GT Prologue & GT5 - Graphics

[serversurfer]

First off, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that it's highly unlikely that they're simply going to recycle assets from GT4. When they say "models from GT4," they mean "Honda Civic Type-R '03" or whatever. They're not saying they took the last-gen Maya objects and plopped them in to the new game. That would be horrible.

Second, I'm going to agree with those who are saying that the Maya objects in GT5 are going to be the same ones we saw in GT5P, with a possible tweak here and there. What we saw in Prologue is the new art. They're not gonna rebuild those cars from scratch. There's no need.

I also agree that we're likely to see improvements to both the environments and the game engine itself. More/better smoke, more track details, better lighting, more AA, possibly full 1920x1080 rendering, etc.

170 Premium new models (full interior modeling, the interior corresponds to vehicle damage)
830 kinds of standard model (some are from Gran Turismo 4 that have been carried over to GT5) [Read: Cars we have seen in GT4 before ]

To me, what this is saying is 170 models will have cockpit views that correspond to the real-life cockpits, and that cockpit view will also reflect damage taken by the car. The other 830 models may have generic cockpits, or less likely, no cockpits at all. So the cockpit view in the Enzo will show an honest-to-goodness Enzo dashboard (and seats and stuff, since you can look around while you're in the car), but the Cappuccino will probably just have "a dashboard"—the same "dashboard" that's in the Volvo Wagon and the '86 Civic—and if you look around, you'll just see a generic interior, or maybe just blackness.

Does anyone know if GT-PSP is using generic cockpits? If so, it seems likely that the 830 non-premium cars in GT5 will get them too.

 

[Robin]

\I've said it before and I'll say it again that it would be silly to have some cars look better than others in the same game.

It would also be silly to have visual damage on some cars and not others but this hasnt stopped PD for doing just that!

Every single next gen game has damage on all cars and some games even had decient looking damage 10 years ago! I find it unbelievable that PD either cannot get the licensing to have damage on all cars or can't be bothered doing damage on all cars.

As for the car models, GT5P had all brand new car models (even if those cars had appeared in GT4). I think to the untrained public eye a GT4 car in HD will look too similar to GT5 models to call, especially if PD is going to tweak them. Seeing as we havent even seen one of these carried over car models its too early to say how different they will look.

 

[Custer85]

To me, what this is saying is 170 models will have cockpit views that correspond to the real-life cockpits, and that cockpit view will also reflect damage taken by the car. The other 830 models may have generic cockpits, or less likely, no cockpits at all. So the cockpit view in the Enzo will show an honest-to-goodness Enzo dashboard (and seats and stuff, since you can look around while you're in the car), but the Cappuccino will probably just have "a dashboard"—the same "dashboard" that's in the Volvo Wagon and the '86 Civic—and if you look around, you'll just see a generic interior, or maybe just blackness.

Does anyone know if GT-PSP is using generic cockpits? If so, it seems likely that the 830 non-premium cars in GT5 will get them too.

The Cappuccino allready has a completely modelled cockpit from GT5P, i dont think they will not use it, just because its no "premium" car in the true sense of the meaning.

I guess the 170 Cars are new cars, that are exclusive to GT5 (premium in some way) and the other 830 cars are allready known from previous GT games. Iam sure all cars will have the dashboard and the interior modelled as good as in GT5p.

GTPSP may only feature a black dashboard and a completely black interior, but i dont think they will do that in GT5, since it would look bad on a big FullHD screen.
I think the translation of the japanese website was misunderstood or something. Its GT we are talking about, not some generic racegame. If GT5 would only have 170 cars with damage and interior and 830 without any of these features the game would be bashed by the reviewers and by the fans and PD would loose its reputation. Kaz has allways been a perfectionist and i think its a pain for him to only feature damage to a limited number of cars, but releasing a game with only 170 cockpits would be unthinkable.

 

[Antti-san]

So the cockpit view in the Enzo will show an honest-to-goodness Enzo dashboard (and seats and stuff, since you can look around while you're in the car), but the Cappuccino will probably just have "a dashboard"—the same "dashboard" that's in the Volvo Wagon and the '86 Civic—and if you look around, you'll just see a generic interior, or maybe just blackness.

But we already have the Suzuki Cappuccino in Prologue, honest-to-god cockpit and all.

I think to the untrained public eye a GT4 car in HD will look too similar to GT5 models to call, especially if PD is going to tweak them.

I think that they need to do more than just tweak a five-year old model from PS2 if they want it to look any good in HD, especially next to new models built from scratch.

All in all, I really hope PD haven't taken the easy way out, and just simply ported 800 cars over from GT4 with no cockpit view. 👎

EDIT: Damn, Custer85 beat me to it!

 

[serversurfer]

The Cappuccino was just an example.

 

[Antti-san]

Don't worry, I understood what you meant!

 

[Robin]

I think that they need to do more than just tweak a five-year old model from PS2 if they want it to look any good in HD, especially next to new models built from scratch.

All in all, I really hope PD haven't taken the easy way out, and just simply ported 800 cars over from GT4 with no cockpit view. 👎

I would say tweaking means things like adding high quality 3D wheels and tires, adding the new lighting reflections and shadows, adding interiors etc.. I think that such changes would make it hard to tell the difference, but at GTP we will notice! .

If PD was not going to add interiors to all cars it would be unforgivable but I doubt that will happen. Could you imagine a game where half the cars have no damage and half the cars have no interiors! Thats what cowboy devs do!

As for the Cappuccino the model we saw in GT5P along with the TVR Speed Six, Nissan Skyline etc WERE ALL GT5 SPEC models even though they had previously been in GT4. Just because a car has been in GT4 doesnt mean its automatically not eligible for a total rebuild.

PD will choose to 'freshen up' some models and totally rebuild others even if they were in GT4. Cars which are more interesting or have a unique place in history are likely to be totally redone. More generic cars will be tweaked and ported.

Im just hoping that the game doesnt turn out to be 80% GT4 just in HD. I would say at least 50% new cars would be a decient figure on top of all the other new features GT5 offers.

Robin.

 

[chepe371]

Cockpits for all is my bet, we already have 70 or so of them totally faithful, so why would we have to see 800 odd cars with generic dashboards? I don't think PD do that to us, hell they wouldnt do it to themselves!

 

[Antti-san]

As for the Cappuccino the model we saw in GT5P along with the TVR Speed Six, Nissan Skyline etc WERE ALL GT5 SPEC models even though they had previously been in GT4. Just because a car has been in GT4 doesnt mean its automatically not eligible for a total rebuild.

PD will choose to 'freshen up' some models and totally rebuild others even if they were in GT4. Cars which are more interesting or have a unique place in history are likely to be totally redone. More generic cars will be tweaked and ported.

I know that Prologue has many cars that were also in GT4, but I just have a hard time believing that PD would simply tweak and port over cars from GT4. It just doesn't strike me as something that KY would want.

 

[Dave A]

Just because 1000 cars don't mean graphics will be tonned down. But sure for some cars they will be. There will be all cars from GT5P plus additional ones with super textures and models.. Rest will be updated GT4 cars with HD graphics.. So some cars will look bit diffrent and less detail over premium ones, but I bet there will be bit more smoke, or something else that will make GT5 look prettier over GT5P . Allready the TOKYO map with full 3D buildings looks damn gorgeous!

The premium cars have nothing to do with the quality of the models, the premium cars are likely to be the cars that display visual damage. There is no indication that some cars will be modelled to a different standard to others and there's not much chance any of the car models in GT5 will be recycled GT4 models. They arn't in GT5, they are all scratch built. To explain, GT4's car models were modelled as a single shell, the doors, wings, bonnet, roof, they were all part of the same wireframe model. In GT5 the cars are modelled the same as Kaz has already said they will be in GT5. Instead of the car being mostly one single mesh, each component is now a seperate mesh, so the front bumper is not part of the same mesh as the front wings which in turn are different to the bonnet etc. This method allows for the cars bodywork to be customisable. As Kas explained, it allows you to take off the standard front bumper and replace it with another in the game. If the whole car was a single mesh then you could replace a part of that mesh, you'd have to replace the whole mesh. GT5's cars allow you to do this without changing the entire car model. The onl things GT4 modelled seperate to the rest of the car was the rear wings and in the cases of cars with movable aeror, thoes parts were modelled seperately too.

Yeah we will have to wait and see, but to me it sounds like they will recycle GT4 cars.

https://www.gtplanet.net/page/5/

How? There's more cars mentioned there than GT4 had, so that means that new cars must be recycled as well. Which would be odd. If it means anything concerning old Gran Turismo cars, then I'd think it's more likely to be referring to cars we've seen in GT games before and not the actual car models used in GT4.

 

[Antti-san]

The premium cars have nothing to do with the quality of the models, the premium cars are likely to be the cars that display visual damage.

Yes, this is my take on it as well. 👍

Oh, and good post Dave A!

 

[Tenacious D]

+1 more to Dave's post. Kaz said in a few interviews that the cars in GT5 were going to have 200,000 polygons or more, and at no time did he say that some car models would have 200K polys and others just 20,000. I'm really baffled as to why this and the 20 track rumor still keeps getting recycled so anxiously, especially when we only have five days to wait for official word from The Man himself.

 

[serversurfer]

The premium cars have nothing to do with the quality of the models, the premium cars are likely to be the cars that display visual damage.

The leaked and translated feature list would seem to indicate that the premium cars are the ones that offer "full interior modeling," and says that interior model will reflect damage taken by the car. The feature list is silent on whether or not damage is modeled on the other cars, but it certainly doesn't say that it won't. It just implies that they won't have "full interior modeling," whatever that means.

Edit: Plus, KY told IGN he's still "deciding" which cars will display damage. I don't know exactly what there is to think about, but it seems pretty clear that the number of cars to display damage hasn't been fixed at 170 just yet.

 

[gt3_racer05]

Hi, I'm new here so please forgive me if this is a common thread. I don't have time to search as I'm posting on the sly at work

I was just wondering if we can expect the graphics on GT5 to be better than GTP or not. I'd assume so but has there been any confirmation we'll see higher polygon counts in GT5 compared to GTP?

I say this because I'm yet to see actual gameplay footage of GT5, the trailers I've seen look great but past experience has taught me to not go by what trailers show too much.

Of course graphics aren't everything but I can't help but get annoyed at times by the flickering of pixels (that classic playstation thing) that can happen on GTP replays. I'd also hope we don't get the jaggy shadows quite a few ps3 games have.

Whats your take on it? Have PD spoken about the games in comparison in such a way?

Dan

Look in the news section of this site, and you'll find videos of GT5 gameplay

 

[rivermandrake]

Wow loads of replies! Sorry I haven't been able to contribute, I'm still trying to sort out my internet since moving recently.

I've really enjoyed reading through the thread, it's interesting to hear what other people's expectations are.

I think the GT4 models will be enhanced for GT5, no doubts that about. I'm sure it will look better than GTP, I'm in agreement with one of the replies here in that it would be nice to see the actual track surface looking a bit better.

All this model talk gave me an idea. It would be fun if they included a couple of cars with modelling from the very early games. It would be a laugh to see them against the lush backgrounds and tracks of GT5!

Of course, it isn't all about graphics it would be nothing without the gameplay and feel. However, the reason graphics are a a large part of GT is because we all want an as realistic experiance as possible so that automatically means, groundbreaking photorealism is needed more and more.

I can't wait for the damn thing to come out, I'm losing my mind living on the drip drip of info we get. I hope the Tokyo show brings us a release date!

Dan

 

[myke6699]

I'd have to say that if they manage to turn v-sync on for GT 5 then GT 5 is automatically considerably looking.

While it probably will, you also need to know the reason why most of the time, developer would choose to leave it off. If you're able to keep the framerate quite steady (and in the case of GT5, at 60 fps), then there's every reason to turn v-sync on. But in the case of most highly demanding game for this generation of console, that's easier said than done. Since GT5 will not only run at 60fps but most probably at the promised 1080p as well (or at least close to it, more so than most HD console game recently), keeping it constantly at 60 fps is right next to impossible.

By not syncing the frame to the 60hz (normally on most screen), any unduly drop in framerate isn't as apparent. If the screen were to sync, instead of seeing the intermittent tears, what you end up getting is a noticeable framerate drop even if it's just for a slight tenth of a second, the change from 60 fps to 30 fps is very apparent and quite annoying especially in a driving game.