Front eng rear wheel drive how to get more mid corner grip?

[Taz69]

Hey guys say you have a front eng rear wheel drive car and JUST talking about dampers and sway bars what would you do to get more mid corner grip from the front wheel WITHOUT loosing up the rear any. Say you go along the lines of the setting being reversed would you increas comp on the rear and decrease ext on the rear. Or would you decrease ext on the rear and increase comp on the front?? Sway bar would you go up on the sway bar or down on the sway bar. This is just for mid corner or overall front grip. If you think the settings are correct the would you go to the front and increase comp on the front and decrease ext on the front. Or would you do the oppiste and increase exr on the front and decrease comp on the front. And with the sway bar would you go bigger on the front or smaller on the front. online I have several front engine rear wheel drive cars that push mid corner but are loose so im only looking how to increase front grip without changeing the rear. I know negative toe on the rear or ride height but with dampeners and sway bars what do you guys do to increase the grip on the front.. Does adding or going negative with the front toe increase grip and or just change how the car responds. Turn in is ok but waiting till mid corner I cant figure out how to get a little more grip out of the front. And this is for online settings not offline.. Offline car handles completly different. Thanks for any input agin just dampeners and sway bars getting more grip out of the front without loosing up the rear...

 

[Furinkazen]

hey guys

and...? What?

 

[Diogo]

'Sup ?

 

[Johnnypenso]

It's impossible to give anything other than vague generalities that may or may not help you without seeing the full tune on the car. There are so many factors involved it's possible some part of your tune may be affecting the cars performance other than damper settings. Post the whole tune, including the ballast, tires used, tracks raced on and your equipment and someone might be able to help you.

 

[Litzner]

In general, if you give a car more grip on the front tires, it will make the car feel looser. Not because the rears have any less grip, but because the front is gripping more then it was before, and the back is the same.

It is all about a balance, if you increase front grip, you would also have to increase rear grip to keep how far the car wants to rotate the same.

If the car is pushing in the middle of the corner, but you are otherwise loose, that could be helped with some LSD settings. To get more grip in and out, but not change the car when coasting.

But it all depends on what is causing the problem, the problem very well could be stemming from your driving style, if you break too late, you could push mid corner, and be loose in, all depending on your break balance, and LSD settings.

If you are pushing mid, and loose out, your foot may be a little heavy, which a some stronger LSD settings could help compensate for this.

Tuning a car is just as much about tuning it for the driver's style, as it is for the track or conditions.

If you are a Windows user, you could also give this a try.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=198067

It will give you a decent base setting for most cars, try that, and tell me the difference.

 

[CSLACR]

ARB's and dampers can't really add mechanical grip in GT5 whatsoever.
There really isn't much of anything increases a cars grip outside of down force, camber, toe, and potentially ride height in GT5. Even these are minimal or a trade at best.

Down force is sure-fire grip, but adds PP.
Camber can add grip, but higher values decrease straight-line traction, and higher camber increases tire wear.
Toe can add very small amounts of grip, but nothing worth what unnecessary toe will do to the cars handling.
Raising ride height increases straight line acceleration grip on RWD very well, but presumably reduces mid-corner grip, as lap times don't change generally between properly set up lowered cars or raised cars.
Lowering ride height presumably adds mid-corner grip, but you'll pay the price coming out of corners if your car is lacking traction on exit.

 

[XDesperado67]

Depending on your Camber Dampers and Roll bars can have some effect on grip. If your running fairly high Camber but you have very stiff suspension including the Dampers and roll bars then the car may not be rolling enough to make full use of that Camber. On the other hand if your using very little Camber but have soft suspension then the car may be rolling to far again not putting the Camber you have to its best use.
The thing is you have to put the entire suspension together so that all of it is working together for maximum effect.
No one setting is going to provide a magic fix, it all has to complement each other. Also the track conditions can also have a large impact on what is best. A great tune on Indy road course for example could be mediocre at at GVS and terrible on the Nordschleife.

 

[Taz69]

Ok for those of you who have asked I will explain this will be a little long. Track DeepForest ONLINE.. All aids off except ABS and no tire wear (I dont race in rooms with it so looking for fastest setup dosent matter if it chews tires off in 2 laps) Tires Race soft.. Here is an example of what im finding and talking about..

M3 GTR street car.. Here is the setup 550pp is what I test at..

Ride height -15/-15
Springs 12.5/12.5
Damper ext 7/7
Damper comp 10/1
Anti roll 2/2
Camber 2.0/1.5
Toe 0.0/0.0
LSD 10/13/5
Set this way with transmission at 174 top speed I can run 1.10.8s all day.. With the dampers set any other way the car slows down to as much as 1 sec. Now look I know those damper settings arent in the norm. It took 2hrs of trying every different combo to come up with that leaving everything else alone. JUST playing with the dampers I can get a 1 sec difference and as you can see those arent what anyone would normally try but if you have a GTR set it at 550pp go to DeepForest run your car then touching nothing else set your dampers this way and I will bet you gain some time. I dont care if it eats tires you will have a faster lap time.. Every car I have been tuneing lately has the fastes lap with some kind of screw ball damper setttings but it takes hrs to figure out. I run at least 5 to 6 laps per run to give it a fare chance. Next car I was asking about

Camaro SS 10 Street car..

Rideheight -13/-13
Springs 12.5/12.2
Damper ext 7/7
Damper com 4/4
Roll bars 3/3
Camber 2.2/1.5
Toe 0.00/0.00
LSD 10/12/5

At DeepForest I call it turn 4 but the down hill right just before the first tunnel car wants get real loose but the flat right leading into the second tunnel it wants to push. Getting in turn 1 it gets in then you have to wait or it will push then get back on the gas. Lowering the rear spring or rear rideheight makes it so loose you cant get into the first tunnel without going sideways. I know how to tighten up a car higher rear spring raise rear rideheight or add some rear toe but back to my original question is how to gain more front grip when you have the rideheight and springs correct.. Only thing left is dampers and roll bars. If the settings are reversed do you play with the rear adjustments to make the front get grip. Does way offset damper settings give more grip say on the front a 10 ext and a 1 comp.. Or a 1 comp and a 10 ext.. There seems to be no real pattern bigger bar in the rear does that give grip or smaller. Heck I have found running the smallest roll bars possible or close to possible gives a faster lap time than haveing big bars on the car. Ive seen guys online with this car do real good but since the stock weght bias is 47/53 maybe there jacking with the weight. I wish there was a way online to make the room so the cars have to run stock weight bias. You could still add weight if ya want but only to the middle cause for a year I tried getting my Elise and Evora to compete online till I figured out 50kg in the -50 all the way front position and wala car was 10 times better and I had spent so much time screwing with suspension when it need weight distribution change.. So I will just go back to trying 40 different dampers setting on each car till I hit the fastest one but was seeing if anyone else had a system for online with no tire wear on racing softs cause most tunes on here arent done online and arent done with race tires. And yes online and offline are totally different and take 2 different tunes.. Chime in anyone im open to any thoughts damper settings can give a 1 or 1.2 sec difference my GTR with damper ext 6/6 and comp 4/4 is way slower with the same settings than with that crazy setting I have above but funny thing it works. There seems like no pattern.. But I have seen a Camaro online getting it and I know its not springs or rideheight or camber or toe that was makeing him so fast he just figured out the crazy damper and roll bar settings for that car and dang it takes forever to test.. And before anyone says anything I test at DeepForest cause with everything the track has if it runs good here it seems to run good anywhere and the track isnt that long. And what about front toe. Some say negative front toe helps steering quicker but LOOSES over some grip. Some say positive toe increase grip wil other say it dosent. Can front toe either direction add overall grip I dont care if slow steering response or picks it up but I dont want to add any iff it takes away overall front grip.. Any thoughts..

 

[Taz69]

Here is another crazy tune GTR-V spec 09.. Ran a 109.8 at 569pp

Rideheight -10/-10
Springs 15.5/10.8
Damper ext 4/8
Damper comp 8/4
Roll bar 2/2
Camber 2.0/1.0
Toe 0.00/0.00
Torque split 30/70
LSD front 5/5/5 rear 10/40/5

As you can see with everything else left alone after 20 damper settings it went the fastes with this damper setting. WHY lol.. Thats odd ball according to all the thought it shouldnt but it did. Now im sure playing with toe in the rear or LSD it will go faster but im trying to just dial in dampeners and agin a crazy setting produced the fastest lap time. Makes no since lol Agin at DeepForest all aids off. No tire wear racing soft tires and ABS on 1.. Also done online in a room by myself..

 

[Adrenaline]

If I'm understanding your wall of text correctly, in short what you're saying is, you want your car to handle perfectly on BOTH:
A high cambered, down hill, high speed, tight turn
as it does on:
A Flat, inclined, low speed, sweeping corner.

Sorry, you can't have the best of both worlds.

 

[Taz69]

Maybe I should use a different test track lol.. Thanks Adrenaline.. Its only a wall cause everyone wanted to know the exact tune of everything before thay would answer if its to big I appologize..

 

[dr_slump]

Any thoughts..

Test all 10'000 combinations

 

[CSLACR]

It can be difficult to decipher the difference between a setup improvement, and learning how to go faster around the track you're hot lapping while tuning, trying to improve the time.
Was it the tune change? Or the extra laps?

I must have asked myself this 10 times every week when I was running the WRS regularly.

And what about front toe? Some say negative front toe helps steering quicker but LOOSES over some grip. Some say positive toe increase grip wil other say it dosent.

IIRC the toe listing is reversed in GT5, they refer to positive toe with a - symbol, and negative toe with a + symbol.
Either way, how it works in GT5 is this: Move front toe left (-) less steering response, slower inputs, smoother drive, less loss of grip when steering very hard.
Move the front toe right (+), increased steering response, loss of grip when turning hard, and potentially gain small amounts of grip in a straight line on FWD. (but not worth the loss of handling IMO)

 

[BrazilianRacerx]

ARB's and dampers can't really add mechanical grip in GT5 whatsoever.
There really isn't much of anything increases a cars grip outside of down force, camber, toe, and potentially ride height in GT5. Even these are minimal or a trade at best.

Down force is sure-fire grip, but adds PP.
Camber can add grip, but higher values decrease straight-line traction, and higher camber increases tire wear.
Toe can add very small amounts of grip, but nothing worth what unnecessary toe will do to the cars handling.
Raising ride height increases straight line acceleration grip on RWD very well, but presumably reduces mid-corner grip, as lap times don't change generally between properly set up lowered cars or raised cars.
Lowering ride height presumably adds mid-corner grip, but you'll pay the price coming out of corners if your car is lacking traction on exit.

Agreed.

If you wanna really have a tuner experience. Play Rfactor or any other NASCAR GAME.
You can increase mechanical grip through Fast and Slow Dumper Settings, Cross Weight and most importan... Setups are not symmetrical. this means you can try diferente combinations between left and rear side of suspension.

On a track like Monza - just turn right - this would make enormous diference. Setting right Extension and Springs Hard etc...

GT5 there are some trends which you may follow... and those guys here have the recipe.