Global Warming/Climate Change Discussion Thread

[TexRex]

(Women causes less emissions than men)

I'm a light sleeper and I know for a fact that this is false. We men just don't try as hard to conceal it during waking hours.

 

[Liquid]

Another case of climate change vs global warming misusage.

I mean, I can only hope it's a joke but somehow I bet there's quite the element of seriousness in it.

 

[Standard_FV]

Yes, but the manufacturers would push back. There's a recent case involving Unilever and the recycling of clear plastic that I'll have to look up for the details.

Of course they would but it would be interesting to see what the effects would be.

Yes, but "essential" enterprises and manufacturers would push back.

We have a system like this in Sweden now where currently(every government seems to slightly alter it) purely electric cars get discounted 60 000 sek(6000€) cars below a certain emission gets tax reduction and cars above it gets a higher tax. Doesn't really work since it only applies to private buyers and not company cars which represents a big part of buyers. Private buyers already bought smaller cars beforehand and many people buy an electric vehicle and instantly sell it in Norway since they pay good money(≈35% richer per person than Sweden) for a 3 month old electric vehicle.

I thought that was a false correlation caused by inequality of working hours/types?

Women had higher C02 emission when comparing household chores but used cars less frequently and tended to be more prone to recycle but this was conducted in Europe and more equal countires (Sweden, Norway) tended to have a lesser gap between men & women's C02-emission( ≈70-100% difference), men in greece had ≈350% more C02 emission than women. Also women require less food overall so they already have a huge advantage there.
http://www.wecf.eu/english/articles/2011/02/gender-climateimpact.php

someone who thinks they know the answer, and wants to demand that people comply

I see your point. Forcing people to be incentivized or making them want to reach(or avoid) something through the means of an incentive/tax is a big difference.

For example, a gasoline tax would be far more effective and direct for helping the environment than a requirement that automakers meet fleet-wide MPG limits.

I fully agree. Of course even the environmental party in Sweden doesn't realize basic things like this and are applying the wrong means to decrease C02 emissions(Sweden recently implemented a flight tax incorporated in the ticket, but it was concluded to not work since it didn't really do anything other than cause problems, not making airlines wanting to become greener and because around 90% of domestic flights are done by company employees which can afford a 5% ticket increase).

 

[Danoff]

I fully agree. Of course even the environmental party in Sweden doesn't realize basic things like this and are applying the wrong means to decrease C02 emissions(Sweden recently implemented a flight tax incorporated in the ticket, but it was concluded to not work since it didn't really do anything other than cause problems, not making airlines wanting to become greener and because around 90% of domestic flights are done by company employees which can afford a 5% ticket increase).

That's part of tuning the tax. The philosophical theory is that you're necessarily going to cause damage by purchasing something (such as a flight, or fuel for, presumably, consumption), and so you're being asked to pay for that damage up front. But you don't necessarily have to tax the ticket, you can tax the fuel for airlines instead. It'll get translated into ticket prices, but that would be more consistent with the message - "use less fuel". Not "fly less".

People don't like it though. Gas taxes hit the poor first, because they have older cars, generally live further away from work, can't afford the newest ones with the highest fuel economy, and often need their cars to get to work. But guess where it's going to make the biggest difference! The poor! Because they have older cars, generally live further away from work, can't afford the newest ones with highest fuel economy, and often need their cars to get to work.

One of the things I like most about fuel taxes is that it doesn't penalize companies for making giant V8s, it penalizes you for driving that V8 40 miles to work and back every day. If it sits in your garage and only comes out for fun... great - and that's fairly consistent with the environmental message.

The biggest thing would be electricity though, not necessarily gasoline. A pollution tax on certain forms of electricity over others (such as coal) could make it harder for companies to profit with those polluting plants. Coal plants are awful. Especially the one in Salt Lake City.

 

[TexRex]

Yes, but the manufacturers would push back.

Yeesh, I must have Sam Jackson on the mind because on first reading I did not see "manufacturers".

 

[Standard_FV]

but that would be more consistent with the message - "use less fuel". Not "fly less".

Exactly, very important difference.

But guess where it's going to make the biggest difference! The poor!

I agree. Fuel costs are very high here, 2-2.5 times higher than U.S so a lot of people living in cities have gotten rid of their car(public transportation works decently and bike access is great) or only use it during summervacation etc.

One of the things I like most about fuel taxes is that it doesn't penalize companies for making giant V8s, it penalizes you for driving that V8 40 miles to work and back every day. If it sits in your garage and only comes out for fun... great - and that's fairly consistent with the environmental message.

Too bad owning a car is expensive over here, tax alone would be 3-8 times higher for a V8 than regular car depending on emissions. Second hand cars older than 30 years is the way to go for a car enthusiast- no tax and special "veteran" insurance(very cheap).

 

[Strittan]

About the climate change and what to do about it, it’s already too late, unless the whole world goes hardcore communist, like, right now.

 

[Rallywagon]

About the climate change and what to do about it, it’s already too late, unless the whole world goes hardcore communist, like, right now.

Too late how?

 

[Strittan]

Too late how?

We buy way too much **** and we travel way too much, be it on vacation or to/from work. With ”we” mean us people in the western society.

Check this out: http://www.worldometers.info/

Scroll through that site and you have the proof. For example, 148,000 cars have been produced so far, TODAY! That’s just ONE example.

We messed up, and it’s too late to do anything about it, because people wanna keep buying new cars, new cellular phones, eat fast food, go on vacation, get a bigger house, get another car, and so on.

I’m not saying this to be pessimistic or anything. It’s just the way it is.

 

[Danoff]

We buy way too much **** and we travel way too much, be it on vacation or to/from work. With ”we” mean us people in the western society.

Check this out: http://www.worldometers.info/

Scroll through that site and you have the proof. For example, 148,000 cars have been produced so far, TODAY! That’s just ONE example.

We messed up, and it’s too late to do anything about it, because people wanna keep buying new cars, new cellular phones, eat fast food, go on vacation, get a bigger house, get another car, and so on.

I’m not saying this to be pessimistic or anything. It’s just the way it is.

You mean standard of living increases? That comes with added technological growth. You don't start building a fusion reactor unless you go through some development. Fossil fuels got us here, and as a result we have a chance to go a lot farther.

 

[Strittan]

You mean standard of living increases? That comes with added technological growth. You don't start building a fusion reactor unless you go through some development. Fossil fuels got us here, and as a result we have a chance to go a lot farther.

Not before it’s too late though, is what I’m saying.

Pretty much everything we do in the western world has an effect on the environment/climate, and that won’t change over night.

This is what people don’t get. People seem to think that we can all just get electric cars and we're fine, when in fact producing electric cars affects the environment just as much, if not more, than producing petrol driven cars. It’s not just cars either. It’s production as a whole.

As long as we consume the way we do, we’re basically ******. Well, not we perhaps, but the generations to come.

I’m no better myself, because I love to travel, I work at a factory, and cars is my passion, although I just use mine during the summer.

 

[Danoff]

As long as we consume the way we do, we’re basically ******.

Looks like a big chunk is transportation and residential and business electricity for the US actually (which is what I'd have guessed). I'm sure international shipping is bad too.

So... actually it appears that if we could greatly reduce emissions due to transportation and residential/commercial electricity (like say, with nuclear power and electric cars and trucks), we could make a drastic improvement.

 

[Strittan]

Looks like a big chunk is transportation and residential and business electricity for the US actually (which is what I'd have guessed). I'm sure international shipping is bad too.

So... actually it appears that if we could greatly reduce emissions due to transportation and residential/commercial electricity (like say, with nuclear power and electric cars and trucks), we could make a drastic improvement.

Yeah, if tomorrow when you wake up every car in the US have magically become electric, that would be an improvement. Not enough of an improvement, but yes, an improvement.

That won’t happen though.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/co2-emissions-reached-an-all-time-high-in-2018/

 

[Danoff]

Yeah, if tomorrow when you wake up every car in the US have magically become electric, that would be an improvement. Not enough of an improvement, but yes, an improvement.

It's happening faster than I ever could have expected.

 

[Strittan]

It's happening faster than I ever could have expected.

Yet the link I referred to says something else.

Don’t get me wrong. I wish with every inch of my body that everything you’ve said was true, but I just can’t see it, sorry.

 

[Danoff]

Yet the link I referred to says something else.

Don’t get me wrong. I wish with every inch of my body that everything you’ve said was true, but I just can’t see it, sorry.

I scanned the article and didn't see anything about electric cars.

 

[Strittan]

I scanned the article and didn't see anything about electric cars.

It says 2018 had record high CO2 emissions. Isn’t that what we’re talking about here?

It’s not just about cars, as I pointed out earlier. It’s about way of living. Even typing this message affects the environment.

 

[Dotini]

It says 2018 had record high CO2 emissions. Isn’t that what we’re talking about here?

It’s not just about cars, as I pointed out earlier. It’s about way of living. Even typing this message affects the environment.

Your are right. We are all doomed to die - eventually. There is nothing we can realistically do about anthropogenically caused climate change. The Chinese are opening a new coal fired plant every single day. What are we going to do, nuke the Chinese? Face it, everybody on Earth with a cellphone wants to eat meat and generally live like westerners, fly in planes and drive cars. The best thing to do in these circumstances is to kick back, drink a beer, and be humorously fatalistic about it all. Likely we will stumble into our fate in some other way than we can presently imagine, and our CO2 sins will be a minor joke along along the way.

 

[PocketZeven]

Your are right. We are all doomed to die - eventually. There is nothing we can realistically do about anthropogenically caused climate change. The Chinese are opening a new coal fired plant every single day. What are we going to do, nuke the Chinese? Face it, everybody on Earth with a cellphone wants to eat meat and generally live like westerners, fly in planes and drive cars. The best thing to do in these circumstances is to kick back, drink a beer, and be humorously fatalistic about it all. Likely we will stumble in our fate in some other way than we can presently imagine, and our CO2 sins will be minor joke along along the way.

Doing nothing for future generations though, doesnt seem like a good idea.

 

[Dotini]

Doing nothing for future generations though, doesnt seem like a good idea.

What future generations? Is there something inherently good about future generations? If so, why have developed western populations stopped reproducing at a net replacement rate or better? Why have we saddled future generations with sustainable, un-payoffable debt? Why have we allowed proliferation of nuclear weapons, die-off of fish populations and pollution of fresh water and oceanic water? It seems reasonable to conclude the human race is bent on waste and self-destruction, and nothing can stop it.

 

[PocketZeven]

What future generations? Is there something inherently good about future generations? If so, why have developed western populations stopped reproducing at a net replacement rate or better? Why have we saddled future generations with sustainable, un-payoffable debt? Why have we allowed proliferation of nuclear weapons, die-off of fish populations and pollution of fresh water and oceanic water? It seems reasonable to conclude the human race is bent on waste and self-destruction, and nothing can stop it.

I was speaking about my children, my future grandchildren etc. People are inherently selfish, but I think most people want to make sure their grandchildren and their offspring wont struggle, because your own generation knew about it and did nothing at all.

All the things you listed are because of shortterm thinking and not having the foresight of climate change or disputable nature at the time. Now we do know more about it, not doing an effort to create a better environment for my future offspring would not sit right for me.

 

[Dotini]

I was speaking about my children, my future grandchildren etc. People are inherently selfish, but I think most people want to make sure their grandchildren and their offspring wont struggle, because your own generation knew about it and did nothing at all.

All the things you listed are because of shortterm thinking and not having the foresight of climate change or disputable nature at the time. Now we do know more about it, not doing an effort to create a better environment for my future offspring would not sit right for me.

The best thing to do to ensure your own next generation is to make a pile of money and leave it to them. That's what I have done. Our civilization has left them debt, war, pollution and a doubtful future. The only way to fight the future is with cubic money.

 

[PocketZeven]

The best thing to do to ensure your own next generation is to make a pile of money and leave it to them. That's what I have done. Our civilization has left them debt, war, pollution and a doubtful future. The only way to fight the future is with cubic money.

That is a bit overdramatic. Our same civilization has also earned that wealth, human rights, civil rights, peace, internet and a hopefull future (There are still 194/183 who are in the paris agreement) etc.

I guess pessimists live longer then optimists.

 

[Strittan]

That is a bit overdramatic. Our same civilization has also earned that wealth, human rights, civil rights, peace, internet and a hopefull future (There are still 194/183 who are in the paris agreement) etc.

I guess pessimists live longer then optimists.

And yet emissions have started to increase again in the last couple years, after leveling out for a couple years before that.

As I said earlier, it would basically take the whole world to go full communist right now, not next year, along with growing our own food and making our own clothes, in order to slow global warming down enough.

I’m just glad I was born in 1989 instead of 2089.

We can do what we can though, sure, but electric cars is not a solution. Taking the bus on the other hand, or riding a bike (a used bike preferably instead of a new one) or walking is a solution, along with eating less if any meat, not getting a new phone each year, and consume less in general.

 

[PocketZeven]

And yet emissions have started to increase again in the last couple years, after leveling out for a couple years before that.

As I said earlier, it would basically take the whole world to go full communist right now, not next year, along with growing our own food and making our own clothes, in order to slow global warming down enough.

I’m just glad I was born in 1989 instead of 2089.

We can do what we can though, sure, but electric cars is not a solution. Taking the bus on the other hand, or riding a bike (a used bike preferably instead of a new one) or walking is a solution, along with eating less if any meat, not getting a new phone each year, and consume less in general.

As a child from parents who came from a communist regime, I dont recommend communism. Capitalism is already doing its work with investments in renewables, promoting healthier diet trends etc. The problem lies with having a potus that publicly states that he doesnt believe in climate change. Admitting you have a problem is the very first step to healing.

 

[mustafur]

I doubt where I live is going to be livable in the next few decades, Western Sydney is stupid hot in summer these heatwaves are much too frequent.

 

[Dotini]

I doubt where I live is going to be livable in the next few decades, Western Sydney is stupid hot in summer these heatwaves are much too frequent.

The South Magnetic Pole has departed the continent of Antarctica and is moving your way. The shifts in the polar vortex (jetstream) and accompanying weather patterns may be visiting you more intensely.

 

[Strittan]

As a child from parents who came from a communist regime, I dont recommend communism. Capitalism is already doing its work with investments in renewables, promoting healthier diet trends etc. The problem lies with having a potus that publicly states that he doesnt believe in climate change. Admitting you have a problem is the very first step to healing.

The only thing capitalism does is makes sure you buy stuff. Promoting healthier diet trends? You’re joking, right?
https://longevity.media/the-real-reason-behind-the-increase-in-fast-food-outlets

Yes, admitting we have a problem is a good start. What is the problem? We buy too much stuff, so why won’t you admit that?

 

[PocketZeven]

Ca

The only thing capitalism does is makes sure you buy stuff. Promoting healthier diet trends? You’re joking, right?
https://longevity.media/the-real-reason-behind-the-increase-in-fast-food-outlets

Yes, admitting we have a problem is a good start. What is the problem? We buy too much stuff, so why won’t you admit that?

Perhaps, but buying less stuff isnt the best solution of the problem. Personally I want my stuff.

In my opinion we need to protect ourselves, from ourselves. People are greedy and motivated by money. Worldleaders and elected governments should be mandating lower emission, renewables, recycling targets etc. These also provide financial opportunities and greedy people will pivot quickly. Take for example the rise of Tesla.

That article doesnt provide any data.

The Paris agreement was a major step forwards. But one of the largest, most influential countries in the world pulling out is a big step backwards again. Especially when its leader says in front of the whole world he doesnt believe in climate change.

 

[Strittan]

Perhaps, but buying less stuff isnt the best solution of the problem. Personally I want my stuff.

It is the best solution though, but I get that you want your stuff, just like I want my stuff. That is the problem. You, just like most others don’t want to acknowledge this though, but it’s a simple fact.

In my opinion we need to protect ourselves, from ourselves. People are greedy and motivated by money. Worldleaders and elected governments should be mandating lower emission, renewables, recycling targets etc. These also provide financial opportunities and greedy people will pivot quickly. Take for example the rise of Tesla.

That article doesnt provide any data.

The Paris agreement was a major step forwards. But one of the largest, most influential countries in the world pulling out is a big step backwards again. Especially when its leader says in front of the whole world he doesnt believe in climate change.

Trump is a problem, yes, but you’re not living your life the way you do because of him, are you? You’re living your life the way you do because you want to. You could decide to eat nothing but eco friendly food and never buy a thing for the rest of your life, even with Trump being president, but you won’t.