GT lost it’s Audio lead

[Nathan88]

You mean the same Kaz who said the sounds in GT6 were too accurate? The same Kaz who was happy with standards being in GT5 and 6? The same guy who has been happy to ship terrible AI and catch the rabbit events for years? Yeah...

Uncharted 3 now looks & feels like a clunky mess compared to Uncharted 4. That’s what a decade of development & new technology can do.

The GT franchise dates back over two decades with a huge amount of legacy assets. For a period it was considered preferable to have quantity over quality. From GTS onwards PD changed their entire philosophy. To the point where we now have stunning car models and (almost) class leading audio.

The next obvious focus of attention is AI. Whatever anyone thinks about Sophy AI. It’s potentially a game changer not only for the GT franchise. But the way in which AI is implemented in Sony 1st Party titles. Given the tech sharing culture Sony Studio now have.

 

[Scaff]

The GT franchise dates back over two decades with a huge amount of legacy assets. For a period it was considered preferable to have quantity over quality. From GTS onwards PD changed their entire philosophy. To the point where we now have stunning car models and (almost) class leading audio.

GT as a franchise actually had both for pretty much it's first four main titles, changing with GT5 and GT6 at which point major quality issues became the norm within the series, something that GTS and GT7 has partially (but not fully) addressed.

As far as audio goes, GT is now acceptable, it's certainly not '(almost) class leading'.

The next obvious focus of attention is AI. Whatever anyone thinks about Sophy AI. It’s potentially a game changer not only for the GT franchise. But the way in which AI is implemented in Sony 1st Party titles. Given the tech sharing culture Sony Studio now have.

First things, first, machine learning AI in racing titles isn't new, PD/Sony are not the first to do this. Why mention that? Simply because Sophy is still suffering from the issue that is core to all past attempts at it, which is despite it making for quick AI, it doesn't make for good AI. What it has (so far) failed to provide is good, scalable AI that knows racecraft, and despite the claims PD/Sony have made in that regard, the actual evidence for it is worryingly thin on the ground, and without that it really doesn't matter how much quicker than Lewis Hamilton it is.

You say this would be great for tech-sharing in other titles, but as it stands right now it would be like giving an uncharted title AI that finds perfect cover from your fire, while having a 99.9% hit rate when targeting you. AI honed by deep machine learning is too perfect, too accurate in 99.9% of situations to be realistic, human, and most importantly enjoyable to compete against. It's still got a long, long way to go, as solving those issues isn't as simple as just dialling the AI down.

 

[Nathan88]

GT as a franchise actually had both for pretty much it's first four main titles, changing with GT5 and GT6 at which point major quality issues became the norm within the series, something that GTS and GT7 has partially (but not fully) addressed.

In the pre-HD era cars, tracks & environments where, at best, an approximation of the real thing. That goes for modelling, sound, physics. Most Japanese devs suffered during this transition period. Same with Western devs and large scale open world titles. Bug filled & glitchy was the norm.

As far as audio goes, GT is now acceptable, it's certainly not '(almost) class leading'.

I’m picky about audio. For road & tuned cars I do think GT7 is class leading. Race cars can be hit & miss and sometimes lack the harshness of the real thing. The sound of some cars in PC sims can send a chill down your spine. But the immersion is often broken with unrefined & clippy samples.

First things, first, machine learning AI in racing titles isn't new, PD/Sony are not the first to do this. Why mention that? Simply because Sophy is still suffering from the issue that is core to all past attempts at it, which is despite it making for quick AI, it doesn't make for good AI. What it has (so far) failed to provide is good, scalable AI that knows racecraft, and despite the claims PD/Sony have made in that regard, the actual evidence for it is worryingly thin on the ground, and without that it really doesn't matter how much quicker than Lewis Hamilton it is.

You say this would be great for tech-sharing in other titles, but as it stands right now it would be like giving an uncharted title AI that finds perfect cover from your fire, while having a 99.9% hit rate when targeting you. AI honed by deep machine learning is too perfect, too accurate in 99.9% of situations to be realistic, human, and most importantly enjoyable to compete against. It's still got a long, long way to go, as solving those issues isn't as simple as just dialling the AI down.

What Sophy AI has in it’s favour is the resources of Sony and an intended implementation that goes far beyond gaming. Everyone is familiar with AI that cheats the laws of physics (or the game) to beat the driver/gamer.

The Sophy AI team are well aware racecraft & scalability is the ultimate goal. They’d already achieved the goal of matching the pace of top drivers a year ago.

 

[Scaff]

In the pre-HD era cars, tracks & environments where, at best, an approximation of the real thing. That goes for modelling, sound, physics. Most Japanese devs suffered during this transition period. Same with Western devs and large scale open world titles. Bug filled & glitchy was the norm.

For the norm of the time, the first four GT titles set benchmarks that other titles struggled to match, particularly on console, arguably holding their own in that regard until RBR and EPR were released.

As far as 5 & 6 go, PD has a lot fewer excuses than most other devs, they had access to the PS3 before just about anyone, and many of the issues with those two titles were a result of choices they made and can't just be handwaved off with a vague 'transition' excuse.

I’m picky about audio. For road & tuned cars I do think GT7 is class leading. Race cars can be hit & miss and sometimes lack the harshness of the real thing. The sound of some cars in PC sims can send a chill down your spine. But the immersion is often broken with unrefined & clippy samples.

So am I, very, very, very picky.

GT7 is good, (as was GTS) but still a way behind the best around.

What Sophy AI has in it’s favour is the resources of Sony and an intended implementation that goes far beyond gaming. Everyone is familiar with AI that cheats the laws of physics (or the game) to beat the driver/gamer.

The Sophy AI team are well aware racecraft & scalability is the ultimate goal. They’d already achieved the goal of matching the pace of top drivers a year ago.

All you've done is reitterate what I've said with different wording and an 'all will be well' spin, without actually demonstrating how that will happen!

 

[Ande3200]

2 years later and gt7 are still getting as good quality sounds as before, so i am not even worried for the future.

 

[tankuroded]

Mike Caviezel has returned to Turn 10: