Good and Bad; Good and Evil

[Gil]

James I realize, that you were only poking fun.
However, If you asked a serious question, and expected a serious answer, and somebody "shined you on," I would have reacted the same way towards them.
I wanted to re-inforce the serious nature of the thread, before it got highjacked.

For example: I don't know if you remember my thread question concerning the etiology of a certain "curse". But it had to be "managed" to keep it from getting "jacked".
And it still ended up going awry
Only thread I ever had that had to be padlocked.
I actually am a nice guy most of the time.

 

[James2097]

James I realize, that you were only poking fun.
However, If you asked a serious question, and expected a serious answer, and somebody "shined you on," I would have reacted the same way towards them.
I wanted to re-inforce the serious nature of the thread, before it got highjacked.

Yes sir! I will be much more seriouser (?) from now on.

I actually am a nice guy most of the time.

Never doubted that! You even cut people down with a funny quote.

I realised I'd made a big mistake as soon as the first person got annoyed at me. My humour doesn't translate over the internet too well (needs the sarcastic voice ).

Anyway, I do think the media (in most countries) is responsible for a lot of the simplistic good/evil jargon that permeates the world, creating disrespectful, or demonising attitudes (just as often "We are classy Europeans, those Americans are so uncivilised and have an evil president" as "Those Europeans, they can't get anything DONE if their life depended on it, they just talk forever and have a misplaced elitism"). This kind of rhetoric is a big problem amongst all nations to an extent. Unfortunately, we are in a world that continually forces us to choose sides. Political sides, national side, religious side, race side, sexuality side, idealogical side, moral side, business side, sporting side, etc etc - even favouring one game console over another (that EVIL Microsoft)! We are so conditioned to exaggerate the flaws in whatever we have decided is 'bad' and over-play the positives of what we favour (or have a vested interest in) to an entirely irrational level. I always try my best to just NOT pick a side in any matter where the decision isn't clear cut, if there are many shades of gray... I don't believe its weak to be a fence sitter, sometimes it takes great strength as its quite tempting to just pick a side - it simplifies your life, people love simplicity.

Which brings me to my other main point, people enjoy choosing a side in everything they do, as it simplifies their choices (only has to be decided once). The more staunchly one keeps their 'sides', the more comfortable and easy their life becomes. They never need to question what they believe or think. In this way, the media is VERY dangerous, it can control many many people as if they are sheep. This could also be why religion is so comforting to many, the answer is right there, no extra thinking required. The overtly clear cut 'good'/'bad' choices are all a product of the human mind to help life to more comforting. Until you get into a conflict with those different than you...

Good and Evil are also concepts that are really far apart due to cultural influence, simplifying the concept for extra clarity - life becomes even more 'clear' and 'comfortable'. Democrats hate Republicans, calling them fascists, whilst Republicans despise Democrats, branding them 'wacko socialist liberals'...
As an Australian, I percieved very little difference (compared to how wildly different each side thinks the other is) in the style of American government from the Clinton to Bush eras. Yes, a major personality difference, but Clinton wanted to finish Saddam also "we bombed him many a time...", and would have come out with much the same "war on terror" jargon after 9/11. Even movies often have a clear cut 'bad-guy' who we never get a chance to fully understand, whilst the good guy is better looking with a cooler car etc...

Team America makes quite a good mockery of the clear-cut views of various sides, showing them all to be flawed unless everyone works together. The day everyone wakes up and fully realises the infinite complexity of life, we'll all get along a LOT better...

I don't think its possible for person to truly be purely 'evil'. Even Hitler (btw "Downfall" is a GREAT movie about Hitler's last days, made from the German point of view- very insightful to his character) would've been reasonably normal as a young child I would reckon, same with every "evil" person in history. They obtain the motives/reason to carry out 'evil' actions later in life, all due to the particular life they've led. It IS correct that no man would think of himself as an evil person, nor is any person born 'evil'. Humans may be stupid, or illogical, or lack compassion, but I think these are all factors due to either a chemical imbalance or simply the environment in which the child is raised. If Adolf Hitler was born today under different circumstances, he'd probably live a very ordinary life. Its all about making many small decisions, choosing your side.

 

[Grand Prix]

Good post. 👍

Yes, Hitler had a different life from most. He had a rough family relationship/upbringing, was sprayed with mustard gas in WW1, and lived in poverty as an amateur artist. I'd be scared to meet a person that wasn't passionate about his beliefs after that.

 

[Young_Warrior]

Stick it where the sun don’t shine and get back on topic. Every damn thread you enter, you say “Only in America” or something else critical (no, not critical – ignorant) that you picked up from the jerkfaces who have nothing better to do with themselves than whine about the world.

Who are these jerk faces you speak of.

I have an example for you guys.


There was thsi foreign company based in america which had some kind of disaster or something and damaged the surroundings of the company. The government then ordered that company to clean it up and they did.

Then in india the american government somehow managed to pollute indian soil with deadly toxins etc and the indian government asked american to clean up their mess but they refused. Indian people to this day are still suffering and dieing from that waste that your government left behind.

Still wonder why most nations arent to happy with you guys?

Oh and with the terrorists and osama bin laden and all their weapons it was all given to them by the US government. America made them terrorists against russia and they were all fine and dandy with terrorism when it wasnt being pitted against themselves.


Oh one more thing...............Yes it is "only in america" as they are the only country that has more gunshops than we have McDonalds. Hell if us brits want to shoot some evil we cant walk to the local complex and go buy a gun we have to first dial 999 a police officer will then show up and if it really does shooting he will then have to phone up firearms to get a special police man down to shoot it. Oh and as soon as a policeman lets his gun rip in the UK he goes straight on suspension whilst the matter is investigated.


Thank You

 

[Zardoz]

Who are these jerk faces you speak of.

I have an example for you guys.


There was thsi foreign company based in america which had some kind of disaster or something and damaged the surroundings of the company. The government then ordered that company to clean it up and they did.

Then in india the american government somehow managed to pollute indian soil with deadly toxins etc and the indian government asked american to clean up their mess but they refused. Indian people to this day are still suffering and dieing from that waste that your government left behind.

Still wonder why most nations arent to happy with you guys?

Oh and with the terrorists and osama bin laden and all their weapons it was all given to them by the US government. America made them terrorists against russia and they were all fine and dandy with terrorism when it wasnt being pitted against themselves.


Oh one more thing...............Yes it is "only in america" as they are the only country that has more gunshops than we have McDonalds. Hell if us brits want to shoot some evil we cant walk to the local complex and go buy a gun we have to first dial 999 a police officer will then show up and if it really does shooting he will then have to phone up firearms to get a special police man down to shoot it. Oh and as soon as a policeman lets his gun rip in the UK he goes straight on suspension whilst the matter is investigated.


Thank You

Kid, you are really making a fool of yourself. You have no idea of anything you're talking about.

 

[Famine]

You obviously have no clue what the gun laws are in America. So, you should shutup currently about things you don't understand.

Then enlighten him, rather than a smackdown... People might like to know what the gun laws in the US actually are.

 

[TheCracker]

...
Just to prove I love America (to remove all doubt):
My favorite people: Hendrix, Buddy Guy, BB King, Stevie Ray Vaughan (all American).
My favorite things: Fender Strat, Gibson Les Paul (American).
My favorite food: Hamburgers, ribs, nachos etc (American, a bit mexican but close enough).
My favorite music: Blues, Rock & Roll (originally American - although you did have to enslave an entire race of people for it )
My favorite cars: many of them classic American models...
Do I need go on?

Wow, you're practically a redneck hick!

 

[Young_Warrior]

Kid, you are really making a fool of yourself. You have no idea of anything you're talking about.

Well contine living in lalaland and belive everyhting your media tells you as bible word.

http://www.muchosucko.com/flash/pentagonlies.html

 

[James2097]

Then enlighten him, rather than a smackdown... People might like to know what the gun laws in the US actually are.

Well I'd like to know for a start! My only education about America and their guns is pretty much hollywood movies, and Bowling For Columbine . In terms of news stories relating to shootings etc, we only get the craziest worst case stories here in Aus, which makes America seem totally outta control, trigger happy murderers (which your murder rates kinda indicates - compare to any other western country where there is stronger gun control). Obviously the reality of everyday life in America is somewhat more normal! Still, a friend went to the US for the first time last year and literally got ****-scared the first time a huge biker dude pulled up on a Harley with a shotgun across his back and dual revolvers on his hips... he couldn't believe this is legal! But maybe the US's gun laws are a topic for another thread...?

Don't blast young_warrior too hard, he's just got a different perspective (I know many people like him...). He does have some valid points, even if he's exaggerating/biased/uninformed (take your pick). Most of the things he says did come from news reports/articles I've seen/read at some point (regardless of whats factually correct).

Wow, you're practically a redneck hick

There's not much difference between an Aussie 'bogan' or 'yobbo' and an American redneck!

 

[Pako]

Then enlighten him, rather than a smackdown... People might like to know what the gun laws in the US actually are.

A Simple Google Search.

But this thread isn't about gun laws in the US of A now is it. So let try and stay of topic or this redneck American will put the smackdown on the violators.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is my opinion that cultures and social acceptance has a great influence on "Good" and "Bad", where as "Evil" and "non-Evil" are constant.

I don't know if a topic as complex as this can be summarized in two paragraphs, but here goes.

There are cultural differences that can be viewed as good or bad. Take eating beef in America and eating beef in India for example. Ancient Hawaiians would throw newborns off of ocean cliffs if they were born with any birth defects. Acts of kindness in some cultures can be viewed as weakness or not kindness at all. Refusing gifts to be polite is also greatly insulting in other cultures.

Then you have horrific acts against humanity. I think what I consider to be "evil" is when there is personal gain at the unwilling expense of others, and likewise what I consider to be "non-evil" is when there is gain for others at some willing personal expense.

 

[ledhed]

Then enlighten him, rather than a smackdown... People might like to know what the gun laws in the US actually are.

Ummm....................buy guns and shoot stuff ?

You would have to go State by State for the enless variations on the laws but federal law is a good start.


To own a firearm you must be non insane ( ummm never been judged insane..umm legally like . ) You must have never been convicted of a felony..and some misdemenors..must never have been dishonorably discharged by the military and for handguns be at least 21 years old... (could have changed to 18 and back again..I aint 18 so I dont care) . There's also some residency crap someplace . Thats it .
Each state and the feds list what they consider legal firearms .
Permits are required in most states to carry a firearm .
In some states permits are requires to own a handgun . ( the communist ones like the Peoples republic of New Jersey ) .


For Machine guns you need a special permit thats very difficult to get and carries a bunch of restrictions...(your better off joining the army if you want to shoot machineguns ... I hear there's lots of targets ! ) . Some military type weapons are not legal no matter what !! I always wanted an anti aircraft gumn for my lawn ...but them buggers ! They wont let me !

Of course the criminal element ...the " I don' need no stinkin' permit ! " types tell you to stick your laws up your bunghole anyway so ...they get cash and carry.....or rob and run..what ever they like .

http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/Default.aspx
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1998/schools/gun.control/

 

[ledhed]

Who are these jerk faces you speak of.

I have an example for you guys.


There was thsi foreign company based in america which had some kind of disaster or something and damaged the surroundings of the company. The government then ordered that company to clean it up and they did.

Then in india the american government somehow managed to pollute indian soil with deadly toxins etc and the indian government asked american to clean up their mess but they refused. Indian people to this day are still suffering and dieing from that waste that your government left behind.

Still wonder why most nations arent to happy with you guys?

Oh and with the terrorists and osama bin laden and all their weapons it was all given to them by the US government. America made them terrorists against russia and they were all fine and dandy with terrorism when it wasnt being pitted against themselves.


Oh one more thing...............Yes it is "only in america" as they are the only country that has more gunshops than we have McDonalds. Hell if us brits want to shoot some evil we cant walk to the local complex and go buy a gun we have to first dial 999 a police officer will then show up and if it really does shooting he will then have to phone up firearms to get a special police man down to shoot it. Oh and as soon as a policeman lets his gun rip in the UK he goes straight on suspension whilst the matter is investigated.


Thank You

Yep tell that to Brazil

 

[Pupik]

Yep tell that to Brazil

I'm not if this is appropriate, but... :laugh:

I'm surprised that so many of those "intelligent forms of life from Europe" have such strong and ignorant predjudices about Americans.

Believe it or not:

1) We don't all own a gun.

No really, they didn't hand one out to everyone who passed middle-school History class. That doesn't mean we're all against gun laws, or against gun safety. For example, I don't own a gun. I don't feel the need to at this point. But, guess what? I'm not for taking other people's rights away unless they've been utterly squandered away.

2) We're not all stupid, lazy, and ignorant.

Considering we're tops in just about every segment of technology, entertainment, education, military, and rest-of-the-world welfare, I'd say we had to do some hard work to get there, don't you think?

3) We don't believe everything we see, read, or hear in the media.

Because we have a First Ammendment that allows almost all types of free speech, we know that you have to filter out information at times.

4) We're not all Evangelical Christians.

Freedom for religions on a scale unseen anywhere else in the world. True, sometimes to me it's similar to being a Linux or Mac user at Microsoft's website; but like a TV show I don't like, I can just turn it off and ignore it...

 

[FoolKiller]

Well contine living in lalaland and belive everyhting your media tells you as bible word.

http://www.muchosucko.com/flash/pentagonlies.html

When the site name is muchosucko.com it suddenly makes me think it is reliable.

Here, try these on too. These will help you realize that not even living outside of America will help you.

http://educate-yourself.org/nwo/
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/

These people believe along the same lines of though that you do. America is bad and there is a big conspiracy to take over the world while making the world blind to what they are doing.


BACK ON TOPIC:

I think the whole good, bad, evil thing is a matter of perspective. However, when you begin to purposely kill helpless people and innocent civilians to stop what you believe is an evil world you may find yourself in the minority and staring down the bad end of a cruise missile.

Grand Prix, I am not sure if you were trying to compare American colonists to terrorists early on with the quote about one man's terrorist is another man freedom fighter comment but I strongly disagree there. American colonists declared independence from the British and the British disagreed. Military action or someone surrendering was teh only solutions at that point. American colonists ended their fight when the British military left American soil and gave up. American colonists did not continue on to Britain to blow up public buildings full of civilians and declare they would not stop until all British were dead. In fact, they would have preferred to go on to create trade agreements and over time become great allies.

You can say that Islamic extremists may see today's terrorists as freedom fighters or that Anarchists see Timothy McVeigh as a freedom fighter, but you cannot compare them to the George Washington or Benjamin Franklin because the goals are completely different.

If you weren't trying to say that and were making two sepereate points just say so and I will drop it.

 

[Danoff]

Now, I don’t want to be labeled a simplistic American here, but I have to say that many of you are making this a lot more complicated than it has to be.

Is there a such thing as good or evil people? Probably not. Most people do some things evil or good at some point in their lives. Still, one can look at the majority of someone’s actions and make a general observation about their behavior. How do we evaluate someone’s actions? In terms of right and wrong, which are absolute.

Is there as such thing as right and wrong? Yes. Are they relative? No.

Wrong is to consume more than you have produced or has been freely given to you.
Wrong is to take property that is not yours.
Wrong is to bear false witness, or to use force against someone who has done you no wrong.

Too simplistic?

 

[Duke]

Now, I don’t want to be labeled a simplistic American here

That's redundant, but who's counting. You're also automatically stupid, lazy, arrogant, tasteless, fat, and racist. Sorry, bud, it's just our bad luck for being born here.

 

[Famine]

That's life. I'm apparently a posh, suit-wearing chinless wonder, who drinks tea out of a china cup (with my pinky sticking out) and talks like either the Queen or Dick van Dyke. Goes with the territory.

Though Ron DOES say I "sound posh"...

 

[Zardoz]

Well contine living in lalaland and belive everyhting your media tells you as bible word.

http://www.muchosucko.com/flash/pentagonlies.html

Total crap. Doctored photos, outright lies, snippets of quotes taken out of context, etc., etc.

How many eyewitness accounts of the American Airlines jet hitting the Pentagon would you like to read?:

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/witnesses/bart.html

 

[Young_Warrior]

Did you know that if you really want to believe something that didnt happen your mind will believe it.

Its like when I used to get in trouble at school and teachers wouldnt believe my lies and i would get pretty vexxed as in my mind I turned my lies into what I thought was reality.

 

[Flame-returns]

I live in London UK.

But in america anyone can have a gun and so most people do and it a kind of norm but only the gangstas and rudeboys in london kingston etc be bustin gats.

Wassup homie, you be disrespecting our nice friends across da pond a I be poppin' a cap in yo ass!

No seriously everyone, we have no rudeboyz in Kingston, London. Kingston is one of the richest areas of London.

 

[Zardoz]

Did you know that if you really want to believe something that didnt happen your mind will believe it.

Its like when I used to get in trouble at school and teachers wouldnt believe my lies and i would get pretty vexxed as in my mind I turned my lies into what I thought was reality.

Exactly, such as "your mind" believing it was something other than American Airlines Flight 77 that hit the Pentagon. You really want to believe 9/11 was a U.S. government plot, so you'll buy into any horsecrap that is thrown into the air that backs up your fantasy.

What, all those eyewitnesses are liars?

You seem to be really good at self-deception and self-delusion. We can think of one or two others who post on this site that are also very good at that...

 

[Pako]

Apparently we have a hard time staying on topic in this thread. If you want a non-topic conversation, there is a thread already started in the Conversation Forum.