Forza 4 + Kinect! Disaster or Revolution?

[VXR]

Considering it had the dedicated processor removed, so leaches off of the 360 itself, I can't see the game not being ruined whilst Kinect is running. Lower LoDs, maybe the physics engine will be toned down or it'll run at 30fps instead of 60. Bad things for the sake of a gimmick.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

Using Kinect for stuff like head tracking will likely to run into the 512mb ram limit. There is only so much you can do with 512mb of ram.

 

[FyreandIce]

Kinect is nothing more than more disaster for this franchise. FM3 was a quantum step backwards, removing feature after feature that had to do with racing so they could add stuff like video leaderboards, badly done cockpit views and a storefront.

Those that believe it won't affect the game when, not if, they add this kinect junk are fooling themselves. It won't be the kinect driving that kills it in itself. But the fact that so much disk space will be eaten up so you can walk around your car and open doors that sacrifices to other things will have to be made. And you can bet they won't be cutting any painting or economy related features to make kinect work. So, it'll be yet more stuff that racers want taken out.

I have to agree. They do spend too much time adding worthless crap and removing key features.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Considering it had the dedicated processor removed, so leaches off of the 360 itself, I can't see the game not being ruined whilst Kinect is running. Lower LoDs, maybe the physics engine will be toned down or it'll run at 30fps instead of 60. Bad things for the sake of a gimmick.

The good news is, not only is Kinect optional, but when it's used, it uses less than 1% of the processor resources.

 

[ibuycheap]

Using Kinect for stuff like head tracking will likely to run into the 512mb ram limit. There is only so much you can do with 512mb of ram.

Yah, and that's why head tracking already works in live videos...

You seem to lack any concept of how kinect works. Just because the ps3 couldn't do it full time with a 2d camera doesn't mean it's impossible with the kinect and its 3d dot camera.

(btw to the above poster its <10% not 1% of cpu)

 

[Bogie 19th]

btw, to above poster, it's less than 1% of cpu, not 10%.

Kinect uses "less than one per cent" of the Xbox 360's CPU power, Ubisoft's internal "Kinect expert" Frederic Blais has told Xbox World 360 magazine.

When quizzed on recent rumours that Kinect uses as much as one entire CPU core to run, Blais said: "That's not true at all. I don't really know how much I can talk about it but it's less than 1% [of the CPU's power], or something like that."

Blais claimed Kinect's CPU usage is so low "we could apply Kinect to an action game and still put the same kind of action on screen".

According to the Ubisoft man, triple-A Kinect first-person shooters that use both camera and controller are possible, but we're certainly not seeing any in Microsoft's line-up at the moment.
_______
source: CVG

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=258340

I wish people would research before they post.

 

[TRC GeorgiaDawg]

btw, to above poster, it's less than 1% of cpu, not 10%.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=258340

I wish people would research before they post.

I'm sure that's all true. Kinect by itself probably doesn't take much to run. The problem is, T10 won't be content to just implement a control scheme around Kinect. They're about flash and style over substance. They've already confirmed that the opening doors and looking in the engine stuff is going to be there in their recently released trailer. That was about the only in game footage in the entire trailer anyways, rest was stolen live footage..lol.

So, adding all this walking around and looking inside the doors and engines and whatnot is going to require MASSIVE amounts of game disk space. Not to mention they won't stop at just that and I'm sure there will just have to be a ability to paint the doorjams and the underside of the hood. That's thousands of more paint layers.

Kinect will destroy what little is left of the Motorsport in Forza. But it'll be the prettiest, cutest, car themed painting game ever.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

Yah, and that's why head tracking already works in live videos...

You seem to lack any concept of how kinect works. Just because the ps3 couldn't do it full time with a 2d camera doesn't mean it's impossible with the kinect and its 3d dot camera.

(btw to the above poster its <10% not 1% of cpu)

Who said PS3 can't do head tracking? I think it does it very well. Even TrackIR requires some ram on the PC.

*******
As far as CPU usages this shouldn't be a problem with either HD console. Both HD consoles are not limited that much by their CPU. Even most recent PC games barely uses more than 2 cores. It's their ram limit and GPU which starting to show it's age.

 

[VXR]

Fair enough Bogie; I've not read much about Kinect and read a figure of up to 15% the last time I saw it mentioned.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

T10 has always listened to the community so they will not force anyone to get kinect just for a few features. They have already confirmed that the kinect features can also be controlled with the controller or wheel. Imagine if we could move the vinyls around with Kinect. That would be great but I still have no interrest in Kinect at all. So for those worried that they need Kinect to play F4, you have nothing to worry about.

 

[Randum311]

interesting topic. after finally using the kinect, I can't really see it working in a racing game in any one way that will make it a "must have" accessory for your Forza gamer. Head tracking, which I don't even currently use in GT5, MAYBE some had motions for on the fly car adjustments??? Im not sure if I could use the "air wheel" for anything BUT a mini game.

The Kinect is great, but I feel like it won't have much impact on a racing sim.

 

[Timppaq]

Loving the kinetic and the way it will cause your shoulders to die. 👍

 

[-=DV=-]

Kinect will bring head tracking, and some cool showroom features. nothing more. the t10 team are all motorsport enthusiasts and avid simmers. They are already at war with microsoft trying to make a realistic title with MS pushing all of the "acessibility" crap onto them. I would love to see them leave MS and be poached by PD.

 

[BigYoSpeck]

Laggy gesture based fad input device integrated with the formats premier car sim? The whole thing smacks of pressure on T10 from above to include the "feature".

Absolutely useless as a control method for driving other than the 10 minute novelty factor. As for head tracking, unless they get the input lag down hugely what use is for for quick looks at high speed when you're flying round a track with cars all round you?

Those cpu cycles are also going to be stolen from the physics and AI engines, which remember the 360 doesn't have as powerful a cpu as the PS3 so really doesn't have to spare if it's going to compete with GT5.

 

[Sidstyler]

Ambulance arrives at your house after neighbours call 911 mistaking your game face and spastic movements as a seizure.

 

[BigYoSpeck]

Ambulance arrives at your house after neighbours call 911 mistaking your game face and spastic movements as a seizure.

Are we still talking about kinect or are you just looking at my avatar?

I think kinect is a great concept, and certain games will work on it this generation, but the tech is far from there for any game involving reaction times and precision.

 

[ShaggySoCal]

Still trying to wrap my head around the whole head tracking thing. When I've used the right thumb stick to say look right, the game rotates the camera and brings what's to my right to the center.
Switch to Kinect. I turn my head to the right and what happens? If it does exactly what the thumb stick does, then what's to my right is now in the center while my head is pointed away from center.
IMO, head tracking like would work best if the display was on a set of HD glasses.

Obviously the walk around stuff we've already seen seems pretty cool. How about Kinect-isizing the upgrade shop.

So you're walking around your car and decide to change the rims. With a wave of your left hand, you bring up your upgrade categories and select rims. As you use your right hand to side scroll through the different rims, you find the ones you want.
Using your right hand you'll drag and drop them onto your car see what they look like.
Kinda like what you see Tom Cruise do in Minority Report or Robert Downey Jr. in Iron Man.

I wonder if Turn 10 would also do their own version of PGR4's garage?

IMO, anything you do IN the car should use a controller. Everything you do OUT of the car could be done with Kinect or the controller.

 

[RC45]

Still trying to wrap my head around the whole head tracking thing. When I've used the right thumb stick to say look right, the game rotates the camera and brings what's to my right to the center.
Switch to Kinect. I turn my head to the right and what happens? If it does exactly what the thumb stick does, then what's to my right is now in the center while my head is pointed away from center.
IMO, head tracking like would work best if the display was on a set of HD glasses.

Head tracking relies on tiny movements of your head to translate into big movement in game.

Using headtracking in rFactor and GTL I slightly move my head to the right, not even enough to cause my eyes to lose focus ont he center of the screen, in game I have glance well to the right and I am ablt to see the right hand wing mirror, the guy creeping up on my right trying to take the inside line and I can see up into the corner.

Once you use head tracking with a proper system, you cannot imagine not driving with it.

 

[VXR]

Hmm, I'm not entirely sure what features will severely limit people from racing in this game, apart from on a LAN or the pit set-up.

So you can't set custom public lobbies, but that way you won't get idiots entering your games and driving in a completely inappropriate manner as they did in FM2 or on this game's hoppers.

So what if Forza's found its niche with creative people? I'm far happier as a creative person playing with cars of my own design and taking pictures than I would now be with something limited to racing only.

If you're so hardcore, there's sims that cater more for you.

 

[ShylockHolmes]

Laggy gesture based fad input device integrated with the formats premier car sim? The whole thing smacks of pressure on T10 from above to include the "feature".

Absolutely useless as a control method for driving other than the 10 minute novelty factor. As for head tracking, unless they get the input lag down hugely what use is for for quick looks at high speed when you're flying round a track with cars all round you?

Those cpu cycles are also going to be stolen from the physics and AI engines, which remember the 360 doesn't have as powerful a cpu as the PS3 so really doesn't have to spare if it's going to compete with GT5.

Either you don't have Kinect or you don't know how to calibrate it. Not one person who has played on mine has even mentioned "lag", of course I know how to calibrate it properly. And even the headtracking in GT5 works on the simple PS3 eye so I have no idea where you're coming from?

 

[Parker]

Either you don't have Kinect or you don't know how to calibrate it. Not one person who has played on mine has even mentioned "lag", of course I know how to calibrate it properly. And even the headtracking in GT5 works on the simple PS3 eye so I have no idea where you're coming from?

I've noticed quite a bit of lag on some Kinect games. It varies from game to game, but it sems like the more "serious" Kinect games have far less lag than the "shovelware" games.

 

[Dopplegagger]

Still trying to wrap my head around the whole head tracking thing. When I've used the right thumb stick to say look right, the game rotates the camera and brings what's to my right to the center.
Switch to Kinect. I turn my head to the right and what happens? If it does exactly what the thumb stick does, then what's to my right is now in the center while my head is pointed away from center.
IMO, head tracking like would work best if the display was on a set of HD glasses.

Obviously the walk around stuff we've already seen seems pretty cool. How about Kinect-isizing the upgrade shop.

So you're walking around your car and decide to change the rims. With a wave of your left hand, you bring up your upgrade categories and select rims. As you use your right hand to side scroll through the different rims, you find the ones you want.
Using your right hand you'll drag and drop them onto your car see what they look like.
Kinda like what you see Tom Cruise do in Minority Report or Robert Downey Jr. in Iron Man.

I wonder if Turn 10 would also do their own version of PGR4's garage?

IMO, anything you do IN the car should use a controller. Everything you do OUT of the car could be done with Kinect or the controller.

All of the walking around the car stuff shown at E3 could be done with the controller too. Not saying that it isn't a nice thing to use Kinect for, some may find that feature to be a nice touch but, it is achievable with the controller.

I still feel that Turn 10 would be better off not putting the time and effort into adding Kinect functionality to Forza because everything on track really doesnt require motion controls. They can probably make the game have modes where you use kinect to drive the cars in various challenges, but that is far removed from simulation and more of an arcade game (loose translation of simulation applied).
Still Microsoft made the call to push Kinect and Forza 4 will have complete Kinect functionality... I just hope it is seperate from the racing game I got to like over the past 6 years.

 

[Bonefork]

I don't have one and don't want one, but I could see head-tracking, voice commands for adjusting driver assists, driver face recognition for endurance driver swaps, wheel/pedal control simulation (Burnout, a faster and twitchier game, has already done it successfully), and probably menu navigation. There's no technical reason you couldn't play the entire game with Kinect if that was your preference.

And you don't need to use a pretend steering wheel, you could use anything round and it would work fine, even if it was attached to something in front of you. I don't care for Kinect or motion gaming either but some of you sound like fanboys talking about the things it "can't do" or how stupid it would be to play with it. Millions bought Mario Kart and the Wii Wheel, so I guess not everyone is a pretentious simulation nerd.

And "making the game worse?" If they sell more copies of the game, or more copies of Kinect, then the studio gets more money and that means more development time, additional staff, and more licensing. I take it you guys aren't business people? How do you think the game will get better in time if the studio is constantly narrowing their market to simulation racers and losing customers?

 

[t.o.]

I don't have one and don't want one, but I could see head-tracking, voice commands for adjusting driver assists, driver face recognition for endurance driver swaps, wheel/pedal control simulation (Burnout, a faster and twitchier game, has already done it successfully), and probably menu navigation. There's no technical reason you couldn't play the entire game with Kinect if that was your preference.

And you don't need to use a pretend steering wheel, you could use anything round and it would work fine, even if it was attached to something in front of you. I don't care for Kinect or motion gaming either but some of you sound like fanboys talking about the things it "can't do" or how stupid it would be to play with it. Millions bought Mario Kart and the Wii Wheel, so I guess not everyone is a pretentious simulation nerd.

And "making the game worse?" If they sell more copies of the game, or more copies of Kinect, then the studio gets more money and that means more development time, additional staff, and more licensing. I take it you guys aren't business people? How do you think the game will get better in time if the studio is constantly narrowing their market to simulation racers and losing customers?

QUOOOTE OF THE CENNTURYYYYY!
As long as there is a "switch" to put the game back to the "sim" heads Forza 4 can come out the box anything it wants to be. Personally I could care less if the front cover had a split picture with a gritty race track and racing gloves on one side and the other side a picture of a 3 years old birthday party with a clown and the kid making a driving motion with the words "VROOM VROOM" in a cartoon caption as long as we're able to hit a couple of adjustments , or just hit a profile "HARDCORE" and the game has nothing but sim elements.

I too will not be getting Kinect or rather don't see it planned for the future but I could see more than headtracking in it's use and waving hands in the air pretend driving. If Turn10 REALLY wanted to get hardcore about it we could have a number of things pop up on screen that a real driver would have to contend with. When I look at pictures of cockpits in the game and real life there sure are alot of buttons in there. How come in either game we never seem to have a use for any of them. Everything I guess works fine where we don't need them switches and buttons. But imagine if Turn10 decide to give it to you hardcore and simulate all those buttons and switches on screen for you to interact with and make real time decisions about your car.

 

[Meerly a cat]

Well being forced into this big rant. Stupid forum.

Anyone think it will be hard to race with kinect on forza 4?

 

[Bonefork]

Well being forced into this big rant. Stupid forum.

Anyone think it will be hard to race with kinect on forza 4?

I'm only replying cause I saw your locked thread and had a laugh at this post.

I would honestly guess "no." I played Mario Kart and Excite Truck with the Wiimote and while at first it seemed impossible, after a while it became second nature.

Thing is, the analog stick is an extremely simple and twitchy input mechanism, and racing games do a lot of guess work when user input is received and adjust it to make the ride smoother, so a Wiimote or Kinect is no different once you learn the muscle motions and have some practice (assuming the Kinect works as advertised).

 

[t.o.]

Well being forced into this big rant. Stupid forum.

Anyone think it will be hard to race with kinect on forza 4?

 

[Biobunny]

Try using your iDevice as a (fake controller), then load up some YouTube GT5 race and try replicating it (so when the car breaks hit where square is suppose to be on your screen). See what I mean? It's hard, uncomfortable, and simply makes things worse. Now imagine if your suppose to steer using that device as a wheel. Now the Kinect idea is even worse as you don't even get to hold something. Also on other motion sensor racers you don't have that motion sensor thing attaching to something ,which makes it even more terrible.

 

[phil-t]

It doesn't bother me in the slightest

Based on my own common sense
1. If you don't use Kinect, it doesn't need to consume reasources, so it shouldn't have any impact.
2. Any modes that you can and do use Kinect, aren't going to be anything you'd care about it's impact, e.g. car showroom/exploration/arcade party game
3. Head tracking could be done using the 2D Camera ala GT5 which would just use normal facial recognition and isn't going to really use up any appreciable resource
4. As already mentioned, Kinect libraries are already written, T10 just need to map whatever input control they want, it's not as simple as a controller, but it's not exactly rocket science either, just simple hand gestures, and moving the view point according to your physical 3d coordinates.
5.T10 have expanded, any business need for kinect has clearly been resource planmned accordingly.. Had Kinect not been required, I'm sure they'd not have added more staff, so I see no reason to see it as largely 'cost neutral'..
6. In terms of control, T10 use 'layered' assists, and despite whether we obviously think they need to go more hardcore, kinect has no reason to have any effect on this, it's just some more 'layers' that can be switched on (or off) surely?

I'm just happy that at least T10 have taken on more resource to implement a lot of new stuff, which means it's far less likely we'll gain rather then lose from anything kinect inspired, and that kinect is optional, so we can ignore it as an end user..

 

[IceMan PJN]

Forza 4 + Kinect! Disaster or Revolution?

Neither. It isn't a disaster since it won't be a bad thing. I don't expect to get Kinect but expect to enjoy FM4 just the same as the previous ones and plan on using my Microsoft wheel (not the greatest, but it works okay). I can't vote for "revolution" without having actually tried out the game to see how well (or poorly) all this is implemented, but I suspect it will be more gimmick than revolution. I suppose it's nice to have options for how you play the game, but I don't see playing via Kinect being easier or superior to doing it with my wheel and probably not even better than doing it with the controller.