Formula 1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2022Formula 1

[Veinz]

RB would rather have had 1-2 in the drivers. Otherwise they wouldn't have bothered asking Max to let Perez pass in Brazil. I'm also not sure why you're quoting his figures against Verstappen when we're talking about P2 in the championship anyway. Heaven forbid should Perez be allowed to challenge golden boy.

Max is their golden boy for a reason, those stats show it. If Perez wants to challenge him then he has to get better.

 

[McLaren]

I’m pretty sure Horner remarked once recently they would love 1-2 in the WCC bc it would be their first.

 

[Redneckchef]

Max is their golden boy for a reason, those stats show it. If Perez wants to challenge him then he has to get better.

It's not about Perez being able to challenge Max. Max is (whether I like him or not) one of those ultra fast generational talents. Perez isn't likely to challenge him. But it's relevant that Max seems to refuse even giving help or assistance to him for all the ways they use Perez to help Max for his title run. Perez has pulled over many times to let Max cruise through for extra points, places for strategy or wins. Letting him have something back is essential to prevent it becoming too toxic. Or would at least be the mature move.

 

[Veinz]

It's not about Perez being able to challenge Max. Max is (whether I like him or not) one of those ultra fast generational talents. Perez isn't likely to challenge him. But it's relevant that Max seems to refuse even giving help or assistance to him for all the ways they use Perez to help Max for his title run. Perez has pulled over many times to let Max cruise through for extra points, places for strategy or wins. Letting him have something back is essential to prevent it becoming too toxic. Or would at least be the mature move.

Perez had many other opportunities to score more points throughout the year but was often outperformed by better drivers in weaker cars. Expecting Max to drop back and likely give DRS to Leclerc is just not very smart.

 

[Famine]

15 wins a remarkable achievement to have on your resume, why would ANY driver want to risk throwing one of those away?

For the team.

14 wins is already a record. It's also Verstappen's record. The team's record is that it has never scored a driver 1-2 across a season - and now it still hasn't - but could have if Verstappen had been a team player at either of the final two races (had the Brazil result been one point in his favour it might have affected Abu Dhabi, but on math alone he's still a point behind).

As noted before, Michael Schumacher was one of the most ruthless, single-minded drivers out there, with a journeyman #2 to never threaten his wins. Once he was done winning his title, he'd always try and help the #2 to second in the championship where he could. It was never about Barrichello (or Irvine, or Herbert) being fast enough to keep up with him or challenge him, because that's not what they wanted. Perez is in the same position.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Max is their golden boy for a reason, those stats show it. If Perez wants to challenge him then he has to get better.

He'll never be allowed to, that's my point. It's irrelevant how good Perez is or could be. P2 is all he all be allowed to achieve alongside Verstappen and they couldn't even manage that. As @McLaren Said, RB wanted to secure 1-2 in the standings, Max' petulance in Brazil denied them that chance.

The overall point being the one I made earlier about reputation etc, but also, Verstappen has shown himself to be incredibly selfish, Red Bull have shown they lack actual authority over him which risks him becoming bigger than the team (never a good route to go) and literally every other team on the grid would have supported their 2nd driver better on this scenario, and many have.

 

[Redneckchef]

Perez had many other opportunities to score more points throughout the year but was often outperformed by better drivers in weaker cars. Expecting Max to drop back and likely give DRS to Leclerc is just not very smart.

Perez is forced to give up spots to Max and help him all year. Yes, he could have found ways to get those points otherwise, but maybe Max should go solo himself. It worked out well when he had Gasly or Albon as the #2. It's a matter of respect to me. If Max is unwilling to help Perez with his battle at the end of the year over a long grudge, why should Perez help Max at any point? What is his seat worth to him if he is going to be considered throwaway trash?

In that situation I think anyone expecting Checo's performance on track to improve when he knows there is literally nothing in it for him as the team and Max will abandon him is going to be disappointed. Why would he want to improve and work harder to help Max if he gets nothing in return for all his efforts?

 

[Veinz]

He'll never be allowed to, that's my point. It's irrelevant how good Perez is or could be. P2 is all he all be allowed to achieve alongside Verstappen and they couldn't even manage that. As @McLaren Said, RB wanted to secure 1-2 in the standings, Max' petulance in Brazil denied them that chance.

The overall point being the one I made earlier about reputation etc, but also, Verstappen has shown himself to be incredibly selfish, Red Bull have shown they lack actual authority over him which risks him becoming bigger than the team (never a good route to go) and literally every other team on the grid would have supported their 2nd driver better on this scenario, and many have.

His pace is not irrelevant at all, Max is on another planet. If Perez suddenly starts out performing Max in 2023 in the same way that Max is doing it now, RBR would definitely give him more support. It makes no sense not to.

 

[MagpieRacer]

His pace is not irrelevant at all, Max is on another planet. If Perez suddenly starts out performing Max in 2023 in the same way that Max is doing it now, RBR would definitely give him more support. It makes no sense not to.

It's irrelevant in the context you were talking about. Now you're talking about hypothetical future scenarios we know won't happen.

 

[McLaren]

As has been brought up in the past, is that why Checo was ordered to let Max through in Round 6 at Barcelona despite Checo saying, “That’s very unfair”. He was literally leading the race and told to give it up.

 

[Veinz]

As has been brought up in the past, is that why Checo was ordered to let Max through in Round 6 at Barcelona despite Checo saying, “That’s very unfair”.

The race when Max went off track, had an extra pit stop under his belt but still caught up to him with 1/3 of the race distance left? I wanted them to race too but I don't really blame them for making that call given how much faster max was while having drs problems.

2022 Lap Times grand prix Spanish Race

Formula 1 results Race Lap Times Spanish

en.mclarenf-1.com

 

[McLaren]

The race when Max went off track, had an extra pit stop under his belt but still caught up to him? I wanted them to race too but I don't really blame them for making that call given how much faster max was while having drs problems.

2022 Lap Times grand prix Spanish Race

Formula 1 results Race Lap Times Spanish

en.mclarenf-1.com

Then he should’ve raced him and passed him easily if he was that much faster. The point Magpie is making is valid; Checo literally has to ask to pass Max according to a radio message during Brazil. That’s nuts.

 

[Veinz]

Then he should’ve raced him and passed him easily if he was that much faster. The point Magpie is making is valid; Checo literally has to ask to pass Max according to a radio message during Brazil. That’s nuts.

Every other team on the grid would have made the same call, because it was the smart one to make.

 

[MagpieRacer]

The race when Max went off track, had an extra pit stop under his belt but still caught up to him? I wanted them to race too but I don't really blame them for making that call given how much faster max was while having drs problems.

2022 Lap Times grand prix Spanish Race

Formula 1 results Race Lap Times Spanish

en.mclarenf-1.com

So Max, who made an unforced error, had to be given the position twice by his team mate AND get switched to a favourable strategy, in order to win, deserved that race? No. Red Bull even said to Perez they would reverse the positions if Max failed to get last George, he couldn't get past, and they didn't swap the position back, instead putting Verstappen onto what at that point was a better strategy and hung Perez out to dry.

 

[Veinz]

So Max, who made an unforced error, had to be given the position twice by his team mate AND get switched to a favourable strategy, in order to win, deserved that race? No. Red Bull even said to Perez they would reverse the positions if Max failed to get last George, he couldn't get past, and they didn't swap the position back, instead putting Verstappen onto what at that point was a better strategy and hung Perez out to dry.

Like I said, I wanted them to race too. But it is what it is, it’s not the first time that has happened and it certainly won’t be the last. Any other team would have done the same.

It’s still no one else’s problem but Checo’s that he’s slower. If he doesn’t want to get moved out of the way then he needs to get faster, no excuses.

 

[GingerBredMan]

The bottom line is Horner gave assurances that Max would help Checo get P2 and didn’t, after Max said he was a good teammate which there’s hardly any evidence to support.

And now Checo has to deal with allegations of cheating in F1 and his personal life, all because his great teammate couldn’t let go of p6.

 

[McLaren]

Every other team on the grid would have made the same call, because it was the smart one to make.

It’s the fact he even asked…. If he’s quicker, race him.

 

[Veinz]

The bottom line is Horner gave assurances that Max would help Checo get P2 and didn’t, after Max said he was a good teammate which there’s hardly any evidence to support.

And now Checo has to deal with allegations of cheating in F1 and his personal life, all because his great teammate couldn’t let go of p6.

Well the pictures of him dancing real close with some woman at a club probably did not help that situation. Then theirs the crash that did look a little fishy, but I don't see what he had to gain besides staying ahead of Max. But then again even Sainz has come out and said that it's more common than we think and refused to comment on Perez. There's no smoke without a fire, if that turned out to be true then why should Max help him at all?

 

[MagpieRacer]

Well the pictures of him dancing real close with some woman at a club probably did not help that situation. Then theirs the crash that did look a little fishy, but I don't see what he had to gain besides staying ahead of Max. But even Sainz has comes out and said that it's more common than we think and refused to comment on Perez. There's no smoke without a fire, if that turned out to be true then why should Max help him at all?

Because its all speculation with zero evidence. People are allowed to dance with each other, the probability of crashing on a flat out lap on Monaco is very high, none of those things should impact how someone is viewed or treated by their team or teammate.

I hope Perez shows Max where to stick his team orders next year.

 

[Redneckchef]

Well the pictures of him dancing real close with some woman at a club probably did not help that situation. Then theirs the crash that did look a little fishy, but I don't see what he had to gain besides staying ahead of Max. But then again even Sainz has come out and said that it's more common than we think and refused to comment on Perez. There's no smoke without a fire, if that turned out to be true then why should Max help him at all?

And you can speculate like we can. So if those are reasons Max shouldn't help Perez after claiming he would, why should Perez ever help Max again after Max wrecks himself or spears another car because "it cost him the win but didn't hurt me?"

Max just just selfish and RB need to make him pull his head in. Otherwise they'll never get him another solid teammate or wingman. Anyone with skill and competence will avoid that team except as last resort as they know they will be treated like garbage.

 

[Veinz]

Because its all speculation with zero evidence. People are allowed to dance with each other, the probability of crashing on a flat out lap on Monaco is very high, none of those things should impact how someone is viewed or treated by their team or teammate.

I hope Perez shows Max where to stick his team orders next year.

I certainly wouldn’t appreciate seeing pics of my wife grinding on some dude on social media, but to each their own I guess. And tbf the crash did look suspicious, I have my doubts about it but who knows.

Also Sainz doesn’t seem like the kind of guy to just talk **** like this. Thats why I say there’s no smoke without a fire.

I hope Perez gets faster too.

 

[GingerBredMan]

Well the pictures of him dancing real close with some woman at a club probably did not help that situation. Then theirs the crash that did look a little fishy, but I don't see what he had to gain besides staying ahead of Max. But then again even Sainz has come out and said that it's more common than we think and refused to comment on Perez. There's no smoke without a fire, if that turned out to be true then why should Max help him at all?

The joke here is Checo didn’t even get pole. Max still set a record for wins in a season. And the championship was over with 4 races to go. So how significant was this moment in the grand scheme of things?

Checo also crashed in Q3 at Zandvoort, but Max got pole there so nothing suspicious.

And again, we’re talking about Checo dancing in a nightclub with a girl 5 months ago because Max couldn’t give up p6.

 

[NotThePrez]

Every other team on the grid would have made the same call, because it was the smart one to make.

In Barcelona? Sure, whatever. In Brazil, Checo had to ask over the radio if it was ok to pass his teammate who had already won the World Championship so that he could secure 2nd place in the WDC. Considering how much Checo helped Max this year in securing the championship (which also at least partially accounts for Checo's win/loss ratio this year) it would've literally been the least Max could've done for him, it would've cost him and RBR absolutely nothing big-picture wise, and it would've been amazing PR (and and possible later damage control) for Red Bull.

The fact that Checo even had to ask for permission to pass in that situation, and all the fallout that happened afterwards was both unnecessary and asinine.

 

[Redneckchef]

So I think it works out to a unanimous decision here on GTP. Those of us who thought Max should do more to help Perez get that P2 believe Chrco should say screw it and refuse to get out of Max's way any more.
And those die hard Max fans who believe he did nothing wrong and doesn't need to move out of the way have give the best answer as well, "he should just pass if he is faster anyway."

If Max is so fast Perez shouldn't get out of his way again, just make the pass since he is so much faster.