Forza 3 worth purchasing a console and wheel?

[Joey D]

It's just a game dude, play it and have fun.

 

[Moglet]

-Class System is broken: Take a look at the Euro GT Cup. It features the BMW Z4 (Class B-438) and a Ford Mustang (Class D-289) among it's cars that meet the class requirements. Make the GT4 cup racing modifications to each car in Forza 3 and look at the disparity in ratings and performance. In the real world, these cars compete against each other in the GT4 Euro Cup. Take a look at how Gran Turismo 5 Prologue sets it's cars based on performance. There is no broken letter grade that affects leaderboard times.

The letter based rating is just a rough guide to performance, it's not 100% accurate and never claims to be

-The Racing Tires: My main beef with this is my favorite car of all time is the Pontiac GTO. In Forza 3, they have a late 60's model featured in game, and when I put racing tires on it, the car is moved to C class. It cannot compete due to weight of the vehicle with several of the C class cars. Using my GT4 Cup as the example again, adding racing tires shoud never take a car out of class. There is no "threshold rating system". They use similar cars in performance. They add Pirelli tires to each car. I didn't have the time to look at every car that's on the approved list for the GT4 Cup, I would be curious to see how they rate on Forza 3.

You're assuming that the tyres are just there to make the car a racing car. Putting slick tyres on a car will increase the performance, therefore it increases the PI number. It's not hard to understand. If you want to keep it in a lower class, don't add the damn tyres!

- The auto setting transmission: Yes, you can manually set the final drive and each of the gears once you install a racing transmission. Congratulations. I don't have an issue with that. However, I do have an issue of when setting my final gear ratio, gears 1-6 do nothing. That's right, no matter how close I make the gears, they do no not change.

They do, because I alter the final ratio on my BTCC car every week to suit the track and gears 1-6 change with it. I knocked 2 seconds off my practice laps this week by simply altering the final drive ratio.

The aerodynamic issue: Staying in Honor of Jordan's victory in GT Academy, I used the Euro GT4 approved Nissan 370Z (Class B-441) as my example. I ran an experiment with parts to prove my statment as either the in game wording/numbers as being broken or modification system being a failure. Why put an arcade numerical value of the cars in the first place??
Baseline Nissan 370Z (B Class-441)
SPEED - 6.6
HANDLING - 5.6
ACCELERATION - 5.5
LAUNCH - 6.4
BRAKING -5.3
I installed racing tires which increased the handling to 5.7, the launch to 6.6, and the braking to 5.5. All good here.
I installed a racing transmission to the car, and the launch decreased to 4.5. That's a numerical drop of nearly 2 of Forza's points. Say what?

A racing gear box has shorter ratios, affecting the launch as you're more likely to get higher revs quicker off the line.

You can add the "Forza" rear wing to the car, and watch the speed take a half a point fall. You can't defend the logic in that. The aero wing does not hamper your speed that much.

Have you ever wondered why, when you want the Veyron to reach high speeds in real life, you have to insert a key to force the spoiler to stay down? Think about the way the air flows against a spoiler. There's a reason a good air brake on a high end car will perform as much braking as a family car.

-The numbers between Forza 2 and 3: Anyone can fool themselves in believing that the game is ok when comparing the 6 month numbers between the titles. Take a look at the online community of Forza 3. Last weekend, on a Saturday night, there was 100 people playing the game. Low numbers if you ask me, especially for "definitive" simulator.

Where are you getting those numbers from? Did you go into every single race type and add up every single player online? Because there is WAY more than 100 people online at any time. Your claim is absolutely absurd and is not backed up with any evidence.

 

[ItsHim]

I would never buy a console without proper 3rd party wheel support again. The most fun with Forza is online, but to get up to a competitive level starting just now is a rather tough call. You'd either be a very talented chap, or spend a couple of hours a day practising, earning money for tunes and/or learn how to tune yourself. If you find some decent buddies, it is a lot of fun, but be prepared to spend most races in a few different cars only.

I would settle for a wheel for the PS3 and some titles from the bargain bin - like Shift, really.

It's just not the same with a controller, though Snooker is a lot of fun with it

 

[Terronium-12]

-Tracks are unrealistic: As I stated, outside of the real world tracks, Turn 10 has alot to work on. A majority of the tracks feel competely unnatural. The turns feel forced, and the roads themselves do not have the flow that can be found in GT. Even the ambient surroundings have a picture perfect look to some of them, all the while avoiding the gritty dull look that alot of venues represent.

If you want something that feels like Gran Turismo, then, play Gran Turismo.

I don't have too much of a problem with any of the tracks, they're all well layed-out, and I'm not too fussed over trivial details. The only thing that would bother me in the slightest is the 'Ring, but then I'm pretty sure everyone knows what the problem is there.

The aerodynamic issue:
You can add the "Forza" rear wing to the car, and watch the speed take a half a point fall. You can't defend the logic in that. The aero wing does not hamper your speed that much. Now granted, I am do not have a degree in aerodynamic engineering, nor do I work as a professional racer/member of the pit either.

If you apply a rear wing to your vehicle you're going to lose some of the top-end speed as your honing in on superior downforce and outright acceleration. You can't have both top speed and downforce....just doesn't work that way, sorry.

- In closing: Forza 3 is a game that attempts to please everyone instead of maintaining a simulator approach first. Things like this bother me. Things like this are the reason I do not play the game anymore. Things like this are the reason Gran Turismo is where it is today, and that's head and shoulders over everyone.

You are aware Gran Turismo does practically the same thing, right?

It has (or rather is going to have) a scalable damage model alongside a scalable physics models, so what's the problem there? You can't cater to a specific group of people on a console, especially if you fancy paying the rent and feeding yourself.

 

[maxpontiac]

The letter based rating is just a rough guide to performance, it's not 100% accurate and never claims to be

Nice excuse. If was not intendend to be accurate and only a rough guide, why put it in the first place? What do you mean, "never claims to be". It does what they intended it to do.

You're assuming that the tyres are just there to make the car a racing car. Putting slick tyres on a car will increase the performance, therefore it increases the PI number. It's not hard to understand. If you want to keep it in a lower class, don't add the damn tyres!

Side stepping once again. As I stated, it's a broken feature, that has no real world basis. Cars define a class, tires don't. That is unless you are Turn 10 and Forza 3.

They do, because I alter the final ratio on my BTCC car every week to suit the track and gears 1-6 change with it. I knocked 2 seconds off my practice laps this week by simply altering the final drive ratio.
A racing gear box has shorter ratios, affecting the launch as you're more likely to get higher revs quicker off the line.

Ignoring the facts do nothing for your points. The ratio's in gears one through six DO NOT MOVE when you are adjusting the final ratio. Of course you knocked off time, your final drive was lower. It translates to the track. The individual gears do not move. Go look for yourself.

Have you ever wondered why, when you want the Veyron to reach high speeds in real life, you have to insert a key to force the spoiler to stay down? Think about the way the air flows against a spoiler. There's a reason a good air brake on a high end car will perform as much braking as a family car.

I understand that. Wings in Forza are far to drastic and rely on the added weight to much. Take a look at how your car worsens in PI when you add a full LSD? That's due to Turn 10's bogus weight system.

Where are you getting those numbers from? Did you go into every single race type and add up every single player online? Because there is WAY more than 100 people online at any time. Your claim is absolutely absurd and is not backed up with any evidence.

You figure out how I did it. It's not hard to do.

 

[Terronium-12]

Side stepping once again. As I stated, it's a broken feature, that has no real world basis. Cars define a class, tires don't. That is unless you are Turn 10 and Forza 3.

Um, I don't think so.

Performance defines a class, not the car itself. If that were the case there wouldn't be any eminent difference between an LMP1-class racer, and a Formula 1 racer.

 

[maxpontiac]

If you want something that feels like Gran Turismo, then, play Gran Turismo.

Indeed. That's what I do. I was hoping Forza 3 would have been an alternative that I would like.

I don't have too much of a problem with any of the tracks, they're all well layed-out, and I'm not too fussed over trivial details. The only thing that would bother me in the slightest is the 'Ring, but then I'm pretty sure everyone knows what the problem is there.

That's fine for you. For me, the tracks bother me. We disagree. Bummer.

If you apply a rear wing to your vehicle you're going to lose some of the top-end speed as your honing in on superior downforce and outright acceleration. You can't have both top speed and downforce....just doesn't work that way, sorry.

I understand that. Downforce hurts your speed. Well known fact. Forza treats it like a hinderance. That's not what it does. By all means, if someone has the time to thoroughly investigate the matter, by all means please do. I don't see how just by adding a wing kills your speed like that. Putting downforce on a wing, sure. But 1/2 point in speed? Seems wrong.

You are aware Gran Turismo does practically the same thing, right?

When Gran Turismo auto steers, come and see me.

It has (or rather is going to have) a scalable damage model alongside a scalable physics models, so what's the problem there? You can't cater to a specific group of people on a console, especially if you fancy paying the rent and feeding yourself.

Of course. See my above comment.

 

[maxpontiac]

Um, I don't think so.

Performance defines a class, not the car itself. If that were the case there wouldn't be any eminent difference between an LMP1-class racer, and a Formula 1 racer.

Of course.. the performance of car. In Forza, it makes zero sense to move a 60's GTO out of class just because I want to put racing tires on it.

 

[Terronium-12]

I understand that. Downforce hurts your speed. Well known fact. Forza treats it like a hinderance. That's not what it does. By all means, if someone has the time to thoroughly investigate the matter, by all means please do. I don't see how just by adding a wing kills your speed like that. Putting downforce on a wing, sure. But 1/2 point in speed? Seems wrong.

Without getting overly technical, in a matter of speaking it manipulates the wind resistance that would otherwise prevent your vehicle from reaching it's top speed (due to various reasons) without sufficient drafting and converts it into downright stability (downforce), if you want that speed back while still utilizing the wing, lower the flap so air will flow straight across, as opposed to up and over.

Of course.. the performance of car. In Forza, it makes zero sense to move a 60's GTO out of class just because I want to put racing tires on it.

Didn't you just answer your own query by agreeing it's the performance of a car that defines it's class?

 

[phil-t]

Without getting overly technical, in a matter of speaking it manipulates the wind resistance that would otherwise prevent your vehicle from reaching it's top speed (due to various reasons) without sufficient drafting and converts it into downright stability (downforce), if you want that speed back while still utilizing the wing, lower the flap so air will flow straight across, as opposed to up and over.



Didn't you just answer your own query by agreeing it's the performance of a car that defines it's class?

I agree..

Everyone is entitled to voice their opinion, but I think we are universally in agreement that the PI system is fine for what it is, and that a car 'class' and a PI class are two totally different things..

- In closing: Forza 3 is a game that attempts to please everyone instead of maintaining a simulator approach first. Things like this bother me. Things like this are the reason I do not play the game anymore. Things like this are the reason Gran Turismo is where it is today, and that's head and shoulders over everyone.

I'd glad he's sticking to GT4, if that's the measure of his racing simulator, there isn't much that'll match it (everything else has moved on..)

 

[Moglet]

Nice excuse. If was not intendend to be accurate and only a rough guide, why put it in the first place? What do you mean, "never claims to be". It does what they intended it to do.

They put it in to make the online racing and the single player events closer in competition. No 2 cars are exactly the same, so even if the PI is the same one might have higher straight line speed etc.

Side stepping once again. As I stated, it's a broken feature, that has no real world basis. Cars define a class, tires don't. That is unless you are Turn 10 and Forza 3.

Side stepping? I addressed the issue head on by using logic. Cars DO NOT define a class. PI rating does. I have a Range Rover that competes with lightweight sports cars, they're not in the same class in the real world but they're both class C due to the similarity in performance.

Ignoring the facts do nothing for your points. The ratio's in gears one through six DO NOT MOVE when you are adjusting the final ratio. Of course you knocked off time, your final drive was lower. It translates to the track. The individual gears do not move. Go look for yourself.

My car maxed out at 60mph in 2nd, I adjusted the final ratio and it topped out at 72mph. I don't see your problem.

I understand that. Wings in Forza are far to drastic and rely on the added weight to much. Take a look at how your car worsens in PI when you add a full LSD? That's due to Turn 10's bogus weight system.

They're not at all drastic. If the spoiler is adjusted to give full downforce you lose a lot of top end speed. Just like in real life. The numbers on the ratings 'Speed, Launch, Handling' etc. are all only rough guides. Each car drives and behaves differently, it's up to you to test drive them to see the differences.

You figure out how I did it. It's not hard to do.

Or you could just tell me instead of avoiding my question. You're being so smug about it it would be nice if you could prove your data.

 

[HLRJigsaw]

FM3 is a great game!! If you want to put LB times up then I hope you are willing to use AWD cars. Yes if you are willing to face RROD then buy the 360 and a wheel. I used the MS wireless. It's only problem is, no clutch pedal. Go into settings and make the clutch the "b" button. Your hand will thank you for it.

FM3 is a great game, with some draw backs. Plenty of DLC, AWD domination, and slow response on clearing cheaters from the LB's. Also: Stick to private lobbies. If you want to venture out into general lobbies then make sure you are in a party with at least 4 other people. That way when an idiot decides to jump in a LB car at the last moment before a race starts then you can be ready to vote him or her out, and have the balance of power on your side.

 

[ItsHim]

The PI system is still broken with FM3, period. Doesn't really matter though, because for online play, there's a bunch of good and cheap tunes readily available for those who care to compete. Go get some SloPok3 rides, bunch of decent chaps, real driver's cars.

Forza is a brilliant sandbox/online/community franchise. It just happens it is about cars. If it's a system seller, I don't know. You can have a lot of fun, but it requires total dedication because you'll be competing with the top 200 players.

Now back to the drama, if you please

 

[McLaren]

If I was to get Forza 3 and buy the 360 for it, it's the only game I'd be playing on the 360. It's not worth it, and one of the mechanics at work childishly bashes Gran Turismo all the time saying how much better Forza's physics are and how much more of an awesome game it is. Yeah right. It only gives me more reason not to buy it. If I bought Forza 3 now, it'd be dropped and never picked up ever again when GT5 comes out later this year, which would be a complete waste of money.

No, it's not. The only people rating FM3's physics above GT's are the fanboys & I can find those same idiots in the GT5 section boasting how GT5 physics are so much better.

The fact you let fanboys decide if a game is a purchase though, says enough. 👎

 

[maxpontiac]

They put it in to make the online racing and the single player events closer in competition. No 2 cars are exactly the same, so even if the PI is the same one might have higher straight line speed etc.

If that's what they did, they failed miserably. The competition between AWD and everything else is non existent. Look at the leaderboards.

Side stepping? I addressed the issue head on by using logic. Cars DO NOT define a class. PI rating does. I have a Range Rover that competes with lightweight sports cars, they're not in the same class in the real world but they're both class C due to the similarity in performance.

You are only fooling yourself if you believe that Forza 3's tire system is accurate. My example with the Euro GT Cup proves my point. The BMW M4 is a higher rated car then the Ford Mustang GT in Forza 3. Build the cars to the specs (as close as possible) and you'll see exactly what I am talking about. The entire GT4 group has comparable cars, that run a competitive race season. Tires are all but one piece of the puzzle. NOT the defining piece as Forza makes it seem on most of the cars. Look at some of the other racing leagues worldwide for further evidence.

My car maxed out at 60mph in 2nd, I adjusted the final ratio and it topped out at 72mph. I don't see your problem.

Of course you don't. It doesn't change the fact that the individual gear ratio's are fixed. They do NOT move. It's an auto set used by turn 10 to fit whatever final drive setting used. It's not right. Bottom line.

They're not at all drastic. If the spoiler is adjusted to give full downforce you lose a lot of top end speed. Just like in real life. The numbers on the ratings 'Speed, Launch, Handling' etc. are all only rough guides. Each car drives and behaves differently, it's up to you to test drive them to see the differences.

I understand that. It's an arcade approach for a one size fits all. Let the cars actual traits do the defining. Nearly every car I have tested is around 1/2 a Forza point. IF the ratings mean nothing, they should be done away completely. But that might make the Burnout Paradise crowds nervous right?

Or you could just tell me instead of avoiding my question. You're being so smug about it it would be nice if you could prove your data.

Not trying to be smug at all. I just expected common sense here. I'll spell it out for you, I guess. I just checked online right before I came here. All that's needed is to look at the "Find Game" tab in the online menu. You will see the multiple mode types and the people playing each mode. It was a few moments ago and there was 799 people online.
Quick Match - 72
Playground - 216
Circuit - 276
Drift -157
Multi Class - 47
Road - 31

 

[maxpontiac]

Without getting overly technical, in a matter of speaking it manipulates the wind resistance that would otherwise prevent your vehicle from reaching it's top speed (due to various reasons) without sufficient drafting and converts it into downright stability (downforce), if you want that speed back while still utilizing the wing, lower the flap so air will flow straight across, as opposed to up and over.



Didn't you just answer your own query by agreeing it's the performance of a car that defines it's class?

I understand the technical aspects of downforce. But thanks for another explanation.

A cars class. I guess it all comes down the fact that Forza 3 has an imaginary Class system for it's non racing cars, and whether or not you accept it.

I for one, do not. It's broken.

 

[phil-t]

I understand the technical aspects of downforce. But thanks for another explanation.

A cars class. I guess it all comes down the fact that Forza 3 has an imaginary Class system for it's non racing cars, and whether or not you accept it.

I for one, do not. It's broken.

It's only broken if you start being highly illogical and making up criteria under which to judge it..

Any game employing a 'car class' system is also broken, simply because if you have to stick to racing cars of the same class, that's massively limiiting, but if it does allow you to race different classes of cars against each other, what's the point of the class system?

Perhaps your next complaint is that Forza Motorsport is spelt incorrectly, it should be spelt G-r-a-n T-u-r-i-s-m-o.. (A bit of jest!)

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

Individual gears are locked? Not in my copy of F3...
One question tho: How do you know the cars on leaderboards are all AWD? I mean I think so too, but didn't find a way to see this actually...

BTW thanks for all the ranting, now I love the tuning section even more, it's just simply awesome what you can achieve with little changes.
And again my advice DO NOT put racing tires on a stock spec car, it just makes no sense.

 

[Moglet]

If that's what they did, they failed miserably. The competition between AWD and everything else is non existent. Look at the leaderboards.

The AWD competition thing is massively, massively flawed, I agree with you there, but the PI rating system is fairly decent at providing close racing 99% of the time. In my weekly race series on another forum the PI limit is set to 550, and the laps only have 1-2 seconds between them.

You are only fooling yourself if you believe that Forza 3's tire system is accurate. My example with the Euro GT Cup proves my point. The BMW M4 is a higher rated car then the Ford Mustang GT in Forza 3. Build the cars to the specs (as close as possible) and you'll see exactly what I am talking about. The entire GT4 group has comparable cars, that run a competitive race season. Tires are all but one piece of the puzzle. NOT the defining piece as Forza makes it seem on most of the cars. Look at some of the other racing leagues worldwide for further evidence.

I never said it was accurate. They only offer 3 types of tyres for a start. Referencing the real world is pointless unless you know exactly how every real race car in the Euro GT Cup is built. There are some guidelines, but some cars will always be quicker than others. This is the same for a lot of motorsport events, the WRC, BTCC etc. The tyres are not the defining factor though, the mods as a whole are. That said, there's a difference between taking a road car and modifying it and building an entire race car off the chassis and engine.

Of course you don't. It doesn't change the fact that the individual gear ratio's are fixed. They do NOT move. It's an auto set used by turn 10 to fit whatever final drive setting used. It's not right. Bottom line.

I don't really understand what your point here is. Are you saying that when you alter the final drive, the other gears only change relatively to each other? Because that's what happens in GT4 too. It does, however, convert to a difference in the race.

If you're suggesting that by moving the slider in 1st gear (for example) to the end of the 'speed' column you're making no difference to the car, then you're wrong. I have a drag car which has the gears fully customized to run on a drag strip.

I understand that. It's an arcade approach for a one size fits all. Let the cars actual traits do the defining. Nearly every car I have tested is around 1/2 a Forza point. IF the ratings mean nothing, they should be done away completely. But that might make the Burnout Paradise crowds nervous right?

I agree with you, the ratings system is ridiculous. I never look at it myself, as what seems like good handling to me might be terrible handling to you. If you alter the tune setup you could make a car rated 10 in the handling appear like a car rated 1. It's a pointless system for petrolheads, but it's good for the casual players. They've aimed Forza 3 at everyone, not just car enthusiasts.

Not trying to be smug at all. I just expected common sense here. I'll spell it out for you, I guess. I just checked online right before I came here. All that's needed is to look at the "Find Game" tab in the online menu. You will see the multiple mode types and the people playing each mode. It was a few moments ago and there was 799 people online.
Quick Match - 72
Playground - 216
Circuit - 276
Drift -157
Multi Class - 47
Road - 31

I don't really play Forza 3 online apart from with friends, that's why I asked how to find out the number of players. Thanks for explaining it. 799 people is more than enough for decent online play though. Hell, even 100 people is enough to play against, surely? If there were nobody online at all there would be a problem, but there are still people to race with. More people I know race with their friends instead, it's more fun.

But you know what? It's still 799 more than are playing GT5 online right now.

 

[12thgear]

If racing is your focus I really don't think it's worth getting an Xbox 360 unless you feel like investing in one of the Fanatec Porsche 911 Turbo S models. It's a universal wheel, so you could use it with your PS3 and PC as well. It transforms Forza 3, and offers a lot more precision over the Xbox 360 Wireless Racing Wheel, which I feel is a pretty subpar wheel compared to most of Logitech's PS3 and PC products. I guess I got spoiled from experience with the Driving Force Pro and G25 prior to getting the Fanatec.

If you do get an Xbox 360, you might want to take a look at Race Pro. It was developed by SimBin, the creators of the GTR series for PC. It's perhaps the only pure sim out for any console. That makes it a bit dry, and it lacks a lot of the niceties we take for granted in console games when it comes to interface, ease of use, etc., but it drives really well.

Also, it's been my experience that wheel support in cross-platform games is generally better for PS3, probably because Logitech has offered PS2 and PS3 wheels for a while now, and developers know what they're targeting when tuning wheel input. That also means proper 900 degree support in more racing titles on PS3 too.

 

[Raitziger]

Good game, bad simulator. Boring for sim fans.

 

[phil-t]

Good game, bad simulator. Boring for sim fans.

It's not a terrible sim though is it? it's just a bit 'sanitised'.. and considering unless GT5 pulls something out of the hat, that's also going to be in the same boat regarding simulators..

By that, I mean, anyone seriously into sims isn't going to touch a console with a bargepole, even Race Pro is just no-where near anything on the PC, not that I think GT5 is going to be any worse/better then FM3..

What good sims do you play out of interest?, I gave up a year ago on the more hardcore sims, and I've only kept rFactor to give my G25 the occasional workout, however my PWTS should arrive shortly, so might see what's current and worth playing..

 

[m00ndancer]

First, I really like Forza for what it is. My "only" problem is the investment I have to do.
I really detest the MS wheel, it's really a "cheep" for the price.
And I have some decent wheels and pedals for PS3 and PC.

If I had unlimited funds, I E no kids and wife , I would get this:

360 Elite with Forza ~ €210
Fanatec PWTS standard €350 + transport ~€400

Forza is not worth €610.

Other sims: rFactor with the Enduracers and HistoricX mods, (They are hardcore mods btw, no aids unless they have it in real life, ALMS use TC)

 

[TBR 427]

Why is anyone even considering the wheel?

By now you should have all noticed that you can't kill the steering aids, even on a wheel. It's like buying a manual gearstick and a clutch pedal for the new Nissan GTR. The thought is nice, but it's still going to do what IT wants, which isn't exactly what YOU want it to do.

I've found the added advantage of a G27 in games like Race On and rFactor and what not, over a controller or (gasp) keyboard are the fine movements and corrections and what not that an aware driver should be making. It's a brilliant way to improve the experience and it adds another level of challenges that are really rewarding to nail for laps on end.

Forza 3 does those for you, and until they either patch it so it (steering assist) doesn't apply to wheel users (and face balance issues of wheel v controller that would cause a lot of rage, like Supercar Challenge) or patch it so there's an option to kill it completely for pure wheel-to-game movement (and suffer the same fate as everything that ISN'T AWD), then it defeats the purpose of using a wheel I think. Unless you really like playing pretend, as in pretending the large wad of cash you spent on a Fanatec was a good choice...

 

[phil-t]

Why is anyone even considering the wheel?

By now you should have all noticed that you can't kill the steering aids, even on a wheel. It's like buying a manual gearstick and a clutch pedal for the new Nissan GTR. The thought is nice, but it's still going to do what IT wants, which isn't exactly what YOU want it to do.

I've found the added advantage of a G27 in games like Race On and rFactor and what not, over a controller or (gasp) keyboard are the fine movements and corrections and what not that an aware driver should be making. It's a brilliant way to improve the experience and it adds another level of challenges that are really rewarding to nail for laps on end.

Forza 3 does those for you, and until they either patch it so it (steering assist) doesn't apply to wheel users (and face balance issues of wheel v controller that would cause a lot of rage, like Supercar Challenge) or patch it so there's an option to kill it completely for pure wheel-to-game movement (and suffer the same fate as everything that ISN'T AWD), then it defeats the purpose of using a wheel I think. Unless you really like playing pretend, as in pretending the large wad of cash you spent on a Fanatec was a good choice...

Luckily I don't have the uber skills you do, where you can detect everything going on in a physics engine so deeply that you know for sure just how much of an impact this is having.

So In my blissful ignorant state, I'm getting the Fanatec to carry on enjoying FM3 and also looking forward to using it in GT5..

I wondered why FM3 was so easy to drive, when I've set some top 10 leaderboard times, I just had autobrake ON, and with this steering aid all I had to do was roughly point the car in the right direction and nail the throttle.. awesome!

 

[12thgear]

Why is anyone even considering the wheel?

By now you should have all noticed that you can't kill the steering aids, even on a wheel. It's like buying a manual gearstick and a clutch pedal for the new Nissan GTR. The thought is nice, but it's still going to do what IT wants, which isn't exactly what YOU want it to do.

Sure, the steering is diluted, but there's still a drastic difference in using the wheel vs the controller. The Fanatec kit also gives me analog clutch control, a really good load sensing brake, and of course, excellent steering precision.

Forza 3 does those for you, and until they either patch it so it (steering assist) doesn't apply to wheel users (and face balance issues of wheel v controller that would cause a lot of rage, like Supercar Challenge) or patch it so there's an option to kill it completely for pure wheel-to-game movement (and suffer the same fate as everything that ISN'T AWD), then it defeats the purpose of using a wheel I think. Unless you really like playing pretend, as in pretending the large wad of cash you spent on a Fanatec was a good choice...

I'd love to see a patch for Forza 3 that allows the option to turn off that last bit of assist. I really hope we don't have to wait for Forza 4 for that. But even without that, a wheel still adds a lot to Forza, and as shocking as it may seem, some of us have a lot of fun playing Forza with a wheel, even while acknowledging the limits of the current steering implementation. That's annoying, but Turn 10 got a lot of things right regarding overall feel and physics. There's plenty of room for improvement, but I still can enjoy it for what it is, even with experience with more demanding driving games. You make it sound like it's an all or nothing proposition. That because the game has a bit of steering assist that can't be turned off, the whole game is ruined for everyone. I disagree with that statement.

I do agree that spending serious money on the Fanatec wheel just for Forza doesn't seem like the best value proposition. I think it makes the most sense if you also have a PS3 or PC.

 

[Raitziger]

What good sims do you play out of interest?, I gave up a year ago on the more hardcore sims, and I've only kept rFactor to give my G25 the occasional workout, however my PWTS should arrive shortly, so might see what's current and worth playing..

Well i play LFS time to time, i had rfactor installed but did not get FFB working very well with turbo S (takes time). The most i have been playing enthusia professional racing. I also have GT legends so i am planning to try that historic mod for rfactor that requires gt legends disc. I got rid of my old cockpit and now my racing game enthusiasm goes toward building a new cockpit.

 

[12thgear]

Well i play LFS time to time, i had rfactor installed but did not get FFB working very well with turbo S (takes time). The most i have been playing enthusia professional racing. I also have GT legends so i am planning to try that historic mod for rfactor that requires gt legends disc. I got rid of my old cockpit and now my racing game enthusiasm goes toward building a new cockpit.

My best experiences with rFactor and the Turbo S involve either tweaking the baked in FFB settings or using RealFeel. In the PWTS drivers I had FFB up all the way, and dampening all Fanatec provides. Also, the FFB forces in game need to be set to negative numbers, or the effects are reversed.

I need to pick up a cheap copy of Enthusia. The last time I played it I didn't own a wheel.

 

[phil-t]

Well i play LFS time to time, i had rfactor installed but did not get FFB working very well with turbo S (takes time). The most i have been playing enthusia professional racing. I also have GT legends so i am planning to try that historic mod for rfactor that requires gt legends disc. I got rid of my old cockpit and now my racing game enthusiasm goes toward building a new cockpit.

Cheers, I've got rFactor, but might give GT Legends a blast, it's one of those classics that people seem to really be quite enthused about

 

[TBR 427]

Luckily I don't have the uber skills you do, where you can detect everything going on in a physics engine so deeply that you know for sure just how much of an impact this is having.

I's got nothing to do with uber skills.

It's when I send a mustang sideways into the corner with the handbrake, take both hands off the wheel, about halfway through the corner make a lazy jab at opposite lock, foot flat, and it just drives off like you're a pro drifter. To bystanders it's pretty impressive, but so is a trained monkey act. Needs about the same level of involvement too, which is the problem.

Also, the FFB forces in game need to be set to negative numbers, or the effects are reversed.

God I hate that. You'd think everyone would agree which way the force feedback is supposed to work, but nooooo....