Fuji turn, cheat? cheaters in general

[Rustyhole]

yeah, what's really annoying is after watching someone cut past you on the inside of that corner, you get a 'little' too far to the left of the next sharp corner and I get a shortcut penalty and watch the retards drive away!! WTF!!
** and i know for a fact, on at least few of those moments, I had 'at least' two wheels on the pavement

Also, to anyone I've blown a corner and outright blew away... apologies as I've had more than a few examples. Online is a different beast and one I'm unaccustomed to (but learning )

 

[randys]

i noticed again today the same guys repeatedly take the ford gt lm spec for instance, and under pp it by two points at the 750 pp race suzuka or fuji, never remember which is which and as a result always start out in front...

i guess i dont get it...why would you want to always start in front, afraid of a little competition?

i have to remind myself that unlike myself most racing are young, much younger in most cases i suppose...oh well.

 

[cicohipe]

Lowering your PP is just smart really, i dont see that as cheating at all. As for cutting, barging, etc it's disgraceful, and anyone who does it should be ashamed of themselves.

Put down the game and go play NFS. The game definitely needs proper penalty's for cutting and also ramming.

 

[Stotty]

Lowering your pp's to try and gain a better grid slot might not be cheating, but it is sad... and is against the rules for drivers wearing the GTP tag.

 

[Chunkee_Monkey]

Cannot believe PD have not brought in "lower PP start at the back." If your in a car which cannot reach max PP most forum members will either delay start which means moving over at beginning of race, or at least yeild later in the race when a max PP car approaches. So lower PP's starting at back means no delayed starts, no more moving out of the way hoping to avoid incident and no more of those who lower their PP to gain a decent grid spot.
"The i will dive bomb the corner on his inside using him to stop my slide wide tactic" needs to be dealt with, surely this can be interpreted as a rash manouever by the dive bomber and his/her car could ghost so not causing mishap to genuine racers but allowing the dive bomber the opportunity to continue sliding wide in the corner and hopefully ruining their race.
As for the corner/grass cutters all that really needs is a longer/slower penalty while under ghost.
Unfortunatly even if they are able to clean up the online racing, there will always be those who will look to exploit the game by cheating to the detriment of those of us who wish/try to race clean and friendly

 

[BolgOfThe North]

It is a real shame there is no penalty for cutting that corner because it does ruin the race, you get a penalty for cutting the last chicane at Suzuka so why not at Fuji? Although speaking of Suzuka nothing annoys me more than the idiots that cut across the grass between the first & second corner, they don't really gain that much of an advantage so I'm not even sure why it annoys me so much I guess its just not in the spirit of the game to take such a divertion off the track, then my priority changes from try to win the race fairly to try and knock him into a gravel pit.

 

[888 Tuning]

If you can tune a car to be competetive at 2 points lower PP than your opposition then this is a racing advantage and you should be free to exploit it. If you can achieve this and get pole position then why not take advantage of it?
Its a tactic. Like putting uber sticky rubber on your car for qualifying IRL even though you know on race tyres you dont have the goods to win.... its a gamble and if you can make it pay off then I applaud you.

If this upsets you.. then you should look at your car setup... cause if you cannot catch and beat a car that has less PP than you, in a 10 lap race.. then you most definately wouldnt have beat them if they went the full 700pp.

Its racing .. not gentlemenly driving round a circuit saying "... no no after you please... "
If the lesser pp car will not be competetive with the other cars, it will be soon left behind after a lap or two.

By the logic shown here I am not entitled to take a car to Fuji and race it if I cant tune it to exactly 700PP ?? Some cars will get very close say 690PP and will be very competetive.

Something else completely ignored here is that not all tuning points move in a 1 point step. Sometimes the closest you can get is 699 or 701.... doesnt look like this has been considered at all in the above posts and all assumptions is that this is unsporting behaviour.

There is more to racecraft than simply getting in your car and driving it fast.... there is also more to tuning a car than simply smacking it exactly on the 700PP limit.

 

[Stotty]

I've never found a car I couldn't get exactly to the PP limit by tweaking power/weight/downforce... and of course cars that max out below the pp limit for the event would be allowed.

1 or 2 pp's doesn't significantly effect performance.

Go ask any of the top level on-line drivers and they'll say the same thing... Lowering you pp's to get a front row grid slot is lame and, as I said previously, not permitted if you're carrying the GTP tag (unless you're at the max available pp rating for that specific car).

And if you haven't got the skill to race from the back then you shouldn't be starting from the front anyway.

 

[randys]

I've never found a car I couldn't get exactly to the PP limit by tweaking power/weight/downforce... and of course cars that max out below the pp limit for the event would be allowed.

1 or 2 pp's doesn't significantly effect performance.

Go ask any of the top level on-line drivers and they'll say the same thing... Lowering you pp's to get a front row grid slot is lame and, as I said previously, not permitted if you're carrying the GTP tag (unless you're at the max available pp rating for that specific car).

And if you haven't got the skill to race from the back then you shouldn't be starting from the front anyway.

thanks scotty...yes, it is lame...i dont recall but on expert races do they all line up side by side, forgot...i especially like it when someone rams me and i get the penalty i wouldnt mind but usually happens when i am having good time

i am trying now to figure out which cars on which tracks in pro physics are easiest to drive applying the least amount of traction control on set up...with most of them spinning out with the slightest acceleration, i clearly need some help figuring it out

 

[888 Tuning]

thanks scotty...yes, it is lame...i dont recall but on expert races do they all line up side by side, forgot...i especially like it when someone rams me and i get the penalty i wouldnt mind but usually happens when i am having good time

i am trying now to figure out which cars on which tracks in pro physics are easiest to drive applying the least amount of traction control on set up...with most of them spinning out with the slightest acceleration, i clearly need some help figuring it out

I've never found a car I couldn't get exactly to the PP limit by tweaking power/weight/downforce... and of course cars that max out below the pp limit for the event would be allowed.

1 or 2 pp's doesn't significantly effect performance.

Go ask any of the top level on-line drivers and they'll say the same thing... Lowering you pp's to get a front row grid slot is lame and, as I said previously, not permitted if you're carrying the GTP tag (unless you're at the max available pp rating for that specific car).

And if you haven't got the skill to race from the back then you shouldn't be starting from the front anyway.

You both much such compelling arguments. . .

Stotty, let me take the car I happen to be driving this morning the 599 and want to race at Fuji PP700.
To tune this car with R3 tyres and Min weight I have a choice of either 699 or 701.
To get the perfect 700 I need to add 80kg of weight then up the horsepower.
..not really a good tune for a car like the 599.

So this means I have a choice of racing with a good tune at 699 and being labelled as "lame" and shunned by the GT community or turning the car into a wallowing non competetive whale to be accepted? Sounds like some good logic happening here. 👎👎

 

[SteveO1965]

You both much such compelling arguments. . .

Stotty, let me take the car I happen to be driving this morning the 599 and want to race at Fuji PP700.
To tune this car with R3 tyres and Min weight I have a choice of either 699 or 701.
To get the perfect 700 I need to add 80kg of weight then up the horsepower.
..not really a good tune for a car like the 599.

So this means I have a choice of racing with a good tune at 699 and being labelled as "lame" and shunned by the GT community or turning the car into a wallowing non competetive whale to be accepted? Sounds like some good logic happening here. 👎👎

Even though i always race at the stated PP i have this exact same problem with the S2000 at Daytona, the perfect tune is 799PP but i then have to add weight and power to get it to 800PP, it does not sound much but it does make a difference.

 

[888 Tuning]

Even though i always race at the stated PP i have this exact same problem with the S2000 at Daytona, the perfect tune is 799PP but i then have to add weight and power to get it to 800PP, it does not sound much but it does make a difference.

Yup.. and I have seen this with quite a few different cars as well... While I dont drop PP JUST to be on the front row, I think its unfair that people be judged and forced to tune a car differently from what maybe optimum for that car at that track and PP level.

Unless you can have bumpersticker that reads "Im really not running 699pp to get on the front row... its actually because the car wont allow me to hit the perfect 700.. so really sorry but please dont hate me" ... then people are instantly going to think you are running less PP to gain pole... and thus.. are lame and if you run the GTP flag are in voilation of the rules.. apparantly.

 

[Stotty]

Stotty, let me take the car I happen to be driving this morning the 599 and want to race at Fuji PP700.
To tune this car with R3 tyres and Min weight I have a choice of either 699 or 701.
To get the perfect 700 I need to add 80kg of weight then up the horsepower.
..not really a good tune for a car like the 599.

Even though i always race at the stated PP i have this exact same problem with the S2000 at Daytona, the perfect tune is 799PP but i then have to add weight and power to get it to 800PP, it does not sound much but it does make a difference.

I guess in those 2 particular cases it's just unlucky... might be that the perfect tune is 1pp less than the max, but the rule wasn't set up to penalise that, the rule was set up to stop people using cars like the GTLM at 749pp.

So although you might be being honourable, unfortunately you get tarred with the same brush as the lameo's.

 

[niky]

Lowering your pp's to try and gain a better grid slot might not be cheating, but it is sad... and is against the rules for drivers wearing the GTP tag.

Whose rules? Site rules or just generally accepted by a bunch of guys here on the forum?

I don't see anything wrong with playing around with PPs. In fact, sometimes I'm online for four or five races in a row, playing the PPs up and down, seeing how low I can get them while remaining competitive.

I don't think I'm lame for doing so... especially since I don't contest corners when a faster guy pulls up alongside me, I don't ram people off the track, and I don't do shortcuts.

It's an invigorating challenge to run a car that's got less power or more weight than the rest of the field... a test of skill to stay clear of everyone else or to hold off a better car. (15 points below the cap is just so much fun... )

Racing... real racing... is all about the unfair advantage. If all you care about is winning, you're constantly tweaking your set-up to be faster than the other guy... or tweaking it so you have a more predictable car... or a car with more power that can hold up better handling cars in the corners and put some distance on them on the straights... or sacrificing power for grid position. I don't believe in taking shortcuts... but I'm not going to hold myself against a rigid ideal PP, given that the PP system isn't perfect, in any case. That said... I do race at full PPs every now and then, just to see how much work it is to catch up with and pass the guy in first... all while holding to the gentleman's rules of conduct... no shunting, no ramming, and clean racing. (when I do shunt another guy, I pull over and let him pass...)

It makes more sense to run multi-make races and adjust PP limits for each car based on performance over a number of races, or do like you guys do and just race the exact same car. But for those of us playing "out in the wild", I don't see any dishonor in playing around with them.

 

[888 Tuning]

I hear you Niky..... but if you read the OLR you will see an amendment that clearly states you (as a GTP member) must meet the maximum PP specified by the race or event.

There is valid reasons for not meeting this, as mentioned above, but as this rule is rather general it does not provision for car tunes that are 1pp above or below scenarios.

Either it is an oversight, or its intentional to disallow a tune that cannot meet the perfect PP.

.. and Stotty, you are quite correct.... regardless of it being "legit" in the sense of the tune limitations we will be tarred.

 

[niky]

Ah.... that's for the official OLRs. For that, I wholeheartedly agree. 👍

But for free races outside of official events, i see no harm in PP-tweaking.

 

[Stotty]

Rule posted here.... https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3511237&postcount=3

Just a general point... the rule isn't there to penalise the guys who are using lower PP's to create a challenge, or because 1pp less than max is the optimal tune, it's there to prevent people from running 1pp less just to get a better grid slot.

But for those of us playing "out in the wild", I don't see any dishonor in playing around with them.

If you're 'out in the wild' and not using a GTP tag you can do what you want, but if you're starting on a GTP published time slot and using a GTP tag then you abide by the rules... whether you like them or not.

 

[Jack]

N:
When racing or entering GTPlanet's social or competitive race meetings, all drivers are expected to meet the Performance Point criteria. This means setting your car to the maximum PP in social events (unless stated otherwise), or setting your car to a specific PP in competitive events (unless stated otherwise).

The reason this has been added into the OLR is to stop people from manipulating the PP system to gain an unfair advantage. If you are racing with or without a tag, on GTP competitive or social events, we ask you to abide with the OLR. If you dont like them, feel free to run off GTP times 👍

 

[niky]

Rule posted here.... https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3511237&postcount=3

Just a general point... the rule isn't there to penalise the guys who are using lower PP's to create a challenge, or because 1pp less than max is the optimal tune, it's there to prevent people from running 1pp less just to get a better grid slot.

If you're 'out in the wild' and not using a GTP tag you can do what you want, but if you're starting on a GTP published time slot and using a GTP tag then you abide by the rules... whether you like them or not.

Understood. Wouldn't have argued the point if I'd known this was for OLR and GTP-specific events.