Gran Turismo Sport Closed Beta Coming March 17: First the US, Then EU Region

[Saidur_Ali]

Because they don't brake or lift heavily.

It's a part of the ring that is known well as being a place you don't brake or lift at, as oversteer is the most likely result.

Lift was really similar to the GT SPORT gif posted, if not even more of a lift. Really similar in approach, small lift before flat out again. You don't think the S13 driver was braking heavily?

I know but at the same time a bit of patience goes a long way... he could have waited for me to regain complete control and then pass me.

also maybe it's just me but the Corvettes were really powerful on this track. the fact that the 2 races i used the car i was making passes left and right and even gaining on 1st

Not Denying im at fault. but at the same time he was in visible range of me the entire time. my issue with this guy was that instead of being patient enough to hold off (funny thing was this guy tried to take me out the previous race after i made a clean pass on him) he decides to spin me out anyway. heck I'm all for giving a spot up after something like this but how he handled it is whats ticking me off.

You should wait and rejoin track safely, the driver behind was already swerving all the way to the right to avoid you but you just joined back on the track without any care. The person looked to then swerve to try and avoid you and looks to have lost some control from that sudden movement and contact so potentially countersteering into you which caused you to spin out. They ended up on the other barrier side so I don't think it was intentional. I think you should be apologising to that driver for this incident than being ticked off as they gave you the space which some drivers might not do and still you rejoined in their way and caused them to have an accident.

 

[super_gt]

How come below car remains stable through that corner?

Lift was really similar to the GT SPORT gif posted, if not even more of a lift. Really similar in approach, small lift before flat out again. You don't think the S13 driver was braking heavily?

As you can see he does not lift as much as driver in GT,the difference is small but enough to avoid crash and he does not go over the curb.

Mid corner and he starts to apply throttle:

You don't think the S13 driver was braking heavily?

No,I think that he brake,lift the brake in mid corner and after the mid corner brake again.



The driver in the Golf stop braking before mid corner and his speed in mid corner is very low,he is not on the limit.

 

[SlimCharles]

tonight is a real good example of why ghosting should be allowed to an extent... my SR took massive hits in 2 races cause i got punted off by several people who were miles slower but didnt want to move out the way

Goshtening should not exist, it kills the essence of racing. Now it can be usefull (I seriously doubt it, is almost impossible to establish which crash will be by rammers or just a race incident with an automated system), but what when you hit higher SR classes and it is not necessary but it still ruins overtaking?

What you are suffering now, idiots ramming other cars, is suffered in IRacing too. The ideal way, like in Iracing, is to concentrate on not hitting nothing on the low SR classes. And then, when you get to higher classes, start racing and enjoying the game.

Online racing is very difficult to get well, so no system is perfect. But at least you can copy the best existing system. And Im sure goshtening didn't pass at all through the head of the creators of Iracing.

 

[Matej]

Goshtening should not exist, it kills the essence of racing.

At the same time it makes racing completely fair. Knowing no penalty system is flawless (unless it is combined with a human individual employed to monitor the race, hopefully they do this), basically we choose between the essence of racing with risk of dirty driving and unrealistic, but fair racing for everyone.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

At the same time it makes racing completely fair. Knowing no penalty system is flawless (unless it is combined with a human individual employed to monitor the race, hopefully they do this), basically we choose between the essence of racing with risk of dirty driving and unrealistic, but fair racing for everyone.

If ghosting is a consistent feature, removing the challenge of overtaking and dealing with other cars on the circuit, then there's no reason to even share the same track. Arguably, no real reason to do online racing at all: we can all run our laps in a time trial and load ghosts laps from our competitors on our own time.

Which, thanks to DexDrives and SharkPorts, is what we did in the PS1 and PS2 days, including with the old Board Challenges! It was fun, but I certainly wouldn't call that progress...

Not my best night and it was made worse by this incident:



This is going to be an apparent issue come release...i can see it happening...

You went off-track onto the left of the circuit, cut back onto the right side when rejoining, and then started moving towards the middle as a car was approaching. Watching the rearview, he even seems to change lines to the inside after you've went off... only to have a car show up in front of him.

The BMW is questionably at fault given the video provided, but you definitely are. You definitely came out worse for it though thanks to the spin, but it's not easy to tell if that was the other driver's intention from the view point of the video.

 

[Brewguy44]

If you miss a daily reward car is there another way to get it? or are you screwed out of getting it?

 

[cjr3559]

If you miss a daily reward car is there another way to get it? or are you screwed out of getting it?

I belive you are screwed. Gotta do the daily chores to get the rewards.

 

[KennyL74]

I'm getting screwed over because i'm European.

 

[Matej]

If ghosting is a consistent feature, removing the challenge of overtaking and dealing with other cars on the circuit, then there's no reason to even share the same track. Arguably, no real reason to do online racing at all: we can all run our laps in a time trial and load ghosts laps from our competitors on our own time.

I think fair racing is of crucial importance for popularity and validity of eSports and FIA events in GTS. I would never set ghosting as a consistent feature in regular lobbies (it would be optional), but for these big events it has to be considered because they will gather various drivers from 7 to 77, much of which are not professional drivers and aren't prepared to deal with unfair racing.

Unless the connection works properly, it's really hard to tell whether someone deliberately caused a havoc on the road or not... that's why I think ghosting is highly valuable.

 

[unit-one]

I belive you are screwed. Gotta do the daily chores to get the rewards.

What are the chores?

 

[rono_thomas]

I think fair racing is of crucial importance for popularity and validity of eSports and FIA events in GTS. I would never set ghosting as a consistent feature in regular lobbies (it would be optional), but for these big events it has to be considered because they will gather various drivers from 7 to 77, much of which are not professional drivers and aren't prepared to deal with unfair racing.

Unless the connection works properly, it's really hard to tell whether someone deliberately caused a havoc on the road or not... that's why I think ghosting is highly valuable.

@sems4arsenal and @SlipZtrEm have already mentioned a couple of the downsides to ghosting theres at least two more:

e.g you are the slowest qualifier, after a calamitous start the whole field crashes at turn 1 (really unlikely if ghosting is occurring) and you find yourself leading the pack after a lap theres a train of faster drivers queuing up behind you itching to get past so you adopt a defensive lines and then you systematically get picked off at every approaching corner because something in the game identifies you as a "risk" and ghosts you.

So we've watched the videos we've seen examples of this, the game is negating the race and the art of race craft, ghosting should have zero to do with esports and its going to damage the excitement from both a racers and spectators viewpoint. And above all it teaches no one anything to do with racecraft, you will end up with a bunch of esport competitors who have learnt to race and initiate a ghost to overtake.

 

[Brewguy44]

I belive you are screwed. Gotta do the daily chores to get the rewards.

Thats what I thought, Oh Well

What are the chores?

It's the daily workout you run with a car and drive it 26.2 miles and get rewarded with a car , that's put in your garage.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

As you can see he does not lift as much as driver in GT,the difference is small but enough to avoid crash and he does not go over the curb.

View attachment 636521
View attachment 636477

Mid corner and he starts to apply throttle:

View attachment 636478


No,I think that he brake,lift the brake in mid corner and after the mid corner brake again.



The driver in the Golf stop braking before mid corner and his speed in mid corner is very low,he is not on the limit.

I very much doubt a GT3 kind of car would crash as lift is small and it is not a sudden full lift, both very similar loss of speed. Aiming more to the left should lower chances of oversteering and crashing into the left barrier IMO. These are quite capable cars, I doubt there are many crashes with GT3 cars in such corners. Do you have a video of someone oversteering and crashing with a GT3 car, also at the other corner? Here is video of someone hitting kerb, very stable:




So a modified 200SX S13 that it is braking hard and maybe lifting off the brakes and reapplying it doesn't experience monstrous oversteer but you expect a GT3 kind of car to experience it driving under the limit for that corner and it is throttle blipping so partial throttle would have been applied near apex and you expect it to suffer monstrous oversteer? Do you have any real life videos of GT3 cars crashing in that corner due to suffering so much oversteer or at least showing so much oversteer while under braking through there?

 

[calvins48]

I very much doubt a GT3 kind of car would crash as lift is small and it is not a sudden full lift, both very similar loss of speed. Aiming more to the left should lower chances of oversteering and crashing into the left barrier IMO. These are quite capable cars, I doubt there are many crashes with GT3 cars in such corners. Do you have a video of someone oversteering and crashing with a GT3 car, also at the other corner? Here is video of someone hitting kerb, very stable:




So a modified 200SX S13 that it is braking hard and maybe lifting off the brakes and reapplying it doesn't experience monstrous oversteer but you expect a GT3 kind of car to experience it driving under the limit for that corner and it is throttle blipping so partial throttle would have been applied near apex and you expect it to suffer monstrous oversteer? Do you have any real life videos of GT3 cars crashing in that corner due to suffering so much oversteer or at least showing so much oversteer while under braking through there?

This part of that video was awesome:

 

[littleregret265]

I know but at the same time a bit of patience goes a long way... he could have waited for me to regain complete control and then pass me.

also maybe it's just me but the Corvettes were really powerful on this track. the fact that the 2 races i used the car i was making passes left and right and even gaining on 1st

It was kind of crappy of him to hit you the second time and spin you out (assuming that was his intent and not just netcode), but stuff like that happens every now and again. Just watch the rejoin

 

[Matej]

e.g you are the slowest qualifier, after a calamitous start the whole field crashes at turn 1 (really unlikely if ghosting is occurring) and you find yourself leading the pack after a lap theres a train of faster drivers queuing up behind you itching to get past so you adopt a defensive lines and then you systematically get picked off at every approaching corner because something in the game identifies you as a "risk" and ghosts you.

How could you tell defensive line the driver is using is within the rules of racing? It's hard to say unless the connection is perfect or at least very good. The same goes for brake-checking, wall riding or using other cars as bouncing barriers. It may be intentional, but it may be an accident as well.

Ghosting every single car on track permanently would eliminate concerns about dirty driving. It isn't realistic, but at least people could race for the trophy without needing to worry about sloppy drivers. If you don't like ghosting, you can still turn it off in normal lobbies.

ghosting should have zero to do with esports and its going to damage the excitement from both a racers and spectators viewpoint.

What do you think is more important - excitement or fairness? Because we won't get both, unless they employ a human to monitor races or every single driver on the grid plays nicely.

 

[calvins48]

Ghosting every single car on track permanently would eliminate concerns about dirty driving. It isn't realistic, but at least people could race for the trophy without needing to worry about sloppy drivers. If you don't like ghosting, you can still turn it off in normal lobbies.

GTA Online has a mode for this when doing races online. I admit that it's a relief when it's turned on, but the victory feels a tad hollow as I feel I didn't work as hard for it because I could just drive straight through the slower guys rather than orchestrating an overtaking move.

GTA Online probably has the most dirty racers on PS4. But it's part of the package. You go into a random online race knowing full well that you'll probably be taken out before turn 1.

I don't expect it so much in GT but 'lopers can be found everywhere!

 

[diesel97]

People need to remember that the driver rating is supposed to take care of this problem. Match making should not put the punters/ghosters in the same lobby as non-punters/ghosters.

 

[Theufcveteran]

@marvthegamer is back for day 9 of the GT Sport Beta!

 

[rono_thomas]

How could you tell defensive line the driver is using is within the rules of racing? It's hard to say unless the connection is perfect or at least very good. The same goes for brake-checking, wall riding or using other cars as bouncing barriers. It may be intentional, but it may be an accident as well.

Ive been watching videos where all these scenarios occur sometimes ghosting sometimes not, so it's inconsistent and as difficult for the games algorithm to work out when it should ghost or not.

When wether a ghost should occur or not is largely down to perspective how will the game get it right in the interest of fairness, it wont, I do think I have a solution which I'll get to.

Ghosting every single car on track permanently would eliminate concerns about dirty driving. It isn't realistic, but at least people could race for the trophy without needing to worry about sloppy drivers.

It isn't realistic no, but neither is this racing, and I may be alone in this opinion, but i feel the simulation that esports racing is trying to emulate, would mean being able to drive through cars falls way short and lead to very boring races and near enough the sane winner each time.

If you don't like ghosting, you can still turn it off in normal lobbies.

As somebody who only raced in full damage no penalties GT6 lobbies I'm sure i would, but it's the ghosting that I'm seeing in GTS's sports mode, esports presumably that's got me bothered.

What do you think is more important - excitement or fairness? Because we won't get both, unless they employ a human to monitor races or every single driver on the grid plays nicely.

Obviously it needs to be exciting, must be exciting or interest of the top players will wane.

I guess the major point that us bugging me is that you can drive through cars without penalty, if ghost has to be, driving through others is definitely a no no. Apply a penalty either during the race ir post race, either way promote fun exciting racing not boring unrealistic.

 

[Matej]

Obviously it needs to be exciting, must be exciting or interest of the top players will wane.

I agree it has to be exciting, but top drivers will wane even quicker if they can't rely on system to punish unfair racing.

I guess the major point that us bugging me is that you can drive through cars without penalty, if ghost has to be, driving through others is definitely a no no. Apply a penalty either during the race ir post race, either way promote fun exciting racing not boring unrealistic.

I would consider turning everyone into ghosts and adding post-race penalties every time you try to pass through a ghost. The value for penalty would depend on how deep you "penetrate" into a car.

We'll see what happens, it's too early to say anything.

 

[super_gt]

Spoiler: Crash videos

I very much doubt a GT3 kind of car would crash as lift is small and it is not a sudden full lift, both very similar loss of speed. Aiming more to the left should lower chances of oversteering and crashing into the left barrier IMO. These are quite capable cars, I doubt there are many crashes with GT3 cars in such corners. Do you have a video of someone oversteering and crashing with a GT3 car, also at the other corner? Here is video of someone hitting kerb, very stable:

Here is how real GT3 cars go through this corner (brake one gear down and drive the corner with throttle)



This 12C GT3 looks very "stable''

Here is video of someone hitting kerb, very stable

In my opinion not he does not touch the curb at all.On the other hand half of the Mitsubishi is over the curb/grass.

Do you have any real life videos of GT3 cars crashing in that corner due to suffering so much oversteer or at least showing so much oversteer while under braking through there?

The only reason cars to oversteer in this corner is braking too hard too late.

 

[dimassa19]

Hey @marvthegamer, Nurburgring catch you!

 

[leigh991]

in arcade mode brands hatch is the only playable circuit? im not complaining just wondering

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Here is how real GT3 cars go through this corner (brake one gear down and drive the corner with throttle)



This 12C GT3 looks very "stable''



In my opinion not he does not touch the curb at all.On the other hand half of the Mitsubishi is over the curb/grass.

The only reason cars to oversteer in this corner is braking too hard too late.

That video isn't of a proper GT3 car AFAIK, video below it is which is not braking down one gear and indeed looks stable to me. Driver isn't a super smooth one though.

I can hear kerb sound.

That first video looks like someone crashed into the other. Second one isn't a GT3 car, hard to tell what happened there as looked like lost control already maybe trying to carry too much speed and overcooked it, could be many factors. Third one doesn't look like a GT3 car, correct me if it is and driver seems to lose it under acceleration on that compression, not braking as it looked controlled and going slowly already for that corner. Looking back at that video as well at another incident, looks like driver carried way too much speed and maybe tried to brake but too late already then or maybe a brake failure before corner.

 

[cjr3559]

in arcade mode brands hatch is the only playable circuit? im not complaining just wondering

It's the only available circuit in Arcade mode.

 

[super_gt]

@Saidur_Ali It was a pleasure to argue with you but to me it's time to stop.

 

[Lord Protector]

EU beta sign ups are closed again

 

[SkyArkz23]

Turn 1 of brands hatch...


so much salt....

 

[dimassa19]

@TNR_5zigen, 6:39.647!