For those bored and unsatisfied with AI/Difficulty/Etc...

[Tenacious D]

not every thread needs to be turned into a complaining thread.

Evidently, they think it does. Eh, just ignore them.

I spent several hours yesterday and today buying a few cars and doing some race tuning of them, and entering them in the first i-A World Circuit Tour series race at Motegi. It cost a lot to do this, more than a million, so it's not something everyone can do willy nilly. But these have been some of the most fun races I've had in GT6.

The first one was an F430 Scuderia I did the whole monty "race mod" to, save for racing brakes because I was fine with the stock brakes. The one really good thing about modding cars in GT6 is that everything can be reverted to stock, including weight reduction. So, if I found that the car was too light and performing too well, I could fuss with both ends of the equation, power and weight, and find some sweet spots. I may have harmed the handling by using adding custom wheels, but I haven't thought of going back to the stock Ferrari wheels. Besides, it made the car handling kind of a fun challenge itself. Just putting Racing tires on it didn't give it ungodly grip.

In particular, I found that a sports car I had to nurse around turns mitigated having bot cars that crawled around turns themselves. It takes away a glaring difference when you have to crawl a little too.

And surprisingly, these bots were rather challenging. It was actually fun to navigate through the field in a car that had to be driven more carefully than the usual race car. The first and second place cars would sometimes duke it out for the lead, and when I managed to reach them, I usually couldn't just floor it and make them give up. Often, if not one, then both of them were on my tail trying to pass me. Most of the time, I finished second place as the first place car, either the Opel Calibra or Alfa Romeo 155 Touring Cars, wasn't in the mood to let me win. Once, I made the Ferrari too strong, and quit because the bots gave up. I raced about a dozen times, won once. Six or seven of the replays were worth saving for Photo worthy moments. I only won twice, the rest were second or third place. The typical margin from first was about 0.3 seconds, my win was by 0.125. A few of them the lead car fought to get the lead back and usually won. So much for "the bots always let you win."

I took the F430 through the entire series, and had a ton o' fun with all the races. Most of them were second place finishes, with just one or two victories per track. Brands Hatch in particular gave me some very nice packed fields much of the race. Spa was the one race I had to fuss with the car a bit more, as otherwise I always finished fourth place.

I went back with an Oullim Spirra, a Countach 25th Anniversary Edition, a Callaway C12 and a Lexus IS-F. Each one handled radically differently and gave me a different, challenging, and fun race. I now want to try anything and everything in reach to see how they do in this series, and I'd better be careful because I already spent myself into a hole once in the early days. Fortunately, the payouts are pretty decent with the login bonus. And doing the series with sports cars, even supercars instead of race cars adds a bit more challenge, especially mid-engined cars you have to carefully navigate through turns. You can't just stomp your way through the pack. You have to use what Imari laments is missing in GT6: race craft.

You might give it a try. 👍

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I can't let go of the best tires though, because I like to throw cars around turns with authority.

User constantly touts GT as fine simulation; only uses the silly tires. It all makes sense now.

I had a bittersweet race last night with the AI, on the first Night Masters race in A. I've started playing on my non-GTP account, and took a 170hp Fit up against the Evos, Scoobies, and other assorted proper sports cars at Bathurst. Unsurprisingly, I was left vastly outgunned on the straights, so had to claw time back in the corners - which shouldn't have been much, since the car has Comfort Softs and absolutely no non-power parts added to it. But claw back time I did - quite a bit, moving up to midway through the pack in a lap - all the while avoiding the AI's less-than-brilliant mid-corner braking and other such things. What was absolutely depressing, however, was having an Evo fly up behind me on the straight after the first turn. I moved to the left, as far as I could go without dipping a wheel in the grass, in the hopes he'd fly by on the right and I could catch a draft.

What does he do? He gets off the throttle and coasts to stay behind me (well, and to my right). Not only that, but our moving roadblock collected two other AI, one behind each of us, and when I moved over to let the one behind past, it kept formation.

Nevermind that I had a massively-outgunned car (that ended up winning, just barely, against the FT86 concept rabbit), but this sort of behaviour just completely sucks the fun of racing out of the game for me.

 

[Tenacious D]

Slip comes into a happy thread and complains. Such a nice, unsilly mod.

By the way, race sims have nothing but the silly tires.

A quick edit. For a guy who's supposed to be above it all, you sure seem to post a certain amount of ridicule and flamebait.

I know that all the cool kids say the Racing Softs are too grippy. Some of the cool kids say the Racing tires period are too grippy. But not everyone agrees with that assessment. I don't recall very many complaining about a certain competitor which has even grippier tires, if one generic category of them. And not many complain about sims of yore which had grippy racing tires.

But the real matter is how well the game simulates racing times, and amazingly, in the GTRs, Ferrari Challenge, GT6 and other games I have that feature the same tracks like Monza, I have to enter that sweeping turn before the straight at the same speed in all of them, roughly 75mph, and accelerate at about the same amount through it. Except the bots in the GTRs turn the chicanes into grinding hell as they bash each other through them.

Honestly, why are you a mod, the way you act around here?

 

[SCER]

User constantly touts GT as fine simulation; only uses the silly tires. It all makes sense now.

I had a bittersweet race last night with the AI, on the first Night Masters race in A. I've started playing on my non-GTP account, and took a 170hp Fit up against the Evos, Scoobies, and other assorted proper sports cars at Bathurst. Unsurprisingly, I was left vastly outgunned on the straights, so had to claw time back in the corners - which shouldn't have been much, since the car has Comfort Softs and absolutely no non-power parts added to it. But claw back time I did - quite a bit, moving up to midway through the pack in a lap - all the while avoiding the AI's less-than-brilliant mid-corner braking and other such things. What was absolutely depressing, however, was having an Evo fly up behind me on the straight after the first turn. I moved to the left, as far as I could go without dipping a wheel in the grass, in the hopes he'd fly by on the right and I could catch a draft.

What does he do? He gets off the throttle and coasts to stay behind me (well, and to my right). Not only that, but our moving roadblock collected two other AI, one behind each of us, and when I moved over to let the one behind past, it kept formation.

Nevermind that I had a massively-outgunned car (that ended up winning, just barely, against the FT86 concept rabbit), but this sort of behaviour just completely sucks the fun of racing out of the game for me.

Slipzstrem, surely you agree that there should be room for at least the smallest shred of optimism about GT6 to be allowed to exist?

So far every positive thread I've seen in the reviews section has been crushed by waves of negativity, and often ridicule/sarcasm directed at the OP, and I don't think that's fair.

 

[Tenacious D]

Seriously, there ARE complaint threads here, guys, obvious ones. Go harf in them. Jeepers, humans...

 

[C_Raccoon23]

Everyone has a right to be dissatisfied and voice their dissatisfaction, but like I said, some people want to enjoy and be happy about GT6, and not every thread needs to be turned into a complaining thread.

Fair enough.

 

[research]

_________category 1____________________ | ____________category 2___________________________
people who think the driving in GT6 is fantastic ... people who are bored and unsatisfied with A.I./Difficulty/etc


^ What sort of percentages might we have here, fellas? I'll step out and take a guess: Very high, and very high. So, this thread title potentially offers something that many players may value (some quite highly), and then the offer is shown as a bucket of warm steaming nevermind... It just might not sell so well. The AI and/or difficulty has little to do with the driving experience.



Most players look at GT as a racing title. When my friends say things like, "you thinkin about that new racing game, gran turismo 6?", I just don't have it in me to crack a wry smile, and say, "guys.. it's a driving game, OK?" (harf)

 

[Tenacious D]

Never mind, I'm kind of out of it, might be completely off base here.

 

[ShiftingGears]

Slipzstrem, surely you agree that there should be room for at least the smallest shred of optimism about GT6 to be allowed to exist?

So far every positive thread I've seen in the reviews section has been crushed by waves of negativity, and often ridicule/sarcasm directed at the OP, and I don't think that's fair.

This thread is specifically directed at people who feel unsatisfied with the AI. Why would you not expect people who are unsatisfied with the AI to post here?

 

[Tenacious D]

If everyone would read the first post, rather than skim or ignore it as it seems the complainers want to do, it's about how to do things to make the game enjoyable. This is not a complaint thread. Even though the gripers want to turn every thread into one.

 

[Rittig]

Upon purchasing GT6 I was extremely annoyed at the new version of rabbit chasing (rabbit goes fast, tires out, but maintains pace once passed).

Turn all aids to off (ABS: 1 for us poor folk with ds3), turn all HUD options off including driving lines, only play premiums with visible tachometers. Instead of worrying 100% about first place and 3 stars and credits, learn to really enjoy and understand the car and track that you drive. This change to my play style has not only made laps more difficult, but has created a much more immersed and interesting playing environment.

Totally agree. That's how I've played GT since early GT5, actually, and I do all races, hotlaps, anything - even online racing - like that.
Also, I never tune cars. I withc tyres, but that's all. It helps me get an "idea" how the cars behave IRL, and I can compare cars, even test them against each other.

I love GT6! Sure there are glitches, the AI probably being the worst issue, but the simulation, the realism - it's GREAT! I love the lights in the late afternoon or at night, I love the way you look for the sky to start clearing up, when it rains, I love the cockpit views shaking under heavy load, I love the way you can HEAR if you're on slicks or comfort tyres from the skidding sounds - the even behave differently, it's not just variations of traction like it was in GT5!

One other thing bothers me: All those rolling starts! Most racing I've done, is grid starts, and that's a rather big part of racing, especially with all aids off. But I do realize, that grid starts require the AI to be modelled a lot better than it currently is. But still... I'd love some grid starts again.

I've spent WAAAAAAAY too many hours with GT6 the last month. The kids have started looking for me by the PS3 first, before they look in the garage. That's a bad thing.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Slip comes into a happy thread and complains. Such a nice, unsilly mod.

I must've missed the sign that says "positive posts that suggest completely ignoring the AI is the solution to bad AI" on the front door.

The OP's suggestion is a fine one, so long as I'm going to treat GT6 as a hot-lap simulator. While that's pretty much what all GT's have ended up being after having to slog through the single player mode, considering all the talk of improved AI, I don't think it's unreasonable to have expected better than GT5. AI that refuses to pass is not a step forward, and while I enjoyed the challenge of taking a massively out-powered car to a win on a track as exciting as a night-time Bathurst, that victory is a bit hollow when the obvious scripting of the AI comes to the fore.

A quick edit. For a guy who's supposed to be above it all, you sure seem to post a certain amount of ridicule and flamebait.

Point me to the "flamebait", unless you're going to consider recounting an actual race I had in GT6 two nights ago as such. Or does that become a blanket term for anything that isn't pro-GT? That too, would explain a lot.

By the way, race sims have nothing but the silly tires.

I know that all the cool kids say the Racing Softs are too grippy. Some of the cool kids say the Racing tires period are too grippy. But not everyone agrees with that assessment. I don't recall very many complaining about a certain competitor which has even grippier tires, if one generic category of them. And not many complain about sims of yore which had grippy racing tires.

Racing Softs are too grippy. People with much more experience than you have done the testing to back that up, but instead of comparing to reality, you prefer to let bias do the talking, and wave away that testing with the "cool kids" brush-off. It doesn't matter if people all agree or not; if the goal is realism - something you continually claim GT has in its favour - then racing tires are not the solution. A GT300 class race car on racing tires flat out refuses to get out of shape in GT unless you go to extreme measures. Not the case in other games...

But the real matter is how well the game simulates racing times, and amazingly, in the GTRs, Ferrari Challenge, GT6 and other games I have that feature the same tracks like Monza, I have to enter that sweeping turn before the straight at the same speed in all of them, roughly 75mph, and accelerate at about the same amount through it. Except the bots in the GTRs turn the chicanes into grinding hell as they bash each other through them.

I shouldn't have to explain why being able to match lap times does not, on its own, equal realism.

Honestly, why are you a mod, the way you act around here?

There is no requirement to have to like GT[insert newest iteration]; hell, some members of staff don't even own it. I'm a fan of the series - I told Kaz as much when I met him - but most importantly, I fully support Jordan's views regarding the AUP and how the site is run. If you think site staff should be nothing but positive about a particular title, then perhaps you should try the official PS forums, and the utter mess that they provide.

I take it you also don't bother looking much outside the main GT6 section; like, say, the Photomode subforum.

Slipzstrem, surely you agree that there should be room for at least the smallest shred of optimism about GT6 to be allowed to exist?

Absolutely; though, now that it's a known quantity, I'd reasonably expect less optimism than pre-release, where people could let their expectations (however unjustified) run rampant. I've never said people shouldn't be optimistic, either. While some temper that optimism with caution - some of which, given PD's more recent track records with regards to delivering promised features, is more than justified IMO - naturally we're all going to fall on different parts of the spectrum. I simply posted a recount of my awful AI experience, and I don't think it's unreasonable to think driving enjoyment and challenging AI need be mutually exclusive. The actual racing bit of GT has been getting worse the past decade.

So far every positive thread I've seen in the reviews section has been crushed by waves of negativity, and often ridicule/sarcasm directed at the OP, and I don't think that's fair.

Perhaps then, no positive posting of any kind should be allowed in any of the "negative" threads?

I understand your point, but this is a discussion board - discussions will happen. Provided they don't veer wildly off-topic nor violate the AUP, they will continue to happen.

Seriously, there ARE complaint threads here, guys, obvious ones. Go harf in them. Jeepers, humans...

The irony of you telling people which threads to post in when you've ignored staff members direct requests to take your own off-topic rants to other threads specifically designed for those topics is rich.

 

[ShiftingGears]

If everyone would read the first post, rather than skim or ignore it as it seems the complainers want to do, it's about how to do things to make the game enjoyable. This is not a complaint thread. Even though the gripers want to turn every thread into one.

Yes, but has been mentioned in this thread, many people do not feel that these suggestions sufficiently improve the offline experience, given the examples that they have posted. You might see that as a complaint, I would see that as a legitimate response to the OP's suggestions. Because not only are the AI slow, their racecraft is awful, so no immersive racing takes place even if you do tie one hand behind your back when playing GT. You might end up with close racing, but it isn't immersive or realistic. So for many people, it holds no excitement or interest.

 

[JogoAsobi]

Neither bored nor unsatisfied, I just do what I did in GT5 when in offline cocoon mode...
...I see how much cleaner & faster I can pass the AI into the race while also decreasing PP.
Does wonders for increasing lap times, without the monotony of time trials.

Doing that on Nordschleife Seasonals in GT5 paid for my stable of 20M cars.
Never got tired of it, in the end, the race is always against yourself...
...as is doing the perfect lap.

 

[phil_75]

I must've missed the sign that says "positive posts that suggest completely ignoring the AI is the solution to bad AI" on the front door.

The OP's suggestion is a fine one, so long as I'm going to treat GT6 as a hot-lap simulator. While that's pretty much what all GT's have ended up being after having to slog through the single player mode, considering all the talk of improved AI, I don't think it's unreasonable to have expected better than GT5. AI that refuses to pass is not a step forward, and while I enjoyed the challenge of taking a massively out-powered car to a win on a track as exciting as a night-time Bathurst, that victory is a bit hollow when the obvious scripting of the AI comes to the fore.



Point me to the "flamebait", unless you're going to consider recounting an actual race I had in GT6 two nights ago as such. Or does that become a blanket term for anything that isn't pro-GT? That too, would explain a lot.



Racing Softs are too grippy. People with much more experience than you have done the testing to back that up, but instead of comparing to reality, you prefer to let bias do the talking, and wave away that testing with the "cool kids" brush-off. It doesn't matter if people all agree or not; if the goal is realism - something you continually claim GT has in its favour - then racing tires are not the solution. A GT300 class race car on racing tires flat out refuses to get out of shape in GT unless you go to extreme measures. Not the case in other games...



I shouldn't have to explain why being able to match lap times does not, on its own, equal realism.



There is no requirement to have to like GT[insert newest iteration]; hell, some members of staff don't even own it. I'm a fan of the series - I told Kaz as much when I met him - but most importantly, I fully support Jordan's views regarding the AUP and how the site is run. If you think site staff should be nothing but positive about a particular title, then perhaps you should try the official PS forums, and the utter mess that they provide.

I take it you also don't bother looking much outside the main GT6 section; like, say, the Photomode subforum.



Absolutely; though, now that it's a known quantity, I'd reasonably expect less optimism than pre-release, where people could let their expectations (however unjustified) run rampant. I've never said people shouldn't be optimistic, either. While some temper that optimism with caution - some of which, given PD's more recent track records with regards to delivering promised features, is more than justified IMO - naturally we're all going to fall on different parts of the spectrum. I simply posted a recount of my awful AI experience, and I don't think it's unreasonable to think driving enjoyment and challenging AI need be mutually exclusive. The actual racing bit of GT has been getting worse the past decade.



Perhaps then, no positive posting of any kind should be allowed in any of the "negative" threads?

I understand your point, but this is a discussion board - discussions will happen. Provided they don't veer wildly off-topic nor violate the AUP, they will continue to happen.



The irony of you telling people which threads to post in when you've ignored staff members direct requests to take your own off-topic rants to other threads specifically designed for those topics is rich.

My new hero!

 

[Tenacious D]

Never mind. This pointless bickering is pointless. And sadly, it's the incessant carping here that has been driving some old members here away.

I wish people would try and make this an inviting place to hang out, instead of another NeoGAF.