GT4 WRS Week 174 : Official Results

[Marooned]

I picked up the replays from Zikwik, Denur and Marooned. All at 432hp and with the correct compound.

Zikwik: fantastic smooth driving, always high-revving like the M3 needs, not a single apex missed ... green & clean 👍 & a well deserved win.

Denur: you probably uploaded the wrong replay, because in this one you make an error after T1, come to a halt and stand still ... at 10" I stopped waiting for something to happen maybe give it another go?

Marooned: you uploaded a replay tho it wasn't requested (silver) which is good. However, I think I found a wall touch at around second 32 (lefthander after T1 and before the very tight righthander) that could also be interpreted as a serious kerb movement. I'm no star in the analysis screen but you might want to check it yourself? I include a picture of that moment.

Thnx Steven for that, i'm not sure off what you're saying but i'll check the replay as soon as i'm back home, i did watched the replay several times before submitting and i'm sure i didn't hit the wall (but you said it's invisible!!!) so i've to check more, i'm sure i was up the curbs and not on the wall .

Thanks mate for your time checking my replay, & i hope to find it clean

 

[Denur]

If we get three DQ's this week I will be very disappointed to say the least.

My silly question: what is a DQ? There are so few left in these series, I would be very disappointed if anyone did post unfair laps. (I think that is what you are referring to). I have been warned that the WRS are dying-out, fine, but not because of cheating, boredom would be more acceptable. I hope neither, because I just got in, and I love it.

 

[EDK]

My silly question: what is a DQ? There are so few left in these series, I would be very disappointed if anyone did post unfair laps. (I think that is what you are referring to). I have been warned that the WRS are dying-out, fine, but not because of cheating, boredom would be more acceptable. I hope neither, because I just got in, and I love it.

Yes, the WRS is less popular right now that it has been at times in the past. Mainly due to the fact that we are using a 3+ year old version of Gran Turismo, while the preview of the replacement has become available. But many of us have remained loyal to the series, because of what it has done for our driving, what it stands for, and because we enjoy racing with one another each week in this type of format.

A DQ is a disquaification of the racer's lap time, because the lap has been found to be dirty OR doubtful. I think in the case of these replays, we are dealing with the latter, but we have some strong evidence. I only reviewed one of the replays, and I do not believe Raz_10 intentionally tried to pass off a dirty lap. I just think he did not fully understand what happened in the incident in question, where we believe he struck an invisible wall, which is against the rules as stated in every race thread.

I don't want to put words in Sphinx's mouth, but I think he is saying that the integrity of this series depends on the participants submitting clean laps, first and foremost, and that having 50% of the podiums and 23% of the participants DQ'd on a given week does not uphold that standard. So review your replays carefully, don't turn in a lap that you are not sure of and we won't have these issues.

 

[Denur]

...and that having 50% of the podiums and 23% of the participants DQ'd on a given week does not uphold that standard.

I guess not, but what does uphold the standard (in my humble opinion) is that those who f--ked-up after all, did so report themselves beforehand. When a verifier had reported a doubtfull lap and because of that the discussion would have started. Yes, I would have been disappointed as well. But rereading the posts so far here, I'm still inclined to trust our fellow competitors. Actually, it makes me sick that I have to use the word "trust". It is still a game within a game and I have no doubt that anyone doing the WRS is participating for the fun of it. No more, no less.

edit> last remark removed (not relevant)

 

[arora]

By the way, alcohol does play a role in most people's perception. It does in mine anyway currently.

In picking women maybe, but not in knowing weither a run is clean or not

I've not seen the replays in question but I'll stand by what I've always said, check the data logger, it's your friend.

 

[Sphinx]

I guess not, but what does uphold the standard (in my humble opinion) is that those who f--ked-up after all, did so report themselves beforehand.

No, what upholds the standard is submitting a lap time that has been checked and double checked before submission. Not checking until after the submission and then holding your hands up for the error made is not good enough here.

I have been warned that the WRS are dying-out, fine, but not because of cheating, boredom would be more acceptable. I hope neither, because I just got in, and I love it.

I have no idea who told you that but whoever they were are completely wrong. Click here: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=105367 and view the 526 members waiting for the WRS transition to GT5

 

[01GTP]

I'm going to double check my own replay and I will have reply later on today.
I know it is not needed as its not a gold but fair is fair. I'll also post my replay for any one interested in seeing it.

Post it up and I'll have a look. I'll post mine tonight or tomorrow as well. 👍 Not the prettiest lap I've ever run, have a couple spots of correcting oversteer where it looks pretty funny, but it's clean.

Here is my replay.

 

[Denur]

No, what upholds the standard is submitting a lap time that has been checked and double checked before submission. Not checking until after the submission and then holding your hands up for the error made is not good enough here.

👍

I have no idea who told you that but whoever they were are completely wrong. Click here: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=105367 and view the 526 members waiting for the WRS transition to GT5

I meant the GT4 WRSs.

...only those GTP members who have been placed onto the Official GTP PSN Registry can take part in any future GTP approved race events.

I doubt that all of those 500+ members are doing it for the WRS, they just don't want to be left out of anything beforehand.

 

[Sphinx]

...only those GTP members who have been placed onto the Official GTP PSN Registry can take part in any future GTP approved race events.

I doubt that all of those 500+ members are doing it for the WRS, they just don't want to be left out of anything beforehand.

The WRS is an official "GTP approved race event".


WRS participants for the last 30 weeks:

Weeks 143 to 173:

23
20
16
21
28
28
20
30
21
23
21
22
18
22
21
18
20
16
10
19
13
16
16
17
18
16
19
18
16
24
24

 

[Sjaak]

I reviewed Marooned and Jimmy 10 replays and must come to the conclusion that both their cars hit the barrier.

The excuse of only hitting the curb is not valid because both cars are on the curb.You could mislead by the pictures that the wheels don't touch the wall but when you take a car and check at the point for yourself it is obvious you can't go further.

Also during the run you guys must have felt that you hit something hard,considering the behaviour of the car bounching back.
I checked also in the datalogger and noticed the speed drops at that point.

Seeing the pictures and reports of EDK and 01GTP and my own observations ,the laptimes of raz_10,Jimmy 10 and Marooned will be disqualified and taken out of the results.


Standard Clean OLR Rules:

• 2 wheels on (or vertically in line with) the track at all times
• rumble/ripple strips are part of the track
• no contact with walls or objects, visible or invisible
• if you're not 100% sure that your lap is clean, then consider it dirty
• no hybrids
• no cheating of any kind
• nothing that goes against the spirit of the rules
• save your replay ('Save Ghost Replay' icon)

I also watched you replay, Denur,a nice run and a green flag.

 

[Marooned]

Steven, Jerry, n sjaak

I reviewed Marooned and Jimmy 10 replays and must come to the conclusion that both their cars hit the barrier.

The excuse of only hitting the curb is not valid because both cars are on the curb.You could mislead by the pictures that the wheels don't touch the wall but when you take a car and check at the point for yourself it is obvious you can't go further.

Also during the run you guys must have felt that you hit something hard,considering the behaviour of the car bounching back.
I checked also in the datalogger and noticed the speed drops at that point.

Seeing the pictures and reports of EDK and 01GTP and my own observations ,the laptimes of raz_10,Jimmy 10 and Marooned will be disqualified and taken out of the results.


Standard Clean OLR Rules:

• 2 wheels on (or vertically in line with) the track at all times
• rumble/ripple strips are part of the track
• no contact with walls or objects, visible or invisible
• if you're not 100% sure that your lap is clean, then consider it dirty
• no hybrids
• no cheating of any kind
• nothing that goes against the spirit of the rules
• save your replay ('Save Ghost Replay' icon)

I also watched you replay, Denur,a nice run and a green flag.

I did checked my replay n the car didn't hit the wall and the only invisible wall i could see or feel while driving was the small 10 - 15cm max off a vertical elevation of the track, like a part of a sidewalk n it's a hard surface for 245/40 ZR18 / 265/40 ZR18 stock tyres n will feel like you knocked the wall n will reduce your speed if you approach at high speed, i did checked with the data logger n it shows that the speed dropped from 139 to 135.8 n this is the the front tyre takes from the elevation. I can call my lap clean as per the OLR rule: 2 wheels on (or vertically in line with) the track at all times, the pics taken with different msec. shows what i'm talkin about, the problem is i couldn't get them on my USB niether the maxdrive as photo files, the game gives an error that the USB is not connected so i attached them in max format.

I'm not a pro or a race driver yet but if any one want to check what i'm talkin about i'm open to different opinions....

Steven, Denur i'll give a shot now, hope it holds for 2 hrs without pain

 

[Denur]

The WRS is an official "GTP approved race event".


WRS participants for the last 30 weeks:

Weeks 143 to 173:

23
20
16
21
28
28
20
30
21
23
21
22
18
22
21
18
20
16
10
19
13
16
16
17
18
16
19
18
16
24
24

I stand corrected, and pleased to be. 👍

edit>

I also watched you replay, Denur,a nice run and a green flag.

Thanx Sjaak. 👍

And have a good one Marooned. I hope your hand has healed enough.

 

[Marooned]

And have a good one Marooned. I hope your hand has healed enough.

I started the session 15 mins ago n managed 2 good laps but with a hit to the wall @ tunnel entrance, i'll try some pain killers n keep going

Edit:

Can't go anymore been awake for almost 24hrs i have to recharge n may be go for a 2nd run

 

[Sjaak]

Marooned,above a pic you gaves us.

And below are the pics I made from your car and the one 01GTP took when he parked his car against the wall.

Parked car

Considering the fact you still believe your lap is clean you could asked yourself "are there any doubts in my replay".

Your car is bouncing back on the track which would results in such a serious damage,the car could go to the repair shop.
The large speed drop in the data logger,the pictures and the fact I saw your replay strengths me in my decision.

 

[Marooned]

Thanks sjaak, n i'm still waiting for any other comments may be someone gets my point n it's even ok if i'm DQ. it's just a race

 

[Sphinx]

I started the session 15 mins ago n managed 2 good laps but with a hit to the wall @ tunnel entrance, i'll try some pain killers n keep going

Edit:

Can't go anymore been awake for almost 24hrs i have to recharge n may be go for a 2nd run

Marooned,
I just want to draw your attention to the AUP:

No slang words that promote laziness, ie; “r”, “u”, “plz”, etc. will be tolerated. Decent grammar is expected, including proper usage of capital letters. Repeated violations will be grounds for suspension and/or permanent removal from the forums.

https://www.gtplanet.net/aup/

I like to think that I'm one the more lenient mods, but every now and then I have to do what's expected of me. I see that you use 'n' to substitute the word 'and'. This makes your posts difficult to read, even for this poor Englishman. Can you therefore revert back to the age old method of 'and' please.

Thanks.

 

[Sjaak]

Ti'm still waiting for any other comments may be someone gets my point

So how many people do you expect to invest serious time in reviewing your lap?

3,5 or 10 opinions?

3 cars ,same condition,4 opinions already.

Bigracer,EDK,01GTP and mine.

for me the case is closed.

 

[Jimmy 10]

I reviewed Marooned and Jimmy 10 replays and must come to the conclusion that both their cars hit the barrier.

The excuse of only hitting the curb is not valid because both cars are on the curb.You could mislead by the pictures that the wheels don't touch the wall but when you take a car and check at the point for yourself it is obvious you can't go further.

Also during the run you guys must have felt that you hit something hard,considering the behaviour of the car bounching back.
I checked also in the datalogger and noticed the speed drops at that point.

Seeing the pictures and reports of EDK and 01GTP and my own observations ,the laptimes of raz_10,Jimmy 10 and Marooned will be disqualified and taken out of the results.


Here are 2 replays of other laps. 1 a 122.452 shows the car up on the curb at the now famous left hand invisiwall similar to my submitted lap and the data logger shows a drop of 1 mph. The other is a 122.510 and goes no where near any walls at any point of the lap. I did hit that wall many times on many laps and as i use a g25 on full strength i know what it feels like.

" Also during the run you guys must have felt that you hit something hard,considering the behaviour of the car bounching back."

"when you take a car and check at the point for yourself it is obvious you can't go further." Obvious ??? I would never have thought to do this.

If I felt something I wouldnt have submitted the time. I admitted fault by taking what I clearly saw as a gap between the car and barrier as non contact and not checking the data logger. As I said lesson learned and I apologised to the other drivers.
Please do not suggest that I did anything other than make an honest mistake.

 

[Marooned]

Even if no one reviewed my replay any more that wont change a thing you already submitted me as disqualified may be it's a bug in the game which is none off us mistake but that's life and that's racing, Sphinx sorry if i didn't notice the couple of Ns but i just came back from work (imagine 12hrs in front of a PC and keep going back home) if you checked all my previous posts you'll find them clean any way thanks for the notice....

 

[Sphinx]

Sphinx sorry if i didn't notice the couple of Ns

A couple? That's two, correct?

my replay n the car

Jerry, n sjaak

sidewalk n it's a hard

stock tyres n will feel like

wall n will reduce

the data logger n it shows

15 mins ago n managed

killers n keep going

recharge n may be go

n i'm still waiting

n it's even ok

Enough said.

 

[Sjaak]

Please do not suggest that I did anything other than make an honest mistake.

Nobody here in the WRS will say the that the times send in were knowingly dirty.
I look only to the facts and know for certain it were mistakes that won't happen again.

 

[Sphinx]

I've just reviewed the replays that were submitted by raz_10 ,Jimmy 10 and Marooned, and seeing that there is at least one driver still defending his replay I will therefore capture the replays and post the videos here at GTP for all to review and comment on.

 

[01GTP]

I've just reviewed the replays that were submitted by raz_10 ,Jimmy 10 and Marooned, and seeing that there is at least one driver still defending his replay I will therefore capture the replays and post the videos here at GTP for all to review and comment on.

Thats very diplomatic of you. 👍

 

[Jimmy 10]

Leave me out of it. I admitted straight up before anyone else suggested that my lap was dubious. It is a glitch in the game that caught me out and as Ive said twice now - Lesson learned.
Ive apologised to everyone.

 

[EDK]

Guys, I have to tell you that I've been through this before, on both sides, and the lesson I've learned is the one that Erik stated here........

I'll stand by what I've always said, check the data logger, it's your friend.

I had laps with close calls in similar areas of the track to those in question during the week. I checked the logger to see what was happening. I adjusted my driving line to avoid questionable contact. AND, I was faster through that section than I was before because of it. If the data logger shows a spike drop in speed (Anything 0.2 MPH or greater in one click, not a gradual drop due to shifting), the lap is dirty. It's that simple.

Hopefully all current participants are better served for having gone through this, can learn from it, and we can move on. 👍

Who's up for some laps @ El Cap in a Panoz?

EDIT: I checked Kenny's (01GTP's) replay, and he is clean and green. 👍

Here is my replay. (NTSC Format).

 

[Sphinx]

OK, here are the three replays that were submitted by Jimmy 10, raz_10 and Marooned.

This is an unusual step, but seeing that two of the drivers concerned have attempted to defend their submissions I feel it only fair to bare all by supplying viewable replays for all to see and comment on.

I will also be inviting a number of well respected OLR drivers from across all GT boards to give an opinion that will of course be based on many years of OLR experience.

Sorry about the crappy quality.

Jimmy 10 @ 0'38 sec


raz_10 @ 0'38 sec


Marooned @ 0'38 sec


Discuss...

 

[Marooned]

Jerry, thanks a lot for your effort mate, I really appreciate it, if all the professionals see my lap unclean it's ok, I do understand the OLR rules, and by the way if I thought for a second that my lap wasn't clean I wouldn't have submitted the time, what I want to say, I follow the OLR rules, I play it clean, but I don't like the part off 2 wheels on the track, this means that I'm allowed to have the other 2 on grass or like this situation we're having here 2 wheels on (or vertically in line with) the track at all times, if any one tried these 2 on a license test you'll pass with the vertical one but the test will fail with the other, the 2 wheels on grass, all over the weeks I participated in I made sure to keep my 4 wheels on the track or at least 2 on the track and the other 2 on the curbs not on the grass as I'm convinced it's the right thing for race driver to do

Again Jerry, I thank you for your effort and all other racers who gave the time to check this matter....thank you all and wish you best of luck in the coming weeks.

 

[arora]

I do understand the OLR rules, and by the way if I thought for a second that my lap wasn't clean I wouldn't have submitted the time

I'm sorry Marooned, I must say I don't think you understand the rules, if you did you would never have sub'd a lap with a wall hit.

Everyone makes mistakes and are intitled to second chances but this is looking very poor for the WRS. Thanks a ton for Jerry and Sjaak keeping things on the up and up.

 

[Mr P]

I'm willing to give my opinion for sure ... those 3 replays would never have been submitted by anyone who fully understood the contact rules of OLR .. to even consider them passable is laughable with those blatant wallops lots of people have situations were they have to bin the odd replay because they can not be certain of contact and it's just to close to call .. those identical impacts in the above replays are so obvious from chase view that it shocks me anyone could seriously consider them and further it to a frame by frame check?
It's easy to say you can see no wall contact in photo mode but take that kerb out of the equasion and it would be a different story .. the car would be full in the barrier! The kerb is in play but not to slam into it sideways and bounce off it 👎

Best thing you guys could do now is scrutinize the rules at the top of each WRS event for the next few races and note all your boundaries from now on! nobody will run you out of town for a DQ at the WRS because these things happen and everyone deserves a 2nd chance, but get a better idea for future events on the way it's played here as you can and will be DQ'ed with a microscope enhanced image in competative OLR as it has been through the years of OLR Gran Turismo! We could all play the game the other way flaunting the no car damage scenario to optimize exit speed but it's better fun to find the limit similar to the way you would in a real car and find the fastest cleanest route

The best way around this is to take your DQ's and come back with some better quality driving in the coming weeks and this will be blown over before you know it 👍

Not a rant just my views
Cheers
Ron.

 

[Jump_Ace]

nobody will run you out of town for a DQ at the WRS because these things happen and everyone deserves a 2nd chance

I've been DQ'd twice in the WRS I think, haha. Once for submitting the wrong replay (overwrote the clean one) and another my buddy Kyle (KLR142) found cause I didn't look it over as I should have (went onto the grass before T2 at Cap'). It happens indeed, just make cleanliness a priority over a few tenths 👍

Jerome