Gran Turismo Sport Cross Over To A Real Simulator To Satisfy The Wheel Market

[Pigems]

When I’m racing someone, the very last thing on my mind is what device they are using to control their car.

 

[Junkman55]

GTS has the best of two ranking systems the Alphabet Gamer can play for points and a Qualifying system for racing online . I like the Qualifying system it can put you in a online race with peers of similar skills and have a race day without worrying about a ABC ranking system . Lets be thankful that GTS has a place for all of its drivers .

 

[Famine]

I like the Qualifying system it can put you in a online race with peers of similar skills

Just so you know, qualifying is irrelevant. You're matched on SR, then grouped by DR - the game finds all the players it can on SR 95-99, and places them together in lobbies according to their DR, starting with the highest. Then it moves down to the next SR bracket and does it again. It keeps doing that until it's run out of players.

Your qualifying time makes absolutely no difference to this process.

 

[watto79]

We're not doing the whole "alphabet driver" thing again are we? That thing that Junkman isn't a part of because he's a D driver and that's not part of the alphabet or something?

I forget the exact definition. It was very confusing the first couple of times around.

I'll come back in a week or so when we're back on "sim racers aren't gamers".

 

[MaxAttack]

We're not doing the whole "alphabet driver" thing again are we? That thing that Junkman isn't a part of because he's a D driver and that's not part of the alphabet or something?

I forget the exact definition. It was very confusing the first couple of times around.

I'll come back in a week or so when we're back on "sim racers aren't gamers".

I only need three (two) letters to set an unbeatable lap...

D D R

 

[O604]

GTS has the best of two ranking systems the Alphabet Gamer can play for points and a Qualifying system for racing online . I like the Qualifying system it can put you in a online race with peers of similar skills and have a race day without worrying about a ABC ranking system . Lets be thankful that GTS has a place for all of its drivers .

You don't even know how basic matchmaking works now. But you want to change it.

Alphabet Gamer? That would be Stadia, owned by Google, parent company is Alphabet.

But hey keep speaking your own made up language. It's sadly entertaining.

 

[Darla Starch]

We're not doing the whole "alphabet driver" thing again are we? That thing that Junkman isn't a part of because he's a D driver and that's not part of the alphabet or something?

I forget the exact definition. It was very confusing the first couple of times around.

I'll come back in a week or so when we're back on "sim racers aren't gamers".

Follow up "sim racers aren't gamers" with "more money spent is the only way to more immersion" and the cycle is complete.

As for

GTS has the best of two ranking systems the Alphabet Gamer can play for points and a Qualifying system for racing online . I like the Qualifying system it can put you in a online race with peers of similar skills and have a race day without worrying about a ABC ranking system . Lets be thankful that GTS has a place for all of its drivers .

 

[mirial]

If you're talking about offering more sim based racing options for everyone to race in, like longer races with realistic speed tyre and fuel wear or something like that, then sure, they should give them a try and see how popular they are.

I'd mentioned at the beginning a few days ago that I defined separation by the level of difficulty in sport mode. This would typically involve cars from Gr.3 and up, longer races, tyre wear, open settings, rain etc., and not by the hardware used. Currently in all sport mode events, there isn't a huge increase in the level of difficulty, presumably to encourage beginners and to try to minimise the gap to the frontrunners. The front runners will still continue to win regardless of how much you try to slow them down as has been seen at the world tour events with the same names appearing.

To the best of my knowledge, there have been only two sport mode events in the history of GTS that have comprised of these regulations and I believe the numbers and interest was good at the time which means PD are alienating players that want that.

 

[Timm Sheehan]

The whole point of any skill based ranking system is to try and match players of equal skill no matter what, whether they're a child or an OAP, controller or wheel, fully able bodied or disabled. If someone is at the same pace as you, why would you not want to race them, solely because of some difference that you can't even see?

If you're talking about offering more sim based racing options for everyone to race in, like longer races with realistic speed tyre and fuel wear or something like that, then sure, they should give them a try and see how popular they are.

But there is absolutely no need to test out segregation based on anything other than overall skill.

As an officially self labeled "OAP" (although I prefer OAF) I welcome the idea of letting the kids play by themselves.

 

[O604]

Not sure if anyone cares but another reason for no wireless wheels seems to be problems with multiple signals with older versions of BT. Since the DS4 is always on, another wireless controller such as a wheel would cause a conflict.

Newer versions they claim "know when the signal is going to be sent" as opposed to "always looking" cutting down on conflicts and power usage.

I assume it's the same reason BT sound drivers and other devices are not compatible.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

I'd mentioned at the beginning a few days ago that I defined separation by the level of difficulty in sport mode. This would typically involve cars from Gr.3 and up, longer races, tyre wear, open settings, rain etc., and not by the hardware used. Currently in all sport mode events, there isn't a huge increase in the level of difficulty, presumably to encourage beginners and to try to minimise the gap to the frontrunners. The front runners will still continue to win regardless of how much you try to slow them down as has been seen at the world tour events with the same names appearing.

To the best of my knowledge, there have been only two sport mode events in the history of GTS that have comprised of these regulations and I believe the numbers and interest was good at the time which means PD are alienating players that want that.

I suspect the reason they stay away from that is that as soon as they did a FIA race with adjustable settings the trading for money for setup started.
And guess what, PD does obviously not want GTS to be pay to win.

 

[mirial]

I suspect the reason they stay away from that is that as soon as they did a FIA race with adjustable settings the trading for money for setup started.
And guess what, PD does obviously not want GTS to be pay to win.

That's probably the reason, and whilst I and a few others would see that as a challenge and share setups I can understand why when it gets extreme like that why people walk away as well. Considering that, I think PD should seriously consider a choice of of 2 or 3 fixed setups for cars selected for sport mode like ACC, with perhaps the setups that understeer a slight increase in PP for fairness.

 

[CBH]

All Sport Mode and all Time Trials events, should be all Open settings and that means no more Fixed settings ever, and this will separate the men from the boy's.

 

[Redneckchef]

All Sport Mode and all Time Trials events, should be all Open settings and that means no more Fixed settings ever, and this will separate the men from the boy's.

This will only separate the tuners from everyone else. I understand the desire to get more from the cars, and I applaud people who can work real magic tuning these things, but most people dont have the time to get in depth with that at a level needed to keep up. The goal of GTS to be a pick up and jump in type of game makes this a complete U-turn from what they want to be. That said, you have the tuner Time Trials. They've only had 1 FIA and 1 daily that allowed tuning from what I remember. That should tell you that the results from engagement with those rounds told PD it wasnt worth it.

Why is it not good enough that driving skill is measured in how you get the most out of the equipment you have? Sort of like it is in the real world?

I'm not against them adding a 4th daily that allows tuning, but I can think it would be a long time before it was popular. And again, these sorts of lobbies exist for other games that market to other types of players, maybe they are what you want.

 

[seadog777]

Not sure if anyone cares but another reason for no wireless wheels seems to be problems with multiple signals with older versions of BT. Since the DS4 is always on, another wireless controller such as a wheel would cause a conflict.

Newer versions they claim "know when the signal is going to be sent" as opposed to "always looking" cutting down on conflicts and power usage.

I assume it's the same reason BT sound drivers and other devices are not compatible.

I had this one many years ago (I think it came out in 2010), it was great, but obviously not so much wireless interference back then.

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[CBH]

This will only separate the tuners from everyone else. I understand the desire to get more from the cars, and I applaud people who can work real magic tuning these things, but most people dont have the time to get in depth with that at a level needed to keep up. The goal of GTS to be a pick up and jump in type of game makes this a complete U-turn from what they want to be. That said, you have the tuner Time Trials. They've only had 1 FIA and 1 daily that allowed tuning from what I remember. That should tell you that the results from engagement with those rounds told PD it wasnt worth it.

Why is it not good enough that driving skill is measured in how you get the most out of the equipment you have? Sort of like it is in the real world?

I'm not against them adding a 4th daily that allows tuning, but I can think it would be a long time before it was popular. And again, these sorts of lobbies exist for other games that market to other types of players, maybe they are what you want.

People who have not got the time and know how on how to tune a certain car, well they can look in the Tuning forum for that car setup to go online.
In GT6 tuning forum was alive and very strong, in GTS tuning forum is Dead because you can not take that tune car you fine for online racing. If Sport Mode had all tuning allowed in all events, then GTS forum would have been alive and very strong like it was in GT6.
There are a lot and I mean a lot of tuners I know that did not bother about GTS, because there was nothing for them to do when it came for online racing, but I hope they come back for GT7. If GT7 online type Sport Mode is the same as GTS, well it is sadly going to be like a GTS forum a dead one.

 

[Redneckchef]

People who have not got the time and know how on how to tune a certain car, well they can look in the Tuning forum for that car setup to go online.
In GT6 tuning forum was alive and very strong, in GTS tuning forum is Dead because you can not take that tune car you fine for online racing. If Sport Mode had all tuning allowed in all events, then GTS forum would have been alive and very strong like it was in GT6.
There are a lot and I mean a lot of tuners I know that did not bother about GTS, because there was nothing for them to do when it came for online racing, but I hope they come back for GT7. If GT7 online type Sport Mode is the same as GTS, well it is sadly going to be like a GTS forum a dead one.

I repeat that I am not against tuning for a daily, either a 4th option or as 1 every few weeks. But as someone who used to love playing with the tuning and making the best out of the cars back in the dark ages of GT-GT4, I dont see the mass appeal remaining now that people have adjusted to what is more or less spec racing.

I could easily be wrong and I know tuning used to be a huge part of the game. It does still have a respectable sized community as well. But it is my opinion that to bring back a large amount of the tuning aspect would drive away a lot more people than it would bring back. It sounds bad, but I would much rather know I've been beaten by the skill of someone handling a car like mine rather than wonder if they've got all sorts of new tuning tricks.

I'm usually happy to be proven wrong (as mainly I want to know for sure), but in this case I personally wouldnt want to be proven wrong as it would mean a seismic shift in playing style and the time spent searching for tunes and tweaking them would greatly outweigh the time spent actually racing.

 

[CBH]

I repeat that I am not against tuning for a daily, either a 4th option or as 1 every few weeks. But as someone who used to love playing with the tuning and making the best out of the cars back in the dark ages of GT-GT4, I dont see the mass appeal remaining now that people have adjusted to what is more or less spec racing.

I could easily be wrong and I know tuning used to be a huge part of the game. It does still have a respectable sized community as well. But it is my opinion that to bring back a large amount of the tuning aspect would drive away a lot more people than it would bring back. It sounds bad, but I would much rather know I've been beaten by the skill of someone handling a car like mine rather than wonder if they've got all sorts of new tuning tricks.

I'm usually happy to be proven wrong (as mainly I want to know for sure), but in this case I personally wouldnt want to be proven wrong as it would mean a seismic shift in playing style and the time spent searching for tunes and tweaking them would greatly outweigh the time spent actually racing.

I like to say many thanks to PD for turning away many and I mean of good people because of no tuning in GTS online, and PD calls it the Real Driving Simulator which is not. If GT7 have a seasonal type races like it was for online racing for GT6, then I have no problem in that.
No tuning in any events online is not a Real Driving Simulator.

So to go off topic a bit @Redneckchef

 

[Redneckchef]

I like to say many thanks to PD for turning away many and I mean of good people because of no tuning in GTS online, and PD calls it the Real Driving Simulator which is not. If GT7 have a seasonal type races like it was for online racing for GT6, then I have no problem in that.
No tuning in any events online is not a Real Driving Simulator.

So to go off topic a bit @Redneckchef

While I disagree about how important tuning is to the GT community, i would much rather be discussing the pros and cons of this rather than trying to argue about random distinctions based on input methods. Tuning has admittedly been a big part of GT since the inception of the series so I know the pulling it out of GT Sport was a big shock. I was shocked when I first booted up the game as well. But I think it is a worthwhile debate about how important it is to the game and is there a good middle path for integrating it back into the online portion without alienating the newer fanbase.

 

[CBH]

While I disagree about how important tuning is to the GT community, i would much rather be discussing the pros and cons of this rather than trying to argue about random distinctions based on input methods. Tuning has admittedly been a big part of GT since the inception of the series so I know the pulling it out of GT Sport was a big shock. I was shocked when I first booted up the game as well. But I think it is a worthwhile debate about how important it is to the game and is there a good middle path for integrating it back into the online portion without alienating the newer fanbase.

Tuning was important to the GT community for GT5 & 6, but died of a sudden a death in GTS because of a lack of tuning online.
If you know nothing about tuning we are always here to help, but not for GTS thanks to PD going in the wrong direction.

 

[Kermit_2142]

Tuning would kill daily races and/or everyone would end up running the same tune anyway.

edit : @fordlaser, if your a pro tuner from before you should be able to tune in gts now? Or is it that you need to learn the quirks and glitches to get the most out of gts setups to manipulate the physics in some way. Like raising front ride height can give more top speed for example. If this is the case then as per every other racing game, tuning is pointless when it can break the physics like that and would even further break sport mode.

edit 2: That’s not to say I’m against tuning. I have entered and hosted races with tuning allowed and found it enjoyable, however when we are talking sport mode which leads all the way to the world tour, it’s inevitable that tuning would be abused and/or become pay to win.

 

[daan]

I only need three (two) letters to set an unbeatable lap...

D D R

If East German's are so much faster than everyone else, then they should have their own races.

 

[Timm Sheehan]

All Sport Mode and all Time Trials events, should be all Open settings and that means no more Fixed settings ever, and this will separate the men from the boy's.

In PC2 (which I love to race) you have to have some knowledge of tuning in order to compete on the average level. I do agree tuning would open up another aspect to racing in GTS but I am one of those who likes the BoP races where I can pick a ca and race without too much thought.

 

[Timm Sheehan]

If East German's are so much faster than everyone else, then they should have their own races.

So is that another suggestion on how we can separate the races out?

 

[CBH]

Tuning would kill daily races and/or everyone would end up running the same tune anyway.

edit : @fordlaser, if your a pro tuner from before you should be able to tune in gts now? Or is it that you need to learn the quirks and glitches to get the most out of gts setups to manipulate the physics in some way. Like raising front ride height can give more top speed for example. If this is the case then as per every other racing game, tuning is pointless when it can break the physics like that and would even further break sport mode.

edit 2: That’s not to say I’m against tuning. I have entered and hosted races with tuning allowed and found it enjoyable, however when we are talking sport mode which leads all the way to the world tour, it’s inevitable that tuning would be abused and/or become pay to win.

I totally disagree with you about everyone would end up running the same tune in daily races, is because everyone has a different driving style right. I can use a tune from someone else and it would not suit me, so I have to change a few things on the car setup.

I can tune in GTS but there is nothing to do because of a lack tuning online, like in Sport Mode and the daily races.

Raising the front ride height it all depends on the type of car in being used, most of my cars have front ride height. Raising the front ride height gives you more traction that what we have found, but no one really knows if raising the front ride height gives you better top speed.

 

[MaxAttack]

I totally disagree with you about everyone would end up running the same tune in daily races, is because everyone has a different driving style right. I can use a tune from someone else and it would not suit me, so I have to change a few things on the car setup.

I can tune in GTS but there is nothing to do because of a lack tuning online, like in Sport Mode and the daily races.

Raising the front ride height it all depends on the type of car in being used, most of my cars have front ride height. Raising the front ride height gives you more traction that what we have found, but no one really knows if raising the front ride height gives you better top speed.

Mmmmm... Yeah, nah, most people would gravitate to the same tune, and they'd come out weekly on some guy's YouTube channel, which would swiftly become gospel for anyone wanting to race, so all that would be really achieved is there'd be more prep time for races, further skewing the action against people with limited time to race due to jobs and lives and whatever else.

After the actual horror show of Discord PMs, paid tunes and rumour swirling that surrounded the tuning race for the F1500-T in FIA Nations, it should be abundantly clear to anyone with half a brain why fixed setups are the only reasonable approach for a game with as much rampant tryharding and gatekeeping from the top of the playerbase as this one.

 

[watto79]

I totally disagree with you about everyone would end up running the same tune in daily races, is because everyone has a different driving style right. I can use a tune from someone else and it would not suit me, so I have to change a few things on the car setup.

I can tune in GTS but there is nothing to do because of a lack tuning online, like in Sport Mode and the daily races.

Raising the front ride height it all depends on the type of car in being used, most of my cars have front ride height. Raising the front ride height gives you more traction that what we have found, but no one really knows if raising the front ride height gives you better top speed.

The few times tuning has been allowed in Sport Mode, everyone ended up using the same tune.

 

[Kermit_2142]

Mmmmm... Yeah, nah, most people would gravitate to the same tune, and they'd come out weekly on some guy's YouTube channel, which would swiftly become gospel for anyone wanting to race, so all that would be really achieved is there'd be more prep time for races, further skewing the action against people with limited time to race due to jobs and lives and whatever else.

After the actual horror show of Discord PMs, paid tunes and rumour swirling that surrounded the tuning race for the F1500-T in FIA Nations, it should be abundantly clear to anyone with half a brain why fixed setups are the only reasonable approach for a game with as much rampant tryharding and gatekeeping from the top of the playerbase as this one.

Exactly, the majority already pick the meta car, it’s clear they would also choose the meta setup.

I totally disagree with you about everyone would end up running the same tune in daily races, is because everyone has a different driving style right. I can use a tune from someone else and it would not suit me, so I have to change a few things on the car setup.

I can tune in GTS but there is nothing to do because of a lack tuning online, like in Sport Mode and the daily races.

Raising the front ride height it all depends on the type of car in being used, most of my cars have front ride height. Raising the front ride height gives you more traction that what we have found, but no one really knows if raising the front ride height gives you better top speed.

If a car with its bop setups doesn’t suit a track for you, you can already choose a different car, this is why they all have varying capabilities and character. The driver must adjust themselves to the car as it is.

If that isn’t the definition of skill then I don’t know what is.

I fully get the want for tuning but let’s take the fia season. How would you feel if you were a faster driver than myself and you put 10 hours into perfecting your tune for a race but I came along with xyz’s tune off of eBay and smashed you into oblivion? Then add on top, you later found out that it was using a weird setup glitch that has only been found because some tuning person has put 3000hours into just trying to break the physics model to gain an edge…

Fixed setups are the best compromise for close racing in a skill based matchmaking system.

edit : spellings 🤮

 

[toastet]

If you want to tune, just play iRacing, Forza 7, ACC, etc. All with the same problem that you can invest many hours refining your tune and still get trashed or just download, or in cases like iRacing or ACC, buy your tunes. But just going away from those hardcore sims tuning just doesn't do Forza 7 a favor. And it would be the same in GTS/GT7. Just the wrong type of game with the simcade base to just do a quick 1-2 hour session after work. Like many people said before the few events with individual setups allowed in GTS were just bad.

 

[Groundfish]

All Sport Mode and all Time Trials events, should be all Open settings and that means no more Fixed settings ever, and this will separate the men from the boy's.

People who have not got the time and know how on how to tune a certain car, well they can look in the Tuning forum for that car setup to go online.

totally disagree with you about everyone would end up running the same tune in daily races, is because everyone has a different driving style right. I can use a tune from someone else and it would not suit me, so I have to change a few things on the car setup.

Wait-first you said players should look to forums to grab tunes
Then you mention everyone drives differently and needs to adjust
Uhhhh contradiction?

Mmmmm... Yeah, nah, most people would gravitate to the same tune, and they'd come out weekly on some guy's YouTube channel, which would swiftly become gospel for anyone wanting to race, so all that would be really achieved is there'd be more prep time for races, further skewing the action against people with limited time to race due to jobs and lives and whatever else.

After the actual horror show of Discord PMs, paid tunes and rumour swirling that surrounded the tuning race for the F1500-T in FIA Nations, it should be abundantly clear to anyone with half a brain why fixed setups are the only reasonable approach for a game with as much rampant tryharding and gatekeeping from the top of the playerbase as this one.

Yeah GTS has a big strength in that there’s no tuning. It’s fair. There’s almost no cases where players can cheat.
Also like above he claimed “allowing tuning separates men from boys”

LOL He may as well have said “I don’t play online because I am unable to gain unfair advantage by finding glitches in the game tuning and exploiting them.”

So now we have wheel elitism plus tuning elitism.
Adding tuning would make the game less fair and more time required.
Participation would drop further.
How fun would that be to jump in for a few races after work and have guys with tuned gearboxes walking away into the sunset?
That’s make me turn it off-meanwhile the guy out front whose spent days tweaking the tune could pat himself on the back for being a man amongst boys
smh