Gran Turismo 5 Is Not Boring Or Easy As You May Have Thought Before...

[bullet360]

People spend over $250'000 on their cars, buy racing softs for all vehicles, run tcs on 10 and wonder why its so hard to lose a race.... If you keep the pp or even the horse power range with the range of the competition maybe you will get somewhere... And also if you own a wheel... It takes a good couple laps to get to 3 place....

 

[Seismica]

I notice that in the sports car events when running sports hard or medium tyres, the AI is actually pretty challenging. But when you get to the racing tyres, the AI runs out of talent, and is simply too slow. I don't understand it, it's like the AI doesn't use the extra grip of the tyres, and their throttle input is still progressive like in supercars on sports hard tyres, when really they should be going flat out of corners on racing softs in a SuperGT car for example.

I raced extensively in A-spec in version 1.0 because at the time I didn't have an internet connection for my PS3. Recently i've been playing version 1.10 both online and off and I feel that the AI has gotten worse. They used to be clean drivers. The only improvement is they don't slam the brakes on when you touch them, but theres still the same old drive in a line, ram the player's car if he brakes earlier than you, overtake on a straight and pull infront then brake immediately after so you hit them etc.

Of course, the AI wouldn't be so bad if... You know, I can't think of a way to finish that sentence. The AI is just bad. Theres always a lead car who is 5+ seconds ahead at the end of lap 1, the opposition can only battle with eachother. When it comes to the player, they're as bad as they were in GT4. As with GT4 there are times when the AI will give you space and show slight awareness, but the majority of the time they are oblivious to your existence.

 

[Tume]

Agreed. It get's quite irritating how the AI slows down when it detects you're going to pass. Sometimes I'll come up behind an AI and ride his bumper through a corner until I can safely pass, but when I start to accelerate out of the corner he putts along I end up rear-ending him and lose speed.

Agreed, this is driving me crazy! Sometimes they let go of the throttle at a completely irrational moment.

 

[robbo6]

The AI CAN'T be perfect.

Agree with OP.

no-ones asking for it to be perfect tho, just BETTER. A concept you seem hell bent on arguing against!

On topic (ish) after watching Top Gear I took my MP4-12c on the TGTT and has an ace blast. GT5 excels in this, one of the better looking tracks and one of the premium cars and just hot lapping. So I'll give credit where credit is due with regards the game.

Shame PD didn't put as much effort in the racing experience, seeing as it's the only way to afford the cars.

Agreed, this is driving me crazy! Sometimes they let go of the throttle at a completely irrational moment.

They let go of the throttle whenever the human player is near I think. Watching a replay I see countless times where a car I overtake is then passed by the car (or even two) behind me because it's backed off so much letting me past. The cornering algorithms (if that's what its called) is WAY off in GT5. The more I see it in action the more I think the Ai is set up for "fast in-slow out", when the whole game teaches the player (rightly so) that slow in fast out is better.

 

[marky5244]

My wish is for the skill level of the AI to vary over time dependant on the player's skill - if you win every race by miles than the AI skill should increase. There could then be a 'player skill level' number shown in your profile. For those who know iRacing 'player skill level' would be similar to iRating. Even if this wasn't easily possible it would at least be nice if there was a slider, say on a scale of 1 to 100 to vary the AI's speed that the player could set.

 

[Tume]

They let go of the throttle whenever the human player is near I think. Watching a replay I see countless times where a car I overtake is then passed by the car (or even two) behind me because it's backed off so much letting me past. The cornering algorithms (if that's what its called) is WAY off in GT5. The more I see it in action the more I think the Ai is set up for "fast in-slow out", when the whole game teaches the player (rightly so) that slow in fast out is better.

That is pretty much how I see it as well. Quite often I'm coming out of the corner right behind an AI car, getting better acceleration out of the corner. AI has got their car in a straight line and should have the throttle floored, I pull out to overtake and then the AI car suddenly lifts off the throttle completely and causes a collision. This pretty much makes it impossible for them to fight for a position, because they just seem to give up and let you go the instant they "sense" you near them.

 

[robbo6]

That is pretty much how I see it as well. Quite often I'm coming out of the corner right behind an AI car, getting better acceleration out of the corner. AI has got their car in a straight line and should have the throttle floored, I pull out to overtake and then the AI car suddenly lifts off the throttle completely and causes a collision. This pretty much makes it impossible for them to fight for a position, because they just seem to give up and let you go the instant they "sense" you near them.

yup, the "avoidance" part of the Ai coding is a bit too much. I'd hate to be an Ai programmer.....that's a thankless job at the mo!

 

[Mac K]

My wish is for the skill level of the AI to vary over time dependant on the player's skill - if you win every race by miles than the AI skill should increase. There could then be a 'player skill level' number shown in your profile. For those who know iRacing 'player skill level' would be similar to iRating. Even if this wasn't easily possible it would at least be nice if there was a slider, say on a scale of 1 to 100 to vary the AI's speed that the player could set.

That's actually an excellent idea!

 

[Morgoth_666]

Once they have decided that they are now coming out of the corner they will generally keep it floored if you pull alongside, same with in an actual straight. If they are going into, turning through, or getting aligned for, what they see as a corner then they will park as soon as you get along side, even by an inch.

Zooming in on the map will show them doing this constantly.

If you stay behind, get a run out of the corner but don't catch up to them while they're still thinking about the corner, and are alongside before they start thinking about the next one, they do fight you.

When it comes to race cars, I suspect they just have no comprehension of what downforce is and drive like it isn't there.

AI driver programming is obviously quite difficult, and fascinating. Very tough to balance "aware" and "agressive." They do do some things well but it's easy to notice what they don't. I do think that they really need to rework their basic approach to cornering however.

Probably the wrong thread for this anyway.

 

[Golfman2]

Well since i am not yet back online with my ps3 i am still stuck with the basic release package of GT5. I admit when i first got it i couldnt understand where the 5 years development went. To be honest i thought it was a huge disappointment, an anti-climax, all those things. The biggest gripe i had was the shoddy detail and lack of in-car view for the standard car lists. It looked like they just transfered the data for GT4 across. And also the lack of racing events when compared to GT4. ALSO, the much-hyped weather effects, rally and NASCAR events......all in a separate 'Special Events' menu which to be honest looked like an afterthought. I thought it was so dull, i deleted all the save data i built up for it, and considered trading it in but had second thoughts when i heard about the updates. Just wish PD had given us a decent package to begin with. I'll get back online eventually, but until then, GT5 sits in the unused pile.

 

[Seismica]

One question is, why do the AI rule Tsukuba circuit in sports cars?

I'm doing the Supercar seasonal event now in the Mclaren F1 stock with Sports soft tyres and i'm getting my arse handed to me. They're getting better drive out of every apex. Never had a problem at other tracks. Infact in each other event i've been 4+ seconds faster per lap than the lead car but here i'm at best a second faster and when i'm at the back of the field, that's a big ask to get first place.

 

[zanxion]

Mclaren F1 has awesome looks but it isn't the best handling supercar ever. In tight tracks like Tsukuba you need full control of your car or you'll spend more time out in the fields that on tarmac. I have used my Corvette ZR1 RMed on that track and gave them hell early during race.

 

[Seismica]

I actually did it, I had to shift down to 1st gear out of the corners, that was my problem. But still, the AI is far too good at Tsukuba compared to other tracks where the AI is woeful.

 

[HKS racer]

Once they have decided that they are now coming out of the corner they will generally keep it floored if you pull alongside, same with in an actual straight. If they are going into, turning through, or getting aligned for, what they see as a corner then they will park as soon as you get along side, even by an inch.

Zooming in on the map will show them doing this constantly.

If you stay behind, get a run out of the corner but don't catch up to them while they're still thinking about the corner, and are alongside before they start thinking about the next one, they do fight you.

When it comes to race cars, I suspect they just have no comprehension of what downforce is and drive like it isn't there.

AI driver programming is obviously quite difficult, and fascinating. Very tough to balance "aware" and "agressive." They do do some things well but it's easy to notice what they don't. I do think that they really need to rework their basic approach to cornering however.

Probably the wrong thread for this anyway.

GT5's AI is the worst ever in the whole racing games history. They simply slow down and park the car once you are near them, I suspect it come from a couple of untalented programmers at PD, I can't believe this is the effort of the whole company expecially if we consider how good it was in GT5prologue. Your best bet to have a decent race in GT5 is in arcade mode, with completely stock car. Seasonals Events are only "catch the leader events" which it's NOT racing.

 

[amar212]

GT5's AI is the worst ever in the whole racing games history. They simply slow down and park the car once you are near them, I suspect it come from a couple of untalented programmers at PD, I can't believe this is the effort of the whole company expecially if we consider how good it was in GT5prologue. Your best bet to have a decent race in GT5 is in arcade mode, with completely stock car. Seasonals Events are only "catch the leader events" which it's NOT racing.

I would not agree with you. Also, saying "worst ever in the whole racing games history" is just making you look like irrational moaner or incompetent to lay such opinion because there are 90% of driving games in this generation that have AI non-comparable to GT in it's stupidity. "Aggressiveness" is not the same as "competitive". I have hard time understanding people who praise Shift AI for example, because that AI-scripts are just insane. Two games I can highlight as having good and competitive AI are Ferrari Challenge (before reaching higher-tier races when AI suddenly become blatantly homicidal) and Forza Motorsport 3 which showcases probably the most enjoyable and most competitive AI in current generation together with GT5.

There are plenty of examples of very competitive AI in the GT5, but it is not available in all the races. From what I can remember out of sleeve, AI in Supercar Festival, Ferrari F1 and Extreme races of Seasonal Events are brutal. Also, you can really have astonishing AI experience if you go into Arcade Mode > One Make Race > Advanced AI > Heavy Damage > Grip Reduction: Real. When you have constraint of driving with heavy damage and you drive as you would drive in real life, AI truly and undoubtfully shines.

However, the real question is why PD decided to scale AI throughout the game. I presume it have to do with making the game approachable to different kinds of players. If AI in the game would be brutal as in races I used as example above, many players would be frustrated.

As example to above I invite you to check whole Seasonal Events forum. There are majority of members here - and you may presume how people registered on GT-related forum are somewhat more interested in playing this game than "Regular Randy" - who have serious problems in overcoming obstacles that experienced players are finding very simple.

Real question about AI should be "Why we can't choose how hard will AI be in the race and gain extra XP/Cr for choosing harder".

 

[HKS racer]

That couple of untelented programmers at PD with the task to create the Ai forgot about the difficoulty level, which is the only way to fit the game for different kind of players, you're asking why, Imo because they messed up and rushed it. Looks weird after 5 years but knowing PD and how bad they manage their time, it's possible, this is a double face company.
I know everything about arcade mode and I mention it, only I didn't bother to write the whole story so kudos on you, that mode is the only chance to have a decent race, where you are actually racing and not "catching the leader". But if we talk about GT5's career mode we talk about a fail mode, a couple of races could be challenging but overall not good enough, GT5p had a better "career mode" if you ask me. About the seasonal events they could be fun for a while but basically you need to catch the leader from the last place, meaning you are passing other drivers easily, not the same thing of a challenging race starting from 4th and trying to win against fast rivals, everytime I compare GT5's AI with other games, like GTR2, Grid or GT5p I swear so I don't care if I'm unsettling a couple of fanboys in here, PD didn't put enough effort on AI expecially in career mode and the gameplay is suffering.

 

[robbo6]

I just don't understand why PD didn't utilise PP from the beginning. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong because I never had the game) but GT5P had PP. Having cars with similar PP would equalise performance differences. Now the other issue is tyre choice, I agree that even one tyre up from the Ai makes a huge difference, but again why doesn't tyre choice effect PP like it does with Forza PI?? Putting stickier rubber on makes a HUGE difference in lap times and is probably the SIMPLEST mod to go faster. All that coupled with the "backing off" issue makes the Ai look just stupidly slow.

It's not about the challenge per se, it's about believable "behaviour" and GT5 doesn't have it IMO.


Then again, what would people prefer, challenge (i.e. Ai can overdrive a car to set a certain lap time for difficulty) or realistic behaviour (i.e. the Ai get's the most it possibly can out of the car). Personally I'd rather realistic behaviour, then for a challenge people could handicap themselves. This has led me thinking about the Apsec points of GT4....that was a good idea I think, and could have been developed in conjunction with PP to tweak challenge and reward in GT5.

 

[Morgoth_666]

GT5's AI is the worst ever in the whole racing games history. They simply slow down and park the car once you are near them,
...
[snipped due to PS3 character limit]

I'm pretty sure the parking was not there originally, it was added around 1.06 iirc. Some sort of attempt at improving their player avoidance feature, but it obviously doesn't work correctly. It's a bit similar to what they do when you are lapping them(which doesn't work right either).

AI has long been one of GT's famous failings, I can't believe that part of the long break wasn't spent on finding people who knew how to make it work better as it does take much of the fun out of offline.

I too liked the A-Spec points from GT4. Even if it didn't get you anything, you at least had an indicator of what you had just accomplished, and you could get a sense of how tough a road you'd had by your ratio of points to races. But then I also liked qualifying so I must be pretty wierd.

 

[HKS racer]

GT5 The Real Car Parking Simulator

why do the AI rule Tsukuba circuit in sports cars?

..and The Real Tsukuba Simulator as well.

 

[Corpsey]

Has anyone else tried professional arcade mode? Do 12+ laps on circuits you can't cheat, or don't cheat the circuits that are cheatable and try to beat those AI with a stock car (try only modifying brake balance to win). They're fairly tough. It's actually a lot of fun because it's more competitive than A-Spec imo. Try also doing tire consumption on, real track edge friction, limiting yourself to stock settings as much as possible (you don't want to make it too easy). If you get frustrated redo the race over in the intermediate setting and you should be able to beat them fairly early and see exactly how different the difficulty level ramp is. There's 15 competitors too so you have to work your way up all the way from 16th, keep that in mind when choosing laps. I did a professional 13 lap race on Tsukuba with the Raybrig NSX '00 and only managed to get 2nd because a Lamborghini Diablo starts in first and I hardly gained time on it. It would've taken me another 12~20 laps to close the distance, and by then I would have had to pit. The same race in intermediate, I was 1st place by lap 5 or 6.

I wish they would let you view the other cars stats though.. I would have loved to see how much power the Diablo was putting out and I was still catching up to it.

 

[another_jakhole]

Arcade is definitely much more difficult than A-Spec. I'm not exactly sure if everybody uses Arcade Mode for some offline challenges.

 

[Aqua F1]

I had fun yesterday in a touring car in arcade mode. Not sure about you guys but I gave the car roughly the same handling and speed and the AI were for once great to drive with. They went side by side with me through the 1st sector (Nurburgring GP/D course) and was just pure racing!

 

[another_jakhole]

Was that your first time trying out arcade mode?

 

[Aqua F1]

Was that your first time trying out arcade mode?

No, done it a few times in the F1 '10 car but they weren't as fun as I could easily outpace the other '10's.

 

[tesla99]

Yeah I know, the game has gotten way more difficult since its release. Now you have to hope it dont freeze on you after a race.

 

[Corpsey]

I wish arcade had the one make race.. I know you can do it in practice but then it adds to the odometer. Oh well I guess I'll just have to collect a car to waste in practice mode one-make, no biggie.

 

[HKS racer]

GT5 Offline? It's all about arcade races, pro level no aids, hud off damage on, ect.. Once you accept Aspec Career is a Car Parking Sim (yeah it took me a while) you calm down a little and you'll start enjoying these races. The only shame you wont get any credits for that, but who cares, no longer need credits it's all about fun now.

 

[Golfman2]

I have sworn allegiance to PS3 and GT5, but that bond is starting to crumble. Why? Ive just seen the latest Forza game.....

 

[CSLACR]

I have sworn allegiance to PS3 and GT5, but that bond is starting to crumble. Why? Ive just seen the latest Forza game.....

 

[Skython]

AI definitely makes mistakes. I was in a Zonda R one make race at the Ring, I crashed and fell way behind in the Karussell. I was pushing to catch up and as I come out of a turn I suddenly see a massive cloud of smoke, and an AI driver emerging from it. I almost crashed as he turned into me but still. It's awesome to know AI make mistakes from driving fast, and not just general bad driving. 👍 PD. I placed 7th in that race after never catching up. And in Caterhams I managed 3rd after some minor mistakes. The AI is brilliant now! Compared to before.