Forza Horizon 4 Season Change: Springtime Gold Rush

[UKMikey]

Personally I haven't seriously played FH4 in about a year as it really doesn't hold my interest anymore (you can read my primary complaints here), however the way they've gone about adding FREE cars is not one of them, the only change I would make to that process is making a way to obtain the cars once their introductory period is over.

It doesn't look like the community were overly defensive towards your complaints or the others in that thread. In fact it looks like they embraced them, judging by the number of likes you received.

People (well, one or two people really) are way too sensitive when their fringe nitpicky whines are treated with the contempt they so richly deserve. Objective, constructive criticism intended to make the game better tends to be accepted a lot better than folks just turning up to hate on the game for the sake of it.

 

[Nielsen]

But it doesn’t make Forza any worse, it actually does absolutely nothing to Forza, to have an opinion that differs from someone else. It literally has ZERO affect on Forza.

Perhaps you and a few other individuals should keep that in mind the next time you feel the need to point out some "odd" viewpoint you don't agree with? Very strange you suddenly decide to argue along those lines when you're one of the people here who clearly has problem with criticism lacking that sugar-coat I mentioned to begin with.

Poor us for not getting a free new car handed to us this time, we’re all absolutely devastated.

And what does this have to do with what I said? I have not mentioned anything about free cars. Several cars are added free of charge every month, so what are you on about?

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

And what does this have to do with what I said?

You're defending the guy, who has criticisms that boil down to just having to win a couple of races in order to have a dlc car.

 

[Nielsen]

You're defending the guy, who has criticisms that boil down to just having to win a couple of races in order to have a dlc car.

I'm not defending any of the DLC-related complaints in here. I solely agreed with the fact that the community is too defensive of Forza-related issues in general. I have already pointed this out.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

I'm not defending any of the DLC-related complaints in here.

I dunno man. I've seen you always happen to post just when others respond to certain complaints around here (which once again tend to be the same, tired complaints).

I solely agreed with the fact that the community is too defensive of Forza-related issues in general.

In what way? What Forza issues have the community gotten overly defensive over? Because all I've seen is the same people making the same complaints, as said above.

 

[ImaRobot]

Perhaps you and a few other individuals should keep that in mind the next time you feel the need to point out some "odd" viewpoint you don't agree with? Very strange you suddenly decide to argue along those lines when you're one of the people here who clearly has problem with criticism lacking that sugar-coat I mentioned to begin with.

Nah, I’ll respond to what I want with what I want to. I’ll agree or disagree. I’ll make my pleasure known as well as my disdain. Just like you, who comes in to complaint about a comment about someone’s comment. I have no problem with criticism, I’m not even actually fond of Forza and haven’t been for a while, so again if it makes you feel better to have a pretend-situation in your head, then go for it. It doesn’t bother me any, but it definitely seems to bother you.

And what does this have to do with what I said? I have not mentioned anything about free cars. Several cars are added free of charge every month, so what are you on about?

it doesn’t. It has to do with the comment that was made that actually started this chain reaction. Try not to be so oblivious.

 

[Nielsen]

I dunno man. I've seen you always happen to post just when others respond to certain complaints around here (which once again tend to be the same, tired complaints).

I post all the time. If anything, I'm a big fan of the free DLC we have been getting for FH4.

In what way? What Forza issues have the community gotten overly defensive over? Because all I've seen is the same people making the same complaints, as said above.

Numerous examples over the years, and I fortunately don't remember all the the specifics. Anyway, a few weeks ago I felt like posting a rant over that Welcome Pack nonsense, but I didn't bother because it would only bring out all the apologists once more, resulting in a big derailment.

I'm not saying the Welcome Pack received universal praise here either, but even the most subtle criticism toward it was fended off with defensive crap like "there are unique parts on these cars, so..." I'm sure there are, but Playground Games shouldn't attempt to sell garbage like that, because unfortunately there are people guaranteed to buy it. I'd much rather support the genuinely new DLC with money, but getting it for free is certainly not something you'll ever see me complain about.

Nah, I’ll respond to what I want with what I want to. I’ll agree or disagree. I’ll make my pleasure known as well as my disdain. Just like you, who comes in to complaint about a comment about someone’s comment. I have no problem with criticism, I’m not even actually fond of Forza and haven’t been for a while, so again if it makes you feel better to have a pretend-situation in your head, then go for it. It doesn’t bother me any, but it definitely seems to bother you.

Those odd things you repeatedly feel like pointing out as odd, to use your own words, always revolve around brutally honest criticism. And you don't have a problem with it, you say?

it doesn’t. It has to do with the comment that was made that actually started this chain reaction. Try not to be so oblivious.

Which (DLC) has nothing to do with what I said initially.

 

[ImaRobot]

Those odd things you repeatedly feel like pointing out as odd, to use your own words, always revolve around brutally honest criticism. And you don't have a problem with it, you say?

Nope. Usually it is mostly against brutally stupid criticism. There’s a lot of that going around too.

Which (DLC) has nothing to do with what I said initially.

so? It actually has to do with what’s going on, the sentiments that you’re defending, even though you’re pretending you’re not. If you are in defense of him then you are in defense of the opinion.

 

[Nielsen]

Nope. Usually it is mostly against brutally stupid criticism. There’s a lot of that going around too.

Sigh.

so? It actually has to do with what’s going on, the sentiments that you’re defending, even though you’re pretending you’re not. If you are in defense of him then you are in defense of the opinion.

I merely agreed with the comment that the community is too defensive in general. Doesn't automatically mean that I agree with the complaint at hand, because I don't.

 

[ImaRobot]

Sigh.



I merely agreed with the comment that the community is too defensive in general. Doesn't automatically mean that I agree with the complaint at hand, because I don't.

Yes... who else’ opinion would it be, considering I’m the one writing it?

If you don’t agree with what’s being talked about and you’re not talking about it yourself, then just stop talking about it. Makes absolutely no sense to go on defending someone but not actually agreeing with their opinion.

 

[Nielsen]

Yes... who else’ opinion would it be, considering I’m the one writing it?

No idea what you’re referring to here.

Edit: Ok you’re probably referring to the poorly edited post with overlapping quote frames I accidentally published at first...

Brutally stupid criticism in your opinion, yes. Who are you to say what’s stupid, especially when you don’t even enjoy the game very much yourself? People purchased the game and have a right to complain about things that bother them. Having someone chime in to point out that their criticism is stupid is just an insult that achieves nothing for the greater good of everything Forza. Fair enough if you disagree, but this “odd things get pointed out as odd” is a tiresome and bad habit around here, which gives the impression of people being apologists for the sake if it.

If you don’t agree with what’s being talked about and you’re not talking about it yourself, then just stop talking about it. Makes absolutely no sense to go on defending someone but not actually agreeing with their opinion.

It’s the opposite. Agreed with one sentence but didn’t defend his opinion at all.

 

[ImaRobot]

Brutally stupid criticism in your opinion, yes. Who are you to say what’s stupid, especially when you don’t even enjoy the game very much yourself?

Anyone can form any opinion about anything they want. They don’t need permission from you, or anyone else, to do so.

People purchased the game and have a right to complain about things that bother them. Having someone chime in to point out that their criticism is stupid is just an insult that achieves nothing for the greater good of everything Forza.

They sure do, and not one single soul here has said otherwise. However, when one is going to say that minimal task that equate roughly to 2 hours worth of playing a game over the span of a week as a very hard task, as well as a “grind” solely because it’s not a shiny new FREE dlc vehicle then people are going to call it out. It’s not hard, nor is it a grind. So yeah, odd things are going to get called odd. I didn’t say their criticism was stupid, that was in reply to you saying I only chime in when it’s not sugar coated. If there is something that is stupid though, it was that comment.

None of what that person said is going to do anything for the greater Of Forza - how exactly is saying it’s hard and it’s a grind constructive criticism? Not only that, but when it was pointed out that it’s not exactly hard in the first place, he back tracked and moved the goal posts saying it’s a grind. How is it a grind? Do you play less than two hours in a whole week? If so I can understand that, but I would imagine that the vast majority of us do more than that in a single day, let alone a week.

Fair enough if you disagree, but this “odd things get pointed out as odd” is a tiresome and bad habit around here, which gives the impression of people being apologists for the sake if it.

I really couldn’t care less what you feel about it, to be honest. I’m not seeking approval for my posts here, and quite frankly if you don’t want to see what I post than I suggest you ignore me. There’s no nicer way to put that.

It’s the opposite. Agreed with one sentence but didn’t defend his opinion at all.

If you are in defense of something than you are also supporting their ideals whether directly or indirectly.

 

[gnomefromnome]

...seriously. Play the game, or don't

 

[Nielsen]

Anyone can form any opinion about anything they want. They don’t need permission from you, or anyone else, to do so.

Absolutely, but it doesn’t mean one cannot question the incentive in constantly calling things out, when that‘s seemingly all some of you guys do at this point.

They sure do, and not one single soul here has said otherwise. However, when one is going to say that minimal task that equate roughly to 2 hours worth of playing a game over the span of a week as a very hard task, as well as a “grind” solely because it’s not a shiny new FREE dlc vehicle then people are going to call it out. It’s not hard, nor is it a grind. So yeah, odd things are going to get called odd.

None of what that person said is going to do anything for the greater Of Forza - how exactly is saying it’s hard and it’s a grind constructive criticism? Not only that, but when it was pointed out that it’s not exactly hard in the first place, he back tracked and moved the goal posts saying it’s a grind. How is it a grind? Do you play less than two hours in a whole week? If so I can understand that, but I would imagine that the vast majority of us do more than that in a single day, let alone a week.

Why the need to divert attention to how “oddly” a complaint is brought forward when the overarching point is abundantly clear? This precisely exemplifies how criticism here tends to get overshadowed by trivial nit-picking - whenever someone doesn’t complain in accordance with the ideals.

I didn’t say their criticism was stupid, that was in reply to you saying I only chime in when it’s not sugar coated. If there is something that is stupid though, it was that comment.

Not that I expected you to acknowledge it anyway.

I really couldn’t care less what you feel about it, to be honest. I’m not seeking approval for my posts here, and quite frankly if you don’t want to see what I post than I suggest you ignore me. There’s no nicer way to put that.

I simply tried to inspire a more open-minded attitude toward criticism. But if you don’t care, then there’s nothing more to say really.

If you are in defense of something than you are also supporting their ideals whether directly or indirectly.

Again, I didn’t defend the viewpoint behind the complaint in question. I never disagreed that it’s fine to do a little workout for free content, but if someone says otherwise in some quirky manner, then I see no reason to obscure their actual point with pettiness. Because those who don’t like how the DLC is distributed have a legitimate point. Not hard to recognize despite disagreeing with it in a number of ways.

...seriously. Play the game, or don't

Aaand here we go again...

 

[ImaRobot]

Absolutely, but it doesn’t mean one cannot question the incentive in constantly calling things out, when that‘s seemingly all some of you guys do at this point.

Cool, never said you couldn’t. Fire away, no skin off my back considering it’s all pretty trivial anyways and has no affect one me. In fact, I expect it - it’s a forum on the internet and everything you see is open to discussion whenever you feel like it. Good or bad.

Why the need to divert attention to how “oddly” a complaint is brought forward when the overarching point is abundantly clear? This precisely exemplifies how criticism here tends to get overshadowed by trivial nit-picking - whenever someone doesn’t complain in accordance with the ideals.

It wasn’t criticism. It didn’t even have a body of text, it was whining. In accordance with their ideals? hilarious, really. Sounds like you’re looking for approval of your own ideals. Ironic though, the mentioning of trivial nit picking. Hi there, kettle.

Not that I expected you to acknowledge it anyway.

Funny considering I did acknowledge everything you’ve said, I just don’t agree, and when you essentially just want to hush my post I’m going to be extremely blunt about it.

I simply tried to inspire a more open-minded attitude toward criticism. But if you don’t care, then there’s nothing more to say really.

I’m open to criticism, when it’s actually not just spewed nonsense. It’s not hard, it’s not a grind, and it’s essentially bowling down to not getting a free new to the game car. Just cus a some of my 12,000 post don’t fall exactly in line with your guidelines doesn’t mean I’m not.

If you want to keep your shutters on and ignore it in order to prove a point than I don’t know what to tell you.

Again, I didn’t defend the viewpoint behind the complaint in question.

It’s literally what you’re doing. You called me out because I said the persons view point is odd. You’re literally defending it whether you think so or not. Directly, or indirectly, through your actions thereafter.

pettiness

Ironic.

Because those who don’t like how the DLC is distributed have a legitimate point. Not hard to recognize despite disagreeing with it in a number of ways.

They sure do, but please point out where I disagreed with that? Could there be a better way? Sure. As it sits, however, it’s also extremely easy to work around that. When people can’t illustrate their point and just backtrack and keep moving goal posts each time time someone refuted it than I don’t know how you’d expect anyone to respect the opinion in the first place. Let’s not pretend that it was constructive now, others who have talked about it in detail may have had valid points but this was not the person that was doing that now was he?

 

[Nielsen]

It wasn’t criticism. It didn’t even have a body of text, it was whining. In accordance with their ideals? hilarious, really. Sounds like you’re looking for approval of your own ideals. Ironic though, the mentioning of trivial nit picking. Hi there, kettle.

There is criticism in this thread. If all you can see is whining, then I don't know what to say beyond everything I just did. "The ideals" was a reference to the so-called sugar-coat seemingly craved so much, in lack of a better word. Also worth remembering who started the nit-picking. Definitely not me.

I’m open to criticism, when it’s actually not just spewed nonsense. It’s not hard, it’s not a grind, and it’s essentially bowling down to not getting a free new to the game car. Just cus a some of my 12,000 post don’t fall exactly in line with your guidelines doesn’t mean I’m not.

If you want to keep your shutters on and ignore it in order to prove a point than I don’t know what to tell you.

The fact that you're keep wasting energy on nonsense only reinforces my point. It's like you don't even understand what the actual criticism boils down to for some people - how the DLC is distributed. Like I said, there's always something "odd" stuff that has to be picked apart, and it's evidently whenever the criticism isn't sufficiently sugar-coated for some of you guys.

It’s literally what you’re doing. You called me out because I said the persons view point is odd. You’re literally defending it whether you think so or not. Directly, or indirectly, through your actions thereafter.

Well, I don't agree with the viewpoint that you keep arguing I defend. Amazing how you insist.

Ironic.

Irony detected. And?

They sure do, but please point out where I disagreed with that? Could there be a better way? Sure. As it sits, however, it’s also extremely easy to work around that. When people can’t illustrate their point and just backtrack and keep moving goal posts each time time someone refuted it than I don’t know how you’d expect anyone to respect the opinion in the first place. Let’s not pretend that it was constructive now, others who have talked about it in detail may have had valid points but this was not the person that was doing that now was he?

I didn't necessarily say you disagree. It's rather how attention consistently gets shifted away from the actual concerns at hand by making a fuss out of trivial stuff that doesn't really make a massive difference to the validity of said criticisms.

 

[gnomefromnome]

guys take this to PMs

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

There is criticism in this thread.

Where? All I see is a couple of people whining about having to do some races just to win a car.
I don't see the validity in that.

EDIT: Okay, there was also a complaint about rehashed content, but that's really irrelevant when they're not charging money for it. If I had to pay money to get the darn cars, then I wouldn't be saying this.

 

[ImaRobot]

There is criticism in this thread. If all you can see is whining, then I don't know what to say beyond everything I just did. "The ideals" was a reference to the so-called sugar-coat seemingly craved so much, in lack of a better word. Also worth remembering who started the nit-picking. Definitely not me.

There certainly is, but the comment you took aim at, that was for a very particular post, wasn’t. It was you who started it, actually. I posted a small comment with very few words, it was you that came in to nit-pick a comment about a comment. This started with you and it’s continuing with you. I don’t care if it’s sugar-coated or not, that’s literally something you’ve made up in your head to make you feel high and mighty when someone disagrees with something you align with.

The fact that you're keep wasting energy on nonsense only reinforces my point. It's like you don't even understand what the actual criticism boils down to for some people - how the DLC is distributed. Like I said, there's always something "odd" stuff that has to be picked apart, and it's evidently whenever the criticism isn't sufficiently sugar-coated for some of you guys.

I’m not really wasting any energy. I’m giving equal responses to those who are responding to me, regardless of what it is, good or bad, agreeing or disagreeing. The criticism didn’t boil down to anything more than being upset that the player had to do “very hard tasks” and it’s “a long grind” and that it’s not even a new dlc car, just “rehashed content” from the game before, even though its new to this game. It's not hard, it's not a grind, and its a new car to the game. Poor us for not getting a brand spanking new-to-the-entire-Forza-series car every time. It’s not constructive one bit especially considering how much they’ve thrown at us over the years. If people can't illustrate their point correctly and have to resort to moving the goal posts and backtracking, than they deserve nothing more than what was posted against them. You don't have the problem because you don't do that - you actually illustrate your points.

You’re the only one wanting sugar coating, literally everything you’ve posted against is because of my extremely blunt posting style when it comes to things like this, you’re the one clamoring about being open. YOU want sugar-coating. It’s always been you, yet you’re here not-picking and pointing that lack of “sugar-coating” on others.

Well, I don't agree with the viewpoint that you keep arguing I defend. Amazing how you insist.

You literally defended it and continue to do so. Your whole tirade was in defense to it even if you say you aren’t. Your actions are proving otherwise.

I didn't necessarily say you disagree. It's rather how attention consistently gets shifted away from the actual concerns at hand by making a fuss out of trivial stuff that doesn't really make a massive difference to the validity of said criticisms.

Ironic than that you’re doing exactly that. You keep responding, shifting the attention more and more away from it by covering it up with incessant nit-picking because you don't like the way people post. Stop trying to be so controlling.

 

[Nielsen]

Where? All I see is a couple of people whining about having to do some races just to win a car.
I don't see the validity in that.

EDIT: Okay, there was also a complaint about rehashed content, but that's really irrelevant when they're not charging money for it. If I had to pay money to get the darn cars, then I wouldn't be saying this.

Whining is typically the term apologists use to show their disregard for criticism. Your attitude toward it summarizes my whole point really. Just saying, not to put a label on anyone.

There certainly is, but the comment you took aim at, that was for a very particular post, wasn’t. It was you who started it, actually. I posted a small comment with very few words, it was you that came in to nit-pick a comment about a comment. This started with you and it’s continuing with you. I don’t care if it’s sugar-coated or not, that’s literally something you’ve made up in your head to make you feel high and mighty when someone disagrees with something you align with.

Different to how I see it. And you’re wrong if you think this discussion makes me feel high and mighty. It makes me quite annoyed and tired, but it had to be said.

I’m not really wasting any energy. I’m giving equal responses to those who are responding to me, regardless of what it is, good or bad, agreeing or disagreeing. The criticism didn’t boil down to anything more than being upset that the player had to do “very hard tasks” and it’s “a long grind” and that it’s not even a new dlc car, just “rehashed content” from the game before, even though its new to this game. It's not hard, it's not a grind, and its a new car to the game. Poor us for not getting a brand spanking new-to-the-entire-Forza-series car every time. It’s not constructive one bit especially considering how much they’ve thrown at us over the years. If people can't illustrate their point correctly and have to resort to moving the goal posts and backtracking, than they deserve nothing more than what was posted against them. You don't have the problem because you don't do that - you actually illustrate your points.

And once again you bring up the trivial aspects of how the actual point of criticism was brought forward, blurring the inherent concern behind the complaints. Again, you’re not the only person here doing it. It’s almost like a culture where people cannot complain freely, giving this impression of a defensive apologist mentality, as HyperSpeeder pointed out (the only thing he said I agree with).

You’re the only one wanting sugar coating, literally everything you’ve posted against is because of my extremely blunt posting style when it comes to things like this, you’re the one clamoring about being open. YOU want sugar-coating. It’s always been you, yet you’re here not-picking and pointing that lack of “sugar-coating” on others.

I couldn’t care less how blunt it gets as long as it isn’t outright offensive. The issue I see is how the nit-picking always leads to some of sort derailment where the point gets burried in a fuss. I know I’m not helping things arguing about it, but again, I think had to be said. Not to moderate, which I have no right to, but to inspire a more tolerant attitude toward complaints.

You literally defended it and continue to do so. Your whole tirade was in defense to it even if you say you aren’t. Your actions are proving otherwise.

You refuse to accept my repeated attempts to clarify where I stand on this. Seemingly impossible.

Again, I have nothing against the fact that FH4 utilizes “play to obtain“ for the freebies, whether new or rehashed. Gives me ongoing incentives to play a fun driving game which otherwise lacks some worthwhile long-term incentives. Doesn’t mean I disrespect those who see things differently, even if I don’t understand their viewpoints or ways of voicing their criticism. Respecting their opinion doesn’t equate to agreeing with them.

Ironic than that you’re doing exactly that. You keep responding, shifting the attention more and more away from it by covering it up with incessant nit-picking because you don't like the way people post. Stop trying to be so controlling.

The thread was doomed for derailment anyway as soon as everyone jumped at the “whiners“. How it pretty much always goes, unless people make sure to sugar-coat their complaints.

 

[ImaRobot]

Whining is typically the term apologists use to show their disregard for criticism. Your attitude toward it summarizes my whole point really. Just saying, not to put a label on anyone.



Different to how I see it. And you’re wrong if you think this discussion makes me feel high and mighty. It makes me quite annoyed and tired, but it had to be said.



And once again you bring up the trivial aspects of how the actual point of criticism was brought forward, blurring the inherent concern behind the complaints. Again, you’re not the only person here doing it. It’s almost like a culture where people cannot complain freely, giving this impression of a defensive apologist mentality, as HyperSpeeder pointed out (the only thing he said I agree with).



I couldn’t care less how blunt it gets as long as it isn’t outright offensive. The issue I see is how the nit-picking always leads to some of sort derailment where the point gets burried in a fuss. I know I’m not helping things arguing about it, but again, I think had to be said. Not to moderate, which I have no right to, but to inspire a more tolerant attitude toward complaints.



You refuse to accept my repeated attempts to clarify where I stand on this. Seemingly impossible.

Again, I have nothing against the fact that FH4 utilizes “play to obtain“ for the freebies, whether new or rehashed. Gives me ongoing incentives to play a fun driving game which otherwise lacks some worthwhile long-term incentives. Doesn’t mean I disrespect those who see things differently, even if I don’t understand their viewpoints or ways of voicing their criticism. Respecting their opinion doesn’t equate to agreeing with them.



The thread was doomed for derailment anyway as soon as everyone jumped at the “whiners“. How it pretty much always goes, unless people make sure to sugar-coat their complaints.

Lets just agree to disagree and call it a day.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

Whining is typically the term apologists use to show their disregard for criticism. Your attitude toward it summarizes my whole point really. Just saying, not to put a label on anyone.

Initially, I had things to say about your response, but I'll just take ImaRobot's advise and agree to disagree.

 

[UKMikey]

"You're all apologists for liking this game that I don't. Don't label me."