Forza Motorsports 4 review by insidesimracing.tv

Not a big fan of Inside Sim Racing. Never been, never will. But, well, they at least mentioned Forza Planet.

Just looking at their final review scores, there are quite a few things I'd disagree with, at least when compared to other games, but whatever.
 
Yeah, I sense they don't have time to really give the game a lot of time, only just over Level 50 etc.. but I think most comments in context are reasonable..


I would just say the physics score is lower then I expected, especially when they scored GT5 12.5/15.. not that I disagree with their GT5 score, but when that obviously models a lot less and definitely has it's own shortcomings, I think FM4 should have at least equalled it, but I guess they are spend a lot of time on PC sims, where jumping on to a console game like FM4 is going to feel a little more 'safe'..
 
I agree with their review on the AI being terrible. This is the ONLY thing that hinders gameplay for me. Too slow, ridiculous mistakes and braking points, and constantly being rammed or pushed off my line if I am not 50 ft or more in the lead. Multi-player takes the AI out of the equation (on some circuit types) but if you don't feel like using the same leaderboard car for every race then you are simply not competitive.

That said.... ONLY 0.25 points above GT5? WTF?

I take their reviews with a grain of salt. Regardless, FM is the best "sim" on consoles.

PzR I agree that the physics score is too low; especially when compared to GT5.

By the way, how did they rate GT5 AI; because there was little to no competition there unless I "under tuned" my car.
 
See, I wouldn't even disagree with much of their review. But, given the comparison to prior reviews, it seems very inconsistent.

Okay, so here's the comparison:

GT5 first, FM4 second.

Physics 12.5 - 11.5: I disagree with that. GT seems very limited in a lot of things, so I can't understand that rating all that well. I mean, contact patch, tyre pressure and so on?
Graphics 9.5 - 9: I could only understand that if you were constantly looking at GT at its best.
Sound 7.5 - 9: Agreed.
Tracks 9 - 8.75: Agreed as well, even though I only agree because of GT's Nordschleife
Cars 9.25 - 9.75: Dunno. GT has lots of cars, sure, but most of them are standards and I still find the selection weird. Would've put a bigger gap between the too, but that's probably too subjective to judge.
Fun 8.5 - 8.75: Again, totally subjective, won't comment on that.
Force Feedback 9 - 7.5: Not enough experience with different wheels to compare them both very well, so I won't comment that either.
AI 3 - 2: They're both brain dead. Personally, I'd say that FM4's AI is a tad faster and equally dumb, but I would've just rated them the same. Don't see a reason to rate FM4's lower than GT5's, though.
Damage 2.25 - 4: Agreed.
Presentation 4 - 4: Subjective, I guess.
Multiyplayer 3.5 - 4: Don't get this. FM4 offers leaderboards, Rivals Mode, Auction House, storefronts and so on top of what GT5 offers, and it only makes that little of a difference?
Cost 5 - 5: Would've rated Forza lower here, unless they were comparing collectors editions.
Total Score 83 - 83.25
 
Wait... Doesn't the AI get tougher the more you level up?? How can he complain if he was only at level 50 out of 150???
 
I don't think it gets any tougher. The AI might scale with your progress in World Tour Mode, not sure, but it definitely doesn't when you're oicking races from the event list.
 
A bit of an oversight on their behalf, no big deal, but photomode was introduced with 2, not 3.
 
I was just about to ask what scores did GT5 get to compare to FM4. My comments below:

Physics, GT5 got rated higher??? How?? Is it because there's weather and offroad and GT5 does grip modifiers for these effect/road conditions? If giving GT5 a 12.5/15 I'd actually put FM4 at least at 13.5/15. It feels more realistic to me both with pad and wheel. And we can give a lot of examples of how FM does it better, period. So this score makes no sense to me. They did mention that they were at about level 50, and when they had their first review they were only 4hours in of actual race time so take it for what it is.

Graphics, GT5 got a .5 score higher by having 80% of ported content that's worse than FM2??? I do think the premiums are absolutely stunning and unmatched but judging the game as a whole package you don't look at 20% of cars on 1/2 the tracks. You look at the whole package. But seeing as we're probably looking at best of the best, then sure GT5 will score higher, no doubt. But then when you're playing when things are it it's best the visuals of GT5 stutter and tear.

Sound, I would agree, although I think 7.5 for GT5 is higher than should be.

Tracks, I'm not sure how I feel on this one. Nord is clearly better on GT5. Outside of that GT5 ranges from "HD remakes" of their GT4 tracks to stunning tracks, but FM4's in my book is a better. I think because we've seen so few new tracks that FM4 got dinged on this.

Cars, this depends really. I think FM4's score of 9.75 is too high, but GT5's score is also too high. Sure, we have 1000+ cars, but 80% of them are ported work missing features and locked out of game modes.

Fun, debatable. I think both are great fun but personally FM4 is more fun to me. Grinding is not fun. Like at all. And this was 'fixed' with seasonal events but the game itself feels more of a drag than anything.

FFB, I always thought FM4's FFB was a little better but not by much post patch (didn't try my Fanatec pre patch so not sure if it was reduced) so not sure what to think

AI, GT5's AI is worse than FM4s so how does GT's AI get it better? Mind you, I'm including the stupidity of FM4's AI when they go off the track forgetting to brake and turn. Another thing is I noticed in some of their videos, and comments even, that they were racing aggressively, bumping the AI out of the way, driving recklessly, without damage. Sure, drive bump n run style and the game becomes easier. Drive full damage on, taking proper lines, etc and this game becomes a lot harder than you think.

Damage, This nod easily goes to FM4. It's available throughout the game. It's only available in GT5 online and in practice modes, nowhere on seasonals, special events, and career.

Presentation, is this like menu layouts and all that? If so, GT5 gets dinged on it which I agree but FM4's is better.

MP, I'd give more score for FM4 than just .5 more but there are things in GT5 MP that I like, like free run while folks are in lobby as an example. Thing is there's a ton more to do in FM4 from normal MP races to rivals to storefronts/auction house, etc etc


I think the score should easily be a lot more than just 0.25 points. Are they trying to keep it equal enough due to the GT fans which massively bashed the ISR team to death, discredited them as being fanboys galore up until they said proGT/antiFM comments?? And now they are credible according to them :P
It seems they did this review scoring while walking on eggshells to avoid the backlash they received in the past from the GT camp, and I wouldn't be surprised if my assumption was true. ;)

1 note I noticed from this review that was wrong. They said something about FM3 getting photomode. Photomode was already there in FM2. Wasn't the only thing I noticed them being wrong btw.


Rereading my post it seems I'm some FM fanboy when I'm really not lol
I take what they say not as the end all be all but as your average 'unbiased' gamer who's into the genre. Nice to have them around for sure but sometimes their reviews make me question their bias and validity in the first place.
 
I think the score should easily be a lot more than just 0.25 points. Are they trying to keep it equal enough due to the GT fans which massively bashed the ISR team to death, discredited them as being fanboys galore up until they said proGT/antiFM comments?? And now they are credible according to them :P

This is EXACTLY how I feel about the review now.
 
This is EXACTLY how I feel about the review now.

It's what I feel to be honest. They got A TON of backlash from the GT fans when they highly praised I believe FM2/3 and you could see they were cautious with their GT5 review and GT5 vs Forza review. It just seems too low of a score to me and that's not due to bias but the issues I have with their scoring system. They explained things how they felt but didn't get more in details with them that I'd like. Example, physics, is it because GT5 has more track types (tarmac, dirt, snow, etc) and Forza doesn't or because they felt that GT5's physics are better than Forzas?
 
It's what I feel to be honest. They got A TON of backlash from the GT fans when they highly praised I believe FM2/3 and you could see they were cautious with their GT5 review and GT5 vs Forza review. It just seems too low of a score to me and that's not due to bias but the issues I have with their scoring system. They explained things how they felt but didn't get more in details with them that I'd like. Example, physics, is it because GT5 has more track types (tarmac, dirt, snow, etc) and Forza doesn't or because they felt that GT5's physics are better than Forzas?

Or the one example where they pretty much make light of Forza's tire physics. "They say they have new tire physics ...". The way he said it is like he couldn't tell the difference. If he really can't tell the difference then I don't know what's wrong with him. It's CLEAR and OBVIOUS that there's a difference in the tire physics. I mean that's not even up for question.
 
Not a big fan of Inside Sim Racing. Never been, never will. But, well, they at least mentioned Forza Planet.

Just looking at their final review scores, there are quite a few things I'd disagree with, at least when compared to other games, but whatever.

I wasn't terribly impressed by this review myself, I think the overall score of Forza 4 should be 90 at least. The comparison they will be doing will be very interesting to say the least.
 
The problem with ISR is that they are really emotional. They rarely follow a logical system. Everything is so subjective, yet they miss a lot of interesting points. Also, that site is pretty political now, they have to say good things of every developer to get material for the future, and get invited to press stuff. Sad but true.
 
It's hard for them to know where to draw the line between the truth and pleasing developers so ISR/SRT can keep getting preview copies and stuff to test. Be patient with them, they are still growing. They will only be able to be truly honest with their reviews once they can keep afloat solely due to their huge amount of fans and popularity.

Top Gear UK is the perfect example. They can now give honest reviews on cars they test because of their popularity. Imagine how many fans would be upset with a car manufacturer if that manufactorer sued Top Gear for their honest opinion!
 
It's hard for them to know where to draw the line between the truth and pleasing developers so ISR/SRT can keep getting preview copies and stuff to test. Be patient with them, they are still growing. They will only be able to be truly honest with their reviews once they can keep afloat solely due to their huge amount of fans and popularity.

Top Gear UK is the perfect example. They can now give honest reviews on cars they test because of their popularity. Imagine how many fans would be upset with a car manufacturer if that manufactorer sued Top Gear for their honest opinion!

Couldn't agree more with you.
 
I think they should use CSR Elite to review forza 4,not CSR!
I have CSR Elite,forza 4 is amazing!FFB is very strong!I adjust FFB to 20%,100% is too strong.But they say FFB is week after patch.So i disagree FFB score!FFB should score at least 9,because i feel FFB as good as GT5 using CSR Elite,even better,having more FFB detail when car drives to grass or sand.
 
I guess you guys might be right. They had to make FM4 get a similar score to GT5. Otherwise, their website would be crowded with pissed off guys, ready to start flame wars about that.

Hell, I've seen some folks do just that because of the .25 that they rated FM4 higher already :odd:
 
Can't believe why so many people are crying over two middle aged men rating the Forza .25 over GT. ISR content isn't exactly top notch, not when crappy commercials are the top priority, and childish skirmishes with hardware manufacturers putting the show into the spotlight.

Oh and if you want a proper FM history overview then watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bhnGHTAMY8
 
This:

"It still has that Forza feel....easy to correct...which isnt a bad thing, most sims are too hard to drive compared to real life....."

Goes on to mention in real life having gravity , seat of the pants driving, and how driving in real life is actually easier in their opinion, which as a driver i agree with! And so does my brother whos a racing driver but rubbish at driving games!!!

Theres alot of bedroom race drivers that will never see a track or even a real car with pedigree.
I actually take this review seriously once they mentioned what ive always said about the fact bedroom race drivers think these games should be impossible to drive......its not true....real life isnt like that..
 
LOL wasnt it FM fans that praised ISR and flaunted their scores when compared to GT5 in terms of realism as a way to justify FM3 was better then GT5. Now that FM4 is not quite on par with Gt5 in terms of physics and FFb they are attacking ISR and saying they are bias LMAO. I think I see a pattern here. Gt and FM fans are pretty much the same.

These guys have probably far more experience with wheels, rigs, sim games than anyone here so I think their opinion is far more informative than anyone here.

To be honest I agree with those scores however I think both FM and Gt should be in the mid to high 70's. PC sims are quite far ahead and should in the high 80's and low 90's.

Also these guys play PC sims a lot so of course they are going to think that FM is a bit too easy.
 
These guys have probably far more experience with wheels, rigs, sim games than anyone here so I think their opinion is far more informative than anyone here.
Wow, they've played many games. That sure must help when deciding what's closest to real life, no?

Wanna guess who's opinion I'd really value a lot? Someone's, who's got a significant amount of experience with cars, driving and the physics involved with the latter. I'm putting far more faith in Scaff's opinion, for example, than that of anyone who's only ever played games instead of gathering experience with real cars.

Because, otherwise, you'll just use something as your benchmark that might possibly be totally off.
I think I see a pattern here.
Wanna know a pattern I've been seeing? You're only around to post some flame-bait comments or some rather biased remarks and run off as soon as someone confronts you with facts, as seen in the GT5 vs. FM4 thread.

That pattern looks a bit like this:
6a00d8341c387d53ef0148c84decb8970c-320wi

 
LOL wasnt it FM fans that praised ISR and flaunted their scores when compared to GT5 in terms of realism as a way to justify FM3 was better then GT5. Now that FM4 is not quite on par with Gt5 in terms of physics and FFb they are attacking ISR and saying they are bias LMAO. I think I see a pattern here. Gt and FM fans are pretty much the same.

These guys have probably far more experience with wheels, rigs, sim games than anyone here so I think their opinion is far more informative than anyone here.

To be honest I agree with those scores however I think both FM and Gt should be in the mid to high 70's. PC sims are quite far ahead and should in the high 80's and low 90's.

Also these guys play PC sims a lot so of course they are going to think that FM is a bit too easy.


Same guys who said this in the review.....?????


"It still has that Forza feel....easy to correct...which isnt a bad thing, most sims are too hard to drive compared to real life....."


Theres an over the top difficulty in these so called true sims which ive long been aware of, and then it falls down into games like Forza and GT5 where people seem to think if you can control a car somehow thats 'arcade'.............its rubbish, its for people who dont leave the house and dont own a car let alone a good one and live their whole life and achievements via a top notch PC and feel they are Lewis Hamilton cause they are good at sim racing......its rubbish.... then your get GT fans who think the same.... we are all playing make believe using pixels and smoke and mirrors... PC, console....or Mario Kart on the Wii...

Cars arent made to be uncontrollable.....

Max there's so much i'd love to say but your not worth the ban....
 
LOL wasnt it FM fans that praised ISR and flaunted their scores when compared to GT5 in terms of realism as a way to justify FM3 was better then GT5. Now that FM4 is not quite on par with Gt5 in terms of physics and FFb they are attacking ISR and saying they are bias LMAO. I think I see a pattern here. Gt and FM fans are pretty much the same.

These guys have probably far more experience with wheels, rigs, sim games than anyone here so I think their opinion is far more informative than anyone here.

To be honest I agree with those scores however I think both FM and Gt should be in the mid to high 70's. PC sims are quite far ahead and should in the high 80's and low 90's.

Also these guys play PC sims a lot so of course they are going to think that FM is a bit too easy.

Actually it was GT only fans who thrashed them to bits and ISR never saw such back lash when they were commenting on Forza so highly. After this backlash, their next reviews they admitted that they might have given Forza 2/3 too high a score, and then became 'neutral' and noting how great GT was. And the GT faithful who once discredited ISR entirely as xbots and Flopza fanboys now made them a credible reviewer ;)

As an example, ISR is 'so balanced with reviews and so experienced' that after already being driver level 19 or so prior to FM4 even being released (they got a copy early) they are only now at driver level 50 and not once identified what settings, behaviors put gt physics above forza when many folks here have a lot of examples which says otherwise ;). And as core sim genre fans, in this video review alone, showcased no damage on, casual minded bump n run racing bashing the AI off the roads with aggressive driving behavior which would black flag you in a heartbeat.
I'm not discrediting them. I'm doing as I did in the past, questioning their reviews because I see them as I've always saw them, your average gaming fan of the genre.

btw, don't you owe someone here an example of straight as an arrow standing start launch in a cobra?
 
Leave it alone folks. If he posts in a similar manner again, he'll be dealt with by the staff.
 
Huh, I really wasn't expecting this but i'd say that ISR isn't far of the mark here.

While there are some that are questioning the scores, I'll put a bit of light on why I think the scores are not far wrong (highlights).

Physics 12.5 - 11.5. Both games get things right and wrong. Why GT5 wins out is unfortunately FM4 does dumb things down too much. Its way too easy to correct hiccups. Sorry but it really is

Sound 7.5 - 9. Hmm, bit subjective. GT5 would only get a 7.5 if they were reviewing spec II. However, I would only give FM4 a 8.5 due to its glorified sound. Its starts to get on the nerves a bit when even when you are in car, it still feels like your ears are only 2 inches away from the exhaust

Tracks 9 - 8.75. FM4 gets too higher score for me here. Graphics aside, GT5's original tracks blow FM4's away. Also, apart from LS, FM4's RL tracks just have way too many issue's. Majority is because they were deliberately made easier

AI 3 - 2. Yep, GT5's arcade AI, on pro set to 10 wins through
 
Physics 12.5 - 11.5. Both games get things right and wrong. Why GT5 wins out is unfortunately FM4 does dumb things down too much. Its way too easy to correct hiccups. Sorry but it really is
I disagree. If you overcorrect the angle too much you'll pay for it.

Recovery doesn't haven't to be nigh on impossible for it to be realistic. Both games suffer from making recovery a bit more difficult than it is in real life anyway. The F10 M5 for example has less grip in the game than it does in real life.


Sound 7.5 - 9. Hmm, bit subjective. GT5 would only get a 7.5 if they were reviewing spec II. However, I would only give FM4 a 8.5 due to its glorified sound. Its starts to get on the nerves a bit when even when you are in car, it still feels like your ears are only 2 inches away from the exhaust

Not entirely true. That was the case in 3, but the sounds are a bit more compartmentalized now. If you stick a racing muffler on and make the car as light as possible then of course it's going to sound that way because there's nothing to dampen the sound (or the vibrations).

Tracks 9 - 8.75. FM4 gets too higher score for me here. Graphics aside, GT5's original tracks blow FM4's away. Also, apart from LS, FM4's RL tracks just have way too many issue's. Majority is because they were deliberately made easier

Subjective.
 
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