Formula 1 Rolex Australian Grand Prix 2024Formula 1 

  • Thread starter Jimlaad43
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Lewis to Ferrari looks more like the right choice every day. Carlos showing he deserves a good seat. Might actually watch this race.

Edit: I'm so out of the loop I didn't realise they'd changed Suzuka to earlier in the season.

Edit 2: I'm glad we got the whole will Max win the lot business out the way early.
 
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Old master Alonso showing how to do a clean defensive drive.

Maybe not so clean.
20 sec penalty and 3 points on licence for “potentially dangerous driving”.

“Potentially” - yeah, no **** Sherlock, thinks George.

Drops Alonso to 9th. Stroll 7th. Tsunoda 8th.
 
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Maybe not so clean.
20 sec penalty and 3 points on licence for “potentially dangerous driving”.

“Potentially” - yeah, no **** Sherlock, thinks George.

Drops Alonso to 9th. Stroll 7th. Tsunoda 8th.
Potentially?
So its not a yes or no, but a maybe?

Rules are binary.
You either broke them or you didn't
 
Deserved penalty I think, totally avoidable incident. Wording of potentially is stupid and further paints race directorship/stewards/FIA in a less than capable light. Nothing "potentially dangerous" about it given the result, it was dangerous, period.

Mediocre race overall, wasn't a huge amount of action, didn't get a Mclaren fight, Perez pace dropped off a cliff and prevented a battle at the front, Haas v Williams was OK while it lasted.

Hopefully a more technical track will bring us some more entertainment which this season is seriously lacking.
 
It’s nice to see a different result although the race itself wasn’t much better than what’s come before once you got over the “oh my God Verstappen is retiring!” moment. To be honest I’m not sure he’d have had it as easy even if the car had worked properly, which is encouraging for the rest of the season, I guess. Ferrari had real pace this weekend that kinda didn’t show up in Q3 for whatever reason. So maybe perversely Max’s problems actually stopped the race from being a bit more interesting at the front? Or maybe he’d have waltzed off as usual and been six seconds ahead by lap ten, who knows.

Alonso completely deserves that penalty. He’s master of the dark arts, it was completely deliberate. I’m sure he didn’t expect Russell to **** the bed quite the way he did, but he was definitely trying to unnerve him into backing off by driving erratically at very least. In my view, anyway.

Ferrari look good, Hamilton’s decision looks good. Ferrari’s decision to ditch Sainz less so.
 
Made the mistake of going onto X/Twitter post race. Astonishing how badly toxic everything has gotten, I know it was discussed a page ago but it's just absurd. LH fans abusing Russel, LH fans saying Norris deserved to be booed on the podium, Piastri fans absolutely ripping Norris and Mclaren, MV fans abusing Perez.

What is going on? Golf social media has gone the same way, there genuinely no valuable discussion..
 
Made the mistake of going onto X/Twitter post race. Astonishing how badly toxic everything has gotten, I know it was discussed a page ago but it's just absurd. LH fans abusing Russel, LH fans saying Norris deserved to be booed on the podium, Piastri fans absolutely ripping Norris and Mclaren, MV fans abusing Perez.

What is going on? Golf social media has gone the same way, there genuinely no valuable discussion..
It's very simple what's going on: the algorithms on social media are optimised for dividing people into groups, and driving people to more extreme opinions. All to increase 'engagement'
 
I think people on social media just forgot that it's possible to disagree with someone's opinion while remaining polite and respectful long ago.
Spot on.

For example, I don't agree with Alonso's penalty (not sure what he's had to say about it post-penalty, but will be interesting), but:
a) I'm not going to hurl abuse and profanities at anyone that does agree with that decision and
b) at the end of the day, I really don't care lol.
 
It really frustrates me. I think sometimes people are really, really rude. And sure, it’s a name on a computer screen, it doesn’t really bother me in most ways, I’m not gonna lose any sleep over lh44_4eva calling me a **** because I suggest Lewis Hamilton may be performing below his peak. But it is needless and it makes getting into any sort of debate a real chore, where debating stuff with people is meant to be enjoyable for precisely the reason everyone gets so mad - people have different opinions on stuff and that’s actually ok.
 
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Maybe not so clean.
20 sec penalty and 3 points on licence for “potentially dangerous driving”.

“Potentially” - yeah, no **** Sherlock, thinks George.

Drops Alonso to 9th. Stroll 7th. Tsunoda 8th.
8th. Stroll to 6th, Tsunoda to 7th. Both HAAS cars stay where they are.

It didn't look like it was dangerous driving to me but I turned it off right after the finish and I thought Alonso was being cautious while Russell ran a bit too hot into the corner.

First race since Monza 2021 that both Hamilton and Verstappen failed to finish. First race ever that both of them retired from the same race and DIDN'T crash into each other.
 
Inch-perfect race by Carlos today.

He perfectly managed the gaps every single lap, very impressive drive from someone who had surgery 2 weeks ago.

Can anyone tell me what the added benefit is of ditching Carlos for Hamilton? Other than publicity, I can't find any.
 
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Inch-perfect race by Carlos today.

He perfectly managed the gaps every single lap, very impressive drive from someone who had surgery 2 weeks ago.

Can anyone tell me what the added benefit is of ditching Carlos for Hamilton? Other than publicity, I can't find any.
Publicity, a ton of money from merch sales as Lewis' fans update their wardrobes to even more criminally overpriced Ferrari branding, maybe some Mercedes personnel if any choose to defect with him, and ensuring that Mercedes doesn't have him and thus removing any chance they'll build a car that will get him back on top next year.

While I imagine the primary reason for it is Lewis wanting a new challenge, it's also just as much about Ferrari hamstringing one of their two viable competitors by taking away their top driver.
 
Lewis has obviously been amazing over the years - but personally if I had a Leclerc-Sainz lineup I don’t think I’d trade that for anything, Lewis included. Sainz is easy to overlook in any discussion about the top drivers but when there’s he chance to do something big, he does it and looks imperious doing it. Considering people rate Leclerc as maybe the fastest driver over one lap, he does get outqualified by Carlos quite a bit too.

What’ll be interesting is seeing where he ends up for ‘25. I don’t think he’d be a great fit at Red Bull mainly because his driving style isn’t like Max’s, it’s probably more like Perez’s. But a straight swap between Ferrari and Mercedes I could see, although I half think they’ll press the Alonso button instead.
 
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It was a great performance by Carlos Sainz who has started the season in fine fashion by finishing both his races above his teammate Leclerc.
 
This is officially Lewis Hamilton's worst ever start to a season.

It's the first time he hasn't been classified on the podium in the first three races (Including 2009 when he was briefly bumped up to 3rd in Australia before Liegate came to light).
 
I watched the onboards multiple times but I’m still on the fence about Alonso’s penalty. He was up to his usual tricks but it didn't seem that sketchy. It looked like Russel had tunnel vision on the car in front and got caught out by it.
 
Can anyone tell me what the added benefit is of ditching Carlos for Hamilton? Other than publicity, I can't find any.
Because one's a 7-time champion & one's currently on a high of recent success post-decision to drop him for Lewis.

I like Carlos & he absolutely should remain in the sport next season and beyond. But I think some folks are overplaying his ability next to Charles.
In 2021, Qualifying was 13-9 for Charles, Race Position was 14-8 for Charles, no wins for either, Podiums was 4-1 for Carlos & Carlos finished 5th to Charles' 7th.
In 2022, Charles outperformed him in Qualifying 12-7, Race Position 12-9, Wins 3-1, Poles 9-3, Podiums 11-9, finished 2nd to Carlos' 5th.
In 2023, Qualifying was Charles 15-7, Race Position was Charles 11-9, Wins was Carlos at 1-0, Podiums was Charles 6-3 (iirc), Charles finished 5th to Carlos 7th.

Carlos has mastercraft & strategy, but there's not a large gap here between them and at the end of the year, Charles has done better when it came to be for results. Career wise (& the fact Charles is an Academy prodigy), it's not too surprising Ferrari kept Charles. Even if we pitted him against Lewis in recent years, Lewis finished behind him by 6 pts in 2022, & then finished 3rd to Carlos' 7th last year. Years prior to '22 speak are obvious.
I watched the onboards multiple times but I’m still on the fence about Alonso’s penalty. He was up to his usual tricks but it didn't seem that sketchy. It looked like Russel had tunnel vision on the car in front and got caught out by
TMU, it's the fact that he reportedly was accelerating, braked, then accelerated again before making the turn which was seen as out of the ordinary & therefore, out of line.
 
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So Albon finishing 11th and scoring no points despite Russell, Hamilton and Verstappen DNFing on top of Alonso picking up a 20s penalty is useful how compared to Sargeant finishing probably P16 and also scoring no points?
 
Wow what a bull **** penalty for Fernando Alonso. I honestly thought he brake checked George Russell like Verstappen did to Hamilton, but that's not the case at all. Yes, he played with the throttle but there's absolutely nothing to suggest that he was driving dangerously. George did not pay attention and he paid the price.
 
Wow what a bull **** penalty for Fernando Alonso. I honestly thought he brake checked George Russell like Verstappen did to Hamilton, but that's not the case at all. Yes, he played with the throttle but there's absolutely nothing to suggest that he was driving dangerously. George did not pay attention and he paid the price.
Remember Saudi 2021 when Verstappen very deliberately brake checked a rival halfway down a DRS straight, got hit by the car behind and only got +10 seconds?

And on this same weekend an F3 driver swerved into another car in a practice session, putting them in the wall, only getting a +3 place grid drop...

And how in Bahrain F3, Luke Browning was given +10 seconds for overtaking off the track when the car on the inside was allowed to just drive to the outside of the track so it was impossible for the car in the outside to not be off track?

These penalties are so inconsistent in their harshness and how they appoint blame, it's no wonder people are angry at every penalty. Realistically, a penalty should only ever be annoying if it is applied to the driver you are supporting. But this Alonso one sets a crazy precedent.

Australia 2024 - slow down to guarantee you make the corner: 20s penalty.
Sao Paulo 2022 - don't bother and send it in with no intention of making the corner: no penalty.


Now don't get me wrong, I am fully in support of penalising misdemeanors, and using harsh penalties as a deterrent, but we are penalising the wrong thing here by a country mile. Alonso was clever and within the rules, and Russell bottled it. Now, if Alonso's supposed "throttle issue" he went on to do after was not genuine and him trying to cover up his actions, then we have a Hamilton @ Australia 2009 liegate kind of thing which is not on, but the stewards decided to not even look there.


The biggest thing we need from the Russell crash is to Clamp down on effing speeding under yellow flags. Turn 6 is a fast blind corner and we have had too many close calls there, it's the new Raidillon. The VSC was the right call in that situation (calls for a Red Flag that close to the end of the race was overkill), but because the drivers follow a time delta, they still fly past the corner quickly. Under a VSC or Safety Car, the drivers are supposed to go through any Double Yellow flag zones at Pit Speed limit speeds, this was a rule clarified halfway through the last season and has never been enforced. Not slowing for yellows properly and safely is the biggest problem in the sport, which I have explained many times recently, because there is no penalty for not slowing except maybe crashing into something dangerous they didn't slow for. Get rid of the VSC and bring in FCY. A Safety Car situation should be "FCY" called instantly, which then becomes Safety Car when the leader goes down the start straight to be collected by it. FCY forces all drivers to slow to Pit Speed in WEC and F1 needs to adopt this.
 
Context is king with Alonso's penalty, if he does that into turn 3 I think he would get away with it, but the fact he drives erratically (in terms of throttle and brake behavior) into a corner that barely needs the brake (typically a small lift and downshift) is what nets him the penalty.

It also can't be compared to the penalty from 2021 between Lewis and Max because the backlash from that led to the FIA saying the penalties would be harsher, and then ahead of this season again they adjusted the penalties for various misdemeanors.
 
This is true, the penalty mentioned for Browning would have been +5 last year, and this year's Saudi race saw 10 seconds penalties given out. It still doesn't quite explain how no contact was double the penalty of one with contact. However I suppose it was +20 not +25 from a Drive Through penalty.

Now the precedent has been set though, blaming someone else for your crash can definitely be claimed and gamed in the future. This could get messy unless Aston Martin successfully appeal the penalty.
 
This is true, the penalty mentioned for Browning would have been +5 last year, and this year's Saudi race saw 10 seconds penalties given out. It still doesn't quite explain how no contact was double the penalty of one with contact. However I suppose it was +20 not +25 from a Drive Through penalty.

Now the precedent has been set though, blaming someone else for your crash can definitely be claimed and gamed in the future. This could get messy unless Aston Martin successfully appeal the penalty.
Rules for penalties have been changed this year. Baseline penalty is now 10 seconds, 5 second penalties are gone. So a 10s penalty from previous years is equivalent to a "second level" penalty this year, which is a drive through penalty. Which is what Alonso got, drive through converted to 20s post race.

And I don't believe a precedent was set, he wasn't penalized for Russell crashing, he was penalized for dangerous driving. The stewards decision is quite clear (people should read it before forming an opinion). He slowed down more than what is reasonably accepted in racing situations, especially in a high speed section. Alonso himself said in the stewards hearing that he slowed down more than he intended to, which is why he had to accelerate again before the corner (whether intentional or not we can't know for sure obviously, but either way intentionality is irrelevant here since it wasn't a mechanical issue). He wasn't penalized for just slowing down, or for giving Russell dirty air, or for Russell crashing, he was penalized for slowing down too much, in a dangerous context, which he himself admitted to in the hearing, despite his attempts at spinning it in the media post race. I don't understand why there's any controversy over the penalty. There is obviously a limit to what you can do while racing (otherwise slowing down to 30mph in a 200mph corner without reason would be legal for example), and he crossed it.

The only caveat is this probably wouldn't have been investigated if there wasn't a crash, but that doesn't change the fact that the penalty was warranted. I don't think it'll change anything moving forward if someone complains after crashing, because the precedent set is not for penalizing for someone crashing, but for causing a dangerous situation.
 
Inch-perfect race by Carlos today.

He perfectly managed the gaps every single lap, very impressive drive from someone who had surgery 2 weeks ago.

Can anyone tell me what the added benefit is of ditching Carlos for Hamilton? Other than publicity, I can't find any.
The added benefit is clearly that Carlos now drives for his survival - it's the name of the game now?- and is now likely to have a bunch of great drives. Just like Perez before he was saved by Red Bull ?
 

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