MagpieRacer
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Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Terronium-12
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Funny thing is that the garage stuff I had heard from yourself I believe
MagpieRacer
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Yeah there was a few leaks on Reddit with images of the garage space and I had a friend on the closed testing on the game, I probably did relay a few details 😁.
Quite a lot can still change though, I think the first test was way back in 2020 and I have read occasional reports that the walk-round garage was ditched in favour of a more traditional scrolling menu. Hopefully we'll get some definitive answers next week.
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How was the gameplay? Was it better than FM7?
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These fake sponsors have been spotted in FM7's racing suits too, specifically "Prorata".
I feel that FM7 was testing grounds for customizable racing suits, first with pre-defined suits. I dunno if there would be some type of custom racing suit customization (i.e., livery editor for suits) that could appear in Motorsport.
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- FordGT40Guy
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I hope they are implementing a sponsor system that would require you to add liveries to your vehicle. I've felt that such a system would help not only expose people to the livery system but make it more relevant to the game itself. Also, a sponsor objectives system where sponsors can give you an extra payout for accomplishing certain objectives during a race.
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The mods system already kinda does what a sponsor system should do (more credits and xp for challenges). They should just rename it and expand on it (as you said, a livery system for car, crew, garage and race suit, with sponsor stickers).
They should also bring manufacturer affinity back from fm4, which they can use to lock very special editions of cars, for eg. Mclaren F1 LM or LFA nurburgring edition etc. And discounts for parts and even cars. They can implement manufacturer race suits too.
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They did also have Manufacturer Affinity in FM5 and FM6, but dropped it in FM7, it worked on a level basis (you received credits for each level). Although apart from the credits and an Achievement or two, there was no real end game to the "levelling up". If they add better end game benefits for each affinity, that would be more like the Skill Points in FH4 and FH5 where you can unlock certain cars in the Skill trees, and other benefits.
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Forza has the option to turn off liveries from showing on cars.
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Please no. Arbitrarily locked cars can be problematic for online random lobbies, and highly problematic for organized leagues. Just make the cars purchasable with credits.
The manufacturer rewards in the form of discounts, and special badges, driving suits, and other cosmetic stuff is good though. Also, while for obvious reasons the rewards have to stop coming, the levels shouldn't cap out so that way they can reflect our dedication to manufacturers.
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MagpieRacer
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There needs to be an element of reward for playing what will predominantly played by people wanting a good single player experience. Fortunately there is an easy solution which is simply to have all cars available for league/organised racing.
As for random lobbies, they should be garage based, therefore people putting the time into the game should be rewarded by being able to show off cars other people may not have. As long as everything is unlockable through gameplay and not via rubbish token/roulette/invitation only systems then I don't see an issue.
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How do you figure it will be "predominantly played by people wanting a good single player experience"?
In my opinion, people wanting to go "neener neener look what I have and you don't" instead of have fair racing aren't really the types that should be catered to in a motorsport-oriented game. Just let Horizon be the place for virtual car shows.
When randomly locked cars turn out to be leaderboard cars it creates issues both in general gameplay balances and often open hostility in lobbies, which yeah is silly behavior but it's still disruptive. I can't count how many times I've seen people wreck people and use all kinds of foul language in multiplayer lobbies because "some **** is using a leaderboard car." Granted the leaderboard cars will always be an issue for that regardless of whether they are locked, but from my experience it does up the hostility a bit when it's not something someone can just go buy for the "can't beat 'em join 'em" angle.
Obviously the solution of having cars unlocked for private lobbies would be nice, but I wouldn't expect them to figure out a system that allows that as it seems like it would be complicated, confusing for some players, and a potential problem for exploits.
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AEKara38
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I would much rather race someone who has received the "leaderboard car" as reward for doing 100 races in a particular brand of car etc. than someone who had been playing an hour and won it in a super-dooper wheelspin. And if I have put a long time into the game I don't want to win a pair of silver shorts or a poxy emote. I would prefer a car that feels like a reward or in game credits to spend on cars/upgrades of my choosing.
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Goals like that though just reward grinding and not necessarily any loyalty to a brand or organic progression for the majority of the playerbase, especially if a car is discovered to be a leaderboard car that everyone needs. I know you are just using it as an example, but a prize car after 100 races just means people do a hundred 1 lap races at the shortest track in the game to get it faster and... who really wins then?
I'd personally prefer a manufacturer affinity to actually reflect what brands a person is passionate about, rather than what they were willing to grind to win a prize car. Having a max level prize just means everyone who plays the game grinds to that level, and then everyone has every manufacturer affinity capped at 50 (or whatever) to get each exclusive car and it just feels like another check on the list rather than a reflection of your "virtual driving career" or whatever you wanna call it.
Emotes and random in-game clothes are definitely crap prizes, but if they at least had prizes that fit, like say a Corvette driver gear for driving Corvettes a certain amount, it just means you don't have to grind for it if you don't care, but the people who do want it to show off can. You can grind for one for a manufacturer you like, or if you don't care about any of them, you can drive whatever you want to drive, not what you feel obligated to drive because of a locked prize. Most adults aren't going to get excited for in-game clothing, but at least it's something to show off that reflects your interest in something without blocking off others from being on equal competitive ground or forcing them to grind to be able to compete.
In-game credits really are the best way to go overall though as it allows freedom to play as you like while still working towards a goal, since they can be earned from whatever way you want to play (making tunes/liveries and sharing them, drifting, racing online, career mode races, free play races, etc)... Which is basically what my point is, earning money to buy cars is a good enough goal, no need to lock random ones away behind grinds. Unfortunately, relying on credits also needs the game to have a carefully balanced economy and... yeah they haven't been good at that in either Forza series really.
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These rare cars can be just put on at level 10 of manufacturer affinity (idk maybe something like driving 100 mi with that manufacturer), after which you can unlock it.
Any levels above that should just be prestige levels with credit rewards.
Online should have the ability to rent such cars (as in fm7, but with atleast tuning unlocked along with paint, If not upgrades).
The problem here is that some part of the playerbase essentially wants an FM4 v2. While others want something akin to ACC/iRacing with a slightly wider scope. There are smaller groups taht want some other things but the above mentioned groups are the two biggest ones. It's basically turned into where the "game" aspect of the racing game should get priority or the "racing" aspect should be prioritized. I don't trust any gaming/sim company to be able to find that balance because it is extremely thin, if it even exists. T10 has to probably commit to one side completely, because otherwise no one will be sufficiently satisfied.
This is like my wishlist but:
FM4/7's career event variety
FM7's free play (with pc2 levels of customizability)
Gt sport/iracing rating systems
Expanded car variety (Fm7/4, Gt4/5/6 all do this well)
F1's sponsor systems along with garage/pre race gameplay
A neat and snappy menu system a la FM6 (with Fm4/6 music) with most features like auction
Expanded tuning and customization from fm7.
I'm probably forgetting some, but if they can give 70% of this wishlist, I will be satisfied (not like I have many choices for controller on pc)
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I agree, I've mentioned several times I feel like the divide in the community pulling opposite directions is a big challenge for where the series (and "simcade" or whatever you want to call it) is at right now, with some pulling for heavier multiplayer push and more GTS elements, while others want a big checklist of events to do and more single player "progression" and some wanting it to evolve into a hardcore sim and so on.
It is an incredibly hard balance for them to get right, but I feel like it's kinda logical to lean on the "racing" side of things, as, to me anyways, that covers off some of the other elements. Like a racing game with bad racing will be lame regardless of how much content/career mode/whatever it has, but a racing game with fantastic racing would help me overlook a lackluster career progression or limited content selection or whatever. Same logic applies to whatever the "core" gameplay mechanic is in any genre of game. Like a fighting game with crap controls and boring copy/paste reskinned characters with no moveset variety isn't going to be fun just because the story is 20 hours long, you unlock new reskinned characters sometimes and there are 4 different modes to play.
The racing vs gaming thing also shows up in how people view progression too though. The gaming side will often see progression as earning prizes and unlocking stuff, while the racing side will often see progression as getting faster, crashing less, earning podiums, winning multiplayer lobbies, and so on.
I think sometimes there is a lack of frame of reference (or whatever you want to call it, my brain is fried it has been a long day) when discussing this stuff too. Obviously a balance is good and there is a way to lock content that doesn't feel excessive, but it can be hard to tell just how much others are talking about... Like when someone says "make the level 50 car exclusive" then how long is that really? Everyone has different commitments and free time, so for some that might not seem excessive but others hear that and think "I won't have time for that!" But if you level up super fast, that might not really take long at all. Also I feel like people can be go to extremes, and arguing against some locked content spurs people to think you want everything unlocked and free instantly and etc.
I've helped organize a racing league for the last 12 or so years on Forza, and we have had a few hundred drivers during that time and I've seen all types, from people who play a 5 hours a day to people who do the organized racing because they only have an hour or two a week and want to make sure it's used on quality racing. It's not a fun position to be in when you are trying to organize a series for 30-40 people and you either need to tell some people they can't race because they don't have time to plow through career mode or weren't around to have earned the car needed when it was an exclusive prize, or to throw out the car entirely so no one can use it, as we have had to do a few times in FM7.
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- GBalao888
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Don't forget this for Free Play where you can hand-pick your opponents' cars and rename them, like in GT7 and Assetto Corsa.
MagpieRacer
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How do I figure that? Well, that's easy, every previous Forza Motorsport game has catered predominantly to the single player experience. Online modes exist and they may well be in depth, there may well be lots of leagues and such, but, the online player base will still be dwarfed by the single player base. So it first and foremost has to deliver a good, competent and worthwhile single player experience. If they alter how the single player campaign plays just to make things easier to access for those who want to play online, it'll kill the fun for more people.
If they absolutely have to make it so that everything is available immediately for those who will mostly play online, then the online modes need to be totally separate from the core single player experience. Instead of dumbing down the singlecplayer experience just to make it easier for online players to get what they want.
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Are there any kind of numbers that show that? While some casual players surely only fire up the game and do a career race or two here and there, I kinda doubt the numbers of active, dedicated players (who actually pre-order and buy Deluxe Editions and buy DLC and stuff that T10 would care about) are hugely far apart between single player and multiplayer, with many doing both.
I think the closest way you could figure it out would be looking at the achievement unlock rates, but any game that goes onto GamePass ends up skewing those numbers a lot as it raises the numbers for early/easy achievements and makes the late game achievements look like a very low percentage of players ever get them, when sometimes that just means those numbers reflect the actual size of the loyal/dedicated playerbase instead of the people sampling the title like a demo.
While I don't know the numbers, I do know that despite its age, lack of support, and the fact it has been delisted, the FM7 multiplayer servers are still active, admittedly at a reduced level compared to a few years ago.
I don't see how one can say that they cater predominantly to single player when multiplayer was literally the thing that the Forza Motorsport series brought to the console racing game table with FM1, where they had online clubs, online leaderboards, custom public lobbies, tune sharing, and so on that are were all key elements in the series growth and a big reason why so many people switched over from Gran Turismo. The community features have also been pushed by T10 for basically every title since, and they are frequently brought up during coverage of the game. For years since, custom public lobbies have been one of the most requested features in the community as well. In FM7 the biggest post-release development thing done in the game really was the FRR system, which is for multiplayer. It should also be telling that that FM8's beta testing was multiplayer-focused.
I also don't see how using credits to buy a car instead of doing some arbitrary task or filling up some random experience bar or whatever is "dumbing down" the game or would somehow make people have less fun... It's supposed to be the racing that is fun in a racing game, so why is it not enough to race for credits to use to buy cars?
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