GT4 WRS Week 30 results

[SimRaceDriver]

Yeah, actually,
SimRaceDriver,
I believe it is the right thing to do. 👍

If I was WRS (the mean old bastard I was ) I would have you DQ'd just because of the circumstances.

Just out of curiousity, what section of the WRS rules would you have used to honor the DQ by chance? (Just asking is all as there is no indicating factor as to what has priority....T-Times submitted or the replay itself?)

EDIT I guess under further review, if one submits a time and then can't back it up, that would be grounds for a DQ, regardless if the time in the replay is still faster then the 2nd place drivers time, who themselves would then be given the win..

I suppose you lost your whole card too then huh?
That's gonna suck if it was personal data (which is what I use).

The only thing that was really lost were my 'replays' that I've saved for the other events I'm running in like the NRS (Nurburgring Race Series) and ESES (Earth's Super Endurance Series)...but I guess I can always go back and re-do those events as they're not over yet!...

What can one do but learn from their mistakes and how 'not to do it again'..

 

[Blake]

6th, I’m pretty happy with that. On to next week!

Blake

 

[Electric.......]

Well if I get that 1st place,that will be a win that I won't like at all,because I like to win something using my own effort,and not luck.

 

[holl01]

heres my replay, congrats to the other division winners 👍

 

[Dr_Watson]

was terrified i was going to get nicked at the line when my last session on sunday came up empty.
but... Woo hoo! First division win! =]
looks like we split at the ring this week mr. fast food.

Replay attached:

 

[Tedehur]

Finding the good replay and transferring it safely on the USB stick is not an easy thing, and I guess that accounts for the few number of replays that are posted every week.

Here is how my evening looked like :

1. shockwaveracing :
   you were the first one to provide a replay while not requested 👍 ; but your replay shows a white FPV at Suzuka 👎
   
2. Drift260Z :
   your time looks great but you PMed it almost 7 hours after deadline. I added it at the bottom of div 2 and requested a replay because it would have deserved a division win if it had been posted on schedule so everybody we'll be expecting to watch your lap.
   
3. SimRaceDriver :
   your situation is different but it leads to the same result. I'm the one who's supposed to make sure that the rules are respected over here, so you'll undestand that I can't decently keep your name on top of div 3.
   As you noticed, being unable to provide a replay for the lap you have submitted is enough for being disqualified.
   However, if you post that replay of your second best lap, and it is verified and clean, your fellow racers might request that you are not disqualified. Since I'm rather new as the mod here I think I will not resist to that pressure and I might put your name back on top of div 3.

 

[Kent]

As promised.

This isn't as much for someone elses learning as it is for sticking to an ethical code I try to hold up... What kind of person would I be if I asked you all to do what I would not?

👍

later.

and SimRaceDriver,
What's up man?
Are my 54 weeks of WRS Admin experience not enough for you?
None the less, I did say "if I was" and not, this is how it is.

Guess you didn't like hearing my take on the subject.
Sorry if I made you mad.

I was just going with the assumed rule that a player will actually submit the lap listed in the results.
(The deadline rules too but I was flexible with those if the results hadn't been posted yet)

Anyway, sorry to have rubbed you wrong but that's just how it goes I suppose.

 

[Dr_Watson]

(Seems that the device actually 'cuts' and 'pastes' replays from the mem. card to the USB drive itself...and not 'copy' and 'paste')

If you have the AR Max; just goto the memory manager, select the memcard, and if you use the "copy" button (the one with the file cabinets) it will leave your replay on the mem card, and put a "crunched" .max file on the usb stick.
don't use "Move"; (the + arrows button) or "delete" for any reason.
there have been reports of bugs in the software causing move and delete functions to eat your memory card completely.

oh, and a public service announcement to anyone who is having problems getting the right replays off their card:
1. go into replay theatre and take a look at the icon for the replay you want.
2. reboot the ps2 without a cd, hit browse, then the mem card
3. find the icon from replay theatre, if it was the last thing you saved, it will be the first thing in this list. they are arranged by file date
4. write down the *real* name "GRAN TURISMO 4GhostReplay[17]" for example
5. pop in the max-disc and copy that file onto your usb stick.
6. rename it to something more reasonable as soon as you get to the pc.

Getting a copy of ps2save-builder is also a good idea.
that way you can open up the .max files and see the icon + filename; which will confirm you have the right file.

[/end PSA]

 

[SimRaceDriver]

@Flat_Out..Thanks for your input.

@Kent...First off, I haven't been in the WRS for 54 weeks because I only joined when GT4 came out, which if memory serves me correctly was this year, but then again, I've had a few too many beers at this point in time.. so who knows! LOL!! and second, you gave up the spot of WRS admin shortly after that...so I wasn't under your tenure as WRS admin for more then a few weeks so I'm not sure why you had to say what you did but if there's a hidden meaning there I'm sure it'll come back around like a boomerrang and hit me it the head later tonight after the alcohol's warn off!

Second, you DID NOT make me mad by your post! So, NO HARM! NO FOUL!

My whole issue is really just trying to *clarify* what has PRIORITY...T-Times submitted or the actual REPLAY because in my opinion, who ever came up with the WRS Rules & Regulations probably never took into consideration this type of a circumstance! I understand not being able to backup times submitted via replay but when a replay is submitted (FYI..the replay I initially sent to Flat_Out I assume was the correct one!) and that replay still puts that particular driver at the top of their division...what's the 'official ruling?'...answer that and I'll be as happy as a gay man holding a bag full of peckers...! (FYI..I don't 'switch hit'..I'm as straight as an ARROW! LOL)

But in any case, here's a hypothetical question..

A user goes to submit their times for a given WRS event...and assume for a minute, their T-Times were as follows:

T2: 1'119.xx
T4: 2'40.xx
T6: 3'45.xx
Final: 7'09:xx

But at the time they submitted their results to you via PM, they entered the following:

T2: 1'119:xx
T4: 2'40.xx
T6: 3'45.xx
Final: 7'08.xx


CLEARLY fat-fingering the final time but not realizing it...That driver is then declared 'winner' for that event in their division...
You, being the Mod in charge for that event ask for their replay, which they deliver of course but come to find out, once the replay is over, the final time is NOT displayed as 7'08:xx as they had submitted via PM, but rather the 'real time' of 7'09.xx...as indicate the in the actual replay..

Now, would you instantly DQ'd them...knowing that even with that somewhat inaccurate time submitted via PM, that the actual replay still puts them in 1st...regardless if 2nd, 3rd, or even the 4th place finisher could submit a time of their own, which you know would still not put them in first?

And if the answer is "no", then how is that situation any different then what I'm facing? And as Flat_Out said, it's not like everyone is posting replays left and right and therefore is an automatic expert in using a device such as the Max Drive to be in a position to accurately know WTH they're doing!

Hell, I spent 10 minutes playing w/the MAX drive before I realized I inserted the wrong DISK into the PS2! Plus, when you stop and think that the last time I even touched the damn thing was 6 MONTHS ago, back on wk 6, does't quite make me the 'expert' in all things USB..

For clarification..I'm not trying to be a smarta$$ here, all I'm trying to say is that if Flat_Out goes by the times in the replays, whether he has mine, Electric's or any one elses for that matter, my lap time is still the fastest and therefore, I would 'assume' that pulls priority over what times I PM'd to him, regardless if I lost my original replay or merely 'fat fingered' my times when they were originally submitted...and that the 'RULES' don't clearly indicate what would normally be the 'correct', 'final say' in a situation like *this!*

Since I'm not in a position to start meddling w/my saves again, and risk losing what I do have...I've got two (2) .max (?) saves here in zip format...

www.freewebs.com/raymejr/maxsaves.zip

If any one would like to review them, (1 is definitely a prior time from the ring,and the other file is...of something else!.. ) as indicated by Flat_Out and make your own decision..I'm fine...or if Flat_Out, as the WRS admin wants to give the win to bluerabbit7 seeing as Electric wouldn't want the win unless it was actually out on the race track, that's fine w/me as well!

And to Dr_Watson...thanks for the post! I'll see 'where' and 'how' to get ps2save-builder 👍

Damn!...I can see I've been babbling like babbling brooke, so I'll shut up and go reacquaint myself with the good bottle! hehehe!

EDIT Realized the link to my zip files was bringing me back to this thread..so I'm going to try and save them in this thread..??..

 

[Kent]

Well I'm glad you're not trying to be a smarty.
Also glad you're not offended.

Now to explain this simply...

Your situation is different than what you described.

Your situation depends on two events.
1) Providing a replay for the submitted time.
2) Providing the back-up time before the deadline (and with leniency, before the results are posted).

Now, please correct me because I don't want to assume those events in the wrong way, but it seems you aren't able to provide the replay and your back-up was not submitted before the results.

If that's the case, then the DQ would be based on those two events alone.

Furthermore, this sort of situation has happend before and when I mentioned my time as WRS admin it was meant to touch on that very subject.

I would rather avoid the "fat finger" discussion so this is where I finish.

Hope that cleared things up.
(I also hope my assumptions were correct)

 

[bleurabbit7]

Here is my NTSC replay. I hope it's the right one. I had two different ghost saves so whoever checks it, let me know if it's not the 7:12 time.

 

[TheWizard]

Here is my unasked-for replay

The Wizard.

 

[Drift260Z]

[*]Drift260Z :
your time looks great but you PMed it almost 7 hours after deadline. I added it at the bottom of div 2 and requested a replay because it would have deserved a division win if it had been posted on schedule so everybody we'll be expecting to watch your lap.

so wait, what the ****. I don't get a win!!! I explained why in the pm. I could not make the deadline....I told you why. If I'm not going to be rewarded the win, I don't give a ****. I put my time and soul into getting that lap and if I'm going to be rewarded with a ****ing participation award, I just don't give a ****.




rock. 🤬

 

[shockwaveracing]

Finding the good replay and transferring it safely on the USB stick is not an easy thing, and I guess that accounts for the few number of replays that are posted every week.

Here is how my evening looked like :
[*]shockwaveracing :
you were the first one to provide a replay while not requested 👍 ; but your replay shows a white FPV at Suzuka 👎

apologies for that... uploaded the wrong one... hadn't emptied my max drive of old replays... will replace that straight away... FIXED as of now...

 

[Small_Fryz]

so wait, what the ****. I don't get a win!!! I explained why in the pm. I could not make the deadline....I told you why. If I'm not going to be rewarded the win, I don't give a ****. I put my time and soul into getting that lap and if I'm going to be rewarded with a ****ing participation award, I just don't give a ****.




rock. 🤬

You cant give a replay, you wont get a win anyway.

So really, you even if your time is allowed, you cant provide replays and hence you wont win anyway.

 

[SimRaceDriver]

Well I'm glad you're not trying to be a smarty.
Also glad you're not offended.

Now to explain this simply...

Your situation is different than what you described.

Your situation depends on two events.
1) Providing a replay for the submitted time.
2) Providing the back-up time before the deadline (and with leniency, before the results are posted).

Now, please correct me because I don't want to assume those events in the wrong way, but it seems you aren't able to provide the replay and your back-up was not submitted before the results.

If that's the case, then the DQ would be based on those two events alone.

Furthermore, this sort of situation has happend before and when I mentioned my time as WRS admin it was meant to touch on that very subject.

I would rather avoid the "fat finger" discussion so this is where I finish.

Hope that cleared things up.
(I also hope my assumptions were correct)

I was at work by the time Flat_out posted the results and thus could not send in replay.

When I did get home, the replay I sent to Flat_Out, I assumed was the correct one when I sent it to him...but I will admit I did not 'confirm' that before sending it over...( I guess this is what happens when one is presumptuous) it was only after the fact that I realized it was not and that the correct one was in-fact 'lost' and did PM Flat_out immediately about it!

So, here's the real question I need confirmation with...and w/no disrepect to anyone, would like Flat_Out to answer..

Even though this alternate time which was submitted does not match the times sent in via PM, but is still the fastest time in Div 3...qualify as a DQ'? and if so, is it just merely based on the fact that 'replay time does not match time submitted?'

If so? No problem! I just want to let folks know I'm not trying to get a win by any kind of 'back-door' process..and that I trully lost my replay but can run a time that low, as indicated by a replay already submitted which is only less then a second slower....and with no disrespect to the other Div 3 drivers..is still 2 seconds faster then the other podium finishers.

Thanks for listeing! 👍

 

[Dr_Watson]

inter-drama... gotta love it.

*gets popcorn*

 

[Casio]

I believe the issue has nothing to do with the replay, but that you submitted your time 8 hours late.

I'm sure if you had of submitted before the deadline, and accidently sent the wrong replay, you would of been given notice to send the correct one.

But for all we know, and I'm not saying you did it. In those 8 hours it would have been possible that you ran more laps, which is not fair to everyone else who got their time in on time. If you knew you were at work, you should of submitted before you left, or even the day before.

 

[shockwaveracing]

inter-drama... gotta love it.

*gets popcorn*

*throws maltesers at the screen*

 

[Tedehur]

so wait, what the ****. I don't get a win!!! I explained why in the pm. I could not make the deadline....I told you why. If I'm not going to be rewarded the win, I don't give a ****. I put my time and soul into getting that lap and if I'm going to be rewarded with a ****ing participation award, I just don't give a ****.
rock. 🤬

You can't honestly expect to be considered as the division winner, can you ?
Deadlines were clearly mentioned and you submitted 7 hours too late. That's more than enough to look at the results and submit a time faster than anyone else in the division.
I don't say you did it, I only say you could have done it.

So you have 2 options now :

1. you post a replay of your lap.
   Your time will remain unofficial but you will have other racers' respect.
2. you don't post a replay of you lap.
   Your time will disappear from the record and every racer here will believe that you tried to cheat using a method that even my 7 years old son would have spotted.

 

[jase86]

inter-drama... gotta love it.

*gets popcorn*

LOL! ! !

 

[Small_Fryz]

Even if Drift260z time was sent in on time, he cant post replays so his time would be unofficail anyway.

 

[Tedehur]

...So, here's the real question I need confirmation with...and w/no disrepect to anyone, would like Flat_Out to answer..

Even though this alternate time which was submitted does not match the times sent in via PM, but is still the fastest time in Div 3...qualify as a DQ'? and if so, is it just merely based on the fact that 'replay time does not match time submitted?'

Basically both answers are 'Yes'.
Replays are requested to be verified and make sure that the submitted time was clean. When the replay doesn't match the submitted time, the time can't be verified and therefore results in a DQ.
And the replay time, even if still faster than everybody else's has never been submitted.

It's like a key and a keyhole.
The submitted time is the keyhole, the replay is the key.
You can only open the door when you have the key that fits into the keyhole.
No key, no entrance, obviously.
But if you come with the wrong key, you won't open the door either.
And you cannot expect the keyhole to be replaced by the one your key would fit into !

However, as I mentioned earlier in the thread and by PM, there are extra elements :

• you've raced 15 races here ;
• you won div 3 last time we ran at the Ring (week 6) and provided a replay that was checked by CFM ;

I'm ready to accept your second best time under 3 conditions :

1. you post your second best replay as soon as possible ;
2. it is thoroughly checked (not by me I'm PAL) and perfectly clean ;
3. other racers agree to accept your second time as legal.

If all 3 conditions are gathered by tomorrow (thursday) 9pm GMT, you'll still be our div 3 winner this week. Else, I'll stick to the key+keyhole rule.

And, so that this might not give bad ideas to anyone else, this would be the first, the last and the only time we do that.
Check and double-check your replays in the future : the next time it happens to one of us (I include myself, I also mess a lot with my replays) it'll result in a DQ with no possibility to discuss.

 

[fasj6418]

I was at work by the time Flat_out posted the results and thus could not send in replay.

When I did get home, the replay I sent to Flat_Out, I assumed was the correct one when I sent it to him...but I will admit I did not 'confirm' that before sending it over...( I guess this is what happens when one is presumptuous) it was only after the fact that I realized it was not and that the correct one was in-fact 'lost' and did PM Flat_out immediately about it!

So, here's the real question I need confirmation with...and w/no disrepect to anyone, would like Flat_Out to answer..

Even though this alternate time which was submitted does not match the times sent in via PM, but is still the fastest time in Div 3...qualify as a DQ'? and if so, is it just merely based on the fact that 'replay time does not match time submitted?'

If so? No problem! I just want to let folks know I'm not trying to get a win by any kind of 'back-door' process..and that I trully lost my replay but can run a time that low, as indicated by a replay already submitted which is only less then a second slower....and with no disrespect to the other Div 3 drivers..is still 2 seconds faster then the other podium finishers.

Thanks for listeing! 👍

well, to me (and i believe to many others) you are clearly the winner, you will post a replay faster than second place, that´s what matters. i know rules are rules, but those things can change... i think depends on the situation... if the guy is faster, and has a replay to back off, then you don´t need anyone giving you the status of winner, you know you won, and those who will check the replay know that you won... your case seems to be very different to drift´s case, so, i think you don´t have to worry about your win...

 

[Tedehur]

well, to me (and i believe to many others) you are clearly the winner, you posted a replay faster than second place, that´s what matters. i know rules are rules, but those things can change... i think depends on the situation... if the guy is faster, and has a replay to back off, then you don´t need anyone giving you the status of winner, you know you won, and those who checked the replay know that you won... your case seems to be very different to drift´s case, so, i think you don´t have to worry about your win...

So you support 3rd condition
I understand your point fasj, but you forget the fact that there is a deadline, and towards the rules, this situation is either a failure to provide a replay for the submitted time, or a submission after deadline. In both cases it's not legal.
As I mentioned above, we should all consider this week as a warning because there will be no other exception in the future.

 

[fasj6418]

So you support 3rd condition
I understand your point fasj, but you forget the fact that there is a deadline, and towards the rules, this situation is either a failure to provide a replay for the submitted time, or a submission after deadline. In both cases it's not legal.
As I mentioned above, we should all consider this week as a warning because there will be no other exception in the future.

its funny (well not for you cyril) that we have this 2 situations in your first week...

i read again my post and i think i´m not clear in what i was thinking. point is, if i´m the second place driver in div3, after watching simracedriver´s replay, i wouldn´t "feel" like a winner.

could be unnoficial, but it still faster... for me its like beating guys just because they don´t submit times... just doesn´t feel like you actually beat them...

just my POV, or how i would feel about if i was in this situation... but hopefully we won´t have those problems in the weeks to come

 

[Tedehur]

I totally agree with you on that point.
Electric too : he PMed me immediately after SimRace told us about the replay, to say he doesn't want to win this way. I wouldn't either.

Yet, there are rules and enforcing them sometimes makes you feel like you're an ***hole. (That word is not keyhole)
Dura lex, sed lex

 

[CFM]

Oh boy, sorry Cyril. Great way to start off your first week. Take it easy on him guys. It takes a bit to get everything figured out.


And to Drift260z, there is no way under any circumstance I would have allowed a time submission 7 hours late. If you spent so much time and effort working on your lap I'd think you'd have the foresight to get the lap submitted on time, and if circumstances in your personal life prevented this, to accept that sometimes life doesn't always go as planned. Not go on a whiney rant and make yourself look like a fool in front of everyone.

 

[speedthrill]

great times there, glad i joined in on the last moment, just for honour,

Now up to week 31, up to powersliding countersteering action on a great drift course. 👍

 

[OnlyMe]

When you're too late to submit, you're too late, and you won't be in the results. It's as simple as that. Just gotta bite the bullit.

As I posted earlier in this thread, I forgot to submit as well. By the time I got home, I was 1.5 hours late. Felt pretty bad, but I got over it, no need to make a scene about it. It IS only a game afterall...