Flawed?

[WolfRacer543]

HA!


The bullet holes in GTA IV kick arse because they're more than just one low-res texture. They're a good resolution (still tiny, but good for a bullet-hole), and I'm fairly sure some (if not all) have a normal map as well so it gives you a nice illusion of depth where the bullet bent the metal in a bit, as opposed to a hole that lights up in the sun just like the rest of the metal around it.

These days there's lots of little tricks that can give the appearance of depth without actually having to make a 3D model. For example, look at the ground in Crysis which is made to look 3D using Parallel Occlusion Mapping.

Granted I dont know how GTA works, just saying it could be a texture with a trick rather than an actual 3D mapped geometry.

 

[TBR 427]

Granted I dont know how GTA works, just saying it could be a texture with a trick rather than an actual 3D mapped geometry.

As was I.


As in;
"nice illusion of depth where the bullet bent the metal in a bit"

The bent metal is (the important) part of said illusion, though I admit I kinda failed at wording it ll that well.

 

[pay2021]

Personally, I'm level 49 in Forza and pretty close to Level 50. It's fun, but there's so many things wrong with Forza.

I posted my huge review:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3644577&postcount=100

I mean honestly the game looks pretty poor at native resolution, the only 2 places the cars look good is at the main menu and the rendering before the race starts. This is where the game uses Mesh Streaming. Once you're in the game, it's like a cartoon. Even when browsing cars to buy they look like plastic models kits someone put together.

Have you guys seen this bias comparison video of Forza 3 against GT5 : Prologue?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQNqU6YW9zI


I had my brother take a look to give me the technical breakdown of the bias comments. The most important ones I'll comment on:

"60 FPS". GT5: Prologue replays run at 30fps, which is what we're watching, not 60FPS which is solid during gameplay.

"Motion Blur". The 'motion blur' mentioned for Forza is actually a low LOD (Level of Detail) texture streamed at long distances rather than awesome motion blur technology, while Gran Turismo uses a higher definition texture at all times compared to Forza. The car not blurring in GT is a case of depth of field not motion blur, where the car is kept is kept in focus and the foreground/background are out of focus. Depth of field is current gen technology unlike motion blur.

"Tire Marks!" or tyre marks. This is just decals, like bullet holes in Counter Strike, nothing special. I suspect GT5: Prologue doesn't have them because, they're looking at a better method of implementing tire marks on the road surfaces.

"Shadows and HDR on tracks". Actually if you want to compare lighting/shadow technology GT5rologue without a doubt uses better technology. Illuminate Labs is currently one of the leaders in Game Lighting technology with products such as Turtle and Beast. The global illumination technology used with turtle and beast, give products like GT5: Prologue, Mass Effect, Mirror's Edge and Killzone 2 realism beyond anything in Forza 3. The lighting in Forza 3, either uses low definition lightmaps or none at all and lack of high detail normal maps is disturbing, which you can see in their terribly lit rocks walls and flat grass.

"Grass" look at the GT5 side from 4:04 to 4:29. Then look at the flat "green" apparent grass in Forza.

For me you compare "X GAME" in a 1977 ATARI (xbox) and "Z GAME" in a high-end 2009 PC (PS3). C'mon!!!

And for the grass, look at the grass in Eiger.

 

[Terronium-12]

For me you compare "X GAME" in a 1977 ATARI (xbox) and "Z GAME" in a high-end 2007 PC (PS3). C'mon!!!

And for the grass, look at the grass in Eiger.

Ahem. I fixed that for you.

 

[Bogie 19th]

That's the one thing graphically that I find Forza 3 has on GT5p, and that is the environments. Otherwise, GT has it with the cars hands down. ***IMO***

For me you compare "X GAME" in a 1977 ATARI (xbox) and "Z GAME" in a high-end 2009 PC (PS3). C'mon!!!

NOT. They are both equally capable. But you surely can't call ANYTHING a 2009 High End PC when it only has 512mb of RAM,

 

[Dave A]

You can't call anything a high end 2009 PC except a high end 2009 PC. It eclipses anything that's readilly available to the public. But RAM is far less neccesary on a console than a PC. PC's have that many programs and big programs too, running in the background that you need a lot more RAM to run other big programs like a game. Games do use notable chunks of RAM, but there's a reason you can get a game on a PS3 that runs fine, but then you would need a PC with at least twice as much RAM to run it nearly as well.

The PC and 360 are fairly comparable in overall ability, there are differences but none that transcend a genereational gap. The only real difference that is a shame to see is the XB360's relyance on DVD and not a higher capacity media. But's the only significant difference as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Moglet]

"60 FPS". GT5: Prologue replays run at 30fps, which is what we're watching, not 60FPS which is solid during gameplay.

"Motion Blur". The 'motion blur' mentioned for Forza is actually a low LOD (Level of Detail) texture streamed at long distances rather than awesome motion blur technology, while Gran Turismo uses a higher definition texture at all times compared to Forza. The car not blurring in GT is a case of depth of field not motion blur, where the car is kept is kept in focus and the foreground/background are out of focus. Depth of field is current gen technology unlike motion blur.

"Tire Marks!" or tyre marks. This is just decals, like bullet holes in Counter Strike, nothing special. I suspect GT5: Prologue doesn't have them because, they're looking at a better method of implementing tire marks on the road surfaces.

"Shadows and HDR on tracks". Actually if you want to compare lighting/shadow technology GT5rologue without a doubt uses better technology. Illuminate Labs is currently one of the leaders in Game Lighting technology with products such as Turtle and Beast. The global illumination technology used with turtle and beast, give products like GT5: Prologue, Mass Effect, Mirror's Edge and Killzone 2 realism beyond anything in Forza 3. The lighting in Forza 3, either uses low definition lightmaps or none at all and lack of high detail normal maps is disturbing, which you can see in their terribly lit rocks walls and flat grass.

"Grass" look at the GT5 side from 4:04 to 4:29. Then look at the flat "green" apparent grass in Forza.

Personally I'd rather be caning it round the tracks in a 700hp Datsun 510 than stopping to examine the texture mapping and light levels.

Who cares how flat the grass is when you're doing 240mph?

 

[Spencer]

Yea really, everything blurred at 240 anyway.

 

[725]

Those awful sounds in GT5P hope they sort them out for the final product, FM3 sounds a lot better

 

[LaBounti]

The XKR S sounds amazing. I wish GT5 can have sounds similar.

 

[WolfRacer543]

As was I.


As in;
"nice illusion of depth where the bullet bent the metal in a bit"

The bent metal is (the important) part of said illusion, though I admit I kinda failed at wording it ll that well.

Oh my mistake, the first time I read it I misunderstood what you said.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Games do use notable chunks of RAM, but there's a reason you can get a game on a PS3 that runs fine, but then you would need a PC with at least twice as much RAM to run it nearly as well.

That is because the OS of a PC uses at least 512, though a gig now is minimum recommendations. However, 4GB of RAM is common recommendations these days (on top of 512mb graphics cards) for running a PC game at it's best (which consoles could never touch).

 

[WolfRacer543]

That is because the OS of a PC uses at least 512, though a gig now is minimum recommendations. However, 4GB of RAM is common recommendations these days (on top of 512mb graphics cards) for running a PC game at it's best (which consoles could never touch).

Yeah, but RAM is dirt cheap on PCs these days. You could buy some uber expensive RAM that'll let you OC by 15%, but its not really worth it unless you are an overclocking whore.

Even with graphics cards these days, the "average" card has at least 512mb and most the new generation cards are 1GB.

All that extra RAM on the card lets you run massively larger textures and resolutions on PCs than consoles (combined with the bandwidth to actually use it, no point having 2gb video RAM if the card doesn't have the bandwidth to use it).

 

[Sonzilla]

Let's see, this is just a list without going into detail...

- Far too aggressive, borderline retarded
- Spend way too much time braking (it seems the AI favors "brake checking" as opposed to solid braking)
- The AI will ram and/or perform the pit maneuver on you because they see nothing but their "racing line".
- The AI has the tendency to align themselves up as borders/obstacles around you (if the track is congested or wide enough) and will proceed to play bumper cars/demolition derby even for the 8th spot on the pole.
- They can crash and/or rollover and continue to race (and finish in a podium position if there's enough time left) as if nothing ever happened.
- There's the tendency to brake when they don't need to whatsoever, again, alluding to "brake checking".

That's all I've got in mind at the moment.

OMG lol yes very unnecessary braking and when they brake it's all or nothing.


On another note, has anyone noticed sometimes while in a race their is this slight hiccup or pause as if you have no control for a split second. You can hear the car sound stay exactly the same and no matter what button you press such as getting off the gas or changing gears the game will not respond.???????? Sounds like the CD is loading some information.

But this almost always happens either right before or in the braking zones.


Anyone ever experienced this problem.???

 

[Eric.]

I've had the sound hang for a second or so, but no other problem during that.

 

[Terronium-12]

OMG lol yes very unnecessary braking and when they brake it's all or nothing.


On another note, has anyone noticed sometimes while in a race their is this slight hiccup or pause as if you have no control for a split second. You can hear the car sound stay exactly the same and no matter what button you press such as getting off the gas or changing gears the game will not respond.???????? Sounds like the CD is loading some information.

But this almost always happens either right before or in the braking zones.


Anyone ever experienced this problem.???

I have. I've also experienced it while in the mid RPM range, it'll seem as if it's idling but it's just stuttering for a short second. Why, I don't know.

Doesn't bother me too much though, just trippy when it happens though.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

OMG lol yes very unnecessary braking and when they brake it's all or nothing.


On another note, has anyone noticed sometimes while in a race their is this slight hiccup or pause as if you have no control for a split second. You can hear the car sound stay exactly the same and no matter what button you press such as getting off the gas or changing gears the game will not respond.???????? Sounds like the CD is loading some information.

But this almost always happens either right before or in the braking zones.


Anyone ever experienced this problem.???

Yes I have a few times.


EDIT: I have also experienced reversing shock settings (bound and rebound) on two or three cars when you return to the adjustment screen.

Also I've had two or three races that went into "drift" scoring and stopped lap timing.

 

[FyreandIce]

Actually, that doesn't do a thing. Or at least it hasn't for me.

EDIT: How the hell did I leave the AI out? The AI is horrifically retarded in FM3.

Horrifically. Retarded.

Honestly, the A.I is the only good thing I can think of in FM3.

Single player is boring, online is just dead and offline multi-player doesn't exist...