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This is the discussion thread for a recent post on GTPlanet:
This article was published by Kyle Patrick (@SlipZtrEm) on June 23rd, 2017 in the Forza Motorsport 7 category.
Forza Motorsport 7 E3 2017 Hands-On Impressions
- Thread starter GTPNewsWire
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- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
Can't say I'm not worried about the comments on the physics engine being similar. I find Forza 6 tedious when driving anything Supercar and upward - the physics are just so obsessed with oversteer.
Did you intentionally skip over my part about the 911 understeering?
I'd need to sit down with Assetto Corsa again, but the 911 exhibited some tendencies I seem to remember were shown there in things like the GT3 RS. Under steady power — but not so much that the tires lose grip — a 911 should understeer, since so much of the weight will be hanging out behind the rear wheels. It's why 911s require a slightly different approach to turns, really exaggerating the slow-in-fast-out business.
The physics do feel similar to FM6, which I expected. I certainly didn't see major changes happening. But, on first encounter, I'm optimistic that the balance towards oversteer has been minimized. To be honest, a different car selection would've helped: the truck and 911 gave little away. Something like the Ford GT or the Ferrari F12 would've helped.
Brend
Premium
- 11,771
- Scotland
- GTSophy-Lapos
- ClassicBrend
I did see that comment but the pessamist in me got worried!Did you intentionally skip over my part about the 911 understeering?
I'd need to sit down with Assetto Corsa again, but the 911 exhibited some tendencies I seem to remember were shown there in things like the GT3 RS. Under steady power — but not so much that the tires lose grip — a 911 should understeer, since so much of the weight will be hanging out behind the rear wheels. It's why 911s require a slightly different approach to turns, really exaggerating the slow-in-fast-out business.
The physics do feel similar to FM6, which I expected. I certainly didn't see major changes happening. But, on first encounter, I'm optimistic that the balance towards oversteer has been minimized. To be honest, a different car selection would've helped: the truck and 911 gave little away. Something like the Ford GT or the Ferrari F12 would've helped.
- 3,172
- Lokeren
- breyzipp
- breyzipp
I own the ultimate editions of FM5, FM6, FH2 and FH3 (all XBox One Forza games). This will be the first Forza game I will completely pass on, I'm not even interested in the standard editions.
While the competition is taking giant leaps forward with Project CARS 2 and GT:Sport there is simply not enough new stuff in Forza to warrant buying a new game. Turn 10 seems to be taking baby steps but in the wrong direction. 4K and 60 FPS is nice... if you have a great game underneath it. Spending developer resources on 300 driver suits is nice... if you have a great game underneath it. The same can be said about the mystery new career mode, the new cars and tracks or all the other things copy/pasted from FH3 like auction house, Forzathon, wide body kits, etc... it is all nice.... if you have a great game underneath it.
Sadly that great game isn't underneath it all, what you have is a broken PI system, unrealistic car classes (for example GTE, GT3, Super Trofeo, Super GT all mixed together under "modern GT racers"), arcade physics, no full dynamic time of day and weather (instead it has dynamic storms on some of the maps), no tyre strategies, no adjustable FOV or even seat, no full controller/wheel mapping, etc etc. The list of shortcomings really goes on and on.
In 2015 both Project CARS and FM6 released, I purchased both games as a car enthusiast. PCARS sure had its struggle and bad handling but the career mode and entire game felt much more realistic. FM6 on the other hand felt very polished but once you want to immerse yourself deeper into it you run against its shortcomings I listed above. Now in 2017 I have the impression PCARS2 continues on the path towards realism and seriously worked on its shortcomings (like controller handling) where FM7 continues on it's arcade-feel path (with a lot of copy/paste content from previous games) and completely ignoring its shortcomings.
For the serious racer in me who wants a realistic experience there is no question, FM7 and GT:S aren't even competition for PCARS2. PCARS 2 will hands down be the only real driving simulator (pun intended) on consoles. Assetto Corsa comes as a distant second.
I like arcade games as well though but there FM7 has no place for me, I enjoyed FH3 a lot and if in the future I'm in the mood for an arcade game I'll fire up that game, it's open world and at least doesn't pretend to be a sim. If for whatever weird reason I would be in the mood to play some FM then there is still FM 5&6 on my XBox.
But I guess the FM series have a place on the market. Kids who play Need for Speed or Forza Horizon and want something more serious might better first jump towards Forza Motorsport or Gran Turismo before going for the real sims like Project CARS or Assetto Corsa. Otherwise the step might be a bit too big, I don't know.
While the competition is taking giant leaps forward with Project CARS 2 and GT:Sport there is simply not enough new stuff in Forza to warrant buying a new game. Turn 10 seems to be taking baby steps but in the wrong direction. 4K and 60 FPS is nice... if you have a great game underneath it. Spending developer resources on 300 driver suits is nice... if you have a great game underneath it. The same can be said about the mystery new career mode, the new cars and tracks or all the other things copy/pasted from FH3 like auction house, Forzathon, wide body kits, etc... it is all nice.... if you have a great game underneath it.
Sadly that great game isn't underneath it all, what you have is a broken PI system, unrealistic car classes (for example GTE, GT3, Super Trofeo, Super GT all mixed together under "modern GT racers"), arcade physics, no full dynamic time of day and weather (instead it has dynamic storms on some of the maps), no tyre strategies, no adjustable FOV or even seat, no full controller/wheel mapping, etc etc. The list of shortcomings really goes on and on.
In 2015 both Project CARS and FM6 released, I purchased both games as a car enthusiast. PCARS sure had its struggle and bad handling but the career mode and entire game felt much more realistic. FM6 on the other hand felt very polished but once you want to immerse yourself deeper into it you run against its shortcomings I listed above. Now in 2017 I have the impression PCARS2 continues on the path towards realism and seriously worked on its shortcomings (like controller handling) where FM7 continues on it's arcade-feel path (with a lot of copy/paste content from previous games) and completely ignoring its shortcomings.
For the serious racer in me who wants a realistic experience there is no question, FM7 and GT:S aren't even competition for PCARS2. PCARS 2 will hands down be the only real driving simulator (pun intended) on consoles. Assetto Corsa comes as a distant second.
I like arcade games as well though but there FM7 has no place for me, I enjoyed FH3 a lot and if in the future I'm in the mood for an arcade game I'll fire up that game, it's open world and at least doesn't pretend to be a sim. If for whatever weird reason I would be in the mood to play some FM then there is still FM 5&6 on my XBox.
But I guess the FM series have a place on the market. Kids who play Need for Speed or Forza Horizon and want something more serious might better first jump towards Forza Motorsport or Gran Turismo before going for the real sims like Project CARS or Assetto Corsa. Otherwise the step might be a bit too big, I don't know.
- 24,612
- Anoka, MN
I'm on the fence about both FM7 and PC2 at this point, neither is filling me with confidence.
I'll give you PC2 presuming they can actually pull everything off, but what major leaps is GTSport making? Because PD seems to be doing quite a few things you criticize T10 for doing in the next paragraph.
I won't argue there, but the whole idea of PI/PP systems is flawed to begin with.
At least those are more realistic (sans GT500) than a GT4 Veyron (
) or a GT3 Beetle.All those things are also seemingly issues in GT Sport.
So again, where is the giant leap PD is making?
- 1,386
- Virginia
- FordGT40Guy
- FordGTGuy
GT Sport is taking giant leaps but not in the direction you're thinking.
No proper career mode, no upgrading cars, no dynamic weather, no dynamic ToD, small car list, engine sounds are still pretty bad and so on.(Honestly the kicker for me is charging $60 for it)
Is Forza 7 making giant leaps?
Maybe? Maybe not?
It really depends on what you're interested in; is dynamic weather a leap?
Are the small touches that improve your experience like being able to choose a car and tune while loading a leap?
Is 4K native and 60 fps locked a leap?
Are all those combined a leap?
Depends on what you want.
- 14,430
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
Like mentioned by everyone, sure Pcars2 definitely looks like its taking leaps. However, GT seems to be pretty stagnant with things. They have definitely pushed those graphics, but where else? You're condemning the 4k resolution and 60fps, yet guess who else is aiming for that? It's not a hard guess so I'll let you go for it.
I for one think the underlying game is good.
This is the Forza forum, not the GTS foru... oh wait, I should have read the whole thing first. Oh wait, are you describing those leaps and bounds that GTS is making?
Now, I'm slowly getting pulled back into GTS, as more information becomes available, but literally everything you've just said is GTS as well. lol.
Pcars2 on the other hand, has the potential to be an amazing game, they look like they're actually trying to make the most difference after the cop up that came out for consoles last time. It was a horrendous mess, but I'll hold out till we can get a luanch version because I'm not going to sit through those FPS issues again, and with him seemingly putting FPS not at the forefront after the mess that was Pcars, I'm a little worried still.
It was literally it's aim to be more realistic, thats what they planned for. That is no surprise to anyone that can see what these two games are trying to do. Pcars aimed for physics and physics first, making it more of a hardcore simulator, where as FM is more of an entry level in comparison. It's simulating enough of the real world for it to be up there on the console sims though.
I'm glad that they copied and pasted a lot of the great features that where added into Horizon. How the heck is that an issue?
Yeah and that's where the differences beween the games come in, because that is literally the goal that Pcars was aiming to achieve from the get go, that wasn't what Forza was trying to do. GTS is looking very much like Pcars, but from a pure physics aspect I would imagine its right on par with Forza.
An arcade game it is not, that fits more towards games like NFS, and Burnout. I think GTS and Forza are at a nice middle ground between the hardcore, and the arcade, maybe a bit higher than the middle ground.
Kids, adults, elders, and everything in between. Its a video game, and it's not set for a special demographic. Pcars wasn't really much harder than Forza with all it's assists off to be honest. What made Pcars seem difficult was its horribly fluctuating FPS, weird slow down/speed up moments due to fluctuating fps, and the super crappy pad optimization. If it wasn't for that, its very easy to jump between either game.
- 1,386
- Virginia
- FordGT40Guy
- FordGTGuy
I never understood the immense hate that Forza and GT generate in the hardcore sim community, who do they think gets people into the genre?
People aren't jumping from NFS to PCars or iRacing but a game like Forza that can offer the assists for anyone to play but also the physics for them to get used to a more realistic feeling racing game.
- 3,172
- Lokeren
- breyzipp
- breyzipp
Well GT:Sport does bring significantly improved graphics, super premium cars, an e-Sports platform. Granted they were MILES behind everything else after GT6 so they had to take giant leaps. Granted they are taking leaps to even come on par with everyone else. Still, it does not feel to me like much is copy/pasted from GT6 so hence why I say they take giant leaps (for them, starting from GT6). Unlike FM7 which will just feel like FM5.2 (you know what FM5.1 is no doubt).
For the record I currently don't plan to buy GT:Sport either. As said above, they have way too much fantasy cars for my taste. A GT4 Veyron, a modern Mustang rallycar, all this Vision GT nonsense, way too few tracks to not get bored fast. But still, it's a completely new game compared to GT6 (albeit a little too late) so PD does get some credit in that regard.
For the record I currently don't plan to buy GT:Sport either. As said above, they have way too much fantasy cars for my taste. A GT4 Veyron, a modern Mustang rallycar, all this Vision GT nonsense, way too few tracks to not get bored fast. But still, it's a completely new game compared to GT6 (albeit a little too late) so PD does get some credit in that regard.
- 1,078
- Near Nürburgring
- DanPrez
So... who won E3??
I think @breyzipp has some valid points there. If i had to choose, i would propably go with pCars 2 with its hardcore motorsport focus and great set of features. If i had to choose two games, maybe i would pick GT Sport because of the car porn sensation, serious eSport direction and that special charme Gran Turismo always had.
However. I dont have to choose. I can pick every one of the three and i will. Letting Forza 7 slip would break my heart. I always appreciated that steady flow of new content and huge list of cars and tracks. Its not a true sim, but i does a great job of delivering driving pleasure in an easy and accessible way. And yes, for someone who owns a 4K TV, there is a huge temptation to play this on the Xbox One X. It will be expensive, though... :-(
I think @breyzipp has some valid points there. If i had to choose, i would propably go with pCars 2 with its hardcore motorsport focus and great set of features. If i had to choose two games, maybe i would pick GT Sport because of the car porn sensation, serious eSport direction and that special charme Gran Turismo always had.
However. I dont have to choose. I can pick every one of the three and i will. Letting Forza 7 slip would break my heart. I always appreciated that steady flow of new content and huge list of cars and tracks. Its not a true sim, but i does a great job of delivering driving pleasure in an easy and accessible way. And yes, for someone who owns a 4K TV, there is a huge temptation to play this on the Xbox One X. It will be expensive, though... :-(
- 14,430
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
Super Premium cars has always sounded just like some name they decided to call their models. They could have coined the term last gen, it wouldn't have made a difference. The gap between the modeling of the cars in these games are getting smaller and smaller that the minor differences are so insignificant. Where GTS Shines with its models is due to it's amazing lighting. They have a lot more room for improvement considering they're coming from the last game that was on a different generation of consoles. They have a lot more room for improvement in those aspects. With that said, they still aren't taking giant leaps your saying, they're doing the exact negatives that you explained against FM.
Thats because they did a complete 180 and butchered a lot fo old aspects that people grew to love.
- 3,279
- France
My greatest concern about Forza today is also its greatest strength : they play it too safe. Disruptive innovations bring excitement, anticipation but often disappointment because the project was too ambitious (IMO : Gran Turismo 5). Forza is different, its incremental innovation guarantees a "polished game +1" but it will look a lot like the previous product.
Do they have to change everything? Clearly no they shouldn't, the base is too good. Though, I hope one day they will try something different with Forza Motorsport, this series is getting very predictable.
Do they have to change everything? Clearly no they shouldn't, the base is too good. Though, I hope one day they will try something different with Forza Motorsport, this series is getting very predictable.
- 1,386
- Virginia
- FordGT40Guy
- FordGTGuy
That's why they did Forza Horizon.
I'm not sure what is incremental innovation about Forza 6 doubling the car count, adding weather(puddles with hydroplaning for the first time ever in a sim racer); adding tons of life to the tracks with fog, blowing sand, flying helicopters and so on.
People can drone on about Forza 5 but it had sub-surface scattering, physically based material rendering, the first laser-scanned version of Nurburgring in a racing game and is also the biggest racing game to launch with a console by far.
Forza Motorsport is not the game where they are going to sacrifice resolution or performance to do something crazy, they are going to maintain their standards while improving over time and now we are finally getting dynamic weather but with the polish and performance we expect.
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- 3,172
- Lokeren
- breyzipp
- breyzipp
I got a 4K TV as well, will definitely get the X1X because I need a 4K bluray player (got a standard XBox One and PS4 Pro as well). And an old PS3 on which I used to play GT5 and GT6 for the record.
As I said, from the Forza franchise I really liked FH3 as a lighthearted game and currently I can't play that in HDR so that upgrade for it for the X1X will be nice.
I'm sold on HDR though (Horizon Zero Dawn looks great with it) but I'm not that much sold on 4K. 1080p or the what is it, 2240 upscaling from HZD? If you sit far enough from your TV you won't notice it anyway. Or maybe my TV is just that good at upscaling too.
Getting that X1X mainly for PCARS2 as my current wheel and addons is all TX-based. But I prefer console over PC.
- 1,078
- Near Nürburgring
- DanPrez
@breyzipp If that's the case, i'm sure you will buy Forza 7 at some point. I think we all love racing games and when you already got a great set up 50 bucks more for one game is not such a big deal.
Like i said, i'm glad i will be able to play them all. I will take my time between each title, but i wont be able to resist Forza 7. I know myself all too well.
4K IS a big deal though. Play some Forza 6 in 1080p, then watch Forza 7 footage on Youtube in 4K. The difference is incredible, even on a “smaller“ screen (49“ in my case)
One more thing about Forza 7: i really liked what Dannyboy said about the new career mode. Championships and customizable race lenghts sounds great to me.
Like i said, i'm glad i will be able to play them all. I will take my time between each title, but i wont be able to resist Forza 7. I know myself all too well.
4K IS a big deal though. Play some Forza 6 in 1080p, then watch Forza 7 footage on Youtube in 4K. The difference is incredible, even on a “smaller“ screen (49“ in my case)
One more thing about Forza 7: i really liked what Dannyboy said about the new career mode. Championships and customizable race lenghts sounds great to me.
- 1,386
- Virginia
- FordGT40Guy
- FordGTGuy
With Forza 7(on all platforms) we are getting:
Please, go on about how incremental it is.
- 4K native(1080p native on Xbox One), 60 fps locked(New to Forza)
- 700 cars at launch.(Most ever)
- 30+ environments at launch.(Most ever)
- dynamic lighting(New to Forza M)
- dynamic weather(New to Forza M)
- Photogrammetry(New to Forza)
- bodykits(New to Forza M)
- ForzaVista on Tracks(New to Forza)
- 300+ race gear(New to Forza)
- Tuning, car select and more in loading screens.(New to Forza)
- Hotlap in multiplayer before the race starts.(New to Forza)
- New car view closer to the dash and without the steering wheel.(New to Forza)
- reworked forced feedback.
- Support for pretty much every racing wheel on PC including PS4 wheels.(New to Forza)
- Xbox One, Xbox One X and PC crossplay and support.(New to Forza M)
Please, go on about how incremental it is.
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- 24,612
- Anoka, MN
Of that list those are the only things that would seemingly put any more stress on the system and even than T10 has said themselves that the X1X isn't being used 100%.
There's nothing wrong with how T10 does their releases, but at the same time it's a bit disappointing that they aren't trying to milk every last bit of potential out of the X1 and X1X.
- 1,386
- Virginia
- FordGT40Guy
- FordGTGuy
Except for the fact that all those features(with the exception of 4K) are going to be available on Xbox One and Xbox One S.
They are milking them for what it's worth, if you think Forza isn't using X1 to it's fullest you're kidding yourself.
Forza 7 had overhead at 4K with 4K assets, they then used that overhead to improve visuals; Forza 7 is using 100% of X1X.
People claimed 1080p 60fps locked on Forza 5 would be impossible.
People claimed 1080p 60 fps locked, with 24 cars and weather on Forza 6 would be impossible.
It's funny how things go from "impossible" to "of course it did".
- 3,279
- France
@FordGTGuy I respect your opinon but I'm not sure that you understand the concept.
- 24,612
- Anoka, MN
And? They still seemingly aren't milking the regular X1 for all it's worth.
I really don't get why you're being so confrontational about this, neither myself or @queleuleu have said it was a bad thing.
- 1,386
- Virginia
- FordGT40Guy
- FordGTGuy
And? They still seemingly aren't milking the regular X1 for all it's worth.
I really don't get why you're being so confrontational about this, neither myself or @queleuleu have said it was a bad thing.
They are using the original Xbox One for what it's worth, I'd love to see your evidence that it isn't.
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