Forza Motorsport Update 5 Out Now: Nordschleife, German Performance, and More

[Ande3200]

It kinda is true, I play on both PC and Xbox, and since maybe Update 2, I've run into very few issues on either platform, and nothing that has been game breaking for me. The only 2 bugs that have really slowed my enjoyment of the game have been replays and input bindings on a wheel.

The upgrade system hasn't prevented me from doing the things I like, sure if you want to take a D class car straight into an A class lobby you're not going to have a good time, but I've had a lot of fun entering open series races with a car that stock fits the class, and after a single race I can usually upgrade my car to the top of that class or become close, you don't need to put 2hrs into a car to level it to 50 to enjoy it, at least that's certainly not my experience.

Fomo career mode is blown out of proportion, they give you loads of time to complete all the series, it's far better than both FH5 which I've certainly missed cars on, and GT7 with it's dealer rotation and heinously expensive cars.

Outdated car models, who cares, even the meme'd Evo looks absolutely fine in game, it will be nice if they retroactively go back and fix some of the models, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over them, and I'd rather have some of these cars than not, as I can't imagine they will be in a real rush to redo models from scratch on some obscure Australian family cars or similar, and these are some of the cars I've had the most fun with, they aren't even in GT, the market has been completely ignored by PD since GT4.

Despite the game's flaws, IMO nothing else in the industry has the features and content I want, so IMO it is a better game, so much so that GT7 and all other sims I own have been pretty much collecting dust since October.

It dosen’t matter if you have like six weeks to complete the tours, my point is the career mode will never grow and after those 6 weeks they are gone, witch means if you dont play regulary this all gone maybe for good, at least gt7 single player is permant, and you can go back and play it as you wish even after a year and that option is not avaiable on fm, you cant say that it would be better with fomo career than having all those tours permant, and there is not much varity either with fm career mode, its the same races just with different cars, and there is barely any that take use of fuel and tyre wear, previous forza games like fm4 had much more varity you could jump in to,


The outdated car models might be fine or ok by you, evo is not even the worst, even if it looks very off, Nissan skyline r32 is most likely the worst its so inaccurate its insane no other racing game feature this bad car model,

 

[syphe]

It dosen’t matter if you have like six weeks to complete the tours, my point is the career mode will never grow and after those 6 weeks they are gone, witch means if you dont play regulary this all gone maybe for good, at least gt7 single player is permant, and you can go back and play it as you wish even after a year and that option is not avaiable on fm, you cant say that it would be better with fomo career than having all those tours permant, and there is not much varity either with fm career mode, its the same races just with different cars, and there is barely any that take use of fuel and tyre wear, previous forza games like fm4 had much more varity you could jump in to,


The outdated car models might be fine or ok by you, evo is not even the worst, even if it looks very off, Nissan skyline r32 is most likely the worst its so inaccurate its insane no other racing game feature this bad car model,

I agree that the tours should be permanent, but at the same time, I'm personally not going back and doing them, I have absolutely no desire to redo the single player events in GT7, they are a joke, and not even worth the comparison, sure they may offer variety, but they are not "races", they are just time trials with backmarkers. Even though the events are structured the same, the actual racing in the career in FM is far better than in GT7.

Again, I'm not here to defend the car models, I do hope that they are updated over time, but again, I would much rather have some of those old models in the game rather than not, especially some of the obscure models that wouldn't have the same demand to be re-modelled, and none of the old models have stopped me enjoying racing those cars, in fact I quite enjoyed driving my Winfield red R32 to level 50, it's fun as hell.

 

[JDMKING13]

It dosen’t matter if you have like six weeks to complete the tours, my point is the career mode will never grow and after those 6 weeks they are gone, witch means if you dont play regulary this all gone maybe for good, at least gt7 single player is permant, and you can go back and play it as you wish even after a year and that option is not avaiable on fm, you cant say that it would be better with fomo career than having all those tours permant, and there is not much varity either with fm career mode, its the same races just with different cars, and there is barely any that take use of fuel and tyre wear, previous forza games like fm4 had much more varity you could jump in to,


The outdated car models might be fine or ok by you, evo is not even the worst, even if it looks very off, Nissan skyline r32 is most likely the worst its so inaccurate its insane no other racing game feature this bad car model,

I agree with this big time and it makes no sense… I don’t know how anyone can defend this at all… The game could be huge by next October if they just left the events.. The single player mode is lacking bad in my opinion… even if they gave us the ability to do custom races like we can do in GT7 I would take that big time vs what we have now…

 

[UKMikey]

The single player mode is lacking bad in my opinion… even if they gave us the ability to do custom races like we can do in GT7 I would take that big time vs what we have now…

I don't understand. The game does have custom races now (and has since day one).

Forza Motorsport (2023) Free-Play Thread: Post Your Custom Races Here!

A thread to post all of your custom races in FM 2023! Will update this when we get confirmation of more Free-Play Options in the game, but here's what we know so far. Upon entering Free-Play, you can choose between either; Quick configuration or Advanced event configuration The options for...

www.gtplanet.net

 

[Watzlaw]

We can even do multiclass races with lot of options..... just click advanced race settings insteed of quik race.

 

[mynameis66]

I tried to view my replay in the Builders cup but after 1.5 laps it resets back to the start of the race,it wont show the whole race.Has it always been this way?

 

[JDMKING13]

I don't understand. The game does have custom races now (and has since day one).

Forza Motorsport (2023) Free-Play Thread: Post Your Custom Races Here!

A thread to post all of your custom races in FM 2023! Will update this when we get confirmation of more Free-Play Options in the game, but here's what we know so far. Upon entering Free-Play, you can choose between either; Quick configuration or Advanced event configuration The options for...

www.gtplanet.net

Have you tried GT7 custom race options? It’s not even close what you can do vs FM. I can literally hand pick each car from my garage and re create race series. I can pick tire/fuel wear 1x 2x 3x etc… I can pick multiple weather slots etc. Yea it’s custom race option as you said but it’s kinda bland… I believe FM7 gave us more options than we have now. This is the same for private multiplayer and why my group of ten cannot run a league. So with more time I’m just hoping they can fix the replays and give us more options so we can run proper leagues.

 

[breeminator]

I can pick tire/fuel wear 1x 2x 3x etc

And it's not just custom races, you have pre-made longer races in GT7 with tyre wear and fuel consumption set up to give them some strategy options and more interesting differentiation between cars. One car might do faster lap times than another, but with higher fuel consumption, so you either have to slow it down with short shifting and/or fuel mix adjustment, or make a pit stop, making the total race time close. I personally prefer having interesting pre-made races because we can compare total race time for them, e.g. look at the long Tokyo thread in the GT7 forum, or Sardegna. You'll never get that same level of interest in custom races.

While this is one area where GT7 is better than FM, GT7 still kind of throws the whole thing and could be so much better. There are no leaderboards for total race time for Tokyo or Sardegna. The missions do have leaderboards, but only for whole number of laps completed, and they don't pay out credits for playing them again.

the single player events in GT7, they are a joke, and not even worth the comparison, sure they may offer variety, but they are not "races", they are just time trials with backmarkers

Yes, GT7 could definitely do it all so much better, but some of the missions do have AIs that challenge the pace of even fairly reasonable human drivers, such as the Human Comedy missions.

While GT7's longer single player races have their flaws, FM could usefully look at incorporating the good elements from them.

 

[JDMKING13]

And it's not just custom races, you have pre-made longer races in GT7 with tyre wear and fuel consumption set up to give them some strategy options and more interesting differentiation between cars. One car might do faster lap times than another, but with higher fuel consumption, so you either have to slow it down with short shifting and/or fuel mix adjustment, or make a pit stop, making the total race time close. I personally prefer having interesting pre-made races because we can compare total race time for them, e.g. look at the long Tokyo thread in the GT7 forum, or Sardegna. You'll never get that same level of interest in custom races.

While this is one area where GT7 is better than FM, GT7 still kind of throws the whole thing and could be so much better. There are no leaderboards for total race time for Tokyo or Sardegna. The missions do have leaderboards, but only for whole number of laps completed, and they don't pay out credits for playing them again.


Yes, GT7 could definitely do it all so much better, but some of the missions do have AIs that challenge the pace of even fairly reasonable human drivers, such as the Human Comedy missions.

While GT7's longer single player races have their flaws, FM could usefully look at incorporating the good elements from them.

I agree with you big time… how do you feel about the Nurburgring? The team did a good job with the Nurburgring.. only thing I wish they didn’t do was add those extra lights.. I just kills the vibe for me during the night.

 

[deththrasher]

After Forza Motorsport 7, the Nurburgring on FM23 is such a massive upgrade to me, mainly because it's not constantly overcast. I don't know what it was about FM7 but even when it was clear it seems dull lighting wise, the atmosphere was always dreary. FM23 nurb set to afternoon clear weather looks stunning and is just so enjoyable.

 

[breeminator]

I agree with you big time… how do you feel about the Nurburgring? The team did a good job with the Nurburgring.. only thing I wish they didn’t do was add those extra lights.. I just kills the vibe for me during the night.

It's not my favourite track, I find it hard to memorise as it's all a bit samey-looking to me. I know, heresy to some people...

But, I have watched some videos comparing it against GT7 and real life. I feel like in daylight, the colours, contrast, and general wear and tear on the environment are a lot more realistic in FM than GT7. GT7 makes everything clearer to see with the saturation and contrast, but I don't think it's realistic. Some of the wear and tear, though, is actually unrealistic in FM. I haven't looked at Nordschleife specifically in this regard, but VIR did make me look at onboard real life footage, and in the game, some of the kerbs kind of look like sand has got onto the kerbs from the adjacent ground. This was completely absent in real life footage, and it makes sense to me that any sand that does get onto kerbs in real life would be picked up and removed by the car tyres. So I think some of the dirtiness at the ground/kerb boundaries is unrealistic in FM.

At night, the headlights in FM seem massively more realistic than GT7 to me. GT7 looks like everyone has their headlights on main beam, which would completely blind the drivers in front.

I'm not personally too bothered about the exact accuracy of trackside objects and spectators. Complete realism is definitely a valid way to go about it, but for anyone who isn't planning to go and drive the track in real life, which is most people, some slight variation to create a more engaging in-game experience, e.g. by lighting up spectator grandstands to an extent that isn't present in reality, I feel is also a valid approach. I don't know why they chose to add lighting of the track in places where it isn't lit in real life, but any complaints about that being worse than GT7 don't impress me when GT7 has the absurd illumination from the headlights instead.

Overall, I feel that both GT7 and FM have representations that are plenty good enough to provide an enjoyable and engaging experience if played in isolation.

 

[JDMKING13]

It's not my favourite track, I find it hard to memorise as it's all a bit samey-looking to me. I know, heresy to some people...

But, I have watched some videos comparing it against GT7 and real life. I feel like in daylight, the colours, contrast, and general wear and tear on the environment are a lot more realistic in FM than GT7. GT7 makes everything clearer to see with the saturation and contrast, but I don't think it's realistic. Some of the wear and tear, though, is actually unrealistic in FM. I haven't looked at Nordschleife specifically in this regard, but VIR did make me look at onboard real life footage, and in the game, some of the kerbs kind of look like sand has got onto the kerbs from the adjacent ground. This was completely absent in real life footage, and it makes sense to me that any sand that does get onto kerbs in real life would be picked up and removed by the car tyres. So I think some of the dirtiness at the ground/kerb boundaries is unrealistic in FM.

At night, the headlights in FM seem massively more realistic than GT7 to me. GT7 looks like everyone has their headlights on main beam, which would completely blind the drivers in front.

I'm not personally too bothered about the exact accuracy of trackside objects and spectators. Complete realism is definitely a valid way to go about it, but for anyone who isn't planning to go and drive the track in real life, which is most people, some slight variation to create a more engaging in-game experience, e.g. by lighting up spectator grandstands to an extent that isn't present in reality, I feel is also a valid approach. I don't know why they chose to add lighting of the track in places where it isn't lit in real life, but any complaints about that being worse than GT7 don't impress me when GT7 has the absurd illumination from the headlights instead.

Overall, I feel that both GT7 and FM have representations that are plenty good enough to provide an enjoyable and engaging experience if played in isolation.

Thats a cool take! We just share different opinions the night driving on the ring in GT7 is more engaging… GT7 actually has high beam and low beam function and you can flash your headlights. Even with the high beams on though it’s scary dark… I’ve ran with regular beams and it’s extremely tough to see anything. Forza is also scary dark but with the spot lights around the track it kinda takes the lure away from the ring. What I do like is how they have the neon lights in the crowd and the way it lights up the track is beautiful!

 

[ScottPuss20]

I've only driven on the Nurburgring since the update. I refuse to drive on any other track.

 

[shoemaker]

Ugh, floodlights all over the Nordschleife. Its meant to be pitch black on most parts. Honestly, this game is infuriating.

 

[Mickeman]

Grid Legends Forever!!!

 

[unfairlane]

Strange, I think the track is great. A bit more bumpy and alive than before and green as can be. As a veteran-tuner I`ve found nothing different when it comes to tyregrip.

And when talking tyregrip, there`s one thing I really miss in the race menu; to set tyre limitations to street, sports or race.

 

[syphe]

Agree, I'm having a lot of fun with it, this is how I feel in an extremely crude image.

 

[AttackDickie]

I like it but can understand others nitpicking if they have that level of attachment to the real-life track, which I don't.

 

[deththrasher]

It just needs noise when you go over the carousel, it bugs me more than it should lol.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Ugh, floodlights all over the Nordschleife. Its meant to be pitch black on most parts. Honestly, this game is infuriating.

There are cars in the game without headlights.


EDIT - Honestly, I think that this is the reason they did that. Would be nice to have an option without the floodlights.

 

[breeminator]

I just watched another comparison video of the Nordschleife between Forza, GT7, and real-life, which I won't link to, but there were plenty of comments on that video about the saturation levels in the two games. Many regard GT7 as over-saturated, and I am one of those people. However, I have seen other people argue that the real world looks saturated and more like GT7. Now, personally, if I actually go outside and look at the real world, I think it looks more like Forza, but it did cause me to look back at Super GT's video of himself driving around Nordschleife for real:



The interesting thing is that the front facing camera he uses for most of the footage looks more like Forza, whereas the rear facing camera looks more like GT7. So it's easy to see how some people might think GT7 looks more like the real world if instead of looking at the real world directly, they're looking at video footage, as the difference is well within what many still or video cameras will add as default processing, where it's common to boost contrast and saturation a bit, or do some HDR-type processing.

So I still feel that Forza is a more neutral presentation of the real world, and looks more like how we see it if we look at it directly. But when comparing against footage of real world racetracks, they may well look more like GT7 if they have been captured using a device that does a bit of boosting of contrast and saturation.

 

[syphe]

My thoughts on this are similar to yours, both Sims have their strengths and weaknesses in terms of presentation.

I feel that Forza environment and world lighting looks more true to life, and as you describe GT7 is over saturated.

Where GT7 shines is the lighting and reflections of the cars themselves, they look much more natural than Forza.

You also touch on something that I have thought about, that our perception of what is realistic is formed on certain factors. I feel like a person's locale also effects this, for example I'm living in Ireland right now, even in summer the landscape is very lush and green, so I may consider GT7 a better representation of real life. however I spent most of my life in a very dry climate where the ground is brown through summer and the environment looks very similar to some of the drier tracks from the US in the game, so I can absolutely see where the inspiration for the lighting and environmental comes from. Or I'm just talking out my backside 😂

 

[ykiki]

It's all weird to me.

I've been playing driving games for a long time (since the 70s). I've played all of the GT games, most Forza titles, Project Cars, ACC, on and on... Whenever anyone mentioned "Nordschliefe", I got excited and thought "I can't wait!!!" Then came the disappointment.

Everyone LOVES this track, raves about it, can't get enough of it - except me. I hated it, no matter what game series it was in, I just couldn't get into it as a driver.

THEN... something changed with me for this version. I love it. It's one of my "go to" tracks in FM. I'm not sure why. Perhaps it's "the look" or the feel, but where I used to dread having to race there in a series, I now really look forward to it.

Yeah, I'm weird.

 

[UKMikey]

THEN... something changed with me for this version. I love it. It's one of my "go to" tracks in FM. I'm not sure why. Perhaps it's "the look" or the feel, but where I used to dread having to race there in a series, I now really look forward to it.

It's the physics.

I've stopped dreading the addition of returning tracks in Forza.

If they decide to bring it back, I might even be able to get round the carousel of death and the killer final turn in Long Beach this time around, unlike in any other racing game I've tried since Race Driver: GRiD.

 

[breeminator]

Everyone LOVES this track, raves about it, can't get enough of it - except me. I hated it, no matter what game series it was in, I just couldn't get into it as a driver.

THEN... something changed with me for this version. I love it. It's one of my "go to" tracks in FM. I'm not sure why. Perhaps it's "the look" or the feel, but where I used to dread having to race there in a series, I now really look forward to it.

I've never been a fan of the track, but I've got into it now in FM and am also enjoying it.

I wish they'd fixed the bad kerb geometry in some places though. Even if they didn't scan the track they could have made a good attempt at fixing it just from onboard footage. I mean how there are corners where the curve has straight sections in it when in reality it's curved. It really messes you up on corners where you want to be hugging the inside kerb because it makes it like a triple apex or whatever rather than just smoothly driving along next to the kerb.

 

[Morbid65]

Kerbs are worth the scrutiny as they are an absolutely critical detail at the Nordschleife, probably more than any other track in the world. Watch any track walkthrough lap from a Nordschleife specialist and they will mention kerbs many, many times and knowing which ones to use and when/how to use them is very important, not just for laptime but also for consistency over the course of a race.

Some of the kerbs that are wrong don't matter too much as you wouldn't be near them in most situations anyways, but there are several that are either too tall, incorrectly shaped, or don't have the extensions behind them and it means you can't take a sequence of corners using the real-life line. Given that they held it back promising "the most accurate and up to date version" it's pretty disappointing to see so many things obviously inaccurate, even if it is still fun to drive there overall.

Weird how aggressively defensive of it some people are though. Even when provided clear evidence of the inaccuracies some people still claim it's "basically perfect" or whatever and accuse the people being critical of being nerds, ridiculous, whiners, etc.

There are cars in the game without headlights.


EDIT - Honestly, I think that this is the reason they did that. Would be nice to have an option without the floodlights.

Pretty much all of those cars without headlights were also in FM7 though, and it didn't have the big floodlights there. They also haven't added big floodlights to other tracks that don't have them that I have noticed, but I guess they wouldn't be as obviously wrong as they are at the Nordschleife so I just haven't noticed. It would be cool to have the option to remove them, but seeing as we have lost a bunch of track variants from FM7, I can't see them adding a track variant without them.

Even with the floodlights though, you still couldn't race cars without headlights there at night. The final left in Kesselchen and the entry to Mutkurve are both pitch black, but even with headlights you can't see the turn in points for them. Really shows how bad of a job Forza does with headlights I think, as if they worked that poorly in real life they wouldn't be able to race at the Nordschleife at night.

While I see how the floodlights could kinda kill the "vibe" or whatever for some people, even as a Nordschleife fanatic myself, I really don't think they are that big of a deal. Kind of weird additions though, given T10's claims of being "the most accurate Nordschleife yet" or whatever, since they are absolutely not accurate inclusions. Means they kinda had to go above and beyond to be wrong.

 

[breeminator]

Kerbs are worth the scrutiny as they are an absolutely critical detail at the Nordschleife, probably more than any other track in the world. Watch any track walkthrough lap from a Nordschleife specialist and they will mention kerbs many, many times and knowing which ones to use and when/how to use them is very important, not just for laptime but also for consistency over the course of a race.

Some of the kerbs that are wrong don't matter too much as you wouldn't be near them in most situations anyways, but there are several that are either too tall, incorrectly shaped, or don't have the extensions behind them and it means you can't take a sequence of corners using the real-life line. Given that they held it back promising "the most accurate and up to date version" it's pretty disappointing to see so many things obviously inaccurate, even if it is still fun to drive there overall.

I agree, in the context of their claims before releasing the track that it would be the most realistic version ever in Forza, and the talk of freshly laser scanning tracks (though I don't think they specifically said that they had freshly scanned Nordschleife), it's disappointing that they didn't pay more attention to the kerbs, for the reasons you mention. Even if they couldn't afford to go there and laser scan it, they could have done a lot to the kerbs just from publicly available onboard footage.

 

[McLaren]

Weird how aggressively defensive of it some people are though. Even when provided clear evidence of the inaccuracies some people still claim it's "basically perfect" or whatever and accuse the people being critical of being nerds, ridiculous, whiners, etc.

It just goes both ways then. The guy who whined about the paint textures on the side of the road still obsessively posts in the subreddit about how inaccurate it is & even does it by going into the GT subreddit. Only car enthusiasts like us will be able to see the valid criticisms in the kerbs, but there are some people talking about the graffiti not being 100% accurate. There's graffiti there, but given the speed of the sections on this track, I don't really have the moment (or care) to see if someone's spray painted object is correct. People defend it as "basically perfect" & people paint it as the most inaccurate thing ever just as they claimed it graphically looks worse than FM4. These aren't serious people.

It's not perfect, but it is a massive change visually from before that still passes & it's a jolt the game needed.

Pretty much all of those cars without headlights were also in FM7 though, and it didn't have the big floodlights there.

And that was also a complaint, then to be fair.

 

[Morbid65]

It just goes both ways then. The guy who whined about the paint textures on the side of the road still obsessively posts in the subreddit about how inaccurate it is & even does it by going into the GT subreddit. Only car enthusiasts like us will be able to see the valid criticisms in the kerbs, but there are some people talking about the graffiti not being 100% accurate. There's graffiti there, but given the speed of the sections on this track, I don't really have the moment (or care) to see if someone's spray painted object is correct. People defend it as "basically perfect" & people paint it as the most inaccurate thing ever just as they claimed it graphically looks worse than FM4. These aren't serious people.

It's not perfect, but it is a massive change visually from before that still passes & it's a jolt the game needed.

And that was also a complaint, then to be fair.

While true, the difference to me is that one is criticism pointed at a game that claimed to be accurate, and the other is attacking the players who are disappointed after being hopeful that T10's claims were true. I feel like the latter makes for more tension/toxicity in forums/community since it's directed at fellow players, although it seems many think that if they are being positive about the game then that by default means they can't possibly be making things toxic.

The graffiti complaints in particular always amused me. I've done thousands and thousands of laps across different titles and I can't think of any bit of graffiti I've ever used as a reference, and I've never heard any of the people I've raced with for years that are actually any good there ever talk about using one as a reference or noticing it was wrong or any specific mark being different from one of the other titles.

I guess it's a bit of a situation of people damaging their cases by being overly critical of things that don't matter, and that makes it easy for people to lump the criticisms that do matter in with them and sweep them all under the rug as "whining" or whatever.

 

[breeminator]

I haven't played AC all that much, I just never really got into it, and it doesn't work at all well with the PS controller I'm using these days, even with Steam's translation layer. However, with all the fuss about the new FM's Nordschleife representation, I decided to give AC another try. I got the controller at least working well enough to let me drive around the track to take screenshots, but it's not working well enough for me to want to seriously play the game.

However, just driving around a couple of times was enough to make me understand why some people are so angry at T10 regarding FM23's representation. It all feels quite significantly different. Now, some of that is because the track itself has changed, so what is in AC no longer matches real life. For example, a lot of new tarmac has been put down, erasing a load of old graffiti. But apart from that, in terms of accuracy and fidelity, AC seems far superior, which is really quite shocking when T10 were talking prior to the track's release about how it's their most accurate representation yet. Now, that might actually be true, however it still has extremely obvious shortcomings in terms of accuracy and fidelity compared to a game from 2014.

Some posts on here have criticised people as obsessive when they compare lots of small details, but there's really no other way to back up the overall feeling of how different the representations are. What else can someone do but present small detail after small detail to show what they're talking about?

I'm just going to present a single set of 3 screenshots:

Those are real life from 2023, AC from 2014, FM from 2023. As I said, new tarmac has been put down, so we can ignore the graffiti difference, though FM23 appears to have added graffiti that isn't now present in real life. Fencing has been installed on the left side, this was absent in AC, and is partially present in FM23. This seems most likely consistent with when the track was captured in each case.

The two big issues in the FM23 representation that really stick out for me are:

1. The barrier on the inside has really obvious straight sections, it's much more of a smooth curve in real life and in AC.

2. The block paving part of the kerb on the left is flat in real life and in AC, but in FM23 they've angled it to the same angle as the red and white section.

These kinds of issues with accuracy and fidelity are present all over the track. I'm not going to spend the time proving that to people, you can either believe me or not, but I can understand why some people feel motivated to repeat what I did here for a large number of other track positions.

I am absolutely not an AC fanboy, I have played various Forza games for thousands of hours, and AC is showing as 3 hours played in my Steam library. And you absolutely can enjoy FM23 in isolation. But I can totally understand that there will be people who have driven around Nordschleife in AC for hundreds or even thousands of hours, and FM23 is going to be utterly jarring for those people, and I think it's completely fair for them to be angry that a representation released 9 years later has such obvious issues with accuracy and fidelity, with the pre-release hype having specifically focused on the subject of accuracy.