Gran Turismo World Series (Manufacturers Cup Exhibition Season: Feb 5 - Feb 15)

[CMB350]

Chaos and mayhem sums up America slot 1 in GT2. Hard to tell if it was dirty driving or stupid driving, but got spun out, rammed out or pushed out all race long. Went from Q3 to P8 running IM the whole race. There was a time or 2 when full wets would have been better. Oh well, may run again.

It seems this was a common theme the whole day.

I only had time for the last slot in GT2. It was a mess. I should’ve had P8, but made a mistake in Galgenkopf on lap 3 and got passed for a P12 finish. Talk about frustrating when only having one shot at the race.

 

[Moose78]

I'm curious how the Hyundai VGT would do here. I didn't test it yet because I don't own one. But I think I'll pick one up later and give it a go.

So I did, and it turns out the N 2025 (a.k.a Hyundai VGT) is even better for me in the rain than the LM55. In the moderate rain on IMs, I finished my 3-lap test in 10:54.754 (versus the LM55's 11:02.304). In the heavy rain with Ws, 12:03.275 (versus 12:11.125).

It seems I've found myself a car for the week.

Next up, tuning and practice custom races.

 

[Roggers]

I tried a few of the cars in some 3-lap races with rain yesterday, and the results confirm what many of you have already been saying.

Car	Heavy rain (R07); Wet tires	Moderate rain (R04); Intermediate tires
Porsche 962 C	12:41.166	11:04.156
Toyota GR010	12:39.151	11:08.562
Mazda LM55	12:11.125	11:02.304

The LM55 is a monster in the rain. The heavier the rain, the bigger the advantage, it seems.

In moderate rain, the LM55 still wins, but not by much. In fact, moderate rain seems to be something of an equalizer between the Gr.C cars and the others.

I chose the Porsche somewhat arbitrarily as representative of the Gr.C cars. I'm sure they all vary to some degree, but I don't really feel it is worth the time to try them all.

I'm curious how the Hyundai VGT would do here. I didn't test it yet because I don't own one. But I think I'll pick one up later and give it a go.

I'm convinced we are going to get rain in the race, so I'm leaning toward going with the LM55 or Hyundai as my go-to car for the rest of the week. We'll see how the Hyundai compares when I do my rain tests.

What are the Hyundai and LM55 like in dry weather? You just know that PD will throw in dynamic weather and if it is dynamic weather does that influence your car choice?

I was looking forward to this race, but the more information I keep finding out about the more I’m losing interest in it for some reason.

 

[Moose78]

What are the Hyundai and LM55 like in dry weather? You just know that PD will throw in dynamic weather and if it is dynamic weather does that influence your car choice?

I find both cars very pleasant to drive in dry weather. Both do well in the corners, but lack the top speed of the Gr.C cars, at least with the default settings.

The Hyundai was the fastest car for me outside of the Gr.C cars. I was hitting a 3:25.184 optimal time with it versus 3:24.xxx for most of the Gr.C cars.

I couldn't get the LM55 around the track as fast. I was only hitting 3:27.357 optimal time with it. But that was with the default settings. I think somebody mentioned earlier in the the threat that they had managed to tune it to be close to the R92C, though,
so it might just be a matter of tweaking the settings to get there.

As for dynamic weather, my plan is to check in on this thread first thing on Saturday morning to find out what happened in the earlier Asia and Europe slots. If the races are predominantly dry, I might decide to switch to a Gr.C car and try to get some practice in before
the races start in the Americas.

 

[SPL170db]

I find both cars very pleasant to drive in dry weather. Both do well in the corners, but lack the top speed of the Gr.C cars, at least with the default settings.

The Hyundai was the fastest car for me outside of the Gr.C cars. I was hitting a 3:25.184 optimal time with it versus 3:24.xxx for most of the Gr.C cars.

I couldn't get the LM55 around the track as fast. I was only hitting 3:27.357 optimal time with it. But that was with the default settings. I think somebody mentioned earlier in the the threat that they had managed to tune it to be close to the R92C, though,
so it might just be a matter of tweaking the settings to get there.

As for dynamic weather, my plan is to check in on this thread first thing on Saturday morning to find out what happened in the earlier Asia and Europe slots. If the races are predominantly dry, I might decide to switch to a Gr.C car and try to get some practice in before
the races start in the Americas.

On the LM55 try dropping the downforce as low as it will go (this will get you more top end speed) and soften the dampers 4-5 clicks on compression and up the rebound 2-3 clicks and see how that works for you. The softer compression will let it run over the kerbs a bit more without upsetting the car as much. See how that feels for you.

 

[D_Dragline]

I love Le Mans and Group 1 cars, so this should be fun.

My fastest FP lap is a 3:18.1xx in an aero tuned Hyundai. I can get the R92CP around in a mid 18, but that was with only some very perfunctory aero tuning, so I suspect 17s are possible. The 787B is also good for a high 18.

The LM55 will do a low 19 for me, but the settings are right on the edge for my driving style and I don't think it will be a stable option for me in-race.

I can't get any of the hybrids below 3:21.

I was very surprised to find that there is around 5 seconds per lap to be gained just by adjusting downforce.

I expect I will end up in the Hyundai as it's quick in the dry and should be much better to manage in the wet if that proves to be a factor.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

It just so happens the 787B is available now (at an inflated price of 3,300,000 Cr.), and the R92CP is due next in Hagerty's rotation (down to the launch price of 2,000,000 Cr.). The Jag will be disappearing momentarily (and likely will be gone by the time you see this), while the Sauber is also available now. Unless you already have the 962, forget about it - it's not due again until December, so if it's not the upcoming special pick, you won't be able to get it.

Don't worry mate, I got all the cars already (two each in fact - 1 billion credits and counting lol). I just prefer to test using loaner cars to avoid putting too many miles on my garage cars and having to pay for maintenance

 

[GlockPants]

Don't worry mate, I got all the cars already (two each in fact - 1 billion credits and counting lol). I just prefer to test using loaner cars to avoid putting too many miles on my garage cars and having to pay for maintenance

You don't get rich spending your own money, after all.

 

[Moose78]

My fastest FP lap is a 3:18.1xx in an aero tuned Hyundai. I can get the R92CP around in a mid 18, but that was with only some very perfunctory aero tuning, so I suspect 17s are possible. The 787B is also good for a high 18.

With some aero tuning on the Hyundai, I've also managed to handily beat my previous fastest FP lap set with a Gr.C car -- 3:23.172 now, down from 3:24.814 (set with the XJR-9). I think I may have been the beneficiary of a magic session on that one, though. It came after a 25-point adjustment to the front downforce, and resulted in lap time improvements that seemed unreasonably large for such a small change.

What step size do you all use for downforce tuning, btw? I started with steps of 100, but this dramatic change from a 25-point step has me wondering if I should be using smaller ones.

I feel like I might need to work on a set of aero tunes for different weather conditions. My expectation is that, like last week's Manu, we'll only have a dry track for qualifying and spent the race in the rain. My guess is that I'm going to need stronger downforce in the rain to get the most out of the car.

Does anybody have any tips for tuning for weather? I'll need to use either custom races or multiplayer lobby practice to control the weather. Is there a way to get the optimal lap time out of either of those after a race/session like you get from time trial sessions? I suppose I could just pause a custom race and read it off the MFD. Is there a more elegant way?

 

[Pfei]

Wrong thread!

 

[D_Dragline]

With some aero tuning on the Hyundai, I've also managed to handily beat my previous fastest FP lap set with a Gr.C car -- 3:23.172 now, down from 3:24.814 (set with the XJR-9). I think I may have been the beneficiary of a magic session on that one, though. It came after a 25-point adjustment to the front downforce, and resulted in lap time improvements that seemed unreasonably large for such a small change.

What step size do you all use for downforce tuning, btw? I started with steps of 100, but this dramatic change from a 25-point step has me wondering if I should be using smaller ones.

I feel like I might need to work on a set of aero tunes for different weather conditions. My expectation is that, like last week's Manu, we'll only have a dry track for qualifying and spent the race in the rain. My guess is that I'm going to need stronger downforce in the rain to get the most out of the car.

Does anybody have any tips for tuning for weather? I'll need to use either custom races or multiplayer lobby practice to control the weather. Is there a way to get the optimal lap time out of either of those after a race/session like you get from time trial sessions? I suppose I could just pause a custom race and read it off the MFD. Is there a more elegant way?

Small aero changes can have a big impact because they affect the overall balance of the car. For the Hyundai, I have tuned the rear downforce to be just enough to avoid the back sliding through the Porsche curves. Indianapolis will give you an earlier warning* if you've done something very wrong.





* - It's really more of a "catastrophic loss of control resulting in certain death" than a "warning".

 

[Met Entso]

In the next manufacturer if RH is mandatory, this means no rain?

 

[RobertHammer]

In the next manufacturer if RH is mandatory, this means no rain?

Grand Valley doesn't have rain so yeah

 

[Met Entso]

Grand Valley doesn't have rain so yeah

Thank you

 

[Moose78]

For the Hyundai, I have tuned the rear downforce to be just enough to avoid the back sliding through the Porsche curves. Indianapolis will give you an earlier warning* if you've done something very wrong.

Oh yes, I have become quite familiar with the "Indianapolis warning" now. I have to remind myself every time I go into that corner to brake in a straight line -- a really straight line.

I did some additional aero tuning for the Hyundai in moderate rain (R04) on IM tires and managed to shave a couple seconds off my optimal time (starting from my dry-weather tune). Sitting at 3:31.441 now. I feel like there is still some room for improvement there, but I'll leave the fine tuning for later in the week.

Going to try to focus on a tune for heavy rain (R07) on W tires tonight.

I've also been deliberating if I should start working on a dry-weather tune for one of the Gr.C cars in case the race ends up just being a high-speed blast in the sun.

It's starting to feel to me like this race is going to go to whoever has found the best aero tune for whatever conditions they throw at us. Anybody who shows up on race day relying on the default tunes is going to be at a severe disadvantage.

 

[Talon16]

I am curious to how GV is going to shake out.

For GT2, RH are mandatory but there is only a 1x on tires so it'll will likely be RS for all the laps but one...? But, there's also a 6x on fuel so that could come into play as well. Likely run on RS tires until you need fuel then put on RH for the rest.

GT1 is a tire x4 and fuel x2 so that one I think would just be keep running the RSs until you have to put on RH tires. If you can time it such that only one lap needed on RH that would be advantageous (like, about to run out of fuel on the penultimate lap, then pit for RH tires and a splash for only one lap).

Fuel saving will be a thing if you can get an extra lap or two out of the RS tires.

As usual, I'll let you guys have the fun figuring it out. I am not really interested in the Nations so already looking to the GV event.

 

[Met Entso]

I am curious to how GV is going to shake out.

For GT2, RH are mandatory but there is only a 1x on tires so it'll will likely be RS for all the laps but one...? But, there's also a 6x on fuel so that could come into play as well. Likely run on RS tires until you need fuel then put on RH for the rest.

GT1 is a tire x4 and fuel x2 so that one I think would just be keep running the RSs until you have to put on RH tires. If you can time it such that only one lap needed on RH that would be advantageous (like, about to run out of fuel on the penultimate lap, then pit for RH tires and a splash for only one lap).

Fuel saving will be a thing if you can get an extra lap or two out of the RS tires.

As usual, I'll let you guys have the fun figuring it out. I am not really interested in the Nations so already looking to the GV event.

Yes for GT2 it would be 9 laps with RS that's when fuel runs out and then 5 laps with RH. Doesnt seem worth pitting 2 times to use RS for 4 more laps.

 

[Roggers]

In the next manufacturer if RH is mandatory, this means no rain?

I am curious to how GV is going to shake out.

For GT2, RH are mandatory but there is only a 1x on tires so it'll will likely be RS for all the laps but one...? But, there's also a 6x on fuel so that could come into play as well. Likely run on RS tires until you need fuel then put on RH for the rest.

GT1 is a tire x4 and fuel x2 so that one I think would just be keep running the RSs until you have to put on RH tires. If you can time it such that only one lap needed on RH that would be advantageous (like, about to run out of fuel on the penultimate lap, then pit for RH tires and a splash for only one lap).

Fuel saving will be a thing if you can get an extra lap or two out of the RS tires.

As usual, I'll let you guys have the fun figuring it out. I am not really interested in the Nations so already looking to the GV event.

Yeah in GT2 my early tests were a 1 stop race. Run the softs for max fuel stint and the rest on hards. Think it’s about 3/4 laps again like Dragon Trail.
I do think a no stop is possible in a few cars maybe. But it’s the offset pace difference between soft and hard that I think will sway it to been a 1 stop

 

[guitargeek]

Yeah in GT2 my early tests were a 1 stop race. Run the softs for max fuel stint and the rest on hards. Think it’s about 3/4 laps again like Dragon Trail.
I do think a no stop is possible in a few cars maybe. But it’s the offset pace difference between soft and hard that I think will sway it to been a 1 stop

Agreed, GV seems to be basically identical strategy to the Dragon Trail race, softs as long as fuel lasts (9 laps for me), hards for the rest. Tried one practice race and confirmed, end of 9 laps near empty on fuel, same as last time.

 

[SPL170db]

Probably going to sit out GV, heading to a friend's halloween party...unless I'm running late and can't resist getting a race in

 

[Roggers]

I’ve given up on testing Nations race. I’ve been testing my finger and controller skills to see if I can get my setup done within the 30 seconds timer. Why you can’t save your setup in the extra settings sheets 😡!
Just another stupid thing that PD can add to the list of stupid things.

Back to cars. Ive tried a few options tonight, Hyundai, Porsche (group c), 787b, GR10 and the 919… and the GR10 has to be my pick. While the GR10 isn’t the greatest car to drive, it still feels better to me than the others. Just hope I’m competitive enough in it.

Did a little aero testing at Special X to see the effects. Only did cars I owned.
Rules were to take the max MPH on the downhill bit on the bridge and then take a reading at 9000 metres after the car had settled again on the straight. Speeds all in MPH as that what I use, and also I can’t be bothered to convert them either 🤣

Car	Aero	Max speed on downhill (mph)	Max speed at 9000m/9km (mph)
GR10	Default	211	207
	High	204	200
	Low	217	214
787b	Default	229	226
	High	217	213
	Low	243	242
Porsche (Gr.C)	Default	223	219
	High	210	206
	Low	243	243

 

[Moose78]

Feeling reasonably well-prepared for the race now. I've got aero tunes for the Hyundai N 2025 for dry, moderate rain (R04), and heavy rain (R07), with optimal lap times of 3:21.961, 3:31.441, and 3:52.352, respectively. There might a little bit more time to squeeze out those with some more fine tuning, but I'm mostly happy with where I'm sitting with those.

I even had time to go back to the R92C and start on a dry-weather aero tune for it. I thought it was fast with the default settings, but that thing is a rocket once you drop the down force. My optimal lap time with it so far is 3.21.631, with a top speed of 374 km/h. Set a new FP best lap of 3:22.324 (IIRC), too.

My plan had been to us the N 2025 for any mixed weather races, but seeing that top speed from the R92C, it is tempting to see how it performs in the rain. Think I'll try out a few weather scenarios to see if it ever makes sense to use it in a mixed weather race.

 

[SPL170db]

Mistah_MCA put this together, found it helpful from a tuning perspective. Now its just down to weather.....

 

[Fezzik]

 

[SupaflyIRL]

toto, its called rain, we're going car racing

 

[Yard_Sale]

Damn. Bummed I’m missing this weekend’s race, as well as next weekends GV race. Admittedly, I suck at both tracks…but group C cars are my jam.

What’s everyone’s opinion on the limited tuning they’ve allowed us in this FIA season as well as the daily’s?

Hopefully, it won’t get anymore involved then just sway bars and dampers. I think if they open it up any further than that (knowing that they’ve done exactly that for Nations this weekend), they run the risk of chasing people away. Not to mention, then car setup can really start swaying the odds drastically away from the casuals, and in the favor of people who are willing to spend hours testing. IMO, dampers and sway bars are the sweet spot. Offers just enough tuning where you can tailor the car to your liking, without it being overly-complicated

 

[SupaflyIRL]

What’s everyone’s opinion on the limited tuning they’ve allowed us in this FIA season as well as the daily’s?

I'm agreed that either no or very limited tuning is best for competitive balance. I'm already not thrilled with alien-style tricks like dragging the brake in hybrids, I'm not super interested in finding out what kind of weird glitch tunes that full open tuning will demand to keep competitive.

 

[Roggers]

Mistah_MCA put this together, found it helpful from a tuning perspective. Now its just down to weather.....

Hahaha basically did the same test as me but actually made it relevant and did it properly 🤣

Interesting to see from this video about how quick that Hyundai can go in the wet. 10 seconds a lap quicker... Convert that into average people pace, it what maybe 12-15 seconds?
I have to say I am enjoying this mystery surrounding what the weather will be doing that will potentially pick your car, but I’m not liking all these choices available and having to decide on a car. Plus add on all the time spent trying configuration on a long lap in multiple weather. Stressful!

Damn. Bummed I’m missing this weekend’s race, as well as next weekends GV race. Admittedly, I suck at both tracks…but group C cars are my jam.

What’s everyone’s opinion on the limited tuning they’ve allowed us in this FIA season as well as the daily’s?

Hopefully, it won’t get anymore involved then just sway bars and dampers. I think if they open it up any further than that (knowing that they’ve done exactly that for Nations this weekend), they run the risk of chasing people away. Not to mention, then car setup can really start swaying the odds drastically away from the casuals, and in the favor of people who are willing to spend hours testing. IMO, dampers and sway bars are the sweet spot. Offers just enough tuning where you can tailor the car to your liking, without it being overly-complicated

So for the daily races I think the setups have been fine and are balanced about right. Just allowing damper and suspension changes doesnt really affect the top speed or lap times, all it does is just help the driver tailor a car to you driving style. Last weeks Manufacturers at Nurburgring I think was spot on. Anti rolls, dampers and suspension.

This issue I’ve found this week for Le Mans is you 3 categories or cars that all work in 3 different ways. LMP1, Group C and the VGTs. Allowing people to adjust the aero I think has just opened up was too many complications on this race and a few small glitches really.

I test the aero effects on a Gr3 car and I think allowing aero changes would be a welcome addition to the daily races and the speed differences is only 6/7 MOHs difference. I’m the same test on the old Group C cars the speed difference is nearly 40mphs

Car	Aero	Max speed on downhill (mph)	Max speed at 9000m/9km (mph)
Audi R8 Gr3	Default	178	172
	High	175	170
	Low	183	177

If PD are allowing setups then I do think they need to be more cautious about what category of cars they use and what options they allow is to change

 

[LeGeNd-1]

What’s everyone’s opinion on the limited tuning they’ve allowed us in this FIA season as well as the daily’s?

Tuning allows you to tailor the car handling to your driving style and opens up more cars to be competitive. But it also increases the time commitment needed for a race and increases the gap between those who have lots of free time to test and those who have busy lives and just want to jump in and race. In the end, at the sharp end of the grid I find it doesn't really change anything. Every one is equally well prepared and you just finish according to skill level. The only difference is everyone has wasted more time preparing for the race trying to find a "perfect" tune.

If PD wants to open up tuning they need to increase the stakes of the competition to match the increased time commitment from the players. This will allow people to bring their own crew chief, have their own sponsors, and win actual prize money. Basically make it closer to the professional PC sim esports scene. Now some people might see this as good, but I think the reason why GT esports is one of the most popular ones is because of how accessible it is and the low barrier to entry. Everyone's in it because they just love racing, not because of money or sponsor requirements or other superficial reasons. You don't need to have a full team of engineers building setups and exploiting every physics loophole just to be competitive. This might sound selfish but I'd personally keep it locked setup for the official seasons. For exhibition, 1-2 tuning races for fun and variety would be fine since it doesn't count towards anything.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

While I think the tuning is fun it's detrimental to accessibility. The #1 force of GT in my opinion is it's accessibility and using tuning raises that bar.
And to be fair a proper different ed setup from the start would make it less necessary