GM makes Aveo more appealing

[Raghavan]

I think Poverty is using imperial gallons to get the higher mpg mark, right?

 

[niky]

Seeing as how Chevy haven't put a corporate nose on the Corvette, I don't think they're overdoing it that much.

But yes, the whole idea of the "corporate look" took a turn for the worse with the Caliber. It's like they wanted people to know it's related to the Durango, and couldn't find any better way to do it than to shrink the Durango's clay mock-up in the sun for a few weeks.

 

[Raghavan]

Audi's corporate face is one of the worst examples, besides Dodge's, imo. They uglified so many beautiful cars!

 

[niky]

Agreed. The Volks/Audi nose was interesting when it came out, but now its just overdone.

I think Poverty is using imperial gallons to get the higher mpg mark, right?

Not really, he's quoting UK-sourced EC figures, which besides using UK Gallons vs. US Gallons, uses a different testing regimen from the EPA tests. I've posted the differences in the previous page. Not his fault, really, the numbers confused the hell out of me till I looked them up.

 

[YSSMAN]

Two reasons why GM won't sell Holdens here:

1) GM's US car model lineup would get creamated in sales if these Holdens were at the same price point. Holdens have so much better looking cars.
2) The cost associated with importing them and "fitting them" with American BS would put the cost over similar competitive American models--which nullifies reason #1.

I say GM scraps any US-born car and just imports better formats from it's EU/AU markets and LIMITS what they change to them...I'm sick of all this nannifying the US automakers do and this rediculous "company brand front end" STAMPED on the front of EVERY car is retarded. Dodge does it, Ford does it, and GM does it (not as bad as the other 2). In contrast so does a few Japanese automakers...*cough*Subaru*cough*.

You mention that the costs for imprting and conversions are too high... GM execs had said earlier this year that they are going to begin to build "Global Market Cars" within the next few years, so that all the cars that are based on a particular platform can all be built in one plant and shipped around the world. So that might mean that our Vectra, Malibus, G6s, 9-3's, Auras, etc will all be built in the same plant sometime soon...

Which all adds up to the slightest possiblity that some of the better GM vehicles that are not sold in the US (primarily that of the Vauxhaull/Opel/Holden triplets) may trickle into the states and take some sales away from the Japanese and other European models... IT JUST MIGHT HAPPEN...

 

[niky]

Well, that was what they were doing with the Daewoo/Chevy thing. They tooled up plants in Korea and China to produce the Daewoo/Chevy Aveo, the Daewoo/Chevy/Suzuki Optra/Forenza and the old Chevy Lumina (sold as a current model in Asia/China).

They will probably start the new plants off with the upgraded Aveo and Optra/Forenza. I really wish they'd drop the Optra for the Cobalt platform, as that one seems much more modern. I'm hoping it means they will consider marketing an updated RWD platform to compete with the 300 for overseas volume, but I'm not holding my breath just yet. I expect they might start exporting the Malibu to compete in the Accord/Camry market. IMHO, exporting the Lumina as a lead model was probably a big mistake... consensus is it's a nice car, but its early 1990's looks and obviously outdated engine and platform are driving customers away by the dozen.

 

[YSSMAN]

The Malibu recieved a lot of credit for being the first of the current generation American cars that actually approached the Camry and Accord with enough confidence to become a slight compeditor. The LT model is a beauty, IMO, and the SS should be a good counterpart to the SE V6 and EX V6 models from Toyota and Honda respectively.

But the Europeans (and the Aussies for that matter) still have the goods that would be better competition for the Camry and Accord than the Malibu or G6 would ever be. Yes, the new Vectra is almost exactly the same car as the new Saturn Aura, but that is what we need if we are going to take Honda and Toyota head on. I personally think the Vectra VXR would sell a helluva lot better here in the states than the Saturn Ion Redline or Cobalt SS, as it is faster and better looking. Hopefully the folks at Saturn get their hands on that one as well, as it is begining to appear as though Saturns in becoming the US version of Vauxhaull/Opel/Holden (sans RWD V8 models)...

There are just too many models that GM builds and sells outside of the US that they should sell here. Particularly the Caddy BLS, Holden RWD V8 models, and the full slate of Opel/Vauxhaul products...

 

[Poverty]

Nicky you have hit the nail on the head regarding the mpg differences. As for corporate faces I think in this day and age its very important. I quite like corporate faces as cars are looking more similiar today than they did 10 years ago that car manufacturers needed to do something to make sure that theyre vehicle is still instantly recognisable from a distance. All the top marques have been doing it for some time now.

 

[Ev0]

I personally think the Vectra VXR would sell a helluva lot better here in the states than the Saturn Ion Redline or Cobalt SS, as it is faster and better looking. Hopefully the folks at Saturn get their hands on that one as well, as it is begining to appear as though Saturns in becoming the US version of Vauxhaull/Opel/Holden (sans RWD V8 models)...

The Cobalt SS is a much better car than the VXR. Although the VXR has a more powerful engine, that is exactly why it is not as good as the Cobalt SS. The VXR has way too much power for an FF car, and the result is ungodly understeer. The Cobalt SS on the other hand, has been praised for its excellent handling. And the SS certainly is not lacking in straight line speed. I also think the Cobalt SS is a cheaper car if you did the currency conversions.

 

[niky]

Actually, the Vectra VXR isn't much of a handler, but the new Astra OPC/VXR/Whatevertheheckit'scalled is supposed to be pretty sharp... too sharp according to some publications. Actually (checks the internet...) the Astra shares platforms with the Cobalt and Ion

It would be a tough sell in Asia, as Opels have the same "tough to own and maintain" reputation that Daewoo did. But as that is owing to the fact that the Opel dealership and spares network is so sparse out in the far east, it may not carry over if GM decides to expand.

Opel's rep out here is sort of at the same level as Ford is now. Old wives' tales of poor build, expensive parts and fragile cars. Though not entirely false, I do believe that GM can overcome these consumer fears. Ford is doing it now through robust marketing and increasing the quality of their aftermarket support. Plus, using Mazda platforms (better reliability, somewhat) under their new cars can't hurt.

 

[YSSMAN]

CAR magazine gave the VXR quite a bit of praise, but they did feel that the GTI was still the best of the hot-hatch vehicles in their September test.

Between the two, its a tough call. The Cobalt SS was not as fast as they had predicted it will be, but of course, it could all change when the new ECOTEC 2.4L Turbo debuts in the Solstice and Sky Turbos with somewhere around 240hp...

 

[Raghavan]

Agreed. The Volks/Audi nose was interesting when it came out, but now its just overdone.



Not really, he's quoting UK-sourced EC figures, which besides using UK Gallons vs. US Gallons, uses a different testing regimen from the EPA tests. I've posted the differences in the previous page. Not his fault, really, the numbers confused the hell out of me till I looked them up.

I see. I was hoping those were actual obtainable mpg values here in the US!

 

[Onikaze]

Wait, did someone say the rear end of the new Aveo looks like a Chevy?

I thought it looked like any of the 40,000 Honda Civics with clear tail lights running around.

Hmmm....

No, I don't see it, maybe if they put the big 4 tail lights like the Cobalt/Vette have I might see "Chevy" instead of "Pre-Riced".

Either way, affordable, should run for a long time, but not quite as kitschy as an xA, or as loaded as a Rio/Accent.

Good try Chevy, still 5 years late thought, maybe next time?

 

[Danny]

The Amanti looks like a Benz and Jaguar mated, the Spectra looks similar to a Protege, Sedona looks a lot like a Windstar/Freestar.

The reason for the big warrenites was because back in the 90's Korean cars were crappy, no questioning that...in order to sell them they had to put a huge warrenty on them. Not saying they are bad now, but they once were.

Hey, they could have modelled them on uglier cars.

That said, I’m anxious to see the pricing on the Honda Fit when it’s brought stateside in Spring. Too bad the Yaris hatchback looks like a soccer ball for Hummers, because I don’t want the sedan (which actually looks decent, and has a slightly less dumb-looking center console).

Dude, Honda Fit sounds daft.

We get the Honda Jazz

 

[Danny]

I agree, but I don't think Ford is guilty of it.....

At least, not locally.

We have corporate facing

Focus

Focus C-Max

Mondeo (Contour )

Fiesta

Fusion

Galaxy

 

[a6m5]

We have corporate facing

I had the feeling, that's why I said locally. Your lineup looks much better than the American one. I've seen the new Focus, only in pictures. In the States, we still get the "minor changed" Focus. It's the second pic I posted. New Focus looks really good.

 

[Danny]

Not really visual leaps and bounds from it's predecessor though.

 

[Wolfe]

It's a pretty big leap backwards, in my opinion. They took a car that was sorta nice-looking, ya know, slightly above the usual econocar look, and then chopped it up like some hairy guy who does plastic surgery in the back of an alleyway for $20.

 

[YSSMAN]

Eh, the Focus can stay in Europe as long as it wants. I didnt find the US version to be all that special, but then again, the American automotive press loved the car up untill a year ago... But most of the paise was focused (no pun intneded) on the SVT model, not it's economy car kin.

To take the Japanese head on in the market that they have truely dominated since the '60s, American automakers are still going to be hard-pressed to ever be too close to their competition. Sure, the Cobalt came close to the last Honda Civic and Toyota Corolla. But as always, as soon as the American car comes out, the new Japanese models debut.

 

[niky]

AFAIK, the Cobalt is doing pretty well. They're currently running third in total sales on the entry level market for the entire year. Not bad considering they were launched mid-year.

 

[VIPFREAK]

That said, I’m anxious to see the pricing on the Honda Fit when it’s brought stateside in Spring.

Here here! OMFG!? What the hell's wrong with me!? :heads to a mental institution:

 

[Raghavan]

The only thing i'm anxious for is a small (Civic size) RWD car with a manual with a base price of $14-15k. Put a small 4 cylinder in and have a 5 speed manual. That way, all the young, poor car enthusiasts like me can have a real car.

 

[Wolfe]

The only thing i'm anxious for is a small (Civic size) RWD car with a manual with a base price of $14-15k. Put a small 4 cylinder in and have a 5 speed manual. That way, all the young, poor car enthusiasts like me can have a real car.

Old BMW 3-series, Mercedes 190E, 240SX, Miata, etc. etc. the list goes on...

Unless you're simply talking about new cars -- if so, just wait a few years and import a used BMW 1-series.

 

[JCE]

Unless you're simply talking about new cars -- if so, just wait a few years and import a used BMW 1-series.

3 problems with the BMW 1-series;

1. it'll be too expensive to compete in it's class.
2. it needs the BMW straight six and not a 4 cyl.
3. it'll be driven by 16 yearold girls when thier rich ass parents buy them.

 

[YSSMAN]

Car and Driver just tested the 120d, and came away impressed. But at $25K, its extremely expensive and doesnt perform as well as, say, the Volkswagen GTI/GLI or Audi A3...

 

[niky]

There are too many technical and space restrictions on RWD for any carmaker nowadays to consider building a RWD econocar.

But then, we had the Miata... RWD, 2 seater, 4 cylinder engine, five-speed, great balance... and if you say "well, that's a hairdresser's car" you'd be missing the point. I've seen lots of rich guys take Miatas to the track because they're fast, fun, cheap and you don't really worry about stuffing a Miata into the wall in places where you'd be tiptoeing in your Porsche.

Too bad the new ones bumped up the price past 20k.

 

[YSSMAN]

There was word a while ago that Chevrolet may greenlight the Nomad Conept from the 2003 Detroit show... Baisicly a four seat Solstice/Sky with a hard top and a hatch back... I suppose that would have fallen into the category youre talking about...

 

[Wolfe]

Car and Driver just tested the 120d, and came away impressed. But at $25K, its extremely expensive and doesnt perform as well as, say, the Volkswagen GTI/GLI or Audi A3...

Neither of which are RWD.

In any case, guys, I was talking about importing a used 1-series, a few years from now, which, given the car's relative unpopularity, should put the price reasonably low. Of course, this is all hypothetical and in good fun.

 

[JCE]

There was word a while ago that Chevrolet may greenlight the Nomad Conept from the 2003 Detroit show... Baisicly a four seat Solstice/Sky with a hard top and a hatch back... I suppose that would have fallen into the category youre talking about...

Hmm, GM does need a Hot Hatch...as long as they use a Ion/Cobalt/G6 platform with those drivetrains. Imagine a competing Hot Hatch from GM...scary.

 

[YSSMAN]

It could be done, assuimg the knuckleheads at GM get their act together and actually decide to build cars that more people would want to buy...

The 2006 Los Angeles, Detroit, Chicago, and New York shows are going to be huge for the US companies, espically GM, and it will be nice seeing what will be rolling out of Detroit in the near future...

GM is supposed to have a new Camaro and the new GTO ready for Detroit. If rumors are correct, the new Malibu is supposed to be "The best looking Chevrolet since the '55 Bel-Air," and they are going to be unveiling the rest of the GMT900 lineup as well.

Then there is the Challenger concept, the Calibur (Neon replacement), new Jeep(s), and a possible Chrysler SUV to debut as well.

As far as Ford is concerned, their biggest things will be the new Fairlane and SVT Shelby GT500 Mustang coupe/convertable.