Formula 1 Aramco Gran Premio De España 2021Formula 1
- Thread starter Jimlaad43
- 175 comments
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- 4,572
- Moscow
- Rage_Racer_VOLK
- RageRacer48
So kneeling is copyrighted as the BLM gesture?
And I don't get how expressing the honor and gratitude to those who sacrificed their lives for the victory over Nazism contradicts a stand against racism. The Nazis were racist to us, too, and in a lot worse way than African Americans have ever faced.
I don’t think Nikita coopted with anything since the kneeling gesture existed long before the modern BLM activists were born and it’s not patented by them.
Generally, I’d prefer to keep politics away from sports, but if kneeling against racism is an allowed (and practiced) thing, then Mazepin’s gesture should not be condemned or considered some kind of blasphemy.
Perhaps he chose a moment when he grabs the most attention, and when the others drivers used to kneel in the past.
- 87,368
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
He chose a moment of unity among his peers for a personal agenda instead of unity. That's literally the problem.
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- 119
- Rochester, England
This. It's commendable that he wanted to honour the war dead of Russia but taking the knee is something that has specific connotations and he instead chose to do it for a different reason. I don't see it as a massive issue per se but it's another sign of him just doing things his own way and separating himself from the rest of the grid. Personally I don't see why a message on the halo couldn't have been done; Williams did it for Murray Walker after all.
It's mad how after only four races he's managed to annoy that many drivers and have such a bad reputation already. It was frankly bizarre that Toto had to radio the race director directly to mention Mazepin and that Mazepin being a potential issue was discussed re race strategy. I don't know whether it's lack of ability resulting in him being unable to control the car, attitude or a mixture of both. He did have some successes in F2 so it's not like he's never raced before so it leads me to think it's an attitude problem. I guess the kid's father has more money than God and Haas' existence seems to be dependent on that money so he knows (short of too many penalty points) that he can do what he wants.
I have a feeling that whatever else happens, 2021 will be known as the Mazepin season. Ultimately I guess this reflects badly on Steiner. He can't really hide that Mazepin was brought in solely for his father's wealth (to be fair, he was pretty candid about that in Drive to Survive) and that's been counter-intuitive as it's made Haas a bigger laughing stock and I imagine Mazepin Sr. may not be overly keen to invest in (and indeed buy as is thought he will) the team if his son continues to be the pariah of the grid. The decline of Haas is a real shame, it's nice to have a link to Nascar on the grid.
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McLaren
Premium
- 45,560
- Texas
The Kimi one looks more like either an incident of both teams releasing their drivers at the same time with Kimi being quicker out the box or Mazepin's team not being aware the team next to them is giving their driver the okay before them.
I don't think the Norris one really counts if the reports are true that say Norris defended Mazepin with the stewards before he was penalized for it.
I missed what Mazepin did to LeClerc when it was live. I heard Charles say it just after Mazepin moved off to the outside of turn 4, so I'm guessing the incident happened just beforehand?
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
The Spanish Grand Prix of 1969 was a rather different affair. 100% of all 14 drivers were of star quality. But that didn't prevent Jackie Stewart from lapping the entire field at least twice, and 6 times in the case of John Surtees in in 5th.
By 1973, the starting field was 22, but the backmarkers Howden Ganley and Graham Hill were 5 and 8 seconds off the pace.
By '77, there were 25 qualifiers and 5 DNQ's, with the first 24 covered by 3 seconds.
The 2021 version of the Spanish GP may have seemed tedious with the same old cast of characters dominating as usual. But really it was better than most of what has happened in the past.
By 1973, the starting field was 22, but the backmarkers Howden Ganley and Graham Hill were 5 and 8 seconds off the pace.
By '77, there were 25 qualifiers and 5 DNQ's, with the first 24 covered by 3 seconds.
The 2021 version of the Spanish GP may have seemed tedious with the same old cast of characters dominating as usual. But really it was better than most of what has happened in the past.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
I'm not sure about this. Was it bizarre? Do the team bosses heckle RC throughout the race? If it's not unusual, and my feeling is that it's far more usual than we think, why make a 'thing' of it like this?
I get that Mazepin's a **** and I'm not going to argue otherwise but there's a bit of pantomime going on with F1 this season and Mazepin's playing right into the boo-hiss bit. Don't know who's playing Buttons.
- 13,057
- United Kingdom
Nobody has issues with him honouring fallen soldiers, it's a problem of time, place and method. All details can be found in my post earlier in the thread.
In Austria last year, the drivers who stayed on their feet as everyone else kneeled and gave similarly pathetic excuses gained just as much rightful criticism as Mazepin is getting here. It's just another part of the growing list of reasons he should not be on the grid.
- 119
- Rochester, England
Fair point. I think it's just odd for a driver to have such an awful reputation so early on that he's a talking point amongst the top teams and for Toto's message to be worthy of broadcast on TV. Being able to hear more radio comms is one of the reasons I wish we had F1TV here in the UK. I suppose ultimately, it's one thing for fans online to joke and make memes about drivers/teams but when it permeates to the actual grid then it's a sign that it's not normal. To be fair to Mazepin, he didn't do anything wrong and Wolff's message was pre-emptive but Mercedes were right to be anxious considering what happened with Perez and arguably his apparent lack of control over the car does make him a potential hazard. I think what made his behaviour towards Perez seem so unsportsmanlike was that, whilst it would have been wrong anyway, he wasn't engaged in a battle with anyone meaning he had no reason to ignore the blue flags as he wasn't going to gain from it.
I agree F1 has become a bit more of a circus and I wonder if it's the Drive to Survive factor. I thought the first couple of seasons were fascinating insights but the most recent series certainly felt more like reality TV than a documentary. Maybe that's also a way to explain his behaviour - he knows he's not going to get any fame due to skill on the grid so he's carving out a niche for himself as the villain of DtS Season Four?
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- 4,029
- Derbyshire, UK
- DG Silva
It's perfectly normal for the teams to ask/point out/hassle Race Control during the race, but normally it's broadcast via communication between the driver and the pit lane. I've not known it broadcast in this way, but Martin Brundle has said in the past that the pit lane are in contact with RC with a direct line to them.
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
It's a sad state of affairs when oafish pay drivers like Mazepin have to get involved. Too bad Haas is in such dire straits. Perhaps it would be best if Haas left and the field reduced to 18 cars?
All my favorite hero drivers are long in the past. But I've always respected Fernando Alonso since the time he demoted Michael Schumacher from the high seat of totally boring supremacy. However, and sad to say, unless he gets his act together, I can no longer rate him as among the current top ten.
All my favorite hero drivers are long in the past. But I've always respected Fernando Alonso since the time he demoted Michael Schumacher from the high seat of totally boring supremacy. However, and sad to say, unless he gets his act together, I can no longer rate him as among the current top ten.
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- 16,438
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
Yes, Haas really should leave the grid. It is laughable how bad they are and it would be better for everybody if Gene cut his loses and pulled out. I don't think Dimitry Mazepin should buy the team because it will be money down the drain and his son can't drive for ****; no amount of money will change that so it's a waste of time.
Haas aren't going to pull out now barring a complete financial catastrophe. They've put all their time and money into the 2022 chassis, that's why this years is absolute dog poop. It's last years already average car with no development other than what was required by the new regs.
If the 2022 car also turns out to be bad, then they might consider it.
If the 2022 car also turns out to be bad, then they might consider it.
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- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
- 119
- Rochester, England
I think the main question is what even is Haas these days? It was originally supposed to be a strong American presence in F1 and a way for Gene to branch out from Nascar. The impression I get from Drive to Survive (a series which must, admittedly, always been taken with a very heavy pinch of salt!) is that Gene's pretty much given up the ghost regarding F1, pulled the plug re funding and Steiner scrambled around at the end of the last season to save the team with 2022 being a final opportunity to show Gene it's still a worthwhile enterprise. I think Steiner saw Dimitry Mazepin as a Lawrence Stroll figure who would solve the financial issues and would be happy to buy the team to ensure his son's future in F1 if Gene did fully pull out. I think the current livery is pretty telling in that it's supposed to be an American team and yet a newcomer would be forgiven for thinking it was a Russian one.
I suppose the main issue for Haas/Steiner is this. I imagine Mazepin Sr.'s money is required for the future of the team (including car development) so that they can use 2022 as a last chance saloon year. However, by keeping Mazepin Jr. on the team's a laughing stock and given his lack of pace, it's doubtful with him driving that 2022 will be a great comeback for Haas. Mazepin's lack of pace also isn't good for PR when you've got two better drivers (Fittipaldi and Ilott) waiting in the wings so it's impossible to pretend that Mazepin was signed for his talent. It's a classic catch 22 really.
I think there's a wider point about the viability of independent teams in all of this. It seems it's just impossible for there to be truly competitive independent teams in F1 these days.
I was really looking forward to this season as a chance for comebacks from Alonso and Vettel, which sadly hasn't really happened. Fernando did have a great drive in Portugal though. It seems quali's his biggest issue at the moment. I still live in hope we may see an Alonso podium this year.
I suppose the main issue for Haas/Steiner is this. I imagine Mazepin Sr.'s money is required for the future of the team (including car development) so that they can use 2022 as a last chance saloon year. However, by keeping Mazepin Jr. on the team's a laughing stock and given his lack of pace, it's doubtful with him driving that 2022 will be a great comeback for Haas. Mazepin's lack of pace also isn't good for PR when you've got two better drivers (Fittipaldi and Ilott) waiting in the wings so it's impossible to pretend that Mazepin was signed for his talent. It's a classic catch 22 really.
I think there's a wider point about the viability of independent teams in all of this. It seems it's just impossible for there to be truly competitive independent teams in F1 these days.
I was really looking forward to this season as a chance for comebacks from Alonso and Vettel, which sadly hasn't really happened. Fernando did have a great drive in Portugal though. It seems quali's his biggest issue at the moment. I still live in hope we may see an Alonso podium this year.
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- 14,055
- Ireland
- driftking18594
- CiaranGTR94
I've started wondering about that myself, but I'd say another factor's at play: the pay wall. Why would you bother paying £/€20 for Sky Sports just to watch Hamilton shoot off into the distance, occasionally complain about his tyres and listen to David Croft and co. present it as an epic triumph against insurmountable odds? I feel like every race weekend the commentators just have to mention how Mercedes will be really be up against it, because either Lewis can't get the tyres working, Merc's low rake concept won't work as well around this track or that Honda have found some upgrade. I find myself reaching for the mute button as Lewis approaches the finish line and David Croft begins shouting.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
I have an answer:
Autosport
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It's part of the new media-friendly approach. Great, fascinating. Makes me uncomfortable about the strength of the media in sporting decisions. If F1's ever been about anything it's been about fastidious, almost-autistic attention to rules and protocol. The Formula.
I feel that's being eroded in all sorts of ways and that the last couple of years have been building a pressure wave that will sweep all tradition before it. Ah, I hope people still love F1 but I'm just not quite feeling it any more.
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