For those of us in the USA I have a beef with the car insurance industry.

[JCE]

First of all here's the definition of symbol ratings that the insurance industry rates motor vehicles. Pay close attention to the bold text.

Insurers use a car rating system to determine the premium price for collision and comprehensive coverage.

In many systems, every car is given a rating symbol between 1 and 27; the higher the rating number, the more costly the premium. All things being equal, two identically priced cars will have the same insurance rating.

However, insurance companies often loathe the cars most of us love — luxury and exciting high-performance cars — and these cars may be subject to surcharges. In addition, some cars are more expensive to repair or are more likely to incur extensive damage in a collision. And some cars are more — or less — likely to be stolen; the Highway Data Loss Institute says cars with especially low theft claims are larger four-door family sedans as well as station wagons, while cars with especially high theft claims include high-performance convertibles. So ratings are adjusted for these risk factors.

Insurance rating figures used in this book are based on “Insurance Symbols,” with the rating for a particular vehicle adjusted for any special risk factors.

Now, as many of you might know I'm close to being in the market of finding something to trade my Focus for. And I came to the conclusion that I want a 2003-2004 Mustang GT or a 1999-2001 Mustang SVT Cobra...well now that's totally out of the question. I went to my insurance agent's office today to politely ask for the symbol ratings of cars that I would be interested in...this being mostly sport coupes. Here's what I got...keep in mind the higher the symbol rating number the more the insurance. For reference my current daily driver is a 2005 Ford Focus ZX5 SES with a symbol rating of 13 which with 3 points on my record currently and my current age of 26 gets me $1071 per 6 months. And on 4/18/2007 2 points drop off, take that in consideration with me turning 27 in Nov. and my premium will drop probably around 35% according to my agent. OH and the here's the kicker, your credit score in Texas also factors in to the premium equasion...which is the reason why I have $1071 per 6 months...if I had a 650+ beacon score my insurance would of been $721~730 per 6 months.

Coupes:
year - make - model = symbol rating

• 2001 Ford Mustang SVT Cobra = 25
• 2003 Ford Mustang GT = 22
• 2006 Ford Mustang GT = 20
• 2002 BMW 325ci = 21
• 2002 BMW 330ci = 22
• 2004 Nissan 350Z = 22
• 2005 Pontiac GTO = 19
• 2001 Pontiac Trans-Am WS6 = 22
• 2002 Chevrolet Camaro SS = 22
• 2005 Subaru WRX STi = A ****ING 26!!!
• 2001 Chevrolet Corvette = 19
• 2001 Mercedes CLK430 = 22
• 2005 Hyundai Tiburon GT V6 = 18
• 2005 Scion tC = 14/15 (different numbers, one for sueprcharger?)

Saloons/hatches:

• 2006 Ford Fusion SEL V6 = 14
• 2006 Mazda 3 hatch = 14
• 2006 Mazda 6 V6 = 20
• 2003 BMW 525i = 19
• 2004 VW Jetta GLI = 17
• 2004 Audi A4 3.0 = 16
• 2004 Audi A6 = 19

Ok so do you see a pattern emerging here? Plus, I mean, WTF, a GTO/Vette is LESS INSURANCE THAN CARS WITH LESS POWER? Oh and the WRX STi number is just insane...it's rated the same as a Dodge Viper and a Ferrari 355...WTF? To gauge where I would be today if I had a 19 symbol'd car, it would be $1300 per 6 months with the three points. Don't even ask how much a 22 rating is...oh ok it's over $1800...and the Subaru being over $2000. Rip off...

So, let's discuss (and maybe bash?) the car insurance companies shall we?

 

[Tornado]

Hah hah. A Trans Am WS6 being rated less than an STi?
(looks over list again)
Being rated the same as a Mustang GT?
​

 

[JCE]

You are telling me...now my want list has TOTALLY SHIFTED. I might actually have to get a *cough*GM*cough/die* product. I can't imagine me owning another Corvette after I GAVE mine away (to my mom). But hell, the C5 is a great car to tune to get massive power and is quite good looking. I'd just have to do something with the hideous interior.

 

[IMADreamer]

Welcome to the club. I am in the same age bracket as you and looking for a fun car to drive. It's painful. When I went to talk to my insurance guy about cars he actually smiled when I named off the list I am considering. Asshole. He is totally taking a vacation on me this year.

 

[JCE]

Welcome to the club. I am in the same age bracket as you and looking for a fun car to drive. It's painful. When I went to talk to my insurance guy about cars he actually smiled when I named off the list I am considering. Asshole. He is totally taking a vacation on me this year.

Well maybe we could help each other out. If you find a great coupe for around $15-20k that has a symbol rating of less than 19/20 let me know. I do love the GTO but I'd rather have something else first...second hand GTO's in my price range are probably going to be beaten to hell.

 

[Pupik]

Gotta link for those ratings?

Face it, if you're an under-25 male, you are an insurance risk, no matter what. The very fact you're looking for a performance car is reason enough to an insurance agent's eyebrow. Think for a moment; you're paying $2000-3000/year to insure a car worth $30,000-40,000. If it's a total loss due to an accident, they're not exactly making a profit...until you're older and wiser.

How many drivers under the age of 35 even own a Viper or a Corvette? Not many many, maybe 5% of the total number sold are bought by youthful drivers. But many more are bought by seasoned drivers, and they aren't treated like daily drivers since the average Viper/Corvette buyer has other machinery to drive the kids (or their dates) around.

 

[JCE]

Gotta link for those ratings?

Face it, if you're an under 25 male, you are an insurance risk, no matter what. The very fact you're looking for a performance car is reason enough to an insurance agent's eyebrow. Think for a moment; you're paying $2000-3000/year to insure a car worth $30,000-40,000. If it's a total loss due to an accident, they're not exactly making a profit...until you're older and wiser.

Did you skip the paragraph portions of my post? No biggie. I explain that I'm 26 (and in 4 months 27) and I got the symbol ratings directly from my insurance agent in person. And, I have a good relationship with my agent, she's insured other family members for years--she didn't "raise an eyebrow" when I was talking to her about my list. Infact she recommended I checkout the Corvette herself! She said "You will be very surprised". The cars that I asked for will price inbetween $15k-25k...and nothing over $30k. And by the way it's not like it used to be, 16-18 yearold girls are the number 1 accident group followed by 16-18 yearold boys and then elderly people. Your insurance premium drops starting at age 20...at least that happend to me and every one I know here in Texas. May be different in other states. 👍

 

[///M-Spec]

I don't see a problem here. Insurance companies are in the business of mitigating risk. The amount of risk each driver represents is in part, affected by the type of vehicle he or she chooses to drive. Certain types of cars are simply more likely to end up in a claim than others.

I'm not surprised one bit that a WS6 represents a greater risk than a C5. T/As in general are marketed towards, and bought by younger drivers who historically are less experienced and more likely to take risks and end up with the shiny side down. Personally I can't remember the last time I saw a Vette being driven by anything other than a conservative looking middle aged person doing 5 under the speed limit. (on the road that is.. )

Instead of being upset at the insurance companies, maybe you should be upset at all the no talent #$%-clowns who have bought, driven and wrecked the kind of cars you would like to own.


M

 

[a6m5]

Instead of being upset at the insurance companies, maybe you should be upset at all the no talent #$%-clowns who have bought, driven and wrecked the kind of cars you would like to own.

Michael Bolton wrecked an STi?

I do have beef with the insurance companies, also. I do agree with what M-Spec said, but in my case, it's the speeding tickets. If you speed, but if you never get in an accident, I don't think your premium should go up.

 

[Tornado]

You know there are legal ways around that that many insurance companies are forced to follow, right?

 

[IMADreamer]

Well maybe we could help each other out. If you find a great coupe for around $15-20k that has a symbol rating of less than 19/20 let me know. I do love the GTO but I'd rather have something else first...second hand GTO's in my price range are probably going to be beaten to hell.

Will do. I hear you on the GTO. It's a fun drive but I just am not leaning that way right now. I have found some in the mid 20s for good shape but I am just afraid to pull the trigger on one.

 

[YSSMAN]

A quick story, By Brad:

One uppon a time, I almost bought a 1997 VW Jetta GLX VR6. Before going and buying the car, I decided to meet with my State Farm dude, and much to my surprise, the car was rated as a 19... Yes, a God damned 19! That means that my little Jetta would cost as much to insure as a Corvette for God's sake!

My Jetta I ended up buying, a 1996 Wolfsburg, is a 14 and it is still quite expensive to insure. Granted, I'm 19, male... Prime target for insurance companies. But I was clicking around the other day, and I was surprised to find that the Mazda Miata is cheaper to insure than my Jetta, and a Camaro is just a few bucks more.

 

[JCE]

I don't see a problem here. Insurance companies are in the business of mitigating risk. The amount of risk each driver represents is in part, affected by the type of vehicle he or she chooses to drive. Certain types of cars are simply more likely to end up in a claim than others.

I'm not surprised one bit that a WS6 represents a greater risk than a C5. T/As in general are marketed towards, and bought by younger drivers who historically are less experienced and more likely to take risks and end up with the shiny side down. Personally I can't remember the last time I saw a Vette being driven by anything other than a conservative looking middle aged person doing 5 under the speed limit. (on the road that is.. )

Instead of being upset at the insurance companies, maybe you should be upset at all the no talent #$%-clowns who have bought, driven and wrecked the kind of cars you would like to own.


M

I agree 100% to what you are saying, however, I think a persons driving record should accord for more than it does. I really think there needs to be a better way to gauge and rate drivers and motor vehicles than the current system. There are NO rewards for good driving and PLENTY of bad things that happen to people with either bad luck or bad drivers. There has to be fairness and balance in my opinion.....

You know there are legal ways around that that many insurance companies are forced to follow, right?

Please do tell. I'm real close to just buying a $2000 POS and dropping a new engine in it. I don't want to go BACK in time for power.

Michael Bolton wrecked an STi?

I do have beef with the insurance companies, also. I do agree with what M-Spec said, but in my case, it's the speeding tickets. If you speed, but if you never get in an accident, I don't think your premium should go up.

Well actually when you speed you are supposedly putting people at risk. The cops that give people tickets for doing a respectable amount over the speed limit when the driver isn't doing anything immediately dangerous is an asshole. If you go 10mph over and all you are doing is driving on a freeway you do not deserve to get pulled over. Now if you drive 10mph over and you are going lane to lane that warrants the ticket. Residental areas where the speed limit is 20mph-30mph should be strickly enforced along with school zones. But surface streets where the speed limit is 40mph-50mph should be better "policed". Me going 50mph on Park blvd in Plano TX (McLaren knows what I'm talking about) is actually 10mph over the speed limit, BUT, everyone else (just about) goes a healthy +5mph on top of that. Most of them are in SUVs and won't stay in the same lane and constantly try to get "one car ahead"--therefore putting other drivers at risk.

All this insurance crap has pissed me off for years...it's legalized extortion I think.

 

[Tornado]

No no, I was talking about insurance companies raising your premiums for speeding.

 

[a6m5]

I thought you might be talking to me, but I figured you were indeed talking to JCE. So, what is the secret?

 

[JCE]

Ok, I'm confuzzled. Start over?

 

[Tornado]

I'll PM you.

 

[Sniffs]

well, where are you getting these insurance numbers FROM? i thought that kind of thing was supposed to be classified so top secret that the US government can't get it?

here's an insurance ouch
in 94, for a 4 door sedan with minimum coverage, I got soaked for 2 grand a year

 

[a6m5]

well, where are you getting these insurance numbers FROM? i thought that kind of thing was supposed to be classified so top secret that the US government can't get it?

Here it is:

I went to my insurance agent's office today to politely ask for the symbol ratings of cars that I would be interested in...this being mostly sport coupes. Here's what I got...keep in mind the higher the symbol rating number the more the insurance.

 

[Tornado]

I pay $1500 a year for my Blazer, which is half of what it is said to be worth (granted, it's full coverage, but still).
Edit: You know, all things considering, my insurance isn't that bad (considering I'm only 16).
Edit 2: Misplaced the "5"

 

[YSSMAN]

$1600-2200 for my Jetta. Thankfully my parents and I worked out a deal so I can save $50 a month on my insurance bills...

 

[JCE]

$1600-2200 for my Jetta. Thankfully my parents and I worked out a deal so I can save $50 a month on my insurance bills...

Lucky SOB.

I pay $1500 a year for my Blazer, which is half of what it is said to be worth (granted, it's full coverage, but still).
Edit: You know, all things considering, my insurance isn't that bad (considering I'm only 16).
Edit 2: Misplaced the "5"

But that's on your parent's insurance isn't it? At least if you are 16 like your profile says that's my estimation. I'd kill for $750 per 6 months...

 

[Tornado]

No. My parents have a...less than perfct driving record (they frequently tested the top speed of rental cars. Did you know the Dodge Shadow had no speed limiter?).
My insurace is so low because of academic achievments (lord knows why, but thats what my parents said.), I drive an old but in good condition car ('94 Blazer, which lowers my "claims risk"), lifestyle choices (I'm enroll in community service and am a near-Eagle boy scout), driving schools (I've enrolled in a defensive and passed an advanced drivers course through my school) but mostly because my uncle works for the insurance company I use (a local one). That was what took off about 1/3 of the price. He said if it weren't for that part, it still would have been $2200 a year. Without all of the other stuff, it would have been $2700 a year.

 

[harrytuttle]

I'm up around $3,200. Suburbs outisde New York City, a Subaru STI, and I got caught enjoying the car too much once or twice. No accidents, but people have hit me a few times...while I wasn't even in the car. Those "accidents" had to be reported because although I had witnesses, the drivers fled both times.

The kicker is this: I'm over 30. What am I missing here? Is it just the car and the tickets? I thought the days of $2500+ insurance were gone years ago.

 

[JCE]

I'm up around $3,200. Suburbs outisde New York City, a Subaru STI, and I got caught enjoying the car too much once or twice. No accidents, but people have hit me a few times...while I wasn't even in the car. Those "accidents" had to be reported because although I had witnesses, the drivers fled both times.

The kicker is this: I'm over 30. What am I missing here? Is it just the car and the tickets? I thought the days of $2500+ insurance were gone years ago.

See, you're over 30 and because the STi is rated a 26 you pay out the ass regardless of the points on your driving record. Is that $3200 a year or 6 months? Either way it's way too high...

 

[Kylehnat]

I don't see a problem here. Insurance companies are in the business of mitigating risk. The amount of risk each driver represents is in part, affected by the type of vehicle he or she chooses to drive. Certain types of cars are simply more likely to end up in a claim than others.

*applause* Why are you not at the top of a mountain somewhere?

My sister works for Safeco Insurance. Part of her job is to examine and calculate premiums. Everything is justified. They're not just pulling numbers out of their ass to screw you over. You want to know why STi's have huge premiums? Because the fanboys trying to race/drift them tend to end up with damage.

 

[JCE]

*applause* Why are you not at the top of a mountain somewhere?

My sister works for Safeco Insurance. Part of her job is to examine and calculate premiums. Everything is justified. They're not just pulling numbers out of their ass to screw you over. You want to know why STi's have huge premiums? Because the fanboys trying to race/drift them tend to end up with damage.

The numbers may be justified to an extent...but logic dictates that if a kid can get a $30k STi they can get ahold of a GTO or Corvette. And also my point is still valid about GOOD drivers getting rewarded with reductions in premiums. When I had 0 points on my record I got no breaks, that just plain sucks.

 

[a6m5]

Still, aren't the insurance companies generalizing to a extreme? I've had two claims since I started driving.

1) First one was not my fault. I was on the main road when some old guy came in from the "T" intersection and broadsided me.

2) During the windstorm, I had a bright idea to park my car in front of a portable basketball hoop(kind you park on a driveway). Hoop went thru the front windshield.

My last claim was probably 10 years ago or so. But if I got STi today, I will be paying some crazy premium, because bunch of idiots wreck their STi's. How about going by my driving record, instead of what other people did with the car. IMO, judging drivers mainly by the cars they drive is almost as bad as judging people by "signs" or their blood types.

 

[Kylehnat]

The numbers may be justified to an extent...but logic dictates that if a kid can get a $30k STi they can get ahold of a GTO or Corvette.

But kids don't. Insurance companies look at what actually happens, not theoreticals. Hence, the STi has a higher mark than a GTO or Corvette, which are typically driven by older men who aren't as likely to wreck them.

 

[JCE]

But kids don't. Insurance companies look at what actually happens, not theoreticals. Hence, the STi has a higher mark than a GTO or Corvette, which are typically driven by older men who aren't as likely to wreck them.

But you aren't denying that I have a point? It just defies all my instincts to buy another Corvette...but it seems I might. I don't know, all this insurance crap has just made me even more confused...