axed the rear drive altogether because it didn't work. They reclassed the car from the top 8MJ LMP1-H to a 2MJ car, with front hybrid petrol/electric drive. In the event, the car didn't even run with that in the race because it was hopelessly unreliable and ate the complicated epicyclic gearboxes for fun - so it was mildly crazy that even without it, it was matching the other LMP1-Hs in the speed traps; the aerodynamics of the design worked a treat.

As far as I'm aware, the Gran Turismo version has always operated with a functional hybrid system, unlike the real car which didn't. Whether that's the purely FWD 2MJ version (which did technically run in testing and is thus "realistic") or the 4WD 8MJ car (which really didn't and is pure fiction)... I don't know. I've never tested it to see.

The hybrid system does indeed power the front wheels.

I didn’t think that it had hybrid power in the game. If that’s the case then this is definitely news to me. I haven’t driven it since GTSport included a battery meter, so if it’s adding power out of corners then it must not be very substantial.

As for the VGT argument, pretty much none of those cars exist, so PD can do whatever they want; they’re basing it on fiction anyways, so nobody expects it to be “realistic to the real car” since there isn’t a real car.

With the Nismo, there **IS** a real car to base it on, so PD is going to replicate it to those specs as a result. If they didn’t make it true to life, then there would be a *LOT* of people who would be upset.

You don’t seem to be understanding why PD likely can’t just “make it have the hybrid system it was supposed to”, despite many members’ repeated attempts on here to explain it to you. I don’t mean to sound too condescending with that, but I simply don’t see how anybody could add anything at this point to answer your question that hasn’t already been stated in this thread.

It had a hybrid system since release actually.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

I like it to be a performance challenged car so that we can get to laugh at it whenever we see it on track.

I'll never forget the Eurosport coverage of that Le Mans 24H talking about the disaster the program was shaping up to be. They were saying that Audi was furious, not by the radical design and the search for inovation, but by the sheer fact that they never seemed to take the hardship of Le Mans seriously enough so that they ended up doing such a mess.

Well it was something out of the box. Unorthodox. Success or failure, Nissan got a ton of extra global interest for doing it, which was probably their ulterior motive all along.

They also knew that if they slapped a GT-R badge on it, bam! Instant attention.

Debatable. Nissan's CEO at the time had to basically appologize himself in public because of the disaster.

Well, unless you consider any kind of attention good attention.

 

[talhaONE]

Ehh you must remember it wrong because i play GT6 right now and it undesteers like a box with wheels.

That means you obviously didnt drove the car in gt sport. You are commenting about a car you didnt even drive.

And that matters how?

You are the one who says Nismo should stay crap because its crap in real life.Nismo should have a working hybrid system on rear wheels just like how VGT cars are exist in this game. If you care about realism so much Gt sport isnt for you.

I didn’t think that it had hybrid power in the game. If that’s the case then this is definitely news to me. I haven’t driven it since GTSport included a battery meter, so if it’s adding power out of corners then it must not be very substantial.

As for the VGT argument, pretty much none of those cars exist, so PD can do whatever they want; they’re basing it on fiction anyways, so nobody expects it to be “realistic to the real car” since there isn’t a real car.

With the Nismo, there **IS** a real car to base it on, so PD is going to replicate it to those specs as a result. If they didn’t make it true to life, then there would be a *LOT* of people who would be upset.

You don’t seem to be understanding why PD likely can’t just “make it have the hybrid system it was supposed to”, despite many members’ repeated attempts on here to explain it to you. I don’t mean to sound too condescending with that, but I simply don’t see how anybody could add anything at this point to answer your question that hasn’t already been stated in this thread.

Current Nismo Lm Gtr isnt realistic either. Most of the n class downforces isnt realistic either. The fact is Gt sport isnt a truly realistic driving simulator.

Wake up.

 

[George Jakob]

That means you obviously didnt drove the car in gt sport. You are commenting about a car you didnt even drive.

Ok are you trolling or what?

You are the one who says Nismo should stay crap because its crap in real life.Nismo should have a working hybrid system on rear wheels just like how VGT cars are exist in this game. If you care about realism so much Gt sport isnt for you.

Ugh... like Famine said Shortly before Le Mans, Nissan axed the rear drive altogether because it didn't work. Axed = removed so there was no rear hybrid system to begin with so what 🤬 are you on about?

just like how VGT cars are exist in this game

Again VGT are FAKE! Polyphony can do whatever the 🤬 they want with them .

 

[talhaONE]

Ok are you trolling or what?

Ugh... like Famine said Shortly before Le Mans, Nissan axed the rear drive altogether because it didn't work. Axed = removed so there was no rear hybrid system to begin with so what 🤬 are you on about?
Again VGT are FAKE! Polyphony can do whatever the 🤬 they want with them .

Then why hybrid system is exist in gt sport?

Btw Pd can touch any car they want. Just like vulcan has 0 downforce at front which clearly not realistic at all.

 

[Famine]

Then why hybrid system is exist in gt sport?

The car actually ran in testing with the front-wheel hybrid system you said it didn't have - although when it raced it didn't have that either. I already explained that to you in my post.

 

[talhaONE]

The car actually ran in testing with the front-wheel hybrid system you said it didn't have - although when it raced it didn't have that either. I already explained that to you in my post.

Then whats your point? Car should stay garbage as its now? Collecting dust is better?

 

[TS050]

Then whats your point? Car should stay garbage as its now? Collecting dust is better?

Yes, because that’s what it was

Garbage

 

[talhaONE]

Yes, because that’s what it was

Garbage

Worst logic i have ever seen.

 

[TS050]

Worst logic i have ever seen.

You’re arguing about logic? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black

 

[talhaONE]

You’re arguing about logic? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black

Im arguing about your logic and yeah its the worst.

 

[George Jakob]

Then why hybrid system is exist in gt sport?

Oh my god... i will explain it as simply as possible.
1 The GT-R LM Nismo was designed with 2 hybrid systems one at the front and one on the rear. But the system at the rear didn't work so they REMOVED IT before Le mans. 3.Polyphony used the car from Le mans THE ONE WITHOUT THE SECOND SYSTEM ON THE REAR do you understand?.

Then whats your point? Car should stay garbage as its now? Collecting dust is better

I told you before just because YOU can't be good with it dosen't mean no one can some people can win races with this car i use it and i love it you can't be good with every car .

 

[Famine]

Then whats your point?

I don't really have a specific point other than to correct statements you have made about the car that are not correct. For example these:

In real life Nismo Lm Gtr can be 4wd if necessary but in gt sport Nismo Lm Gtr has traction only and only at front tires. So Hybrid power should be given to rear wheels instead of front wheels.

Its broken. Hybrid power of Nismo never meant to go to front wheels. It goes to Rear wheels.

The only thing they did wrong is the giving hybrid power to front wheels. What is wrong is this car hasnt got any hybrid motors on front wheels which means its actually unrealistic for the car to have hybrid power on front wheels.

I explained to you that the car Nissan designed was intended to be petrol-electric hybrid on the front axle and electric on the rear axle. I explained to you that Nissan abandoned the rear motors because (and I'm being kind here) they didn't work, so it changed the car from a 4WD 8MJ hybrid to a FWD 2MJ hybrid with only the petrol-electric front axle which ran in testing. I explained to you that Nissan did not run the electric motors in the race, leaving it as a FWD petrol only.

If the car in GT Sport has around 625hp with a petrol engine powering the front wheels worth around 500hp and a hybrid system worth around 125hp also powering the front wheels, from around 90mph for a couple of seconds, then it is "realistic" in that the car actually ran (but didn't race) in this configuration.

Whether that makes it great or terrible in the game... I don't really care. I'm just updating the incorrect knowledge you have about the car because it very much did have electric power going to the front axle in one of its real, running configurations (and even its on-paper one which included the electric rear axle).

 

[talhaONE]

I told you before just because YOU can't be good with it dosen't mean no one can some people can win races with this car i use it and i love it you can't be good with every car .

Is this a joke? Have you ever compared lap times with other gr.1? Nismo only does well in certain tracks but does horrible bad on rest.

 

[Silver Arrows]

So...how about that Clio?

 

[talhaONE]

Whether that makes it great or terrible in the game... I don't really care. I'm just updating the incorrect knowledge you have about the car because it very much did have electric power going to the front axle in one of its real, running configurations (and even its on-paper one which included the electric rear axle).

I apreciate your my incorrect knowledge but in game performance matters a lot. Thats why Nismo needs hybrid power on its rear wheels. Doesnt matter if it had in real life or not.

 

[George Jakob]

I apreciate your my incorrect knowledge but in game performance matters a lot. Thats why Nismo needs hybrid power on its rear wheels. Doesnt matter if it had in real life or not.

Are you serious?

 

[TS050]

Im arguing about your logic and yeah its the worst.

Thank you, I spent about 9 seconds thinking about a response

I apreciate your my incorrect knowledge but in game performance matters a lot. Thats why Nismo needs hybrid power on its rear wheels. Doesnt matter if it had in real life or not.

Oof, wow, I’m not seeing a lot of logic here

 

[Silver Arrows]

I apreciate your my incorrect knowledge but in game performance matters a lot. Thats why Nismo needs hybrid power on its rear wheels. Doesnt matter if it had in real life or not.

I dunno if you wanna be saying that to one of the head honchos on the site, and a guy who has probably a better knowledge on the innards of GT Sport, but you seem to be doing a bang up job so far, so I'll leave you to it.

 

[Crazy Taylor]

Man we're definitely going round in circles here. The car is crap, it will probably never get fixed and normally what Famine says is probably true.

 

[George Jakob]

Man we're definitely going round in circles here. The car is crap, it will probably never get fixed and normally what Famine says is probably true.

It is true

 

[Downhill Dino]

Yes, because that’s what it was

Garbage

Hey that's just mean it tried it's best.

 

[ARTAsean]

Hey that's just mean it tried it's best.

Not so sure; from what I hear the drivers were under strict orders to return the car in one piece, so what we saw wasn’t even the car trying its best, lol

 

[Il_Conte_Sky]

People unironically arguing about car fidelity and realism on GTSport
This thread is the best

 

[GTV0819]

People unironically arguing about car fidelity and realism on GTSport
This thread is the best

Well, somebody is suggesting that there's a real reason it should be fixed.

 

[Famine]

I don't think there's anything innately wrong with wanting the car to have the full 8MJ Flybrid system, with front and rear electric power - after all, Nissan wanted it to be like that too*. The 2MJ FWD-only version was a compromise (and appears to be what PD modelled) because the system didn't work, and it's still actually better than what raced which was completely lacking the hybrid system and was basically just a 500hp, FWD petrol V6. The fact it was so fast by the end of the straights certainly proved the concept behind the aerodynamics, but the Flybrid - using flywheels instead of battery storage - was pretty much snake-oil and to get the power it needed, Nissan would have had to revert to conventional power scavenging and deployment, screwing up the car's weight.

There's no intrinsic reason that it couldn't be the full 8MJ car either. PD could just assume that the system worked (even though it didn't) and smash out 600hp of electric power to the rear wheels, regardless of the realism of it all. As @talhaONE is pointing out - and you do have to make language allowances here - PD has created a number of vehicles that are in fact entirely fictional, some of which use active aerodynamics that simply cannot work because they would snap off or insane propulsion systems like laser pulse drives. It's not exactly much of a leap from the real 2MJ car to "okay, let's say this worked as originally designed", certainly not compared to the Tomahawk or 2X.


All that said, I can't see it making so much difference to the car in the game, except making it slightly less of a torment to drive when the electric power kicks in (I assume, at any rate; I've not driven the car in GTS because the GT6 car was a wheel-smashing hog), because it should in principle be brought up to the same kind of average pace as any other Gr.1 car due to BOP. If it was made much quicker by having the 8MJ 4WD electric system without BOP, it'd still get a BOP change to make it about as fast as it is now.

*The original design was actually up near 2,000hp all in, but was toned down to ~1,200.

 

[talhaONE]

All that said, I can't see it making so much difference to the car in the game, except making it slightly less of a torment to drive when the electric power kicks in (I assume, at any rate; I've not driven the car in GTS because the GT6 car was a wheel-smashing hog), because it should in principle be brought up to the same kind of average pace as any other Gr.1 car due to BOP. If it was made much quicker by having the 8MJ 4WD electric system without BOP, it'd still get a BOP change to make it about as fast as it is now.

*The original design was actually up near 2,000hp all in, but was toned down to ~1,200.

It will have much better tyre wear and have much better corner exits. Its still an improvement if you even tone down a bit its hp with bop.