Formula 1 Scraps The Use Of Grid Girls For The 2018 SeasonFormula 1
- Thread starter Robin
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- Canada
I can only give my personal opinion of why people are reacting the way they have. 1, and I think this is actually the biggest reason - other than B12Hr and FE, it's a quiet week in the motorsports world. If this announcement would have come out mid-car launches, I doubt we'd be hearing much. 2. As I think I've mentioned, personally, I don't really care if the grid girls are their, but (and again, because it's a quiet week) I personally have issue with the why and the how LM went about making this move. To me, it seems like a fair bit of virtue signalling from a sport that has been the pininicle of masculinity for quite some time now. I don't think we need half naked women draped over the cars, but I also think this, I dunno how to call it..."new age fear" of masculenity and the "de-masculinating" of many things like F1 is not really necessariry to the degree it's being taken.Nope.
I'd suggest not everyone in this thread is being as civil and friendly as you and I would like - the one-line comments about PC SJWs and similar. I appreciate you taking the time to consider what I and others have written, and reply with a reasonable answer.
Do what you like. I've not told anyone to stop talking about it, or that anyone should agree with me. All I've said is that there's been an overreaction to a minor decision, and questioned why decisions or events with similar but much further reaching consequences don't achieve the same reaction - a question noone has attempted to answer. I have a hypothesis - that the reaction is emotional based on a desire to see "attractive" women with not enough self control to step back and see how little it matters - but I hope I'm wrong. I want to be wrong because it paints people in a negative light, but every time I see someone's post blaming political correctness, feminists, or social justice warriors, that's the impression I receive of them.
I will be watching it when the race is uploaded. I can't stay up all night to watch it live. Until then I'm staying out of the thread to avoid spoilers.
It didn't come across as semi-serious, tongue in cheek or (I think you ment) light-hearted. It came across as a rant. But at least I know how you felt when you read my light-hearted comment, so shall we call it a draw?
One more thing I'll add - and this IS light hearted and tongue in cheek, so please take it as such - is the role reversal that seems to me to have taken place in this thread, like some sort of Shakespearean comedy: you've got @Johnnypenso, usually a right-leaning, conservative fellow, suddenly arguing on behalf of the individual against a large business (correct me if I'm wrong), and folks such as @TenEightyOne (picking you out as the most recent comment in this vein, again, correct if applicable) saying it's nothing more than a business decision and a private company can do that if they so wish.
As mentioned in the twitter posts by Leena Gade, the presence of grid girls played zero role in her deciding to be in Motorsport. Now, not every woman out there is Leena, but I have doubts whether eliminating grid girls will cause more women to be interested in motorsports (which, from what I can gather, is the main motivation for this move).
I also think some of the reaction is that perhaps for some people, this is sort of a "straw that broke the camel's back". They see political correctness taking over many aspects of their life (especially if they work in an office environment), and now they see it in their pastime too. I can see how that could cause someone to have a little "freak out", get some stuff off their chest. And maybe that's what a lot of this is...people just getting things off their chest.
My personal hypothesis - binning grid girls is partially a reaction by LM to the boy-in-a-dress episode from over Xmas. F1, perhaps the most masculine of all sports (arguable), got thrust into the arena of political correctness after the that all went down. People who never gave F1 a second look started paying attention, and putting pressure on management to "get with the times." This is LM'a olive branch.
Kind of a secondary hypothesis, but if grid girls is in any way a reaction to dress boy, then I think perhaps there's an element of LM responding to trolls, without even knowing it. My evidence for this is actually in comments of many grid girls articles, and this evidence is since #gridgirls went down, people are now making demands for more People of Colour in F1, more non-binary, non-CIS gendered, etc. to be in F1. But these people are TROLLING (for the most part). After the boy in a dress thing happened, sure, some people took to Twitter and pointed out the male:female ratio in F1....to which some people responded, "yup, better mandate 50/50 participation"....and some other people actually take these comments seriously. I don't think people are really aware of the level and scale of the trolling that is going on in the world today.
Last bit, not sure if that's a fair label to put on @Johnnypenso. Ask him, is he Conservative? Or is he perhaps Libertarian and the Overton Window has shifted left? Just my own observation, but I see Johnny and myself agreeing on quite a few issue lately....but I grew up in a weed farming town in BC, and have always considered myself left leaning. It's just that lately, my left doesn't seem to be left enough. Annacdotal, but about a year ago, I took a survey on Twitter about election reform in Canada. At the end of the survey, they placed me in a group (surprise), but then also told me my "personal score". I answered the survey honestly, the only issue o took a strong stand on was a series of questions regarding what I can only describe as "mandatory minorities" in the government. Because I'm against this, the survey put me in the far right group (The "Innovators" believe it or not, compared to the far left group called "The Guardians"....think about that for a minute, let it sink in...that's backwards!), and put me personally about a country mile RIGHT of the most right leaning group. The survey basically called me a Nazi because I think government should be comprised of the most competent people.
Furthermore, and I'm no poly-sci major, but I thought conservitism had a lot to do with protecting the rights of the individual from the collective. Your idea of conservatism protecting rich business is, I believe, the MSNBC interpretation of crony capitalism.
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- Johnnypenso
The SJW nonsense comes in to play because of responses like this. Your hypothesis is nothing more than painting those who disagree with the decision as mysoginists or sexist pigs or whatever the pc term that applies is, with prettier words of course. You try to besmirch the character of the responders rather than discussion the subject itself. Also known as an ad hominem attack.
That would be wrong. At no point have I said that F1 doesn't have the right to make this decision. Of course they do it's their business but that doesn't mean that I have to think it's the right decision or that I agree with the motivations behind it. Since it looks like you've been reading some of my posts you should also know that I abhor political correctness which is the basis for this decision, IMHO.
AMPMROCKETFANN
(Banned)
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- MARYLAND fo sho
- AMPMROCKETFANN
Just came to say
LennyB
(Banned)
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- United States
Straight from google.
CONSERVATIVES – Generally believe in personal responsibility, limited government, free markets, individual liberty, traditional American values and a strong national defense. Also believe the role of government should be to provide people the freedom necessary to pursue their own goals.
It is not a conservative value to bash people and take away their liberties, you must be thinking of another group of people.
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I think another reason people misrepresent conservitism is that political conservitism and Christian conservitism get muddled together. Am I wrong in think that, in theory, those are two different things? It's very possible for a gay person to be in favour of limited government, individual liberty (I would think that would strike home with many gay people no?), free markets, etc. It's also very possible for someone who is pro-choice to be in favour of limited government, individual liberty, etc.
Straight from google.
CONSERVATIVES – Generally believe in personal responsibility, limited government, free markets, individual liberty, traditional American values and a strong national defense. Also believe the role of government should be to provide people the freedom necessary to pursue their own goals.
It is not a conservative value to bash people and take away their liberties, you must be thinking of another group of people.
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- 1,281
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- Twoclicks_ZA
The irony runs deep, I'm sure there are plenty of conservative christians against the idea of grid girls, I'm also sure the minority that is the progressive left is also against the idea.
Bring em back, hell we need Bernie back.
Conservative Christian here, one who doesn't watch F1 for eye candy, never watched a race other than on TV. Banning grid girls doesn't affect me in any way, and is in no way going to affect me with relation to the sport itself. What doesn't sit well with me, like most of the others who are against this idea, is the way they've done it. It's going to lead them to believe that two wrongs can make a right, and we're going to be heading down a slippery slope soon because identity politics was given a foothold. It definitely wasn't Christians making this decision.
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- Johnnypenso
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Grid Girls are being replaced by Grid Kids
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/formula-1-replaces-grid-girls-with-kids-1002307/
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/formula-1-replaces-grid-girls-with-kids-1002307/
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- Lisboa
- FLAT_TWELVE
Apples and oranges.
This isn't a "Grid Girls" vs "Grid Kids" issue because "Grid Kids" won't be working for F1. Kids can't be left standing on the racing grid with the drivers placard, nor can they be there holding an umbrela to protect drivers from the sun.
It is just F1 trying to avoid the backlash created by their decision. And saving money in the process, because grid girls are paid workers (to be replaced by team members, also workers but paid by the teams). And "Grid Kids" are nothing more than a PR stunt.
Btw, I'll echo here the words of a spanish "Gird Girl", in a letter she wrote in reply to an article in the spanish "Mundo Deportivo" (letter that they subsquentely published also). Beware, it's a Google Translation from the spanish original, but it is readable.
This isn't a "Grid Girls" vs "Grid Kids" issue because "Grid Kids" won't be working for F1. Kids can't be left standing on the racing grid with the drivers placard, nor can they be there holding an umbrela to protect drivers from the sun.
It is just F1 trying to avoid the backlash created by their decision. And saving money in the process, because grid girls are paid workers (to be replaced by team members, also workers but paid by the teams). And "Grid Kids" are nothing more than a PR stunt.
Btw, I'll echo here the words of a spanish "Gird Girl", in a letter she wrote in reply to an article in the spanish "Mundo Deportivo" (letter that they subsquentely published also). Beware, it's a Google Translation from the spanish original, but it is readable.
Open letter from Paola Pinar against the decision of F1
They take away our work, but hey, they do it for our own good. This work that they describe as macho and old-fashioned is a job that we like all those who do it, we do it because we want to, because we have fun, because we live an experience from within, and because they pay us well even sometimes VERY well.
The problem is not in the work, the problem is in your brains, there is the real machism. Have you ever considered the amount of work of hostesses there? Surely not, surely if you are not in this world you are not able to see how this work really is and you believe you have the right to express your opinion about something you do not have a clue about.
Within all the works of stewardesses, circuits are probably one of the best jobs, because no matter how much you are working as an image and an advert, in 99% of the cases people treat you with the greatest respect, they take care of you, you do not lack nothing.
Everything changes if you work as a stewardess for a brand of alcohol at night, in a nightclub full of drunks at 3 in the morning, sometimes alone. Has anyone considered prohibiting this work? I invite all those who criticize and support the decision to eliminate the 'Grid Girls' of Formula 1, go to any night promotion, what's more, I would dare to say that even some of you, brave and feminist critics during the day, any night with two more drinks has intimidated some stewardess when she tried to do her job. There is danger there, but not because of the work itself but because of the people around you while you try to work. But of course, that's not media, that does not appear on the news, so nobody speaks. But well, not everything happens only when we work, machism is on the street, every day, anywhere. You walk and a guy tells you all kinds of denigrating "compliments", they whistle at you, stop the van and you shut up and keep walking looking straight ahead. Do not ever stop, stand up and send them to hell because then they call you a bitch and they run away accelerating. Maybe we should reeducate people instead of banning jobs that in no way denigrate, humiliate or make women less.
I send this to you with all due respect, since I have seen an article speaking on the subject, when nobody has asked us the opinion. This is the other side of the matter. We are happy with our work and we do not want to stop doing it.
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- Belifant
she raises an interesting point, but not in favour of grid girls: She mentions the work in night clubs as an example, where promotion girls can feel unsafe and threatened by some idiots. Wouldn't it make sense that the objectification of women (grid girls) actually fuels the culture where men feel it is ok to treat women like this?
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- Spurgy777
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- Lewis_Hamilton_
I used to work in night clubs for years and I regularly felt unsafe and threatened almost every weekend (by both sexes). My experience left me with the impression that a large number of people who attend nightclubs didn't do so for a fun time, but did so to unleash the inner A-hole pent up inside of them.
Not to mention the sheer amount of physical sexual abuse I endured from women who thought it was totally ok to shove their hand down the front of my underwear and cop a skin-on-skin feel, a slap on the butt on the way past, grabbing my ring finger and simulating a blow job on it stating "I bet she isn't as good as that", trying to pull my clothes off, or suddenly pulling me into the female toilets or pinning me against the wall for a quick kiss and dick grab, because they were women and I was a man, so it's somehow all acceptable and I'm supposed to enjoy it... Not to forget that turning down these "advances" were nearly always topped off with physical assault (getting slapped) and accused of being gay...
Personally I wouldn't use night clubs to compare with most other social or business places and situations.
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It's a drop in the ocean... there are vastly more significant issues at play here. Kids watch porn, grid girls contribute bugger all to the problem...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36527681
Roo
Premium
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- Hampshire, UK
- GTP_Roo
This was exactly what I was hoping for, thank you 👍
I know, so I tagged him to bring it to his attention as I didn't want to speak for him.
I've never watched MSNBC, so wouldn't know which way they lean politically. That idea of conservatism - which was really me asking "So is it like this?" rather than "I think it's this!" - came from what little I could interpret from the Opinions and Current Events subforum.
I know all this. I formed a viewpoint of my own that I felt was unsatisfactory, so I asked - repeatedly - for a differing one. Noone was either willing or able to present one, so I posted what had occured to me, explained why I wanted it to be wrong, and happily @twitcher was able to reply with a well-thought out, reasonable post.
Of the last few days in this thread I've been attempting to better myself and rise above my own gut reaction. I have found inviting people to show me an alternative viewpoint because I wasn't happy with my own to be surprisingly difficult. Edit: that previous sentence was a statement, not a passive aggressive insult.
Fair enough, I have no problem with that.
Retro-edit: not sure why this popped into my mind several months later but actually I do have a problem with it, I just can't articulate it well enough to take this any further.
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- AbsoluteBarstool
- AbsolutBarstool
Who is that pan-fried cop-out of a joker that they've brought on to the GMB set? I mean Piers is bad enough, but a woman actively advocating for restrictions on women's career choices because she doesn't like the sight of models in front of cars for a few hours?
Along with the #NoHalo crowd, she's surely lost her goddamned mind!
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- soundtiger95
The women’s points didn’t even make sense. She was essentially saying that the women don’t have a choice in what they wear or how they act, therefore they’re being oppressed. I seriously question whether or not she’s had a job before. Employers typically set the rules for what is and isn’t proper attire and how they want their employees to act. This job is no different.
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"What? You can't tell me that I need to work on this team and do that! I have rights!"
Yeah. The worst sides of the gender politicians in the light of their own ridiculousness and borderline-malice here. I cannot believe that this has panned out like this.
After experiencing the 2010s, though, I can't say I'm particularly surprised by this fiasco.
Simply removing them will probably indeed, do nothing. I do wonder if anyone would even notice their absence, even people with starting grid access due to how busy the grid is, and how, it's a motor-racing event...
But I think the introduction of 'Grid Kids' can actually do a lot of real good. More kids getting involved and inspired my motor-racing means more kids supporting local karting tracks and race courses.
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- InfamousPhil79
IDK, Twitch... 'David' is a statute. What l do know is that the 'model is there to entice the attendees... as if the subject doesnt accomplish this already. Grid girls were always a waste of money... like a charity for girls are unable to keep focus because of constant attention given to them.
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