Front end grip!!!

[mistersafeway]

When I tested it, I just did a very basic test involving an Impreza; ride height all the way up versus all the way down. When it was all the way up it felt pretty good, but as soon as I dropped it down the car started sliding like I'd dropped down a few grades of tyre. I have also been tuning a few cars since that and the end with higher ride height had more grip than the other (based on how the car felt at stock height).

 

[Taz69]

When I tested it, I just did a very basic test involving an Impreza; ride height all the way up versus all the way down. When it was all the way up it felt pretty good, but as soon as I dropped it down the car started sliding like I'd dropped down a few grades of tyre. I have also been tuning a few cars since that and the end with higher ride height had more grip than the other (based on how the car felt at stock height).

Was the testing online or off???

 

[kleefton]

OK here is the questions. Say on a front engine rear wheel drive car I wana ask how to gain the most front end grip for online racing.. We all know that a higher front spring or camber near 2.0 to 2.5 will give better front grip. But I wana ask about dampers and sway bars.. Dont need any info about the rear got that figured out. I know how to make the rear looser or tighter this is just about the front. First dampers. Does a high damper setting say 8 ext and a 8 comp on the front give better grip or a lower setting say 4 ext and 4 comp give better grip. Or a large split say 8 ext and 4 comp or even reversed say 4 ext and 8 comp give better grip. Or is it impossible to just set the front dampers to get the max front grip without messing with the rear. Some say the only way to get the front to turn is to have the front comp higher than the rear comp. Second roll bars. Does a large front roll bar give more front grip or a small front roll bar give more grip. Or is it reversed does a large rear roll bar give more front grip or a small rear roll bar give more front grip. Tire wear dosent matter just looking at dampers and roll bars what would give the best turn in and mid corner grip and not worry about how it affects the rear.. Also toe does negative toe help turn in and mid corner grip or does positive front toe give more turn in and mid corner grip. I dont care if it slows response down but gives an overall more grip whats the best front settings to gain the most front grip with toe, dampers, and rollbars without being concerned about makeing the rear looser or tighter. Seems its very hard to gain front grip and lot easier to make the car looser with the rear. But a loose car that pushes trying to figure how to get the push out without loosing the rear up any. So without LSD and rear toe and ride height being a factor. With dampers, front toe, and roll bars what gives he most front grip for online play... Thanks for any input.

You mention that the car seems to understeer and oversteer at the same time? Well that is not really posible. You need to identify when the understeer and oversteer are happening. I'm assuming you're talking about understeer when you are off the gas and in the middle of a turn. And I'm assuming your oversteer problems are when you are exiting a corner and applying the gas.

In that case to cure the understeer I would lower the front compression damper and lower the rear extension damper simultaneously. This allows more weight transfer to the front tires and hence more grip.

To cure the oversteer I would lower rear compression and lower the front extension, to allow more weight to the rear tires during acceleration.

Again, I am assuming that you're getting understeer mostly when you are off the gas and that you are oversteering when you are on the gas.

I have not found any significant change when tuning Antiroll bars.
Springs should be set relative to the weight of the car you are tuning.
Negative toe yields more oversteer.
LSD settings differ depending on the car I have found.

Hope that helped.

 

[TheBull]

When I tested it, I just did a very basic test involving an Impreza; ride height all the way up versus all the way down. When it was all the way up it felt pretty good, but as soon as I dropped it down the car started sliding like I'd dropped down a few grades of tyre. I have also been tuning a few cars since that and the end with higher ride height had more grip than the other (based on how the car felt at stock height).

When you dropped like that all the way down ,your obviously bottoming out with that particualar car ,thats why it feels like your sliding ,it also feels that way if your rear springs are too stiff

Try with a 0,0 ride height if possible and work down till you start to get the slide ,and then you will notice how much more grip there is compared to a raised ride height

 

[mistersafeway]

Was the testing online or off???

Sorry, forgot to say that that testing was online.

When you dropped like that all the way down ,your obviously bottoming out with that particualar car ,thats why it feels like your sliding ,it also feels that way if your rear springs are too stiff

Try with a 0,0 ride height if possible and work down till you start to get the slide ,and then you will notice how much more grip there is compared to a raised ride height

I doubt my rear springs were too stiff considering all I changed was the ride height, but maybe Subaru were completely insane in those days (late nineties I think).

Also, you can argue as much as you want, but I know the ride height is still wrong online; when I drove my Veyron I was having trouble with understeer at full ride height front and rear and dropping the rear caused more turn in, exactly as raising the rear with both ends dropped would if the game were accurate.

Polyphony's idea of fixing the ride height was to reduce the effect it has while offline so that it's practically unnoticeable (if TT's use offline physics then ride height makes a small difference, at least to the FGT) and pretend that online doesn't exist. It's rather unfortunate when you consider that the rest of the patch was so good.

 

[TheBull]

I never said your rear springs were too stiff ,i said its obvious your bottoming out as your ride height was too low ,i mentioned stiff rear springs as the effect on a rear sliding is the same

The ride height on this game is correct to test it ,try running an enzo around daytona with max ride height then try doing it with min ride height ,i think you might be suprised

 

[mistersafeway]

So in real life jacking the height up all the way in the front and a bit less in the rear would make a car turn in more rather than less? Or do you think I imagined it?

 

[TheBull]

So in real life jacking the height up all the way in the front and a bit less in the rear would make a car turn in more rather than less? Or do you think I imagined it?

No and im not disputing that ,but that doesnt give you more front end grip what that actually gives you is an suspension that promotes over steer with high rear end grip because your rear is gaining more traction

 

[mistersafeway]

Increasing rear end grip causes understeer, anyone who knows about racing knows that. Take the Korean GP earlier today, Hamilton's front tyres were scrubbing and he was understeering and losing ground. Or, if you don't watch F1, get in an F1 or X1 car in GT5 and put downforce at 125 150, drive a few laps of a technical circuit, then raise rear downforce to 160 which will raise rear grip. The car will turn less: understeer.

 

[gknap]

Increasing rear end grip causes understeer, anyone who knows about racing knows that. Take the Korean GP earlier today, Hamilton's front tyres were scrubbing and he was understeering and losing ground. Or, if you don't watch F1, get in an F1 or X1 car in GT5 and put downforce at 125 150, drive a few laps of a technical circuit, then raise rear downforce to 160 which will raise rear grip. The car will turn less: understeer.

Agreed.
Like I said in my earlier post. The key for any setup is finding the balance between fontend and backend grip. Too much frontend grip=oversteer, too much backend grip=understeer. Simples

 

[TheBull]

Sorry i thought i wrote under steer lol as i said it didnt give any more front end grip ,i shouldnt be trying to play the game as i`m typing

I was testing what you said on the veryon and you are correct in what you were saying on the raised ride height helping you turn ,but when i was testing at 0-0 it didnt turn 40 -40 it turned quite easily but when i tested it at 35-40 it felt like it was oversteering ,but when i tested it at 40-35 it still felt like the back was sliding then gripping but equally oversteering with 35-40 seeming like the best test set up

I then re-tested my enzo at 40 45 ,it felt loose rising up in corners like it was missing traction
At negative 20 - negative 15 the enzo was tight and only fractionally rising up in the corners

I tested both cars at daytona and both did the oppisotte ,the veryron prefered the raise ride height where the enzo prefered the low so is this just a difference on 4wd and MR cars?

but one thing i can say is that your also correct with the rear ride height being backwards because i then tested the enzo at negative 20 and negative 25 ride height and it held the line slightly better

so in the case of veyron your abseloutley correct but a slightly dropped front end seemed better for grip

but in the case of the enzo i was right with a dropped ride height and your right with the game has got the suspension the wrong way round

 

[Taz69]

kleefton you are correct thats where im haveing issues on the oversteer and understeer I will try your suggestions.. Pushing in the middle of the turn and getting loose on corner exit. I can add rear toe raise the rear a little or put stiffer rear springs in the rear and it will tighten the rear up. But the push getting rid of that is a LOT harder thats why I was asking what you can do to gain frontend grip.. I have no problem getting rear grip but have a hard time getting the push out of a car without loosening up the rear. Would like to just know what settings give max frontend grip lol..