General consensus on online tuning ?

[bigberry]

To expand on the title I was wondering if among the forum there is a best practice when tuning a car online. As the cars behave differently with fuel and tyre wear.A tune that works offline can behave different online.

Would a car tuned completely online work offline ?

Do people automatically change the ride height or springs etc when first taking a tune online. Eg when adjusting brakes I start at 6/4 and adjust from there.

I hope my question is somewhat understandable .

 

[zero_speed]

Cars tuned online work offline in most situations, but not the other way around. Certain tracks exhibit a more dramatic change from offline to online, biggest offenders are Laguna and Suzuka. Tuning online is no different than offline, just the settings will vary.

 

[CyKosis1973]

Be aware of Grip Reduction as well. Some people set it to Real for online racing, if you haven't had a quick blast with it turned on yourself, you could be in for a shock the first time you mount a curb..!!

 

[bigberry]

I always put it to real so thats fine.

 

[Motor City Hami]

I'm still torn on the subject of online vs. offline tunes. Some of my tunes work equally as well in both spaces. I have even made tunes specifically for online, but join a full room and it seems to act differently. I am wondering if some of the issues with online tunes has something to do with connection speeds? Could there be a slight bit of lag from full rooms that affects the speed that our inputs are reaching the car?

Just a thought.

 

[CSLACR]

A proper offline tune won't make it around a corner online in any of the cars I've tested, a proper online tune will typically under-steer offline, the difference being, under-steer is driveable, a car that spins at the slightest steering input online is not.

I see them as totally separate, neither works well for the other, just online tunes can still make it around the track respectably offline.

 

[madmyk]

Are there any suggestions as to the settings? Lower LSD perhaps, more front sway bar? Anything like that? Or is this a black box, no patterns?

 

[bigberry]

Thanks for the replies.

I am in the process of tuning some cars and if I can get half a dozen tunes I might start a garage here .

So am I better off tuning for offline ? or compromise for both ?

I dont race online much mostly just cruise lobbies, but maybe online tunes would be per request at certain pp levels I guess.. 500, 600, pp

 

[zero_speed]

Thanks for the replies.

I am in the process of tuning some cars and if I can get half a dozen tunes I might start a garage here .

So am I better off tuning for offline ? or compromise for both ?

I dont race online much mostly just cruise lobbies, but maybe online tunes would be per request at certain pp levels I guess.. 500, 600, pp

Well it depends on what you want to offer as a garage. Nothing wrong with doing "fun" tunes for offline, or serious online racers, the best part is the choice is yours.

 

[CSLACR]

Are there any suggestions as to the settings? Lower LSD perhaps, more front sway bar? Anything like that? Or is this a black box, no patterns?

No, there is no simple answer for what needs done, the best way is an entire suspension revision, with slight modifications to stabilize the car in every area, rather than one setting set to an extreme.
LSD is entirely driver preference, with a wheel I find lower LSD helps in pretty much any car, to a point, as spinning just the inside tire doesn't result in a full spin as easily, whereas higher LSD settings will increase straight-line traction, but when cornering, it will snap you around quicker than you can blink.
So it pretty much depends how early you start on the throttle coming out of turns.

 

[nomis3613]

Do you guys have different tuning techniques for online? For example, if a car has exit understeer offline you might increase X. But for the same situation online, you increase Y.

I am wondering if (along with the physics differences) there is a difference in how cars react to changes in settings?

 

[Highlandor]

To expand on the title I was wondering if among the forum there is a best practice when tuning a car online. As the cars behave differently with fuel and tyre wear.A tune that works offline can behave different online.

Would a car tuned completely online work offline ?

Do people automatically change the ride height or springs etc when first taking a tune online. Eg when adjusting brakes I start at 6/4 and adjust from there.

I hope my question is somewhat understandable .

Online Vs Offline

Firstly - the term "works" is subjective.

Some people willl view this as being a car that is driveable, others will view this as being a car that is as quick as any other, if it's driveable but slow - then to them, it doesn't "work".

So everyone needs to define what their opinion / view of "works" is.

For me, a ONLINE setups that "works" is a setup that enable drivers of different skill levels / experience to complete a race without any major incident happening from the setup - i.e massive oversteer / understeer, tyre wear so bad you have no tyes left.

Some offline and online tunes can "work" (i.e. be driveable) in both situations, BUT the chances for this happening for all cars in all situations is very, very small - so small it's not even worth trying to either achieve or comprehend. Also, the chances of this setup being anywhere near the best setup is also extremely remote, it may happen on a few occaisions, but with 1000+ cars, how many tracks, tyres and PP levels - it's extremely unlikely a setup for one will be best for another..

Best to take each seperately.

Onine Tuning ALL Cars

Again, a "best practice" is subjective. I know alot of guys who are very good drivers - they run stock / default setups for nearly all cars from 400pp "Historic" road cars to Le Mans cars giving out 6-700bhp - they are as fast and competitive in online racing as guys I now who can setup a car online pretty good.

This shows that driving skill / experience can play a part in what "works" online, as much as setups. BUT, give these guys a good setup, and they are even faster with better tyre wear - so this also shows that a good setup can help and be more beneficial than a stock setup.

Which leads to the most important point here (for racing online):

It's all about the individual and what you're faced with - different variables can obtain the same objective i.e. something that "works" online.

However, there is also a rough correlation between skill / knowledge, setup and end result online.

Good driver - default setup = OK online
Medium driver - good setup = OK online
Good driver - bad setup or wrong setup = you're fish food
Medium driver - bad setup or wrong setup = you're fish food
Bad driver - any setup from bad to "perfect" = you're fish food

A good driver is someone who trial brakes, feathers the throttle and uses the throttle, brakes and steering to overcome setup issues / deficiences.

i.e. a car that is very loose under braking, someone running default brakes but applying both brake and throttle at the same time (but in correct way) can balance the car under braking as good as another person "tuning" the brakes.

A bad driver is someone who treats GT5 online like Prologue beginner or intermediate - on there, being very aggressive with the wheel rewarded alot of cars. Do that on GT5 online, you're fish food (unless you're running MARIOKART regulations - low PP, racing softs, no tyre wear, driving aids on etc etc etc).

This is very basic, there are so many options for race regulations online it's difficult, or almost impossible to be specific for all.


Where to start

The regulations for the race you're about to enter and car you're thinking of using. Very important.

550pp road car at Spa - a setup for sports soft tyres is going to be different for the same race / car combo if you're using RACING softs.

A setup for a MR car is likely to be different to a 4WD car, and different again between the two tyre compounds mentioned above.

Then, change the regualtions (tyre wear off / on) and the setup changes AGAIN.

Change the laps from 3 - 6 and if tyre wear is on, then, yep, gotta change setup again.

Keep whatever regulations are in the room, change the track - yep, you guessed it, chances are you gotta change the setup, albiet, anything from a "tweak" to a complete change.

As mentioned first - what "works" is subjective and driving skill / experience can overcome this. But there are so many guys in random lobbys (and evn forums / websites) who don't truely understand online setups it's safer to assume more know less than those you know alot, for most situations.

One Setup for all?

Yes....and er....no...

What I mean by this is:

You can have a CORE setup (Springs, dampers and roll bars) that you then build a setup around (ride height, LSD, toe, camber and brakes) that "works" and makes a car driveable online for pretty much all cars in all situations.

I know, I've seen it hundreds of times for all kinds of different variables and know it works. I also know hundreds of guys (from normal members to Mods, admins and site owners) from diifferent websites (GTRP, GTSC, HaB, GTHQ, PureGT, GTDrivers etc etc) who will also tell you - it "works" to.

BUT - to make this work, you need to understand what is needed in what situaiton. For instance, as mentioned above - take the same rules, regulations, track etc etc for a race and use a MR road car and then a 4wd - chances are the core part of the setup can be very similiar, but the rest will be likely be diferent.

Why use the same CORE part of a setup??

Because it gives fundamental balance and stability into a car - much more so than default / stock setups and guestmated setups for the 1000's of variables / regualtions / cars that could be raced online.

If you had to tune 100 cars for 100 different situations - doing it this way (using a balanced CORE) you'll be finished quickly, doing it by testing / guesing you''ll' still be here going round in circles and unfinished when Gran Turismo 10 comes out.

The trick is knowing how to utilise the other aspects of the setup to work with the "core" to make a car driveable and work for each situation you're faced with.

Talking "stereotypes" here:

Car type - MR usually oversteer, 4WD usually understeer.
Power / grip relationship - low pp car racing tyres - set car to be loose, high pp / sports tyres - set car for stability / grip.

Just these different variables will mean the ride height, camber, LSD, toe will be quite different, BUT, you can run similiar CORE settings (springs, dampers and roll bars). These can remain quite similiar - either in numerical terms or in % terms, whereas the rest will have greater differences between them for each variable.

There's alot more to consider aswell - but to be honest, to write it all out in a way that everyone understands and works in all situations, for all people of all skill and experience levels - pffft... I'd be here for years....

Need coffee and cigarette to kick start my heart...

Best of luck - if you want any specific help, send me PM - I can sort you out (online) no problemo...

👍

 

[MrGrado]

Online and offline are basically the same as far as I'm concerned in terms of how the cars drive and behave.

I have noticed a few small differences though. Online is more simplified than offline. There is very little feedback through the steering wheel, the car pitches and rolls less, less steering lock is needed overall, the car doesn't get airborne or bounce about as bad and you can smash a hard tuned car over curbs online which you can't do offline.

With the car not rolling over onto it's side tires and less feedback given through the wheel, sometimes it's easier to spin a car online and you can spin your car in the strangest places online that just are zero risk areas of a circuit offline, like the exit of the carousel on the 'ring.

The way I drive laps offline and online is basically the same and lap times are basically the same too. I suspect the physics are very very similar for both online and offline, just with online being trimmed back a little for bandwidth requirements.

 

[mef]

Mrgrado, I've recently prepared offline for the endurance race at lacuna seca that is about to happen. Unaware of differences between offline vs online at the time I did not practice or refine setup online. Boy was I in for a surprise come qualifying time. The car in question was a Mazda 787b. My setup offline was very similar to stock. Lowered the car to suit and adjusted brakes and gear ratios. Best time offline was 1'16.200, with average times being around 1'17 odd. So I was confident I could qualify online around 1.17... When I did go online for qualifying I was in for a shock. Tyre degradation was massive. Grip levels especially at corner exit seemed a fair bit lower. I practiced a few laps and struggled to keep it on the road. This after having practiced offline for 1hr, a full race length basically with times around 1'17 each lap, degrading to 1'18 at the end of each stin which lasted 8 laps usually. I ended up qualifying 1'19 flat or thereabouts. I was glad I did not spin off.. So basically almost three seconds slower than my best offline and two secs slower than my average. After this 'experience' I headed to the forums to find this thread. So I can definitely confirm that there is a major difference as far as tyre wear goes offline and online. Tyres used were racing hard, in case that contributes to the discussion.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Mrgrado, I've recently prepared offline for the endurance race at lacuna seca that is about to happen. Unaware of differences between offline vs online at the time I did not practice or refine setup online. Boy was I in for a surprise come qualifying time. The car in question was a Mazda 787b. My setup offline was very similar to stock. Lowered the car to suit and adjusted brakes and gear ratios. Best time offline was 1'16.200, with average times being around 1'17 odd. So I was confident I could qualify online around 1.17... When I did go online for qualifying I was in for a shock. Tyre degradation was massive. Grip levels especially at corner exit seemed a fair bit lower. I practiced a few laps and struggled to keep it on the road. This after having practiced offline for 1hr, a full race length basically with times around 1'17 each lap, degrading to 1'18 at the end of each stin which lasted 8 laps usually. I ended up qualifying 1'19 flat or thereabouts. I was glad I did not spin off.. So basically almost three seconds slower than my best offline and two secs slower than my average. After this 'experience' I headed to the forums to find this thread. So I can definitely confirm that there is a major difference as far as tyre wear goes offline and online. Tyres used were racing hard, in case that contributes to the discussion.

That sums it up pretty well for me. Cars that are at the limit of tire performance and power really bring out the physics differences online vs. offline. It's not so apparent when running 450PP on SS tires as it is with 650PP on just about any tire with various different effects in between.

 

[Highlandor]

Agree with above 2 posts - play "mariokart" regulations online then you won't feel much difference. Bang up the PP (alot), reduce the grip (alot), do much longer races and apply this to diffferent cars and tracks etc and you'll see the difference.

But, once you'e sussed nline tuning and know how to make a car balanced and stable, that gap narrows again.

It's weird, but different people at diferent levels will see or feel different about this, depending on what you know and what you're used to in the game.