Forza Motorsport to Feature Brand New Tire Model, Tire Compounds

[Wolfe]

I remain skeptical that they're actually going to start trying to compete on realism again. But I'm mostly just interested if that effort will trickle into FH5, like FH1. Both franchises are paused, right? FH5 does not really absolutely have to be as watered down as FH2-FH4, right?

Yeah, I know. Pie in the sky.

 

[TomBrady]

I remain skeptical that they're actually going to start trying to compete on realism again. But I'm mostly just interested if that effort will trickle into FH5, like FH1. Both franchises are paused, right? FH5 does not really absolutely have to be as watered down as FH2-FH4, right?

Yeah, I know. Pie in the sky.

I'm curious because I haven't finished any of them but what do you mean by watered down? Do you mean all the extra activities that 3 and 4 have? (they're really not great in my opinion. Wish there was more of a focus on racing)

 

[Wolfe]

I'm curious because I haven't finished any of them but what do you mean by watered down? Do you mean all the extra activities that 3 and 4 have? (they're really not great in my opinion. Wish there was more of a focus on racing)

To try to keep it short, what I mean is FH2, FH3, and FH4 are not what I expected to follow after FH1. More hardcore, realistic physics than anything else like it; trading both cons and pros with FM4, in my opinion. Roads that did a decent job of keeping you on your toes. I spent way more time with FH1 than most racing games I've played, often just roaming the map -- over 20,000 miles. I imagined FH would be really revolutionary.

I don't think I need to compose an argument that FH2-FH4 do not make a terribly great effort to be hardcore or realistic. I'll cite Eunos_Cosmo on the roads because he knows FH3 and FH4 far better than I do.

Mass market appeal is the name of the game. I get it. But the open-world-sim concept FH1 hinted at does not exist. It's like they cracked open a door and then shut it.

 

[traind]

Late '22 launch window? Damn. Guessing no new details to be shown at E3 besides maybe a teaser trailer (which probably won't happen, either).

Is that what Turn 10 said? Or just speculation from the article here? I thought thy were targeting late 21.

 

[MarleyMoo]

I hope the new tire physics means that FFB wheel controls are going to be competitive with gamepad controls. This is important because Forza esports currently looks ridiculous with everybody slouching over their gamepads.

 

[McLaren]

Is that what Turn 10 said? Or just speculation from the article here? I thought thy were targeting late 21.

That’s from the article but I trust Famine’s word if that’s what he wrote.

 

[sirjim73]

That’s from the article but I trust Famine’s word if that’s what he wrote.

In the Forza Monthly, they said that the next (of several) "playtests" would be over the summer and that they would come back and give feedback after that.

They didnt say anything more than that in the stream.

But that's enough to be 99.9% sure that there will be no release in 2021.

Only @Famine knows where late 2022 comes from, but I think all the previous Motorsport games have released in the Autumn window?

 

[Johnnn]

I still have serious doubts. Forza's physics have always sounded good on paper but then in reality have always been atrocious. No thanks to the poor control methods (terrible force feedback, and controllers having filtering/speed sensitivity set so high you don't have full control over the cars steering until you slow down. you tilt all the way to left or right and the cars wheel barely turns unless you're pretty much stopped. GT does this a little bit too but in Forza it's egregious)

This is why I've never been able to get into Forza Motorsport. Horizon has less of these issues so I've always enjoyed those but I could never get into forza. Frankly I find Grid Autosport far more satisfying let alone GT Sport or a real sim like Assetto Corsa or rFactor 2.

Maybe I'm missing something but the control and physics have always prevented me from enjoying the series.

I have the same feeling for Motorsport. It's playable, it's good, but it's not fun a as racer to me. Controls are too strange. Horizon is almost the same but tuning (from PG) there makes it much better to overcome it. I rather like Horizon even if it's almost the same as Motorsport.

But GT has more assists, it's much easier to drive the car there because it has stabilization all the time like Horizon. So no direct comparison.

Autosport is typical Grid with its "floaty" steering, it doesn't feel good to me. Yeah, games without helpers are much better to play. That's the problem You can have controls with baby sitter which doesn't allow you to steer or you can have great experience of steering.

I wonder if they can create more sim approach for gamepads in M8. But I don't think so, T10 feels rather now like big and slow corporation milking the brand. If you play M2 today it looks almost like the same game as M7 from many perspectives. It's a bit unbelievable they could create so good game before and can't evolve enough.

 

[Imari]

I still have serious doubts. Forza's physics have always sounded good on paper but then in reality have always been atrocious. No thanks to the poor control methods (terrible force feedback, and controllers having filtering/speed sensitivity set so high you don't have full control over the cars steering until you slow down. you tilt all the way to left or right and the cars wheel barely turns unless you're pretty much stopped. GT does this a little bit too but in Forza it's egregious)

This is why I've never been able to get into Forza Motorsport. Horizon has less of these issues so I've always enjoyed those but I could never get into forza. Frankly I find Grid Autosport far more satisfying let alone GT Sport or a real sim like Assetto Corsa or rFactor 2.

Maybe I'm missing something but the control and physics have always prevented me from enjoying the series.

The physics are fine in FM7, it's just the control methods. It took a long time for me to get my wheel FFB to the point that it felt nice and intuitive to drive. If you manage to get your wheel FFB dialled in it's about as good as it gets outside of the hardcore sim games, so it's not actually the physics that are the problem. But if the controls don't work for you then it doesn't matter how good the physics are because you can't engage with them.

The finest Ferrari in the world would be garbage to drive if you had to push the pedals with your knees and steer with your teeth. Controls matter a lot, more than most people think, but it's worth separating those from the underlying physics. The user shouldn't have to tweak these things, but it can be done with controls if you're inclined to spend the time. If the physics are bad you're sort of stuck until they release an update or a new game.

If you're on PC you can get EmuWheel which out of the box has a feel that is probably much more familiar to Gran Turismo players. Or you can try and tinker until you find the right settings, because when you get it the game is honestly really enjoyable to drive.

Mass market appeal is the name of the game. I get it. But the open-world-sim concept FH1 hinted at does not exist. It's like they cracked open a door and then shut it.

Or like you saw a hint of something that they never intended to expand upon, and then got salty when they didn't make the game you wanted. I mean, you can get open world maps for Assetto Corsa if that's what you want, but I seriously doubt that there's enough of a market out there for a AAA hardcore open world simulation racer. Horizon was never going to be what you wanted, because it was clear to most people from the word go that it was a more casual friendly version of Motorsport.

 

[Johnnn]

Can somebody compares physics in Forza with proper sims? I have a gamepad and can't compare it directly because of helpers. But it's funny a bit to me, because I don't like Motorsport but I love AMS1 or rF2. I thought it should be the opposite but Forza is nothing like normal sims from driving perspective on a gamepad.

 

[Famine]

That’s from the article but I trust Famine’s word if that’s what he wrote.

It's just my estimate - hence "seems likely".

To just develop my reasoning here, it's now increasingly looking like FM will be a Series title, not available on One - though we did think otherwise for a time. A while back Microsoft's Matt Booty said there'd be no Series exclusives for "the next year, two years"; the plan was basically to make sure everything was playable up and down the family in the initial phase.

If we take that from the time he said it, that's January 2021-January 2022, but if we take it from the time of the Series launch it's November 2021-November 2022. Taking an average of all the figures gets you to May 2022 before you see Series exclusives, so if FM is Series exclusive (well, Series AND PC, just not One) that's the earliest reasonable date.

I've also been watching the development process closely. We had that "second sprint" back in August 2019; this is apparently the T10 term for a period where ideas are drafted, tried, and either selected to continue or cut. Chris Esaki then noted the very first internal play test in December 2019, though we don't know how extensive this play test was. Then it went a bit quiet until the "in-engine" trailer in July 2020 which featured 11 seconds of on-track action, consisting of about eight cuts of the same cars (Apollo IE) going through the same corner (Corkscrew). That wasn't a lot, and it did suggest there was a long way to go yet - GT7 had more (though it seemed to be GTS with RT effects), and that's already slipped past 2021 for sure

We've had quietness again since that, until April 2021, when Esaki announced the invite-only playtest of a portion of the game. That, we now know, appears to have been a bit of multiplayer, though we don't know what cars or tracks were involved. We do know that some of the feedback (kerb smoothness) has been acted upon, and that some will be acted on (additional tyre compounds beside soft, medium, hard).

We also know another playtest is scheduled for the summer, so likely in the next three months, and that more are planned. There's no reasonable way to determine how many, but I'd guess there's no need to playtest stuff like the career mode, only the actual driving. If we assume that there's at least four play tests scheduled - we've had a tyre compound/dry surface test, but I'd imagine they'd need to test vehicle tuning, temperature (including night) effects, and weather effects - and they're at three-monthly intervals (to account for results, feedback, changes, and new build), that puts the fourth test at February 2022, so maybe a public beta by... also May 2022

As @sirjim73 notes, the last several FM games, from 3 onwards, have launched late-Q3 and Q4, from September to November - though 1 and 2 were both May of their respective years. Again, not exactly confirmed, but it seems reasonable that FM-not-8 would sit in the same slot.


That pretty much guides my estimate of late 2022. For what it's worth, that's also my estimate for GT7, so that's likely to be an absolutely cracking month-or-so for racing game fans.

 

[MrCrynox]

Can somebody compares physics in Forza with proper sims? I have a gamepad and can't compare it directly because of helpers. But it's funny a bit to me, because I don't like Motorsport but I love AMS1 or rF2. I thought it should be the opposite but Forza is nothing like normal sims from driving perspective on a gamepad.

I'm sure I read somewhere, a few months back ? that you did like playing FM7 ?

Forza is a sim it's just not to the level of those on PC.

IMO the physics are fine and it plays great with a controller, it's just rather sensitive.
Once you get your head around it and be gentle you have full control of the cars. There are only a few sims with 1 to 1 steering, (using controller), which I gather is what you like, however most people don't and have issues without any sort of assistance. It doesn't mean that those games with absolutely no assistance are superior though, just different.

 

[Johnnn]

I'm sure I read somewhere, a few months back ? that you did like playing FM7 ?

Forza is a sim it's just not to the level of those on PC.

IMO the physics are fine and it plays just fine with a controller, it's just rather sensitive, once you get your head around it and be gentle you have full control of the cars. There are only a few sims with 1 to 1 steering, (using controller), which I gather is what you like, however most don't and have issues without any sort of assistance. It doesn't mean that they are superior though, just different.

Depends. It's among the best on consoles from non-sim games from driving perspective. But currently I am hooked to sims and probably never come back to old Forza times. I have Tier 13 in Forzas so I played them a bit but it's a past to me probably. Gamepad support there is not bad but it has issues to me. But it's less assisted than GT which is very positive for people who wants better experience.

I meant with a wheel. I don't have a wheel experience. Maybe it's great on a wheel but I hardly think so.

 

[kjeldsen]

3 million updates pr second with feedback provided via the same basic controller from the 360

VS one update pr frame, feedback via state of the art haptic feedback.

Which one will provide the best driver experience?

 

[Johnnn]

3 million updates pr second with feedback provided via the same basic controller from the 360

VS one update pr frame, feedback via state of the art haptic feedback.

Which one will provide the best driver experience?

You don't need feedback at all to have great experience. I am not sure haptic one can improve it too much.

 

[PorscheHD]

They Just need to show something..... Wait without seeing progress is painfull.

Forza 7 is to old IT needs patches but its dead. Crashes on my new pc and i have no other game on pc with controller to play.....

Waiting is more easy when you what they are making. This E3 u hope?!

 

[beyond72]

I hope they spend as much time on the AI. As I gave up on the GT series due to it's weak AI and now I feel I'm gonna give up on racing games altogther if no one can lock in the difficulty across all tracks in their games.

 

[Jezza819]

Depends. It's among the best on consoles from non-sim games from driving perspective. But currently I am hooked to sims and probably never come back to old Forza times. I have Tier 13 in Forzas so I played them a bit but it's a past to me probably. Gamepad support there is not bad but it has issues to me. But it's less assisted than GT which is very positive for people who wants better experience.

I meant with a wheel. I don't have a wheel experience. Maybe it's great on a wheel but I hardly think so.

It's actually pretty good on a wheel. Not ACC level but still pretty good. I use Fanatec's suggested settings for both the wheel and in game then tweak my own FFB and DOR settings. You have to use a pretty light touch on a lot of higher powered cars or they will break loose but once you understand that the driving part of the game is good.

It's the appalling AI behavior that knocks this game down for me. But I still play it a lot because of the varied types of cars that are available.

 

[GBalao888]

They Just need to show something..... Wait without seeing progress is painfull.

Forza 7 is to old IT needs patches but its dead. Crashes on my new pc and i have no other game on pc with controller to play.....

Waiting is more easy when you what they are making. This E3 u hope?!

The new Forza Motorsport is highly unlikely to be shown off at E3. If you've seen the previous posts and the most recent Forza monthly, Chris Esaki has mentioned that the game has been going through several playtests, meaning it's not yet ready to be shown off.

 

[Silver Arrows]

3 million updates pr second with feedback provided via the same basic controller from the 360

VS one update pr frame, feedback via state of the art haptic feedback.

Which one will provide the best driver experience?

Implying that the PS5 controller isn't just the PS4 controller with some fancy tech that is going to be eliminated from the first revision to cut down on cost, lmao.

Besides, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. And Microsoft knows that considering how fantastic the original 360 controller was (and still is) and simply iterated on the formula.

 

[PorscheHD]

The new Forza Motorsport is highly unlikely to be shown off at E3. If you've seen the previous posts and the most recent Forza monthly, Chris Esaki has mentioned that the game has been going through several playtests, meaning it's not yet ready to be shown off.

Then IT Will bever be a early 22 release if they cant show now anything....

 

[Wolfe]

Or like you saw a hint of something that they never intended to expand upon, and then got salty when they didn't make the game you wanted. I mean, you can get open world maps for Assetto Corsa if that's what you want, but I seriously doubt that there's enough of a market out there for a AAA hardcore open world simulation racer. Horizon was never going to be what you wanted, because it was clear to most people from the word go that it was a more casual friendly version of Motorsport.

"Yeah, I know. Pie in the sky." "Mass market appeal is the name of the game. I get it." How many words do I need to spell out that you don't need to patronize me over this, especially while calling me salty? 👎

Mass-marketability is not a prerequisite to express an idea or wish. I have not been trolling these subforums. I remain a big fan of FH1, there are no modern games with as many Subarus as Forza titles, and now I have a gaming PC with Windows 10 -- I would think I can post about what I'd like to see without being treated this way.

 

[Imari]

"Yeah, I know. Pie in the sky." "Mass market appeal is the name of the game. I get it." How many words do I need to spell out that you don't need to patronize me over this, especially while calling me salty? 👎

Mass-marketability is not a prerequisite to express an idea or wish. I have not been trolling these subforums. I remain a big fan of FH1, there are no modern games with as many Subarus as Forza titles, and now I have a gaming PC with Windows 10 -- I would think I can post about what I'd like to see without being treated this way.

Geez, who widdled in your Cheerios this morning? It's a discussion forum, mate. If you don't want people to discuss what you say then don't post it. You're free to post what you like, just as I'm free to post a reply to what I like.

As far as "treating you this way", the worst I did is call you salty. From reading your posts including this one, I think that's a pretty fair assessment. While abuse isn't tolerated or acceptable on GTP I'm not sure that "salty" rises to the level of abuse, although feel free to take it up with the mods if you like. If you can't stomach it when someone points out your very clearly expressed emotions then you're going to have some real problems interacting with other humans.

So you've got a gaming PC, have you played the open world maps on AC? Some are better than others, but I think they could satisfy your needs.

 

[Johnnn]

Hm, today I fired up H4 to get a new car and must say it's still very good. From gamepad perspective it feels like better tuning than Motorsport. On the other hand Horizon has same controls as Gran Turismo and GT controls are popular too. I would like to have sim controls for next Motorsport and maybe something similar for H6. We will see...

 

[beyond72]

.

As a bigger fan of the FM series, seeing all the updates for H4 makes me salty!

 

[Atwork]

Physics updates and strategical elements are always nice to have, so kudos on them for going down this direction.

Hopefully it also leads to robust in-game driver education, stewarding, motivations to play well etc., basically all of the things that make GT Sport what it is; more track-based racers need to assume their players aren’t good enough to figure this all out themselves, in my opinion.

If “the pursuit of being the best racer you can be” is a core philosophy, everybody wins

What I would like to see is an in game driver/ engineer/ setup helper. Someone while you are doing laps to chime in and say how about we try this and give an explanation of what more camber is going to do. Make it immersive with suggestions or feed back, and perhaps something that helps with all the wonky force feed back. It could be something like a tool to learn, but also could make setups and wheel setup less boring/demanding. Some games you have to go in and out of game/ menu or in and out if the pits.

I know some may knock the idea of something like this, but some games I never truly got into simply because the feel of time to get the game feel right took too long. By the time I would get things the way I like then the patch came out and I would have to wait because I was a clubsport v2 base user and ther seemed to always be some in issues after patches.

If setting up the car/drive settings/ force feed back was in some ways more immersive I think it would make for a better experience.

 

[inCloud]

but I seriously doubt that there's enough of a market out there for a AAA hardcore open world simulation racer.

There is market for AAA hardcore open world simulation driving game. ETS2 sold 9 millions copies and its nowhere near as good as driving game from Microsoft with Azure(tech behind MFS) and Forzatech could be.

 

[Imari]

There is market for AAA hardcore open world simulation driving game. ETS2 sold 9 millions copies and its nowhere near as good as driving game from Microsoft with Azure(tech behind MFS) and Forzatech could be.

Comparing ETS2 to a hypothetical open world race simulator feels like comparing DCS and MS Flight Simulator. They're both flight sims but they're not even slightly the same thing and I'm not sure that there's much overlap between their target markets at all.

Also, ETS2 is nearly ten years old and is regularly on sale for less than $5. Sales numbers start to mean a lot less when a game is basically being given away over such an extended period of time. Even I have a copy of ETS2, and I've played it for like an hour and a half. It's chill and I can see why people like it, but I don't find myself itching to go back and play it. Just because I own a copy doesn't mean I'd buy an open world race sim.

 

[inCloud]

Comparing ETS2 to a hypothetical open world race simulator feels like comparing DCS and MS Flight Simulator. They're both flight sims but they're not even slightly the same thing and I'm not sure that there's much overlap between their target markets at all.

Also, ETS2 is nearly ten years old and is regularly on sale for less than $5. Sales numbers start to mean a lot less when a game is basically being given away over such an extended period of time. Even I have a copy of ETS2, and I've played it for like an hour and a half. It's chill and I can see why people like it, but I don't find myself itching to go back and play it. Just because I own a copy doesn't mean I'd buy an open world race sim.

Thats why I dont think it should be "racer". Driving simulator. Euro truck simulator about all cars with AAA production. There is 9 million people who think that ETS concept is interesting enough to justify spending at least 5$

 

[Johnnn]

I rather doubt it is technically easy to create open-world sim. I am not sure but what I think normal track could have detailed mesh but open world not. Horizon is great but it doesn't feel like simulating real tarmac rather some simplified one. Which is completely OK because you have many bumps but they are too big for normal roads. Another thing is quality of non-racing roads Would be rather Sebring all the time. Overall, Horizon is great approximation for open-world sim. If somebody is able to create it better, it's old PG with T10.