Gamepads VS Elite Mode VS Your Ego

[senzr]

First off, if you're playing Shift 2 on a gamepad/DS3, ELITE MODE IS NOT FOR YOU.

Too many folks have been complaining about how Shift 2 handles on a pad with the Elite physics mode, and I was one of them. And it's been said many, many times by others here: TURN ON STEERING ASSIST.

What, you say? Steering assists?? God forbid, this is GT Planet! Home of the most hardcore console driving sim players on the, uh....planet!! We don't use assists! Traction control is for losers! Skid recovery force? Are you frickin' kidding me??!!

Well, after hours of struggling with Shift 2 on a HKS Racing Controller and trying to keep the car on the road for more than 5 seconds at a time, I told my ego to take a hike. I went into the options menu, and under Elite mode, 'Steering Assist' was grayed out. No problem, I thought. I'll just turn down the physics a notch to 'Pro'. Still greyed out. Hmmm. One more down to 'Experienced'? Nope. Deep breath...I went all the way down to NOVICE mode. And turned Steering Assist on, but everything else off except for ABS.

Now, I think I'm as hardcore as they come when it comes to driving sims. I also play with a G25, but the HKS controller is for those days when I'm lazy to set everything up (which is a lot of the time). I use the clutch, h-gate shifter and heel & toe with the G25. I switch the shifter around from left to right, depending on the car cockpit. I literally forced myself to learn to shift with my other hand for a more authentic experience. I also take my car to the track whenever I can, so I do have some real world track time to judge a driving sim against.

So back to my point, I think Elite mode is meant for players with wheels. Shift 2 is still very forgiving in terms of physics compared to GT5, but it's a lot of fun with a wheel, and more importantly, PLAYABLE.

If you're stuck playing with a pad, just swallow your ego AND TURN STEERING ASSISTS ON. Yes, the game is still damn near unplayable with steering sensitivity down to zero. Yes, they should smooth out the steering inputs for pads so that you're not countersteering all the time to keep the car on the road. But you know what? THEY ALREADY DID and it's called STEERING ASSIST. All this talk of a patch for pad users will probably be nothing more than steering assist as it already exists, simply hidden under Elite mode. Without steering assists, there's no way you can make the constant minute steering corrections required to stay on the track without a wheel.

Anyhow, if you're a hardcore sim racer guy, what are you doing driving with a pad in the first place?? And what are you doing playing Shift 2?? Saying Shift 2 is a sim is like saying David Fincher's "The Social Network" was what really happened with Facebook. Sure, it's a hell of a lotta fun. But you gotta take its interpretation of 'reality' with a huge pinch of salt. That's what Shift 2 is. A really fun dramatization of driving fast cars.

So, maybe it's time some of you pad players do what I did. Sit your hardcore sim racer ego down, have a chat and tell him to take a hike whenever you fire up Shift 2.

Then turn Steering Assist on and have some fun.

 

[Mulan]

First off, if you're playing Shift 2 on a gamepad/DS3, ELITE MODE IS NOT FOR YOU.

Yes, the game is still damn near unplayable with steering sensitivity down to zero. Yes, they should smooth out the steering inputs for pads so that you're not countersteering all the time to keep the car on the road. But you know what? THEY ALREADY DID and it's called STEERING ASSIST. All this talk of a patch for pad users will probably be nothing more than steering assist as it already exists, simply hidden under Elite mode. Without steering assists, there's no way you can make the constant minute steering corrections required to stay on the track without a wheel.

Liked your story 👍
I like to play Elite. And regarding countersteer..i feel stiffening the suspension and lowering ridehight is a different story. Its like its simulating slow springs like when car rolls back from one side to the other. I actually like it, and when i stiffen them up it feels totally different. And setting steering sens to 0 makes it more like laggy, so dont use 0, use above 8 or 9 to get better feel.
But actually ill try with steering assist on just to see if it makes it better to campare, my ego is long gone after i played GT5 with assists on in the beginning as i felt many cars were undrivable, now its different story (except Elise Runway test)

 

[Le Mans 88]

I'll give Elite one more shot but if I still cannot race naturally I'll try driving assist.

 

[bmwisme]

VERY well said senzr! You may have hit the nail on the head for most of the complainers.

 

[strideur]

I was able to turn on steering assist with elite mode handling. It certainly helped with the wobbliness. Are you sure you had to go down to novice to turn it on?

I'll look again. Maybe we're talking about 2 separate options here.

 

[senzr]

Are you sure you had to go down to novice to turn it on?

Yeah, it wouldn't let me turn on steering assist in the other physics modes. That's why it was such a huge hit on my ego. I'm on PS3, BTW.

I turn everything else off, though, except ABS. Full damage as well.

 

[VXR]

Pro with all but ABS turned off and some settings I was recommended feels good enough for me on a 360 pad. It's still a little too sensitive to pick a line every time, but I'm really enjoying it now.

 

[Le Mans 88]

I've seen the light, the key to driving with the DS3 is correcting the car based on the position of the steering wheel.

In GT5 you can correct the car turning lock-to-lock and not suffer any see-sawing motion.

If correcting a slide in Shift 2 with full lock you need to carefully bring the car back in line by centreing the wheel, not putting full lock in the opposite direction.

Take a car on track, drive slowly, get an idea of the relationship between your stick and wheel before upping the pace. Whenever you do have a wiggle let go of the stick to centre the wheel.

The relationship between stick and wheel is key, I can run consistent laps in-car but other views I'm all over the track.

This is with Elite phyics and no driving aids.

 

[senzr]

If correcting a slide in Shift 2 with full lock you need to carefully bring the car back in line by centreing the wheel, not putting full lock in the opposite direction.

Whenever you do have a wiggle let go of the stick to centre the wheel

Very good point. I kinda got my head around that centering concept, but the steering movements required are SOOOOO small. And I'm using the HKS controller, mind you. It's got a thumb wheel that has a lot more throw (and accuracy) than the analog stick.

You got some mad skillz with the thumb stick, but I ain't got the patience. Also, it's probably cos we're all so used to how GT5 reacts with full-on opposite lock on the stick. Another reason why I'm convinced Elite mode is for wheels only.

 

[strideur]

Yeah, it wouldn't let me turn on steering assist in the other physics modes. That's why it was such a huge hit on my ego. I'm on PS3, BTW.

I turn everything else off, though, except ABS. Full damage as well.

I just checked and you're right. I was thinking about stability control. I've been toying with that and it helps a lot with the slippery feeling but I'm not sure if it's slowing me down or not.

My times are pretty much the same with it on or off, but with it on the driving is much more enjoyable. Setting the steering sensitivity to between 25 and 35 made the biggest difference though.

 

[senzr]

I was thinking about stability control.

Try it with stability control off, and steering assist on. It just makes the minor steering corrections for you, so you don't have to fight to keep the car on the road. If you use helmet cam or the cockpit view, you can actually see the hands making slight steering corrections which would be a real pain to do on a stick or thumb wheel.

I haven't tried stability control, so I'm not sure how it's different.

 

[Sprite]

I must admit I have to say this, Friday I got Shift 2 spent 40 minutes installing changed the settings (music, speech ect.) and then took 3 turns at Suzuka Short, turned it off and deleted the save file and data file.

Sunday afternoon I decided to try again on my dads PS3 and after looking at some settings I tried to race, still no luck but then I had a brainwave I turned the settings to Elite and turned off the force feedback in advanced settings and low and behold it's tons better. I'm even only a second or two behind my friends who are using wheels and have faster cars.

So I would say playing Elite with a pad is fine. Just turn off force feedback.

 

[strtgng]

I too bit the bullet and turned on the steering assist...which helps a lot. I am still having a hard time understanding the steering sensitivity option in relation to the steering assist. How do they work together?

 

[senzr]

I am still having a hard time understanding the steering sensitivity option in relation to the steering assist. How do they work together?

Steering assist makes small corrections for you to straighten the car out.

Steering sensitivity is how responsive the game is to your inputs. The higher the value, the more responsive (or twitchy) it will feel. Lower values help to smooth out inputs on a pad. I've settled on 20% for now. On a wheel, I use 50% steering sensitivity, meaning that the steering response is linear no matter how fast the wheel is turned, much like a real car.

 

[strtgng]

Steering assist makes small corrections for you to straighten the car out.

Steering sensitivity is how responsive the game is to your inputs. The higher the value, the more responsive (or twitchy) it will feel. Lower values help to smooth out inputs on a pad. I've settled on 20% for now. On a wheel, I use 50% steering sensitivity, meaning that the steering response is linear no matter how fast the wheel is turned, much like a real car.

Brilliant....thank you! So throttle and brake sensitivity works the same way, i'd imagine.

 

[UkHardcore23]

Im using Elite mode with no assists on a 360 pad Totally no need for steering assist, once cars are upgraded and tuned the handling is spot on...too many whiners these days.

Anyway not sure these settings will work for the DS but on 360 they are working like a dream for many....

Steering Dead Zone: 3 <-- Key Change
Accelerator Dead Zone: 5
Brake Dead Zone: 5
Steering Sensitivity: 50 <-- MOST CRITICAL CHANGE
Acceleration Sensitivity: 50
Braking Sensitivity: 50
Speed Steering Sensitivity: 100

 

[Le Mans 88]

What I said above is absolutely key to enjoying this game not adjusting settings.

I'm now sliding the car in controlled drifts, dealing with quick directional changes with ease and can feel the great physics engine.

Yesterday I was struggling to keep the car on the road and still am if I cannot see the wheel.

 

[RWB1213]

Im using Elite mode with no assists on a 360 pad Totally no need for steering assist, once cars are upgraded and tuned the handling is spot on...too many whiners these days.

Anyway not sure these settings will work for the DS but on 360 they are working like a dream for many....

Steering Dead Zone: 3 <-- Key Change
Accelerator Dead Zone: 5
Brake Dead Zone: 5
Steering Sensitivity: 50 <-- MOST CRITICAL CHANGE
Acceleration Sensitivity: 50
Braking Sensitivity: 50
Speed Steering Sensitivity: 100

Agreed. I'm running XB360 w/controller, no aids (elite), and controller settings default- AI on Hard. Stock cars are difficult to hand a the limit, upgraded cars settle in nicely. The game is much more rewarding with assists off than either GT5 or FM3. I still don't understand everyone calling GT5 or FM3 more realistic (handling) than Shift 2. How many of these folks have driven a 600hp monster on a legit racing circuit? How many of these critics could get the car around on the first lap without a tank slapper in real life? In my estimation both GT5 and FM3 are unrealistically easy to drive.

 

[VXR]

Depends what 600bhp cars you're racing in FM3. The race cars are much more throttle sensitive at that power level. I'd also argue that the cars appear easier to control as it bridges the gap between simulation and controller by building in the control you'd have of a real car physically with the steering assist, which is not a bad thing to have on the pad.

You also have to accept that those who drive 600bhp cars on track tend not to have many tankslappers themselves, either.

 

[senzr]

I still don't think Shift 2 is very realistic physics-wise. You can brake so late into corners, and turning while braking does little to produce understeer because the tires hardly feel like they're overloaded. There's hardly any benefit to releasing the brake gradually to regain steering grip while straightening out the wheel. Mashing the throttle on exiting the corner in a RWD ride hardly causes fishtailing.

My point is that the physics hardly seem realistic, so I'm not gonna beat myself up over using steering assists in a dramatized physics model like this.

That said, I totally understand those who've worked out the precision needed with the stick to keep the car on the track without Steering Assist. Maybe I'll give it a go and get some of my harcore sim racer guy ego back.

And if I don't, I know I can still have a blast driving a semi-realistic racer with semi-realistic assists.

 

[Barra333]

The relationship between stick and wheel is key, I can run consistent laps in-car but other views I'm all over the track.

Me too. Cant keep it on track from bumper cam (my view of choice in GT5). On the other hand, I'm next to useless at cockpit in GT5. Go figure.

Still messing about with sensitivity settings to get the right feel (elite handling, low TC, ABS) but have found that fine inputs on the stick are key. I find steering in this game a lot easier to overcorrect and mess up than in GT.

 

[brainfade]

If you want to use Elite physics with the DS3 pad you should use the analogue stick instead of the directional buttons

 

[pallasbr]

I agree, the problem is the EGO. I am playing the game since last Saturday and kept fighting against the DS3 pad until today's morning. So I made the "outrageous" decision to use the steering assist (everything else off).
In the first try I thought was playing a completely different game. It was shocking! At my 3rd try, I noticed that was getting a better lap time and, why not, having much more fun.
The best thing noticed was that the steering assist is not miraculous: most of the time, I still need to compensate the understeering (when entering a corner too fast) or oversteering. Of course, the assist helps me compensating, but I am still the guy behind the wheels (the gamepad in this case ).

PS.: for class D and C cars, I think that steering assist is not necessary (if you enjoy a not-so-easy-ride). But from A and B classes, well, the assist helps a lot!

 

[TheDabbinDave]

Why would turning FFB affect steering with the sticks?

 

[senzr]

The best thing noticed was that the steering assist is not miraculous

Yes, exactly! The steering assist is NOT autopilot, like some other games. You can still make huge mistakes, and the intervention is quite passive. Almost like sport traction control settings in some real life sports cars that allow some slip before cutting the power. As far as I can tell, it only smoothens out the wobbliness, so you don't have to make the corrections yourself.

 

[UkHardcore23]

If you want to use Elite physics with the DS3 pad you should use the analogue stick instead of the directional buttons

Do people still use the D-Pad this day n age?

 

[Luminis]

Excuse me, but what's the problem with elite handling and using a pad?
Or is it just an issue with the PS3 version?

 

[paytonlow]

Excuse me, but what's the problem with elite handling and using a pad?
Or is it just an issue with the PS3 version?

Have no idea, but certainly not on PC with XBOX 360 Controller

 

[brambos]

Excuse me, but what's the problem with elite handling and using a pad?
Or is it just an issue with the PS3 version?

On PS3, once you enable steering assist the handling becomes much more stable and removes a lot of 'wobble' (as in: easier to drive a straight line and more accurately take corners).

It removes most of the 'floatiness' people keep complaining about.

 

[Luminis]

On PS3, once you enable steering assist the handling becomes much more stable and removes a lot of 'wobble' (as in: easier to drive a straight line and more accurately take corners).

It removes most of the 'floatiness' people keep complaining about.

Sounds like what I came too expect from the DS3. It's not that bad in GT5, but I never liked that controlelr for racing games...