GT Sport beta physics discussion - Read the First Post Before Replying

[PzR Slim]

Ten minutes of me rambling on about 1.06 update.

That was a good watch and listen. Very similar views to my own. Haven't got into the position of just spinning on the grass. Appalling if the rotation point is as that suggests. I'm wondering if there was something funky about that one area of the track or did you experience it at other points?

I think I could become decent at this game but I would have to learn how to play the game. The other racing games I play I largely drive how I would in the real world and that tends to work out ok. Every game has a few quirks but GTS, in it's current state, is so far removed from reality in many areas when it comes to the physics that it's counter intuitive. I could teach myself to play it well but that could well adversely affect my racing in the other games I play and I'm not sure I'm prepared to do that.

 

[Animera]

It took me a while to unlearn my GT bad habits, so on the odd occasion when I do play GT6 I drive like I'm playing PC sims, rather than get into those bad habits again.

 

[Haitauer]

Remember the time we tried if cars would turn upside down in GT5? I think those times are over. Oops..
Love the echoing sound of floored gas pedal.

 

[ock1]

FFB now.
First with G29 we can feel and hear this dramatic horrible CLUNCH, when you give to much wheel angle and when your are above the front grip limit or also when the vertical force variation is excessive. I think PD can correct this specific FFB level easily.

I just tried 1.06 after not playing for a few weeks, after winning all the prize cars but always finishing back of pack. On a gear driven logitech momo force emulating a g29 through Gimx, that clunking at the onset of sliding feels like the force feedback rattling effect for driving over curbs. What's that supposed to be, tire chatter?! It was still bothering me with force feedback strength set to minimum.

 

[Haitauer]

I just tried 1.06 after not playing for a few weeks, after winning all the prize cars but always finishing back of pack. On a gear driven logitech momo force emulating a g29 through Gimx, that clunking at the onset of sliding feels like the force feedback rattling effect for driving over curbs. What's that supposed to be, tire chatter?! It was still bothering me with force feedback strength set to minimum.

Its terrible.. I could probably make milkshake with my G29 at Big Willows second corner...

 

[praiano63]

I just tried 1.06 after not playing for a few weeks, after winning all the prize cars but always finishing back of pack. On a gear driven logitech momo force emulating aer this just g29 through Gimx, that clunking at the onset of sliding feels like the force feedback rattling effect for driving over curbs. What's that supposed to be, tire chatter?! It was still bothering me with force feedback strength set to minimum.

I did around 20 laps on the nordschleife today with the 4C and mercedes gr4 and after this just a few laps with the evora on willow.
Strangely i ve almost never experienced the clunch anymore. Last night during my test i have overdrived my cars to provoque it and then of course it was very present.
It s perhaps due to my driving style , i dont do late braking and im concentrated on my driving line trying not to disturb my weight transfer. A simple little drift now is slowering a lot your car.
Sure it must be corrected but it s not so annoying as i thought first.
The FFB is very poor overall actually. In my opinion the 1.06 physics are very good and full of recourse , it just need an as good FFB to feel it and use it to have more driving inputs options. I mean a more active dominant way to drive. ......... so hard to write what i want to say.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I did around 20 laps on the nordschleife today with the 4C and mercedes gr4 and after this just a few laps with the evora on willow.
Strangely i ve almost never experienced the clunch anymore. Last night during my test i have overdrived my cars to provoque it and then of course it was very present.
It s perhaps due to my driving style , i dont do late braking and im concentrated on my driving line trying not to disturb my weight transfer. A simple little drift now is slowering a lot your car.
Sure it must be corrected but it s not so annoying as i thought first.
The FFB is very poor overall actually. In my opinion the 1.06 physics are very good and full of recourse , it just need an as good FFB to feel it and use it to have more driving inputs options. I mean a more active dominant way to drive. ......... so hard to write what i want to say.

You want to have a better connection to the car on the track through the wheel so that you can drive more intuitively, or, in other words, drive more by feeling what the car is doing and responding accordingly?

 

[praiano63]

You want to have a better connection to the car on the track through the wheel so that you can drive more intuitively, or, in other words, drive more by feeling what the car is doing and responding accordingly?

Exactly this, my semantic only work with french and portuguese. Thanks my friend.

 

[Haitauer]

I did around 20 laps on the nordschleife today with the 4C and mercedes gr4 and after this just a few laps with the evora on willow.
Strangely i ve almost never experienced the clunch anymore. Last night during my test i have overdrived my cars to provoque it and then of course it was very present.
It s perhaps due to my driving style , i dont do late braking and im concentrated on my driving line trying not to disturb my weight transfer. A simple little drift now is slowering a lot your car.
Sure it must be corrected but it s not so annoying as i thought first.
The FFB is very poor overall actually. In my opinion the 1.06 physics are very good and full of recourse , it just need an as good FFB to feel it and use it to have more driving inputs options. I mean a more active dominant way to drive. ......... so hard to write what i want to say.

You want to have a better connection to the car on the track through the wheel so that you can drive more intuitively, or, in other words, drive more by feeling what the car is doing and responding accordingly?

What i find my self doing with good ffb or some balanced real life cars, is I let the car/wheel make the correction to a point and follow and add to that if needed. Its the classic case of holding a bird - light enough to let the natural movement happen but firm enough to not let it out of control. Its a lot more faster and intuitive to react this way.

I assume this is why one can see many professional race drivers moving the wheel all the time. Its actually the wheel moving their hands.

But still ffb was a lot better in 1.05..

 

[Suzumiya]

No steering ratio adjustments after 5+ years... sometimes I turn and I feel no input on my T300RS. It's like driving a truck, it's horrendous...

 

[Suzumiya]

Going to add on.

When braking in the N300 cars, the braking distance is absolutely atrocious. I feel as if there's something baked on to worsen the braking abilities of the cars. Not only do I have to stop from a 300m board to make a slight turn, the brakes lock up as well so that you can barely even stop. It's so apparent that it was just added on to make it "more realistic", but it isn't in fact. Some of these cars have really good braking capabilities irl and in GTS, they feel like drum brakes with butter on them. It's ridiculous. And when getting to the Gr.4 and Gr.3 cars, the braking is still the same from other past games, stopping on a dime and in a nanosecond.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Going to add on.

When braking in the N300 cars, the braking distance is absolutely atrocious. I feel as if there's something baked on to worsen the braking abilities of the cars. Not only do I have to stop from a 300m board to make a slight turn, the brakes lock up as well so that you can barely even stop. It's so apparent that it was just added on to make it "more realistic", but it isn't in fact. Some of these cars have really good braking capabilities irl and in GTS, they feel like drum brakes with butter on them. It's ridiculous. And when getting to the Gr.4 and Gr.3 cars, the braking is still the same from other past games, stopping on a dime and in a nanosecond.

Clearly they saw @Scaff 's post about brake fade in Project Cars and quickly threw some code together for GT Sport Beta.

 

[m8h3r]

I actually actively avoid the N300 races due to the braking. I was excited at the idea of putting the Megane around the 'ring but its just tiresome.

 

[Todo Em Lixo]

Going to add on.

When braking in the N300 cars, the braking distance is absolutely atrocious. I feel as if there's something baked on to worsen the braking abilities of the cars. Not only do I have to stop from a 300m board to make a slight turn, the brakes lock up as well so that you can barely even stop. It's so apparent that it was just added on to make it "more realistic", but it isn't in fact. Some of these cars have really good braking capabilities irl and in GTS, they feel like drum brakes with butter on them. It's ridiculous. And when getting to the Gr.4 and Gr.3 cars, the braking is still the same from other past games, stopping on a dime and in a nanosecond.

How the braking compare to real life distance of braking? There can be some test example 100-0 distance compared to the real car?

 

[praiano63]

How the braking compare to real life distance of braking? There can be some test example 100-0 distance compared to the real car?

Audi TTS need 151 feets to stop at 70 mph or 46 m at 112 kmh .
Just need to find a place at brands hatch of nordschleife with a visible mark measured on google earth for example. Possible to do and enough accurate test.

EDIT: Perhaps the real life tires are less grippy than the ones used in GT.... i don t have any idea of this parameter.

 

[turnupdaheat]

Going to add on.

When braking in the N300 cars, the braking distance is absolutely atrocious. I feel as if there's something baked on to worsen the braking abilities of the cars. Not only do I have to stop from a 300m board to make a slight turn, the brakes lock up as well so that you can barely even stop. It's so apparent that it was just added on to make it "more realistic", but it isn't in fact. Some of these cars have really good braking capabilities irl and in GTS, they feel like drum brakes with butter on them. It's ridiculous. And when getting to the Gr.4 and Gr.3 cars, the braking is still the same from other past games, stopping on a dime and in a nanosecond.

You are either highly exaggerating or you have a problem with your controller/brake pedal. Taking Dragon Trail as an example, there are three particularly heavy braking points into tight turns (T1 for example) where in the N300 cars you approach at approx 130 mph and I use the 150m board for 2 of those and for the final turn I brake at around the 120m mark. So if you are braking for slight turns at 300m it's not the game that is the problem.

Also Gr.4 and Gr.3 cars are racing cars on racing tyres so naturally they will brake far more effectively.

 

[KING OF SKULLS]

Going to add on.

When braking in the N300 cars, the braking distance is absolutely atrocious. I feel as if there's something baked on to worsen the braking abilities of the cars. Not only do I have to stop from a 300m board to make a slight turn, the brakes lock up as well so that you can barely even stop. It's so apparent that it was just added on to make it "more realistic", but it isn't in fact. Some of these cars have really good braking capabilities irl and in GTS, they feel like drum brakes with butter on them. It's ridiculous. And when getting to the Gr.4 and Gr.3 cars, the braking is still the same from other past games, stopping on a dime and in a nanosecond.

Have you tried to change your ABS settings. The more ABS you have, the longer is your braking distance. This is also in RL a fact. Another factor for bad braking are suspension settings to stiff or the ride height is too low. Depends. But a good amount of suspension travel is necessary, even in GTS.

You are either highly exaggerating or you have a problem with your controller/brake pedal. Taking Dragon Trail as an example, there are three particularly heavy braking points into tight turns (T1 for example) where in the N300 cars you approach at approx 130 mph and I use the 150m board for 2 of those and for the final turn I brake at around the 120m mark. So if you are braking for slight turns at 300m it's not the game that is the problem.

Also Gr.4 and Gr.3 cars are racing cars on racing tyres so naturally they will brake far more effectively.

Those numbers are realistic. I researched a little and RL cars in the N300 category have breaking distances of around 140-150 m from 200km/h(124mp/h).

 

[Suzumiya]

Of course it is a problem with my controller or pedal, isn't it

Try out the Megane RS. Brakes are a "bit" off on this car, abs is off, pedals are registering and all. I take the first left hand sharp turn at Dragon Trail at the 200m board and I still miss.

 

[turnupdaheat]

Of course it is a problem with my controller or pedal, isn't it

Try out the Megane RS. Brakes are a "bit" off on this car, abs is off, pedals are registering and all. I take the first left hand sharp turn at Dragon Trail at the 200m board and I still miss.

Following your suggestion I did try out the Megane RS with ABS off and if anything I was surprised how effective the brakes were without the aid. I normally drive with ABS on mild because my personal experience with GT5 and 6 without ABS was very frustrating as I found the wheels would lock up far too easily under any kind of heavy braking.

Anyway, I don't have access to Dragon Trail at the moment so I recorded this quick video of the approach to the tricky series of bend towards the end of the Nurb. It is a good place to test brake performance as, unlike the approach to turn 1 at Dragon Trail it is not a simple exercise of braking in a straight line and a fair degree of modulation is required.



I appreciate this is not very scientific as there are no distance markers for reference but it is well within the 300m you said you needed to start braking for a slight turn.

It is difficult to identify why you are having such trouble but sounds to me that you are locking up and you are not recovering from that. Perhaps you could record a video of your braking experience it would help me/us to see what is going wrong.

 

[Todo Em Lixo]

Of course it is a problem with my controller or pedal, isn't it

Try out the Megane RS. Brakes are a "bit" off on this car, abs is off, pedals are registering and all. I take the first left hand sharp turn at Dragon Trail at the 200m board and I still miss.

Yeah maybe you can make one video so that identify can be made for the problem you have?

 

[turnupdaheat]

Try out the Megane RS. Brakes are a "bit" off on this car, abs is off, pedals are registering and all. I take the first left hand sharp turn at Dragon Trail at the 200m board and I still miss.

At the risk of sounding pedantic, I got a chance to try out the Megane at Dragon Trail today. The car was stock and I could brake well within the 200m mark with no abs and no drama making it around turn 1.

 

[Haitauer]

Yesterdays qualifying reminded what we've been talking about here earlier. Off track/grass physics and putting that rear tire on grass when braking..

 

[nrosko]

Are there any details of the GTsport physics & tyre model?

 

[marcvic]

Recent build of GT Sport. The physics look very different from the beta. Spotted lots of lift-oversteer during the lap:

 

[Seriousxsach]

Great thread, im trying to drift with a T150, using the street version M4 and the GRMN Toyota 86. On GT5 and 6 I’ve been very good at drifting with a controller. Unfortunately I can’t seem to get back to that level using my wheel. I have the wheel in 1080 mode but i only see rotation until approx 200 degrees? I have changed sense and FFB settings but nothing seems to work. Does anyone have any advice in terms of wheel set up, cars i should be using, or things i should practice. A little more info the biggest problem im having is the movements seem very aggressive, so when I enter a turn and iniate the drift, the car whips sideways in a not so smooth manner and becomes almost impossible to recover/manage during the drift. I have tried various different methods of balancing throttle and counter steer, even at full steering lock i can’t get the car to correct. Any help would be greatly appreciated