Force-feedback not informative enough?

[CodeCmdr]

I just did some time-trials on that Croatian race track with the MX-5 with all assists except ABS turned off. Its rear keeps spinning out quite suddenly in fast corners when I hold down the throttle, as if the track were wet. Just before the rear loses traction, my wheel gets light, as it should, but it happens too quickly, in my opinion. An MX-5 with slicks shouldn't lose traction so quickly on a dry surface.

I'm not sure of the tire physics aren't simulated well, or if the force-feedback implementation isn't very good. I've got a T150, which isn't spectacular, but even so, in F1 2017 and PCars2 the transition to traction-loss can be felt through the wheel early enough for me to be able to ease off the throttle and/or counter-steer. In GTS I keep spinning out like a total n00b.

Am I the only one who's a bit disappointed by the tire-feel/FFB?

 

[Johnnypenso]

I just did some time-trials on that Croatian race track with the MX-5 with all assists except ABS turned off. Its rear keeps spinning out quite suddenly in fast corners when I hold down the throttle, as if the track were wet. Just before the rear loses traction, my wheel gets light, as it should, but it happens too quickly, in my opinion. An MX-5 with slicks shouldn't lose traction so quickly on a dry surface.

I'm not sure of the tire physics aren't simulated well, or if the force-feedback implementation isn't very good. I've got a T150, which isn't spectacular, but even so, in F1 2017 and PCars2 the transition to traction-loss can be felt through the wheel early enough for me to be able to ease off the throttle and/or counter-steer. In GTS I keep spinning out like a total n00b.

Am I the only one who's a bit disappointed by the tire-feel/FFB?

Which compound are you using? Can you post a video?

 

[VBR]

The FFB in the closed beta was a small step backwards from GT6, but the FFB in this demo is a giant leap back from GT6. It's absolutely :censored:ing absymal! All the subtle nuances & feel you get from GT6 has completely gone, & has been replaced by what can only be described as the bastard child of every Codemasters game ever & Forza! It feels nothing like a sim, nor any previous GT games, but more like unrealistic arcade style FFB. I am utterly disappointed. The closed beta was ok, but I cannot even bear to put in another lap in this demo it's so bad. Tried several cars, on several different tracks, & all I can say is - OH DEAR!

🤬👎


EDIT: See post 8 in this thread...

 

[CodeCmdr]

Which compound are you using? Can you post a video?

I was using the default Sport Hard tires. Maybe I'm just not used to taking high speed corners, which the Croatian track has very many of, with the MX-5. My first test drive was at 8:00 in the morning and it looked like the track was slightly moist - maybe it really is and maybe that's why I was slipping so quickly?

I tried the MX-5 on that shorter track - forgot the name, I think it's in Japan - and I didn't have as much difficulty getting through those corners.

 

[Rodgerzzz]

Hope you guys don't mind me asking but what settings are you running for the wheels? I've got a T150 and the wheel is overly heavy no matter what you change.

 

[novcze]

The FFB in the closed beta was a small step backwards from GT6, but the FFB in this demo is a giant leap back from GT6. It's absolutely :censored:ing absymal! All the subtle nuances & feel you get from GT6 has completely gone, & has been replaced by what can only be described as the bastard child of every Codemasters game ever & Forza! It feels nothing like a sim, nor any previous GT games, but more like unrealistic arcade style FFB. I am utterly disappointed. .

So you are saying it was better in the beta and GT6 (I didn't play neither)?

I wanted GTS to be good and it is in its own way, graphics are second to none, presentation is great, everything is polished and it simply works but I can't properly drive in it, because I have zero feeling of the car ... grip, brakes and basically everything you need to be consistent on the track.

 

[luv2drive]

Hope you guys don't mind me asking but what settings are you running for the wheels? I've got a T150 and the wheel is overly heavy no matter what you change.

I've got a G29 and I'm having the same thing, if by "heavy" you mean very "stiff" and requiring undo pressure to steer. I only played for a short time and haven't experimented with settings yet, so I'm interested if this is just an "out-of-the-box" setting that can be adjusted to be more comfortable.

Very curious to see what others' experiences are with this

 

[VBR]

I wanted GTS to be good and it is in its own way, graphics are second to none, presentation is great, everything is polished and it simply works but I can't properly drive in it, because I have zero feeling of the car ... grip, brakes and basically everything you need to be consistent on the track.

I've got a G29 and I'm having the same thing, if by "heavy" you mean very "stiff" and requiring undo pressure to steer. I only played for a short time and haven't experimented with settings yet, so I'm interested if this is just an "out-of-the-box" setting that can be adjusted to be more comfortable.

I've figured it out! With the G29 you need to set the first value to 4 & the second to 1. I think the game has heavily increased FFB to account for modern wheels that produce more torque, so to get the same feel we did in GT6 we need to scale it back down. I had both values set to 10 in GT6, & to get a similar feel in GT Sport I need to go from 10/10 to 4/1.

What I said still holds true if the FFB is set to high for the G29, this is because all you get is clipping which buries the detail. But at 4/1 it feels similar to GT6. Try it out.

 

[BIG CAROLINA]

I've figured it out! With the G29 you need to set the firt value to 4 & the second to 1. I think the game has heavily increased FFB to account for modern wheels that produce more torque, so to get the same feel we did in GT6 we need to scale it back down. I had both values set to 10 in GT6, & to get a similar feel in GT Sport I need to go from 10/10 to 4/1.

What I said still holds true if the FFB is set to high for the G29, this is because all you get is clipping which buries the detail. But at 4/1 it feels similar to GT6. Try it out.

Thanks and will try it tonight. I have a T150 and got to the point yesterday where I just unplugged my wheel and hooked up my controller.

 

[CodeCmdr]

Those Daihatsus in today's sport event give very poor understeer feedback and also feel like sailing boats. I have a T150, but I don't think it is at fault, because PCars1/2 and iRacing give me incredibly realistic feedback.

 

[llNovall]

I've figured it out! With the G29 you need to set the first value to 4 & the second to 1. I think the game has heavily increased FFB to account for modern wheels that produce more torque, so to get the same feel we did in GT6 we need to scale it back down. I had both values set to 10 in GT6, & to get a similar feel in GT Sport I need to go from 10/10 to 4/1.

What I said still holds true if the FFB is set to high for the G29, this is because all you get is clipping which buries the detail. But at 4/1 it feels similar to GT6. Try it out.

I'm on a G29, and I did the same thing. It totally changed the feel for the better. I'm using 3/2, and it feels great to me.

 

[rui10]

Thanks and will try it tonight. I have a T150 and got to the point yesterday where I just unplugged my wheel and hooked up my controller.

Hi, can you do me a favour and try what happens if you set 1 on both FF settings? the t150 became very light or is still tiring to turn?
Tank you very much

 

[Animera]

Same thing on my T300RS.
No feedback whatsoever, just steering resistance.
I turned the strength down to 1 and the other up to 8 but still nothing.

 

[Dani46]

I have a T300GTE and get the same feeling.
I just did some laps on dragon trail with the BMW M4, all aids off and abs on. I have no feeling for the car when I´m losing traction at the rear.
The force feedback for the road feels numb, like driving on a flat surface.

 

[EmArA]

Taking different approach so far (hooked up on the photo mode, Scapes & livery editor) but it is about time to put back my T300rs and check if the FFB is any different than the closed beta.
not expecting much but hopefully better than the closed beta and GT6.

 

[tavia4x4]

I'm on a G29, and I did the same thing. It totally changed the feel for the better. I'm using 3/2, and it feels great to me.

Same principle, I'm on 7/4 - Sensitivity up and FFB strength down seems to be the way to go.

 

[Diablo_rf]

T500RS here. The physics in this demo are broken and the FFB is very poor, unfortunately...
Just watch the throttle pedal, its on 50%, 130hp car, 3rd gear, and it kicks off like a car with 500hp, and after that its spining tires

 

[Dani46]

@Diablo_rf
Thats exactly what I was talking about. The FFB feels numb, i cant feel when I´m losing the rear, and when I lose it, it kicks in suddenly and very unrealistic.

 

[mattikake]

Yes G29 user here, and while the Mx5 felt fine initially with TC at 0 I'm getting the same issue. If you approach the limit slowly you can kind of feel the wheel go lighter, maybe even tug slightly the opposite way. It's very very slight. But if you approach the limit fast, it loses it fast.

What I have noticed it the higher power cars are much worse. There's that SLS GT3 in your garage. Try that. I get no feel for the traction whatsoever, presumably because the rears are spinning up even quicker.

FFB for the fronts are non-existent. You should feel the wheel twitch when you're on the limit on braking and it should go light when full lock-up. But it does neither. Likewise for FWD cars -There's no communication for wheels spinning under traction so I've generally stayed away from FWD cars.

However, kerbs and grass feedback works fine. It's almost as if the devs have decided this is more important for immersion.

 

[Sick Lenny]

G29 for me. I noticed too that PD is trying to amp up the car "weight shift" sensation through the wheel as wheel. It annoys me the level of effect at center when you feel it bouncing the wheel back and forth so strongly with the weight shift of the car. Not realistic to me.
With things like this and the often griped about excessive and too loud tire squeal I get the feeling they are trying to convey information that you normally only get sitting in a car (gforces from weight shift, sensation of loss of traction) by other means. Kinda like how games have to exaggerate motion using blur to get a sense of speed lost by no peripheral vision.
It's clever but I think they overdo it to the detriment of other things, and wish they would allow us to adjust such things to our liking.
And only two sliders for wheel FFB? Every other game gives you way more control than that.

 

[CodeCmdr]

T500RS here. The physics in this demo are broken and the FFB is very poor, unfortunately...
Just watch the throttle pedal, its on 50%, 130hp car, 3rd gear, and it kicks off like a car with 500hp, and after that its spining tires

Yup, that's what I found very strange with the MX-5. Full-throttle in 2nd would maybe kick out the rear suddenly IRL, but 3rd with 50% throttle shouldn't do that. The MX-5 is known for being very well-balanced, so I would've expected the rear to slide out very slowly; it should be very easy to catch and correct, but in GTS it happens very suddenly.

 

[novcze]

I've figured it out! With the G29 you need to set the first value to 4 & the second to 1.

These two values are FFB Max. Torque and FFB Sensitivity. I did more testing today with T300RS and set both to 1, it's better but still no feedback from the front wheels.

FFB for the fronts are non-existent. You should feel the wheel twitch when you're on the limit on braking and it should go light when full lock-up. But it does neither. Likewise for FWD cars -There's no communication for wheels spinning under traction so I've generally stayed away from FWD cars.

Exactly.

 

[mattikake]

^ It's annoying. It's not like we're asking for the wheels to do something they can't do.

Steering should be moderately heavy by default and get heavier as the suspension/downforce loads up the tyres and go lighter when lack of traction unloads the tyres. There, the requirement is so simple it can be explained in one sentence.

 

[novcze]

^ It's annoying. It's not like we're asking for the wheels to do something they can't do.

... and every serious racing game does it, because it is quite fundamental thing. Did you try oval racing, due to the lack of ffb it was not enjoyable at all for me.

 

[Wardez]

I'm on the T300 RS and I feel resistance can't be turned down enough. The '1' setting feels like it should be 60%. Hopefully an update to the full game can help this.

Ffb feel is pretty much just more of the same for GT. I've always run very little FFB in GT games and learned to rely on other cues (visual, audio) to let Mr know what the car's doing to pick up where the FFB is lacking. I don't excuse the bad ffb, but don't let it get in the way of going fast.

 

[BIG CAROLINA]

Hi, can you do me a favour and try what happens if you set 1 on both FF settings? the t150 became very light or is still tiring to turn?
Tank you very much

I tried it at 1 on both settings and the difference was minimal. Hopefully there are more than two FFB settings in the final version.
4 and 1 felt decent in slower cars but not so good when you get to the faster cars.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

I am using a G29 and set the ffb to minimum settings which I personally like better. I have been playing with the Mercedes -AMG GT GT3 '16 on the Dragon Tail- Seaside course with all aids off except traction control at "1" and ABS at default.

You can feel the weight of the car, coming out of slow corners in the lower gears you better put an egg under the go pedal because if you slam down the throttle she is going to snap out and spin which a higher HP car will do. You can feel the wheel lighten up a bit but listen to what the tires are telling you as the amount of "squealing" is telling you the traction loads at that time.

I really think that the cars drive like they should for the most part and steering, braking and acceleration all need to be done very smoothly for the best results. Of course this has no where near the car set up options on some other games but if you are looking to just hop on and just drive more than be crew chief this game should be pretty cool for most.

 

[Corsa]

The T150 FFB strength is plenty, like others are saying here I can't feel enough detail.

I revert back to PC2, I can feel everything down to individual wheel spin.
Example, Bathurst GT3...
The right rear spins up climbing the mountain and I feel that.

I'm just not sold on this "Driving is for everyone 7-77" design.

Damn right it should be difficult in certain areas to push a racecar toward the limit, hence the reason we have professional drivers.

The numb feeling makes everyone that can hit an apex fast, it takes away from the online battles.

I said it in another thread and I'll say it again here. In Project Cars 2 when I pass someone it feels like we just got into a backlot fight.
When I pass someone in GT Sport it feels like we just shook hands.

 

[novcze]

Did anything change in the full game or is it the same as in GTS demo?

 

[SeeNoWeevil]

I'm quite surprised to see this thread. I'm quite obsessive over FFB and generally tweak it indefinitely in both pCars and Assetto Corsa, trial the community configs and use mods to correctly set the level. I found the feedback on GTS to be very good, quite a similar feel to a correctly setup Assetto Corsa (a lot of the default levels are way off in that game). I can catch a slide almost instantly and push pretty hard, which is obviously the end goal of good feedback, Sure, it's lacking under braking. Miles better than Forza 7, which unplayable on a wheel imo.