Formula 1 Azerbaijan Grand Prix 2021Formula 1

[McLaren]

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...l6FjNp3bRuQKofXqZYnpsPlf8wpH7bZIRuz6jOqJUzMZc

“The causes of the two left-rear tyre failures on the Aston Martin and Red Bull cars have been clearly identified. In each case, this was down to a circumferential break on the inner sidewall, which can be related to the running conditions of the tyre, in spite of the prescribed starting parameters (minimum pressure and maximum blanket temperature) having been followed.”

Are they saying both teams basically setup the tires incorrectly?

 

[Famine]

Are they saying both teams basically setup the tires incorrectly?

They seem to be saying something worse, which is that AM and RB actually met the prescribed conditions relating to minimum pressure and maximum blanket temperature, but then ran the tyres outside the conditions - in effect they met the test conditions (like the bendy rear wing) but it seems that the car can run outside of those limits in race conditions. Red Bull insists the cars "adhered to Pirelli’s tyre parameters at all times"...

There's a new technical directive "for monitoring operating conditions during a race weekend" as a result.

 

[Veinz]

Maybe the tires were just **** for this track.

 

[UnkaD]

It's obvious the starting conditions of the tires won't be constant throughout use, so if Pirelli wants them to remain within a specific window they should set the starting conditions well away from the extreme limits of those windows. I'm surprised they weren't already monitoring the compliance throughout the sessions. Seems like a no-brainer.

 

[ScottPuss20]

They seem to be saying something worse, which is that AM and RB actually met the prescribed conditions relating to minimum pressure and maximum blanket temperature, but then ran the tyres outside the conditions - in effect they met the test conditions (like the bendy rear wing) but it seems that the car can run outside of those limits in race conditions. Red Bull insists the cars "adhered to Pirelli’s tyre parameters at all times"...

There's a new technical directive "for monitoring operating conditions during a race weekend" as a result.

This knowledge completely changes the argument. So what, the failures we've seen over the years have happened because Pirelli failed to observe the tyres under race conditions? That's a revelation.

 

[DG_Silva]

Potentially (no pun intended) it could be because the teams were running the tyres below recommended pressures during the race - they could install blow-off valves, for example - but the current rules only mandate a minimum pressure at the time of installation onto the car; during the race, Pirelli have no way of checking this.

This is why it's been written into the 2022 specifications, Article 10.7.3 states: "All cars must be fitted with tyre pressure and temperature monitoring sensors which have been manufactured by an FIA designated supplier to a specification determined by the FIA.

"Wheel rims and tyre pressure and temperature sensors should be marked according to the corner colouring and labelling scheme defined in the Appendix to the Technical and Sporting Regulations."

In other words, every car will be fitted with TPS systems and there should be no way of breaching that minimum pressure, save for a large drop in ambient and track temperature. Quite what the punishment will be for failure to comply, I'm not sure but I guess it would be the same for any other technical breach - disqualification.

However, the thing to remember is that while Pirelli have always been a bit spikey when it comes to criticism of its products - understandable when you consider the position it's in, trying to develop tyres which wear quickly, but not sensitive to temperatures - it's funny that none of the tyre failures have been a failure of tyre, it's always been 'caused by debris', 'tyres being below pressure', ' tyres being used the wrong way around', or my own personal favourite 'well, you wanted fast wearing tyres'.

What I find amazing, and I appreciate that this is apples and oranges, is that despite the horrendous blistering that can occur on the Super Speedways, Firestone seem to produce tyres which don't self-destruct and are at least accepted/not complained about by the Indycar drivers in the same manner.

 

[TenEightyOne]

What I find amazing, and I appreciate that this is apples and oranges, is that despite the horrendous blistering that can occur on the Super Speedways, Firestone seem to produce tyres which don't self-destruct and are at least accepted/not complained about by the Indycar drivers in the same manner.

I think that's one of the arguments that Pirelli use - any other series that puts its tyres through anything like the same load (and those factors certainly are comparable) uses larger rims and has smaller sidewalls.

The sidewalls are doing a lot of work both towards the rim and away from it depending on the state of motion of the car at any given time. Pirelli have said for some time that the forces in modern F1 tyres are unsustainable with such large sidewalls. Given that there's been a delay in introducing the 18" rims while teams have continued to develop past the intended 'end' of the 13" rim era I think that we're seeing the sensible physical limit of what can be constructed within F1's design mandate.

 

[Tired Tyres]

What they are doing according to race YouTube channel is that they overheat tyre warmers overnight, put them on under pressure tyres, the temperature brings up the pressure to legal levels, they are measured for pressure at that point and then put them on the car and it goes out and the tyres return to the below pressure that isn't allowed.

That gets around the regulations but flexes the Sidewalls and risks what happened in the race. The teams doing it are taking liberties with their drives lives. A blowout caused by that at 200 mph has live ending risks. On purpose. They are running the tyres outside the safe limits. Max shouldn't have kicked his tyre. He should have kicked the team boss.

 

[TheElbows]

That's been my understanding as well. From a variety of sources, it seems it's a fairly typical case of F1 teams operating "by the book" while finding ways to change the conditions during the race, and thus running outside the suggested parameters.

One of those "Well it was fine when we tested it at that one point before the race...that one specific time it met your measurement." etc. Curious to see if this all pans out or what the repercussions continue to be.

 

[kungtotte_]

Max said that Red Bull supplied Pirelli with their onboard pressure data during the investigation, which he said was within limits the whole time.

He might have been misinformed, or he might have been lying to save their own asses, but that's what he said in an interview.

 

[NLxAROSA]

He might have been misinformed, or he might have been lying to save their own asses, but that's what he said in an interview.

Or he's simply telling the truth.

But whatever the case, the data should be out in the open so folks don't have to resort to (wrong) assumptions or (false) accusations.

 

[kungtotte_]

Or he's simply telling the truth.

But whatever the case, the data should be out in the open so folks don't have to resort to (wrong) assumptions or (false) accusations.

Yeah I'm leaning towards that explanation as well. If a team is cheating with pressures surely they would cheat both cars, but the teammates of the two punctured cars finished the race just fine.

 

[TenEightyOne]

surely they would cheat both cars, but the teammates of the two punctured cars finished the race just fine.

I'd split the strategy: one safe, one 'edge'.