FM4 leaked footage trailer!! (not april fools)

[koko]

And from that you got...



OK. So let me be perfectly clear, I say the inability to setup your own public room is bad and from that you get the idea that I think hoppers are amazing?
I'm not being funny here but if that's what you got from my statement then your reading comprehension is severely hampered.

In any case I'm glad they have all those different online modes. The more people there the less in regular lobbies where people just want to race regularly. They may indeed be fun. I've NEVER, not once raced anything other straight racing. I know the option is there but my 360 never hit me over the head and said I must play them. Those options are... OPTIONS as in you never have to see it nor play it. Why people get upset at options just blows my mind.

You really need to grow up, I was beeing sarcastic but whatever, you propably don't know what that means or is, no, not beeing funny at all.

Some are just happy whatever bone MS/T10 throws at their direction.

I don't have a grudge against the game and I think if you look at the whole picture Forza3 is the better game on the consoles but when someone comes and says that the hoppers are full of wreckers,corner cutters,cheaters you better believe it cause it's true.

 

[FyreandIce]

Are you serious? What you're bitching about is an issue in every online game, so I don't know why you're trying to mark as a negative about Forza.

It's a lot worse then it should be because of the stupid matchmaking system.

Again, in FM2 you knew the good hosts who would boot crashers and corner cutters strait away.

 

[Zer0]

Is FZ4 using laser scan technology? If they are, i remember thats what the PGR team did with their cars and that was the first time ever for renderig a cockpit in a video game console, it looked stunning. I can only hope this time around, it will look even better with today's hardware and graphics. I know PD takes tons and tons of digital pictures of the cars, premium only, so id assume detail wise will be better but with laser scanning technology only getting better, i can assume it will top GT5 this time around, if not on cars maybe on tracks? I guess only time will tell us.

Not the first.

PS2 - Driving Emotion Type-S (2001)


And I'm sure there were a lot of games before with modeled cockpit views.

I highly doubt PGR used much of laser scanning, their modeling in most cars is plain wrong with inaccurate shape/proportions and wrong perspective angles. Typical from hand made models.

Fm3 used laser scanning on the interiors of cars from memory....I know they used it on the exteriors of alot

~~EDIT~~

They did. Check out this pre release forza 2 video. showing the laser scanning of a veyron inside and outside.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY_hDLAehUU

Forza games never used laser scanning, at least I never have read that from an official source.

About the vid, that is a manual scan process based on coordinates, more tedious and slower and not as precise as a laser.

Non contact laser scanning:


Contact based scanning:

 

[G.T.Ace]

And I'm sure there were a lot of games before with modeled cockpit views.

Tons, ToCA series, Colin McRae series, a couple of PC racing games, the Need for Speed series.

 

[-=DV=-]

Not the first.

And I'm sure there were a lot of games before with modeled cockpit views.

//

Forza games never used laser scanning, at least I never have read that from an official source.

About the vid, that is a manual scan process based on coordinates, more tedious and slower and not as precise as a laser.

//

Clearly you didnt actually watch the full video. They STATE that they used laser scanning alongside other capture methods to dev the models.


Re: games with cockpit view....nigel mansells F1 racing had a cockpit on the snes...so did the origional TD game, going way back into pc monochrome video output days.

 

[Zer0]

Clearly you didnt actually watch the full video. They STATE that they used laser scanning alongside other capture methods to dev the models.


Re: games with cockpit view....nigel mansells F1 racing had a cockpit on the snes...so did the origional TD game, going way back into pc monochrome video output days.

I watched and makes no sense.

I guess he is mistaken about the name given on that scaning process, fact is no laser scanning is shown in that vid and he is speaking about the detail that you get on parts that are being manually scanned. Even yourself thought that was a laser scan.

I mean accurate 3D cockpits and preferably in road cars like I supose GTRL_Junior was referring, anyway is not that I don't know but was just a reminder of that the feature existed for a while. I think that the first game that I played with cockpit was Hard Drivin in the late eighties.

 

[Alex p.]

Oh, wait a minute...that's not new. My bad.

Made me LOL.

 

[-=DV=-]

I watched and makes no sense.

I guess he is mistaken about the name given on that scaning process, fact is no laser scanning is shown in that vid and.

Perhaps the media machine chose not to show the laser scanning process because it doesnt *look* like as much effort is going into it to the layman.

You said you have never heard from an official source that T10 use laser scanning, I gave you an official T10 press video where they state that they used laser scanning combined with other methods, then you state that T10 dont actually know the right terminalogy for the technique and technology they are using just because they dont specifically show the laser scanning happening in the video and chose to show a more labor intensive method that was also used....pffft some people.

 

[Zer0]

Perhaps the media machine chose not to show the laser scanning process because it doesnt *look* like as much effort is going into it to the layman.

You said you have never heard from an official source that T10 use laser scanning, I gave you an official T10 press video where they state that they used laser scanning combined with other methods, then you state that T10 dont actually know the right terminalogy for the technique and technology they are using just because they dont specifically show the laser scanning happening in the video and chose to show a more labor intensive method that was also used....pffft some people.

Sorry I mean reading about the process like I did with GT5:
http://jalopnik.com/#!238136/from-bucket-to-binary-morrison-corvette-scanned-into-gran-turismo

I'm sure they have mistaken the "3D scan" process with "Laser Scan", all the media sites that published the Veyron vid thought they were doing a laser scan. The polygon meshes shown in the dev screens are typical from a manual scan process, not a super detailed laser scan, also was the tape grid put over all the parts in the Veyron. If I recall correctly they outsourced the 3D scan work to a different company is not like T10 representatives are experts in the matter.

About the different methods:

"The red Ford GT showcased in 'Forza Motorsport 4' demos was created from a mix of reference photos, 3-D CAD data, 3-D laser scans and, of course, test drives."
"vehicles get an extra degree of analysis: For the upcoming "Forza" title, developers took 3-D laser scans of select cars, including the Bugatti Veyron."

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=1178948

Nothing about any other 3D scan process except "laser" that is wrong for that car, the only one seen scanned.

Perhaps things are becoming different for FM4 who knows, I hope to see more information on their 3D scanned process. Things like pin accurate interior textures, smaller exterior details like light glass writting reliefs and accurate panels separation/placement are some of the details that you could expect with the laser help.

Edit: I found this interview from FM3 that confirms that they have mistaken the name process and outsourced the scan work. That explains all.

It's a pretty rare car, it's kind of hard to get your hands on it. But we found one through Bugatti in San Diego, somewhere in southern California. And we had this group named Acme that go in and they laser scan the cars. So the process is they go in and they put tape along the major creases and the major seams of the car and they basically outline all the really nice rounded shapes. And then they use the laser to actually scan those lines directly into a CAD drawing.

It allows them to get incredible level of detail on how they're scanning. And we also take thousands of photos of the car. We didn't drive it ourselves. We did talk to some guys that drove it in our reviewer community and they told us sort of how it drives and what have you.

We've got a very strong partnership with Ferrari so they give us all sorts of drawings. Again, that cuts the time down but the kind of time I'm talking about, I think would be the next generation of laser scanning. It's basically what we don't have yet.

I think what we need is, I don't know – that's what I mean about if we had the answer, we'd be targeting it already. That's what I mean about three to five years away. We just don't have the technology.

http://www.ghost3d.com/G3D_MG_Tutorial_digitize_head_1.htm

 

[cuco33]

I don't know about you guys but the level of accuracy in these games is already great in my book. I don't need a model to be accurate to the micron level and personally think modeling a car's interior to this crazy level of detail, like the back seats, is a waste. It's also a waste of system resources when the game has to factor in that much data on the fly, and the game somewhere else will be affected negatively (screen tearing, pop in, crap AI, poor textures, etc). I'm all for better visuals but not at the cost of the overall end game.

 

[Zer0]

I don't know about you guys but the level of accuracy in these games is already great in my book. I don't need a model to be accurate to the micron level and personally think modeling a car's interior to this crazy level of detail, like the back seats, is a waste. It's also a waste of system resources when the game has to factor in that much data on the fly, and the game somewhere else will be affected negatively (screen tearing, pop in, crap AI, poor textures, etc). I'm all for better visuals but not at the cost of the overall end game.

I'm sure that we are not going to see a much more detailed ingame cars in Forza 4 than 3 but seems that they are going strong promoting the virtual showroom with kinect and the new highly detailed cars, so a laser scan is a must have for that part specially if they want to make it available for all 500 cars.

Also if you have a more accurate base model you can downgrade it for ingame use and still have a better model than previous games.

 

[CCX]

I'm sure that we are not going to see a much more detailed ingame cars in Forza 4 than 3 but seems that they are going strong promoting the virtual showroom with kinect and the new highly detailed cars, so a laser scan is a must have for that part specially if they want to make it available for all 500 cars.

Also if you have a more accurate base model you can downgrade it for ingame use and still have a better model than previous games.

Thinking about what happened with GT5's standard and premium models, I am not expecting all 500 cars to be available in this mode. At least then I will be pleasantly surprised if they are.

 

[GTRL_Junior]

You know if we can have a good selection of cars say around 700 to 800 i will be happy. If they take their time to model the cars not downgrade like GT5 did with their standard cars which btw, i think it looks like PS2 model cars then i am sure we all will be happy about it. The key thing is, take your time T10. I cant wait to see in action at E3. We all know it will be playable for sure by then.

 

[G.T.Ace]

standard cars which btw, i think it looks like PS2 model cars

They ARE PS2 models.

 

[cuco33]

I'm sure that we are not going to see a much more detailed ingame cars in Forza 4 than 3 but seems that they are going strong promoting the virtual showroom with kinect and the new highly detailed cars, so a laser scan is a must have for that part specially if they want to make it available for all 500 cars.

Also if you have a more accurate base model you can downgrade it for ingame use and still have a better model than previous games.

How are you sure we won't see much more detailed cars in game? Could very well happen.

There's various techniques to model something in real life into digital form. Laser scanning is very accurate but it's not the only accurate system out there. Our HD consoles don't need micron level of accuracy. Sometimes a laser scanning method can actually cost you more time working with the extremely accurate data to such a high tolerance than expected. I've experienced this first hand when my company outsourced some work to reverse engineer a product and we had laser scanning done. The company had 2 systems where one was to a very high level of accuracy and the other was to even more higher level of accuracy. Even the 'worst' was far more than what we needed. We spent more time working with the data than we actually thought could be possible. We seriously thought outsourcing to laser scanning the models would be very quick, and turnaround of the data to us was but working with the data wasn't.
There's also digitizers, point to point systems, etc that can speed up the modeling of cars to an accurate level. I'm sure all these companies use various techniques, not just 1.

 

[JoeMaPampang]

How are you sure we won't see much more detailed cars in game? Could very well happen.

There's various techniques to model something in real life into digital form. Laser scanning is very accurate but it's not the only accurate system out there. Our HD consoles don't need micron level of accuracy. Sometimes a laser scanning method can actually cost you more time working with the extremely accurate data to such a high tolerance than expected. I've experienced this first hand when my company outsourced some work to reverse engineer a product and we had laser scanning done. The company had 2 systems where one was to a very high level of accuracy and the other was to even more higher level of accuracy. Even the 'worst' was far more than what we needed. We spent more time working with the data than we actually thought could be possible. We seriously thought outsourcing to laser scanning the models would be very quick, and turnaround of the data to us was but working with the data wasn't.
There's also digitizers, point to point systems, etc that can speed up the modeling of cars to an accurate level. I'm sure all these companies use various techniques, not just 1.

It has nothing too do with the models because the meshes and polygons are smoother that Gt5 Premiums. It has too do with the lighting and the way the reflections are cast on the cars. Gt5's lighting is the best ever. It makes it look photorealistic. Now if T10 can do this for Forza 4 and i think they can and will. It will Murder any racinggame that comes out in the next ten years.👍

 

[Zer0]

How are you sure we won't see much more detailed cars in game? Could very well happen.

The leaked vid(pic below), the fact that they are pushing the double of car than FM3 with more effects, a time gap of only two years and the "jump" between FM2 and FM3 ingame visuals.

I'm sure you will have one part with the in-game graphics like FM3 but enhanced(more fx, camera effects and lighting?) and for other part the showroom graphics with better photorealism and full car detail. I imagine that photomode will use again the more detailed cars.

About the laser scanning I agree but if they want the maximum accuracy in shape and details laser is the route to go, that method of scanning a grid could be faster for them mainly because you get a clean mesh, but you obtain a very basic shape and the increased details are done subdividing the low poly grid and modelling the details by hand with no real 3D references. With a laser 3D copy you have references for all and used as a 3D blue print allows to hand model a perfect accurate copy for all parts, even the size of the screws or the scale for a leather texture. I doubt they modify directly the 3D laser data to fit the game specs.

 

[GTRL_Junior]

Just yesterday i had recorded a new show on speedtv called Speedmakers. They were showing a truck company where their new trucks had aerodynamics different from old ones. I cant remember the name of the company, anyways, they showed how they desingned their cars in a different method. They had a scale car, big enough and perfected model to make a big one, the real one upscale. It was a gun where the scanned the scale model, then it would make a perfect 3D model on the computer and thats how they would capture everything. Also they had a program where wind tunnels werent needed anymore, they used a program where it would show the truck its weakness and strengths in terms of perfomance and downforce. Now where am i going with this? Well what if they would use this new scanning system for FZ4 with real world cars or even scale models. I mean think of how much time they would save without sacrificing quality.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

Question -> What marque that came in-between De Tomaso and DeLorean? Thanks!

 

[Terronium-12]

Question -> What marque that came in-between De Tomaso and DeLorean? Thanks!

Devon Motorworks.

 

[IceMan PJN]

How are you sure we won't see much more detailed cars in game? Could very well happen.

I seriously doubt that improvements will come from model detail. FM3's cars actually look great as it is. While GT fanboys love to boast about how amazing GT5's Premium models look, there isn't much difference between them and FM3's car models. I would expect improvements in car model detail for Forza on the next Xbox, but I don't see more model detail being the focus for FM4.

I think improvements will be more in other areas, like lighting (we already know that to be a focus), hopefully some weather, and maybe more cars on track (I know they said sixteen online, but never heard about more than eight yet for singleplayer). I don't think it would really be practical to expect much more model detail on the current platforms.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> ...

Devon Motorworks.

^ Thanks!

 

[Dopplegagger]

You know if we can have a good selection of cars say around 700 to 800 i will be happy. If they take their time to model the cars not downgrade like GT5 did with their standard cars which btw, i think it looks like PS2 model cars then i am sure we all will be happy about it. The key thing is, take your time T10. I cant wait to see in action at E3. We all know it will be playable for sure by then.

Wow... Since when did 700-800 different cars become a good selection? I feel that 500 is more than enough to shake a sitck at because, i am constantly finding new cars to try, buy and race.

Like today, I finally got around to seeing what sort of potential a Nissan Versa has... When I built it to E/275, I was smitten. It's an ugly ho-bag of a car... but damn does it haul butt at the top of E class... I was plesently suprised. Plus instead of gaudy body kits with entire bumper replacements, it's aftermarket body parts is nearly chin spoilers, and skirts... SWEET! Spmething simplistic...

Sory for the CSB, but I think 700-800 would be overload... Then again you can never have enough cars, so I see what you mean.

 

[Bogie 19th]

My guess is that the overall majority of people have never raced every single car in FM3, and as well as in GT5.

 

[espeed623]

My guess is that the majority of people have never raced every single car in FM3, as well as in GT5.

Not everyone is that ambitious, Bogie.

 

[t.o.]

Wow... Since when did 700-800 different cars become a good selection? I feel that 500 is more than enough to shake a sitck at because, i am constantly finding new cars to try, buy and race.

True enough. It's not about the quantity of cars but the quality. I'm not interested in racing some 1914 Milk Wagon highly detailed. I want to be able to recreate any racing series that exists in real life. Gimme the BTCC, STCC, ALMS, NASCAR etc.

One thing I think would be nice for FM4 to have is blank Formula One cars sorta like they have blank NASCAR cars. Give us a generic F1 car that we can tune to our liking and then put a custom livery on to recreate F1 races if we want. That's really the only thing missing to be honest. That and the Chevy Cruze. Don't think FM3 has that one yet. I think that's relatively "new" and probably didn't make it for development for FM3.

 

[-=DV=-]

the CRUZE was a piece of total and utter runny chunky cat crape. They are just a rebadged daewoo and the 2010 models are ALREADY having head gasket issues lol

 

[Smart_Roadster]

The Top Gear Test Track and the HKS CT230R. Those copycat :censored:s!

 

[Claybird]

Saying that though. Most multiplats still run better on the 360.

I recently tried Crysis 2 on both consoles and the 360 version just blows the PS3 one out of the water. With a better framerate and AA.

You could say that it's the PS3 that's getting dated. With it's tiny ammount of RAM, which gives developers a hard time.

Um, no your wrong...Crysis 2 is pretty much the same on both consoles.
Though XBOX has tons of screen tearing.

http://www.lensoftruth.com/head2head/verdicttie/head2head-crysis-2-analysis/2/

 

[Bogie 19th]

the CRUZE was a piece of total and utter runny chunky cat crape. They are just a rebadged daewoo and the 2010 models are ALREADY having head gasket issues lol

LOL...not sure if serious. The Cruze is actually one of the best, if not the best car in the market in its class.

Rebadged Daewoo? ROFL. Sorry son, but the Cruze is built on the Delta II platform, which was developed GM's Opel brand in Germany. Daewoo did receive a rebadged version of the Cruze, called the Lacetti.

Um, no your wrong

How can his opinion be wrong