Force Feedback - How bout giving us more control?

[Zevious Z]

In GT5, with the FF set at the lowest intensity, some cars are good, and some are pretty much un driveable (the Red Bull X for instance) because the FF is so intense it bounces the table my wheel is attached to all around my living room. In PC sims you can adjust the FF from nearly nothing all the way up to ridiculously over-bearing. It would also be nice to be able to save FF settings for individual cars just like brake balance...

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Its not the force feedback so much as it is the lack of dead zone setting.

I could never drive anything with the FFB set that low. Instead I set it to 70 or so in the game and 50 or so on my wheel [Fanatec Elite] then on cars like the X1 I add 20 or more deadzone which helps removing the center shake on makes the car more drivable.

 

[VBR]

Like in virtually every other area of their games, PD don't do options. I doubt anything will change in this regard for GT6.

 

[eran0004]

Like in virtually every other area of their games, PD don't do options.

There could be more options, but it's a bit harsh to say that there are no options at all.

 

[Stephanos82]

Its not the force feedback so much as it is the lack of dead zone setting.

I could never drive anything with the FFB set that low. Instead I set it to 70 or so in the game and 50 or so on my wheel [Fanatec Elite] then on cars like the X1 I add 20 or more deadzone which helps removing the center shake on makes the car more drivable.

Adding deadzone to my CSR Elite renders the car undriveable! Have you got massive ffb problems with f4 bytheway?

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

I was using the Firmware 721 on the Elite in both FM4 and GT5. If I use a setting of 0 for deadzone on FM4 both on the wheel and in the game there is still just a little slack in the steering but not so much that it causes a problem. On GT5 it depends on the car some cars are fine at 0 others need a little, others need more and a few like the X1 need a lot.

If adding a bit of deadzone makes it undriveable then I would think it is due to the combination of the DEA with some other setting you are using differently from me. I the other stuff like lin, spring, damper and drift all set to 0 or off. No real issues when settings some deadzone on various cars.

No I do not have any massive FFB issues with any Forza or GT title I have tried. FFB is weaker on Forza than GT I solve that by setting the FFB in game to 100 in Forza and 70 in GT. Forza also triggers the vibration in the wheel which can be adjusted with the SHO setting on the wheel which I usually set to around 50 or so. The only issues with Forza and the wheel are some times the wheel seems to loose connection to the Xbox and the wheel has to be rebooted, or the chat will mess up and have to be rebooted. Sometimes the sensitivity does not seem to sync up properly with the game and is another case where a reboot of the wheel is required.

Those are the biggest issues and they really do not happen all that much, on rare occasions I may have to restart my wheel 2 or 3 times in one evening and on others I may go a week or more without needing to. I think the issue is related to the wireless link of the Xbox itself as I had issue with the MS Wheel as well.

The most annoying thing is the little bit of deadzone that can not be tuned out in Forza as opposed to the lack of deadzone in GT

 

[Johnnypenso]

In GT5, with the FF set at the lowest intensity, some cars are good, and some are pretty much un driveable (the Red Bull X for instance) because the FF is so intense it bounces the table my wheel is attached to all around my living room. In PC sims you can adjust the FF from nearly nothing all the way up to ridiculously over-bearing. It would also be nice to be able to save FF settings for individual cars just like brake balance...

Not only do we need more FF options but we could also use some sound options, which would allow us to emphasize or mute engine sounds, transmission, tire squeal, wind etc. There's no reason those things can't be customized because they are all separate samples within the game. This is already done on a non-programmable way through the different views.

 

[poumpoum]

In GT5, with the FF set at the lowest intensity, some cars are good, and some are pretty much un driveable (the Red Bull X for instance) because the FF is so intense it bounces the table my wheel is attached to all around my living room. In PC sims you can adjust the FF from nearly nothing all the way up to ridiculously over-bearing. It would also be nice to be able to save FF settings for individual cars just like brake balance...

This is a really good idea 👍 I also would like to add a wheel rotation angle option for each car and it will be perfect.

 

[VBR]

There could be more options, but it's a bit harsh to say that there are no options at all.

I didn't say that there are no options at all. I just said "PD don't do options", as in a general rule of thumb.

 

[varmintx]

Its not the force feedback so much as it is the lack of dead zone setting.

I could never drive anything with the FFB set that low. Instead I set it to 70 or so in the game and 50 or so on my wheel [Fanatec Elite] then on cars like the X1 I add 20 or more deadzone which helps removing the center shake on makes the car more drivable.

You should leave the FFB on the wheel at 100 and adjust the in-game down to where you like it.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

You should leave the FFB on the wheel at 100 and adjust the in-game down to where you like it.

No, I don't think so.

2 reasons. I used both the PS3 and Xbox 360 and they have different levels of FFB. If I set the FFB in GT to 70 and in Forza at 100 then I get about the same amount of FFB on the wheel in either game when the wheel is at the same setting. I also like to be able to adjust the FFB on the fly and the best way to do this is to keep the game set high and alter the setting on the wheel.

Of course you can do it either way but if you set it on the wheel to 100 and lower in the game then get in a car that you want more FFB on you have to exit the race, navigate the menus and change your in game setting then remember to do it again when you are done with that car.

Setting it on the wheel on the other hand you can have 5 stored and you can change it on the fly to any of the 5 or modify the one you have selected either by pausing the race or perhaps even on a straight if you are quick and careful.

 

[research]

Steering Deadzone: 1-100
Steering Saturation: 1-100
Steering Linearity: 1-100

^these three options make all the difference in the world.


Also the Force-Feedback setting DEFINITELY should be placed in the tuning screen for each car.

Lotus Elan: 2/10
Mitsubishi 3000GT: 9/10

...and so on

 

[varmintx]

No, I don't think so.

2 reasons. I used both the PS3 and Xbox 360 and they have different levels of FFB. If I set the FFB in GT to 70 and in Forza at 100 then I get about the same amount of FFB on the wheel in either game when the wheel is at the same setting. I also like to be able to adjust the FFB on the fly and the best way to do this is to keep the game set high and alter the setting on the wheel.

Of course you can do it either way but if you set it on the wheel to 100 and lower in the game then get in a car that you want more FFB on you have to exit the race, navigate the menus and change your in game setting then remember to do it again when you are done with that car.

Setting it on the wheel on the other hand you can have 5 stored and you can change it on the fly to any of the 5 or modify the one you have selected either by pausing the race or perhaps even on a straight if you are quick and careful.

Someone please help me out here. There is a good reason to leave the FFB set to 100; I just can't remember exactly what it was. Something to do with the adjustment on the wheel not being linear...maybe?

I play both games as well and changed the FFB in-game for both. You are correct that if you're constantly changing the FFB, then I guess you might as well just keep doing what you're doing.

 

[Spagetti69]

Someone please help me out here. There is a good reason to leave the FFB set to 100; I just can't remember exactly what it was. Something to do with the adjustment on the wheel not being linear...maybe?

I think your referring to Sonacs benchmark testing. Basically he found that the Fanatecs clipped some effects when dialling down the FF on the wheel.

The ideal way is to run the wheel FF at 100 and dial down FF in game to avoid certain FF loses.

 

[varmintx]

I think your referring to Sonacs benchmark testing. Basically he found that the Fanatecs clipped some effects when dialling down the FF on the wheel.

The ideal way is to run the wheel FF at 100 and dial down FF in game to avoid certain FF loses.

Thanks if for no other reason than proving I haven't totally lost my mind.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

I think your referring to Sonacs benchmark testing. Basically he found that the Fanatecs clipped some effects when dialling down the FF on the wheel.

The ideal way is to run the wheel FF at 100 and dial down FF in game to avoid certain FF loses.

Interesting... I'll give it a try and see if I can tell any difference. I know at one time I was using 100 in game and on the wheel but that caused some issues with the TurboS wheel after driving for a while. I think it was getting to hot and caused the feedback to cut out then back in real quick resulting in a kick now and then while turning. lower FFB setting on the wheel corrected the issue.

I will try the 100 on the wheel and lower in game to see what I can tell though if that is indeed better then that would be the way to go.

 

[smskeeter23]

I'd actually like STRONGER ffb for the G27. I sort miss fighting with the veracity of my old DFGT lol

On the other hand the X1 is kind of ridiculous in the ffb department.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

I'd actually like STRONGER ffb for the G27. I sort miss fighting with the veracity of my old DFGT lol

On the other hand the X1 is kind of ridiculous in the ffb department.

I have a DFGT as well and prior to that I was using a MS wheel on the 360. I was quite impressed with the FFB of the DFGT at first. I then got a Fanatec Turbo S and used it for a while. I went back to the DFGT and would have swore the FFB was down to 50% or less but it was at 100% just felt weak after the Turbo S. I then got a Fanatec Elite and used that for almost a year when I started getting a odd electronic squeal from the radio when connected to the 360. I set up the Turbo S and ran a race. The first corner I hit I thought the FFB must be set lower on this wheel because it felt so soft so I looked at the settings and it was set higher than what I use on the Elite about 20% higher but felt about 20% weaker.

It is fun to watch the look on my friends face the first time they try to turn the wheel which is almost always before the car starts to move and even at 50% there is a lot of resistance on the wheel in that state. Some of them will reach over from the side with one hand and try to turn it then have to add another hand

 

[smskeeter23]

I have a DFGT as well and prior to that I was using a MS wheel on the 360. I was quite impressed with the FFB of the DFGT at first. I then got a Fanatec Turbo S and used it for a while. I went back to the DFGT and would have swore the FFB was down to 50% or less but it was at 100% just felt weak after the Turbo S. I then got a Fanatec Elite and used that for almost a year when I started getting a odd electronic squeal from the radio when connected to the 360. I set up the Turbo S and ran a race. The first corner I hit I thought the FFB must be set lower on this wheel because it felt so soft so I looked at the settings and it was set higher than what I use on the Elite about 20% higher but felt about 20% weaker.

It is fun to watch the look on my friends face the first time they try to turn the wheel which is almost always before the car starts to move and even at 50% there is a lot of resistance on the wheel in that state. Some of them will reach over from the side with one hand and try to turn it then have to add another hand

Ya I think the big issue is that the G27 is just so much smooter in response than the DFGT.

I started getting a noise in my G27 the other night too... weird.

 

[sinbad]

Gran Turismo should offer all the options any PC sim offers, if it truly claims to be a sim. Instead, with GT5 they just say "Got this wheel? Here are two presets to choose from", which for wheels with no built in setting changes is not good.

It's aimed at the people that don't know a deadzone from an endzone but it's rubbish for anyone that knows what good FFB is like on a PC sim.

You NEED to be able to adjust/remove all deadzones, set linearity, set max wheel rotation. Just have a "show advanced options" button. I only have a dfgt but the FFB and general wheel feel in GT5 just ruined it for me.

 

[danardif1]

Shouldn't you keep the FFB the same for all cars you drive? Surely it's then the driving physics that dictate how the car feels...

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Shouldn't you keep the FFB the same for all cars you drive? Surely it's then the driving physics that dictate how the car feels...

I think that depends on the car, the driver and how you want to drive. In my case I have some issue with the right shoulder and there are times when it is to painful to drive with the FFB set high but I like it high when I can tolerate it. Some cars are much worse than others as well. The X1 was the worst and the karts can get pretty bad on a bumpy track.

 

[Zevious Z]

I'm using the trusty old red MOMO wheel. Its a well constructed piece of gear, but it isn't built to the standards of a real car. The force effects in some of the cars (the aforementioned X1 in particular) are awful. I'm concerned about damaging the wheel, and my wrists. lol. Frankly, I find it hard to understand why PD wouldn't allow for more adjustability in this area. I have to assume some of the guys on the dev team would have felt the way I (and quite a few others apparently) do about some of the cars and would have said "hey, we need to allow these effects to be dialed down a bit more because this just isn't fun at all!"

 

[Cote Dazur]

csr-elite-wheel-benchmarked

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Very interesting. I had not noticed that maybe because I have had the wheel below 100 the whole time after the TurboS showed signs of overheating and 100% wheel and game settings.

I was running FW 721 which seemed ok in FM4 but then when I started playing GT5 with it I starting having centering issues. The wheel seemed fine but after I would drive one of the seasonals the center would be off a bit near 1 O'Clock. It still worked fine but not centered. I could restart the wheel and the center went back to normal but after one race the same would happen again.

In FM4 I had noticed this as well but only when I was drifting.

Anyway I updated the firmware to 757 a few days ago and ran a couple of races on FM4 and it seems a bit odd the vibrator motors are causing what would be best described as a thumping when driving almost like you might feel if you had a tiny flat spot on your front tire. Haven't tried it in GT yet since the update.

Anyone else experience either of these things?

 

[danardif1]

I think that depends on the car, the driver and how you want to drive. In my case I have some issue with the right shoulder and there are times when it is to painful to drive with the FFB set high but I like it high when I can tolerate it. Some cars are much worse than others as well. The X1 was the worst and the karts can get pretty bad on a bumpy track.

I can understand adjusting the FFB for personal comfort, but my point is more that cars like the X1 and the go-karts should be that difficult. There are massive forces going throught the front suspension (in the kart's case the lack of any suspension) that would make the steering harder and the FFB work more powerfully.

Adjusting FFB when driving a Mazda MX5 and then changing it when going to a... Ferrari 458 isn't going to give a consistent experience of what the different feeling those cars give is like.

Find a FFB level that is suitable for your comfort and leave it there. That way you'll experience the best of GT5 and any driving game.

*This isn't directed at you specifically HBR as your points about driver comfort and tolerance make complete sense.

 

[Zevious Z]

the setting that I find comfortable/useable in some cars is not suitable in others.

I don't really believe that the force effects present in the X1 represent what that car would "really" feel like. I think the reason its like that is becuase the FF is set up to work more or less within the parameters of a car that fits somewhere into reality and the X1 is essentially a goofy extrapolation of reality that basically is far enough outside the normal parameters that it actually "breaks" the FF...

 

[research]

Sorry to break this to you, danardif1, but PD has not programmed all of these cars to give us different feelings of strength, weight, power/non-power steering, etc. individually.

Turning the wheel of a superlight Lotus Elan should feel NOTHING like the heavy feel of a two-ton monster like a Mitsu 3000GT. Yet, in gran turismo, they are identical in feedback strength. I agree with you that PD should like to have the differences programmed- but that would surely cost a LOT of man-hours that they clearly don't have to spare.

The experience is a little too consistent right now, bro. The best option at this point is to create FFB settings for each car in the tuning screen, and let the user set and save them to his liking- opening up a whole new dimension of enjoyment and creating a fuller experience with all of these fantastic automobiles.

 

[poumpoum]

Did someone catch some news about that ?

I was playing gt5 last night and I had forgotten how painful it was to exit the lobby each time you change your car in order to modify wheel FFB options. I really hope something about that in gt6 and also a feature that let us change wheel rotation angle. But I didn't find anything about that..