Formula 1 Road Cars

[Diego440]

These are two different articles I found on www.grandprix.com

Number 1:
MB Roadcars is a company established last year by Michael Blaize, a Formula 1 aerodynamicist (hey, I typed that on the first try!) who worked in the missile business prior to his involvement in the sport. The 31-year-old Frenchman has now produced a dramatic road car called the EOS (which stands for Exigence Of Speed) at his workshops in Brackley. Blaize has been assisted in his work by other F1 engineers, including composite expert Ian Thomson. The intention was to design and build a road car which would be engineered in the same way as a Formula 1 car, using state-of-the-art design techniques and advanced materials. Blaize says that the three-seater sports car "brings together the very best of motorsport and aerospace technologies into a distinctive and elegant concept". Powered by a V8 engine the car is designed to do zero to 60mph in 3.5secs and will get to a top speed of 200mph. The intention is to put the car into production - with a limit of 20 cars a year. These will retail at something in the region of $600,000. The first prototype will be ready by the end of 2006.


Number 2:
It seems that the vogue at the moment is for former Formula 1 engineers to design road cars. Hot on the heels of the news that MB Roadcars is to build its EOS, comes word from Italy that legendary Ferrari designer Mauro Forghieri is hard at work designing a road car called Project 1221. Forghieri is working on the design of a super car in league with Emanuele Nicosia, who designed the Jaguar XJS spyder while working at Pininfarina back in 1979 and worked on the Ferrari 288 GTO and Testarossa models. He was also involved with the interior design of the Lamborghini Diablo and of the Bugatti EB110.

Forghieri needs little introduction. Recently turned 70, he began working for Ferrari in 1960 and two years later was put in charge of the racing team. He was 26. He is best known for the 312 series of cars and for his flat 12 engine. Under his guidance Ferrari won World Drivers' title four times with John Surtees (1964), Niki Lauda (1975 & 1977) and Jody Scheckter (1979) and the Constructors' title on seven different occasions. In the 1980s he was pushed out of racing and left the team in 1987 to become technical director of Lamborghini Engineering, where he designed a normally-aspirated V12 engine for the new Grand Prix formula in 1989. Three years later he became technical director of Bugatti Automobili where he remained until the end of 1994 when he established Oral Engineering in Modena.



I just hope they don't start copying old cars and "restyling" them.

 

[Ev0]

Very interesting idea for a road car. I'd love to see if either design could outpace an Enzo, which as we all know is the closest thing to a street legal F1 car.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Very interesting idea for a road car. I'd love to see if either design could outpace an Enzo, which as we all know is the closest thing to a street legal F1 car.

*Cought* Ariel Atom *splutter*

Coolios. This could be really good, and I'm guessing really expensive.

 

[Diego440]

Coolios. This could be really good, and I'm guessing really expensive.

The problem was that the F1 companies didn't want to make a road version because it would be too expensive, but that idea went to the trash when the McLaren F1 broke the $1 million mark (and sold several units), many manufacturers jumped into the scene to get a piece of the pie.

 

[Ev0]

*Cought* Ariel Atom *splutter*

First of all, the Ariel Atom, according to Top Gear, can't outpace an Enzo, although it comes damn close. And keep in mind that is on a flat racetrack. One of the UK car mags recently tested an Atom in their car of the year awards (It was either Evo or Car), and they said it is absolutely horrific to drive on real roads, since the suspension and the chassis are way too tight for anything but a perfectly smooth road. With the car's extreme power to weight ratio, they were just holding on for dear life.

The Enzo on the other hand, as we know is not only faster than an Atom, but is also able to be driven in the real world, as it has been noted as being a cabable Grand Tourer (As long as you don't have too much luggage).

 

[TheCracker]

Very interesting idea for a road car. I'd love to see if either design could outpace an Enzo, which as we all know is the closest thing to a street legal F1 car.

*coughs* McLaren F1, Yamaha OX-99 *splutter*

 

[Ev0]

The McLaren F1 has vastly inferior handling when compared with an Enzo, and I don't believe the Yamaha OX-99 made it to production.

 

[SiGNAL]

The McLaren F1 has vastly inferior handling when compared with an Enzo, and I don't believe the Yamaha OX-99 made it to production.

u kno nothing...

 

[JNasty4G63]

The McLaren F1 has vastly inferior handling when compared with an Enzo.

Thats like saying Penelope Cruz is vasty less attractive than Elizabeth Hurley. We're talking about two absolutely GORGEOUS women here. Sure, one might have some features that are better here and there than the other. But, saying one is VASTLY better than the other is just silly. The same goes for these two cars. I think its safe to say that none of us have ever driven either, so we'll just leave it at that. Both are amazing machines, for sure. But, without driving either, proclaiming things like that is just innane.

Hilg

 

[Dorifto]

The McLaren F1 has vastly inferior handling when compared with an Enzo

Oh awesome you've driven both of them? You are quite lucky to say the least.

 

[PublicSecrecy]

I wonder what it would look like...It sound pretty much the same as the Ferarri Enzo...only 9 miles slower, and probably not road legal. And Ev0 is right guys, Ferarri produces some of the best handling cars out there. The enignes may not be that reliable, but the cars are produced with these figures in mind:

45% Handling
5% practicality
30% speed/performance
and 20% style and hype.

Not to mention the Enzo is much newer and technology has jumped leaps and obuns over the past 6 or 7 years. I believe that the CCR, the enzo, the zonda, and the F1 were all tested on a vigorous road test. All I'm saying is that the Zonda came out on top, with the CCR second.

 

[Omnis]

Thats like saying Penelope Cruz is vasty less attractive than Elizabeth Hurley. We're talking about two absolutely GORGEOUS women here. Sure, one might have some features that are better here and there than the other. But, saying one is VASTLY better than the other is just silly. The same goes for these two cars. I think its safe to say that none of us have ever driven either, so we'll just leave it at that. Both are amazing machines, for sure. But, without driving either, proclaiming things like that is just innane.

Hilg

cars' performance shouldn't be compared to women's beauty. cars can be objectivley tested and measured, whereas women are purely judged upon subjective opinion.

its a different story when you are discussing how a car looks. 👍

 

[JNasty4G63]

cars' performance shouldn't be compared to women's beauty. cars can be objectivley tested and measured, whereas women are purely judged upon subjective opinion.

You missed the point of my post. I understand that looks and performance are objective and subjective, respectively. I was referring to his wording about the Enzo being a "vastly" better handling car. Thus, my analogy to women is fine and works. He says the Enzo is a vastly better handling car, and I said that was silly. Both are claimed to be some of the worlds best handling cars, and since none of us have ever driven them, we'll just leave it at both being understandably great. And, I don't think many people will argue that Penelope and Liz are some fine looking women. Saying that one is "vastly" better than the other is just getting overboard and exagerated. Get me??

Hilg

 

[Ev0]

First off, I have never driven an Enzo or a McLaren F1, and I likely never will. I have no idea where anyone got the impression that I drove either car.

I was making my statement on the handling of the Enzo vs. the McLaren based on data and opinions of people who have actually driven these cars. As we all know, the Enzo is one of the best handling, if not the best handling road car ever made. The McLaren on the otherhand, has been criticized for it's mediocre handling. But you also must consider, that the McLaren was designed for it's massive top speed, so the engineers likely had to make compromises in the area of downforce to reduce the car's drag, so it could hit 240mph.

 

[JNasty4G63]

I have no idea where anyone got the impression that I drove either car.

The McLaren F1 has vastly inferior handling when compared with an Enzo

We know you haven't driven these cars, very few people will. But, making statements like that is just a bit bold.

......the McLaren was designed for it's massive top speed, so the engineers likely had to make compromises in the area of downforce to reduce the car's drag, so it could hit 240mph.

Here is the quote straight from Gordon's mouth off the company website about the car......

The philosophy behind the F1 road car was simple - to be the finest drivers car ever built, or ever likely to be built…

This meant producing a car not only with outstanding performance but one versatile and usable as an everyday vehicle. The McLaren F1 benefits from World Championship Formula One technology and experience and is the worlds first production road car to feature an all carbon composite monocoque and body structure. This unique material combines the low weight necessary for performance with exceptional strength to exceed demanding industry safety requirements.

The Mac was designed to be the ultimate road going car, period. Not just to have the highest top speed. If thats all they wanted, they could have just given it 1200hp, and done like 300mph and called it game over. The high top speed is just a byproduct of the mix of extreme lightweight, big engine power, and good aero work.

You sit in the middle to keep the balance and view ahead near perfect. Car kept to only 2500lbs, yet packing 630hp. The air brake to help stability when braking. No power steering for better feel of the road. Those are just a few of the many things this car did to make sure that, at the time, and still debatable now, its the best road going car ever, not just having the fastest top speed, or be the fastest around a track. It will get both of those things done very well, but its built for driving pleasure, not just driving #'s.

Now sure, the supercar game has stepped up greatly since the mid-90s. And, I would venture to say that the Enzo, Zonda, and Carrera GT could very easily keep up with a Mac on a race circuit. But, like I was saying earlier, calling one "vastly" better than the other is just silly. Sure, the technology is better now, and the Enzo and others are great cars. But, my whole point behind this is that the McF1 is nothing to sneeze at. Thats all. Give both any of them to a capable race driver, and I'd venture to say you'd see very little between them. But, in the real world, when just driving the car, I would bet the Mac is the most appealing drive, which was its goal the whole time.

Hilg

 

[PublicSecrecy]

That and the fact it would be ridiculously expensive to produce a 300mph car, since you know, the Veyron unnofficially does 270 and is still under testing...At 300mph if you got hit in the head by a bumble bee, flying towards you at 5mph, you would be killed.

 

[stumpydino]

wow. high powered open wheeled road cars. how original

plus

= something very ugly but 👍

 

[PublicSecrecy]

I think you should have used the Prowler and the Koeniggsegg CCR as oppoed to whatever the hell that is and the ezno...that way it's faster and better looking.

 

[Ev0]

We know you haven't driven these cars, very few people will. But, making statements like that is just a bit bold.

The acceleration of a Formula One race car is vastly superior to that of a Saleen S7. Now, it's obvious that I have never driven either of these cars, and likely never will, but I think it's safe to say that my assumption is valid, based on the opinions of people who have driven them and based on statistical data.

Moving back to the original argument at hand, here is Jeremy Clarkson's opinion on the McLaren F1's handling, from the BBC program Top Gear.

The steering is too heavy, the front's too vague, and the back end is skittish. Couple all that to this spectacular power, and you have something truly terrifying.

Not exactly good handling. And convieniently, in the same episode of Top Gear, he also tested the Ferrari Enzo. Although he did not make any specific comment about the car's handling, it was blatantly clear to anyone who was watching that he could not find a single fault with the car's stellar performance. It's obvious which car's handling he preffered.

And statstical data seems to back this up. Road and Track tested the F1 in their 12/97 edition, and got a skidpad rating (Around a 200ft skidpad) of 0.86g. The Enzo, tested in the 07/03 issue got a massive 1.01g rating. Very big difference, especially when the Enzo weighs nearly 400lbs more than the McLaren.

Here is the quote straight from Gordon's mouth off the company website about the car......

The Mac was designed to be the ultimate road going car, period. Not just to have the highest top speed. If thats all they wanted, they could have just given it 1200hp, and done like 300mph and called it game over. The high top speed is just a byproduct of the mix of extreme lightweight, big engine power, and good aero work.

You sit in the middle to keep the balance and view ahead near perfect. Car kept to only 2500lbs, yet packing 630hp. The air brake to help stability when braking. No power steering for better feel of the road. Those are just a few of the many things this car did to make sure that, at the time, and still debatable now, its the best road going car ever, not just having the fastest top speed, or be the fastest around a track. It will get both of those things done very well, but its built for driving pleasure, not just driving #'s.

Ok, that's all well and good, but I was talking about downforce. The only thing you listed there that has anything to do with downforce is the airbrake, and your statement of 'good aero work'. Clearly the aerodynamics on the car are brilliant with a top speed of 240, but you have to realize they were trying to reduce drag to attain top speed. And less drag generally equals less downforce, which leads to worse handling at high speeds. This car's strength is it's straight line performance, not it's handling.

Now sure, the supercar game has stepped up greatly since the mid-90s. And, I would venture to say that the Enzo, Zonda, and Carrera GT could very easily keep up with a Mac on a race circuit. But, like I was saying earlier, calling one "vastly" better than the other is just silly. Sure, the technology is better now, and the Enzo and others are great cars. But, my whole point behind this is that the McF1 is nothing to sneeze at. Thats all. Give both any of them to a capable race driver, and I'd venture to say you'd see very little between them. But, in the real world, when just driving the car, I would bet the Mac is the most appealing drive, which was its goal the whole time.

The Enzo, and the Carerra GT would annhialate the McLaren F1 on a race track, due to the superior handling of the modern supercars. The Zonda probably wouldnt be able to compensate for the McLaren's massive straight line performance though. And I do think that the McLaren's handling is vastly inferior to that of the Enzo.

 

[JNasty4G63]

The acceleration of a Formula One race car is vastly superior to that of a Saleen S7. Now, it's obvious that I have never driven either of these cars, and likely never will, but I think it's safe to say that my assumption is valid, based on the opinions of people who have driven them and based on statistical data.

Yes, speed is a figure that can be measured, sure. Handling is a general term. Now, if all you want to talk about is skidpad and slalom numbers, sure, those can be measured. But, handling as a function of a car is a purely personal thing. What I think handles great, you might think handles like ass. That doesn't solve anything.

.......here is Jeremy Clarkson's opinion on the McLaren F1's handling, from the BBC program Top Gear.

Well, then here is one back for you. Here is Steve Millen, former IMSA and Le Mans champion, talking about the F1 in the R&T article you mentioned.

Well, I've fallen in love with the McLaren. It is the greatest street car I've ever driven. The McLaren is deceivingly fast, and it isn't until you approach a corner at 140 mph that you think, 'Gee whiz, maybe I'm going a bit quicker than perhaps I should be.' It drives just like a car on slick tires, without the jerkiness to it. The car is very well balanced, and the gear lever very positive. The brakes are very hard, and you have to use a lot of pedal effort. The McLaren's linear powerband is amazing. It's a serious car with a power-to-weight ratio close to that of my IMSA race car. — Steve Millen

Now, I don't know about you, but I think I'd put more stock in a champion race driver's opinion over some average joe journalist when talking about the dynamics of a car. I love Clarkson, he is a great read, and very funny on the show. But, taking what he says to heart is a bit much for me.

Road and Track tested the F1 in their 12/97 edition, and got a skidpad rating (Around a 200ft skidpad) of 0.86g. The Enzo, tested in the 07/03 issue got a massive 1.01g rating.

Ok, well here is more R&T for you then. They tested the WRX to 0.84g on the skidpad, and a 62.8mph in the slalom. In a recent issue they tested the new Acura RL to 0.86g and 65.1mph in the slalom. Now, I'm sure you, being the numbers guy, would proclaim that the RL is a better handling car. And sure, the numbers are better. But given the choice of those 2, I can tell you which car I'd choose if I'm going for a drive or take some laps. It wouldn't be the Acura, thats for sure.

And, as a side note, does that mean that you think the new RL handles just as well as the F1??? I mean, the numbers are nearly identical, so it should, right??? Numbers don't always tell the story. My fiance has a Cooper S. Its numbers across the board are good. Nothing spectacular, but good enough. But never, and I mean NEVER, have I driven a more fun to drive car. Who cares about numbers when the car is that good. The new Viper, also, has a skidpad figure of 1.04, better even than your vaunted Enzo. What does that tell us??? It tells us that the Viper has a very large contact patch underneath and a chassis that will plant it to the road. But, thats about it. Just because a car can generate good numbers doesn't tell the whole story.

Clearly the aerodynamics on the car are brilliant with a top speed of 240, but you have to realize they were trying to reduce drag to attain top speed. And less drag generally equals less downforce, which leads to worse handling at high speeds. This car's strength is it's straight line performance, not it's handling.

Lowering drag doesn't always equal lowering downforce. Both the new Ferrari F430 and Porsche Carrera are examples of this. Both cars are basically revamps of a current design. And both have lower c/d numbers in the new model, but both also gained some downforce. The Ferrari uses its new underbody tray and huge rear diffuser to generate "50% more downforce than before at 180mph"

And also, a lower coefficient of drag is good for much more than just top speed. Better fuel economy, lower wind noise, and better highway speedstability in windy conditions. Easy to see these. When its windy, driving my Wrangler on the highway is almost scarry at times. It basically a big box designed to go off-road, with very little consideration for aerodynamics involved in its design. The wind noise is huge, and side winds can get the car going all over the place. So, you see, lowering the drag on a car isn't just for top speed.

The Enzo, and the Carerra GT would annhialate the McLaren F1 on a race track, due to the superior handling of the modern supercars. The Zonda probably wouldnt be able to compensate for the McLaren's massive straight line performance though.

We're talking about a car that weighs in at 1140kg with 630hp here. Thats a massive 550hp/ton. Even with its "vastly inferior" handling numbers, I believe the car would hold its own very easily. The others are 440hp/ton for the Zonda S, 418hp/ton for the Carrera GT, and 450hp/ton for the Enzo. Even with its "poor" handling numbers, it will take a lot to make a car with that high of a power/weight ratio look bad on a track. As we've seen earlier with the WRX and RL, handling numbers don't tell the whole story. Now, I'm not saying that the McLaren is the greatest handling car ever, thats not my point with all this. I'm just trying to get you to see that there is more to a car than numbers and journalist comments. I'm sure all the cars mentioned, Enzo, C-GT, Zonda, Mac, are all great machines. But, regardless of numbers or comments by journalists, I can't think of a car that I want to drive more.

And I do think that the McLaren's handling is vastly inferior to that of the Enzo.

No, you think the skidpad and slalom numbers on the Mac are vastly inferior to the Enzo. Jeremy Clarkson, who has driven the car, thinks the McLaren handles poorly, and you just agree with him. Like we said before, until you drive the car, what you think about something you haven't driven is really a moot point.

Hilg

 

[Ev0]

Firstly, I do agree with you on the WRX. The handling numbers are suspiciously low for it. On the other hand, the RL has been hailed by journalists as one of the best handling FF sedans ever. Although when you do put it the way you did, the McLaren should have better handling figures.

Even still, I think Clarkson's opinion is still very valid. In the same segment as the McLaren, he also drove some very fast cars, such as the Jaguar XJ220, the Porsche Carerra GT, and the Ferrari F40. He did not complain about the handling of any of the other cars he mentioned. A supercar should inspire confidence in it's driver with it's abilities, and the McLaren F1 certainly did not do that for Clarkson, in the field of handling at least. Sure, Steve Millen may have liked it, but not everyone who owns or drives a McLaren F1 will be a professional race car driver, who may be able to overlook it's poor feel.

And I guarantee you, put Steve Millen in a McLaren, and then switch him over to an Enzo, and he will prefer the handling of the Enzo.

But, as you said, arguing over this is fairly futile, and I think we should agree to disagree, otherwise this nonsense will continue.

 

[JNasty4G63]

the RL has been hailed by journalists as one of the best handling FF sedans ever.

Its AWD actually. Thats why I compared it to the WRX.

Even still, I think Clarkson's opinion is still very valid......Steve Millen may have liked it, but not everyone who owns or drives a McLaren F1 will be a professional race car driver, who may be able to overlook it's poor feel.

Again, your talking about personal things. I might drive a Mercedes G55 AMG and proclaim it to be the best handling 4-wheel'd machine ever built. But, what does that prove??? Nothing. It would just prove that my scope for "good handling" is much different than other people. Clarkson disliked it, Millen liked it. Both have driven it, and are giving opinions. I haven't, so, I won't say it has "poor" handling.

And I guarantee you, put Steve Millen in a McLaren, and then switch him over to an Enzo, and he will prefer the handling of the Enzo.

Again with the personal opinions. You know what, I bet if you show him my car, he'll say that Black is the best color for a car ever. See how silly that sounds??? We'll never know which he prefers, unless he does drive them, so you're just assuming.

But, as you said, arguing over this is fairly futile, and I think we should agree to disagree, otherwise this nonsense will continue.

I'm just trying to get you to see the bigger picture with this. Sure, in the scope of the "Supercar" field, the Mac might not have the best numbers in some areas. But, supercars are the top of the food chain in the automotive world. Just because its handling numbers aren't as good as its newer competition doesn't mean that its all of a sudden a "poor" handling car.

Its like saying a car that comes in 3rd in a 3way shootout is crappy. Like, if a mag reviewed the M5, E55, and RS6. One has to be last. But, does that make the last place finisher a bad car??? No, it just means the others are better. The Mac might not be the best at making huge handling numbers, but, I doubt its bad. But, I'll save my opinion on how it handles and drives for a time when I've actually done it. And, since that won't be happening anytime soon..........

Hilg

 

[PublicSecrecy]

On a sidenote...

The acceleration of a Formula One race car is vastly superior to that of a Saleen S7. Now, it's obvious that I have never driven either of these cars, and likely never will, but I think it's safe to say that my assumption is valid, based on the opinions of people who have driven them and based on statistical data.

Formula 1 car - 0-60 : 2.8-2.9s
quarter mile: high 7's

Saleen S7 0-60: 3.9-4.1s
quarter mile: mid 11's - low 12's

 

[iceburns288]

First of all, the Ariel Atom, according to Top Gear, can't outpace an Enzo, although it comes damn close. And keep in mind that is on a flat racetrack. One of the UK car mags recently tested an Atom in their car of the year awards (It was either Evo or Car), and they said it is absolutely horrific to drive on real roads, since the suspension and the chassis are way too tight for anything but a perfectly smooth road. With the car's extreme power to weight ratio, they were just holding on for dear life.

You think an F1 car would be any better? That kinda defeats the point of an on-road F1 car.


Anyone see Driven?

 

[TsLeng]

Well, tiff needell loves the F1

And when it comes to handling, I think I'll trust tiff rather than Jeremy

 

[xcsti]

I agree. While I enjoy watching clarkson, I long ago realized not to believe any of his recommendations. He'll ignore huge flaws of some cars, while he picks apart the small problems in others. The ford GT for example, they picked him apart for how impractical it was, but jeremy still bought it. He picked the f40 over many good supercars because of the way it feels to him, even though it lacks things like door handles and is down at least 100hp from most of the cars in that comparo. If you want a fair and balanced test look elsewhere.

 

[TheCracker]

EvO - Sorry, but you are talking out of your arse. I like Jeremy Clarkson, he's very funny and entertaining - but he changes his opinions more than he changes his pants. He'll exagerate a cars ability just to please the manufactures and make good TV - its very much the way the world operates these days!
I'm sure that on a circuit an Enzo would put in similar lap times to a Macca F1 - the Macca has a superior power-weight ratio (most important factor) but the Enzo uses much more modern tyre and braking technology. Having said that, away from the circuit on the open road (where these cars have been logically designed for) you will find that the Macca is a much smaller, maneuverable car better suited to proper 'driving' roads. The Enzo is a massive long and wide car and therefore couldn't possibly be a match for the F1's real-world ability. I've read plenty of retrospective road tests on the Macca F1 in the past months from the likes of John Watson and Tiff Needell (both former Formula One drivers) who still rate the F1 as the best handling.

Skid pan and qtr mile figures mean very little in reality about how a car handles or performs.

 

[Ev0]

I agree. While I enjoy watching clarkson, I long ago realized not to believe any of his recommendations. He'll ignore huge flaws of some cars, while he picks apart the small problems in others. The ford GT for example, they picked him apart for how impractical it was, but jeremy still bought it. He picked the f40 over many good supercars because of the way it feels to him, even though it lacks things like door handles and is down at least 100hp from most of the cars in that comparo. If you want a fair and balanced test look elsewhere.

Firstly, slandering the Ford GT for being impractical is like slandering a bus for being slow. Of course the GT is very impractical, it's a supercar!

And why do you disagree with Clarkson on the F40? The way a car feels is probably the most important aspect of a supercar, and by nearly all accounts, this is what Ferrari does best. And according to him, this car provided the most exciting drive because it felt the best compared to all of the other cars he drove. This is his own opinion, and he is entitled to it, no matter how wrong you think he is. As me and JNasty have agreed on, what may be automotive perfection to one person may be the complete opposite to another person.

And besides, who cares about if it has no door handles. And it's 100hp deficit clearly didn't hurt it much, as it was the fastest in the 0-60 times out of all the cars in the test (3.2s).

 

[Ev0]

EvO - Sorry, but you are talking out of your arse. I like Jeremy Clarkson, he's very funny and entertaining - but he changes his opinions more than he changes his pants. He'll exagerate a cars ability just to please the manufactures and make good TV - its very much the way the world operates these days!
I'm sure that on a circuit an Enzo would put in similar lap times to a Macca F1 - the Macca has a superior power-weight ratio (most important factor) but the Enzo uses much more modern tyre and braking technology. Having said that, away from the circuit on the open road (where these cars have been logically designed for) you will find that the Macca is a much smaller, maneuverable car better suited to proper 'driving' roads. The Enzo is a massive long and wide car and therefore couldn't possibly be a match for the F1's real-world ability. I've read plenty of retrospective road tests on the Macca F1 in the past months from the likes of John Watson and Tiff Needell (both former Formula One drivers) who still rate the F1 as the best handling.

Skid pan and qtr mile figures mean very little in reality about how a car handles or performs.

The Enzo is an amazing car to drive on real roads. In the road and track issue I mentioned before, the reviewers drove it in southern Utah, praising the suspension for it's smoothness over imperfections, and for the solidness of the chassis. The car also has very good handling, despite it's large size. Phil Hill certainly seems to agree with this opinion.

The Enzo responds incredibly in such a high order... I can't imagine the steering feeling any better. The precision whith which you can drive the car is exceptional.

The Enzo is an amazing car on real roads, but the only way to settle this argument would be to have a head to head comparison.

And obviously I don't take Clarson's opinions seriously all the time. But I do tend to agree with him a hell of a lot, and so what if his opinions change? Everyone's opinions change over time. For example, I used to hate the styling of the new 5 series, but I've grown accustomed to it, and now I like the new 5 series styling.

 

[JNasty4G63]

The Enzo is an amazing car to drive on real roads......The car also has very good handling, despite it's large size.

Again, you don't know that. Some people have said that, and you're just assuming you'll agree with them. Like I said earlier, if I told you that the MB G55 AMG was the greatest handling vehicle ever, what would you say??? I mean, I've driven one of them, so I know what they're like. It must be true right???? Or, what if I said that cow tongue was the best tasting food in the world. Would you tell people that its the best??? No. Its fine to read opinions and listen to what people say. But, just agreeing with them without actually sampling the item is wrong.

And, no one is saying that the Enzo is a bad handling car. We know Ferrari understands how to make a car handle. But, what Cracker is saying is right. The F1 is almost 10 inches shorter, 7 inches narrower, lighter, has a longer wheelbase, and narrower track. Those things all add up to a more liveable car in the real world. I mean, when I drive my fiances Denali, it feels like a tank compared to my Talon or her Cooper. Now obviously, the Enzo is no Yukon, but the size of a car can make any car feel either good or bad. And, I would much prefer the F1 over an Enzo if I'm driving in town. I like the Enzo, I'm not knocking the car. I bet it would be a fantastic car to own, and should be a blast on the track. But, just because someone else says so, I'll wait and make my own judgements when the time comes.

Hilg